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Local Talkback
Talkback is for the residents and businesses in Liphook to voice their views and opinions about local issues and events.


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Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- liz (24th Aug 2007  08:22:52)

I was very shocked to read about the development proposals for Bohunt Manor although I know many people will not be. Apparently the proposals are being put forward by the owners 'not builders or developers' - as if that makes any difference. Also it is 'to meet the needs of the village' - presumably they thought that they would not get away with a proposal just for housing. This mealy mouthed approach is beyond belief. I hope any young people who have given their time to the 'Bohunt Nature Conservancy' do not feel too hoodwinked.

I expect we will see many more such proposals from developers and landowners of greenfield sites as they seek to realise the potential of being just outside the boundaries of the proposed National Park.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Eneida (24th Aug 2007  09:05:48)

I'm not a bit shocked or surprised to read about this development....in fact I've been expecting this for the last two years!!!!

After all it's a prime piece of housing land, in the commuter belt, within 5 minutes walk of a railway station....not rocket science to guess what the eventual intention was from the start.

I suppose they will throw in a school or some other worthy building to sweeten the pill, in the usual way these things are decided.

Eneida

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- jay (24th Aug 2007  09:19:38)

The long-expected battle has started at last! We can expect that the Local authority will take a negative attitude to the proposal - they always take the line of least resistance. The owner will then take it to appeal and we will all go along to make our objections known to the DoE Inspector.
On this occasion it will have no effect whatsoever. Gordon Brown has pledged to build hundreds of thousands of affordable houses in the south of England, and the Inspector will implement Government policy. Prepare for the worst.
At least the shopkeepers in Station Road will be pleased to get so many new customers!

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- liz (24th Aug 2007  09:22:54)

The point being that its not a prime piece of housing land at present whatever its potential, it is a greenfield site. Liphook is surrounded by such land. The initial proposals with, as you say, the school and leisure sweetener are to try to change perceptions. The developers would like to steer the argument towards what gets built or how much development should take place, rather than whether this land should be considered for development in the first place.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- sue (24th Aug 2007  09:26:50)

Liz,

This is absolutely no shock to me in the least - in fact on this very site I have already hinted that development WILL be applied for. Do you not think that perhaps sometimes owners of property/land are themselves developers - waiting for the right moment. This can be applied to a number of developed/awaiting development sites anywhere.

You are right to raise concern about other issues - look outside the box!!

I was horrified to see that an application to build 7 houses in the beautiful back garden of a house on the London Road - where I started my working life in Liphook 10 years ago. Liphook of the future will be nothing like it is today. Good or bad we will have to wait and see.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- sue (24th Aug 2007  09:51:06)

Edeida

It's also not rocket science to see why Liphook, Haslemere, Bordon, Alton are now just on the edge of of the Southdowns boundary either!!. Fight it as hard as you can - but with the transport network we are best suited for development come rain or shine.

Perhaps on the new estate they could build a Petrol Station, now permission has been granted to the Jet. Where on earth are all these extra people expected to go, we will have a queue at Sainsburys back into the square!!. - unless they apply for further development!!!!
Or build a new one on the OSU site?

Sue

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Paddy (24th Aug 2007  11:37:46)

Liz, you are clearly un-informed about the facts of the break-up and disposal of Bohunt Manor Estate some years ago by WWF, although the shoddy journalism evident in the local newspaper has not helped you, of course. There is no 85 acre estate!

For you to insinuate that young people have been “hoodwinked” by the BOHUNT MANOR CONSERVANCY is insulting to them and ignorant of what actually happens here. We have ensured that considerable swaths of private land have been made available to local people to enjoy, to learn about nature conservation and to pick up a few practical skills, all at no cost to participants and through the charitable efforts the Songololo Trust (songololotrust.blogspot.com), all the while improving the wildlife habitat to a point where it may soon be designated as a nature reserve by the County Council.

Perhaps you do not have the time or the inclination to care for the local environment or to contribute personally towards helping local people, young and old? But to try to prevent others from doing so is cynical and short-sighted and I invite you to put your apparent interest in the welfare of young people into action by joining us at the Conservancy – I await your call.

Despite the abundantly clear message in these pages and elsewhere that Liphook has not faired well in terms of the availability of facilities, employment, low cost housing and public services, Liz evidently regards any attempt to address the needs of the people of Liphook as “mealy mouthed”. Presumably her own views on what Liphook needs are wise beyond comprehension, or perhaps she is sitting comfortably in some new housing development about town, perhaps commuting to work outside the area and doesn’t want others spoiling her private little patch, much like a few other vocal contributors to this forum and in the local newspaper? Meanwhile many others in Liphook can only wish for more local jobs, more entertainment and recreational facilities, better school provision and yes, more low cost housing too.

Liz, you can read my personal views in the Talkback thread Liphook after the tunnel? I feel local people are badly excluded from debate about the future of the village. The local community might just benefit from a constructive engagement with any interested parties, to meet the increasing pressures of growth, to ensure, hopefully, that growth is environmentally sustainable and in line with the needs and wishes of local people. Perhaps you would rather chase away potential investors in our village and wish only for more charity shops and backland 'executive housing'?

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- liz (24th Aug 2007  12:03:34)

Touch a raw nerve did I Paddy? Just exactly how big is a 'swathe'. Sorry but your Conservancy doesn't have much credibility with me now. But as you seem to think I have no interest in either conservation or Liphook (even though you haven't the foggiest who I am), you probably won't mind.

P.S. I haven't tried to stop anyone else becoming involved. (Perhaps you think I'm someone alse acting under an alias - its happened before!)


Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Barbara Easton (24th Aug 2007  12:04:44)

I agree about the bad reporting in that article. I hope to have a personal apology printed for next weeks issue. As I was at the meeting, I also asked beforehand on these pages for more local people to attend the meeting. It is no use us not being at the meetings regarding the future of Liphook. I bought up the point that the whole estate was donated to the wwf, with a covenant attatched it should not be split up and sold but used for the wwf headquarters. The previous owners gave it all to them, and the wwf stand to make money now if houses are built there. This question was not reported at all in the newspaper, and I believe it was an important one.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- rob (24th Aug 2007  12:05:51)

Paddy makes some good points. But I think many people may feel that they've been hoodwinked by the way the Bohunt Manor sale has appeared to have evolved. It started off as being very positive (when the story appeared to be that the whole site had been sold to some brothers (or was it cousins?) who were determined to keep it free from development and at least in part for conservation); then less positive (one of the brothers had sold his part for a massive profit; but the other brother seemed a good guy); then even less positive (the good guy had only a very small part of the whole); then even less positive (the bad guy ripped out an old and very visible hedge); now even less positive (the big area is up for grabs to the biggest bidder for the maximum development). Etc, etc.

The good points: Liphook is going to grow, like it or not. At least the owner is asking our local representatives how they would like to see it developed. The big question is whether our local representatives have the oomph to consider the point or whether they are just going to marginalise themselves again by saying "no" until they are overruled by someone with more power.

For example, a thought. Might it not be a good idea to move the infant/junior schools onto the part of the Manor site that abuts Bohunt School? It would enable us to develop (ok we'd need to think about access, etc) a real academic/community centre in the village. It would stop all the traffic problems in The Avenue. Yes, the infant/junior site would probably get built on; but that's not so bad, perhaps? It's at least worth thinking about.

There's a chance perhaps for us to influence things here. We're not going to stop development entirely (and why should we want to?). But we can either get grumpy and inward looking, or get involved. [If you want to see what happens when people sit on their hands, you only have to look at the ludicrous Millennium Hall, built as part of the Sainsbury's development and barely used (apart from by the Scouts and Guides) because there was simply no demand for another ill-equipped, too small, hall in the village.]

I know what I'd like to do this time.

rob.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Chris (24th Aug 2007  12:14:22)

Bohunt Manor was always a prime target as a previous poster has stated. No so-called developer is going to put up dozens of acres of low cost housing without throwing in the same square area of executive homes to make up for the loss of profit. Let's not give up; there's no reason why we cannot fight this and back the parish council who will no doubt fight it too!

Who are the owners who have put this proposal forward? Not IML I hope!

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- liz (24th Aug 2007  12:39:39)

Rob
You do make some good points but some of us are very cynical after being 'invited' to join in the 'consultation' process for the Sainbury's development. Most people were not against the development, just certain elements of it and most saw it as good opportunity for Liphook. Some excellent constructive proposals were put forward - but ignored as Sainsbury's had its own agenda from the start. The 'consultation' appears to have been no more than a PR exercise.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- katy (24th Aug 2007  13:57:05)

I have an idea for Paddy and the Bohunt Estate. Why not build a large reservoir and nature reserve. Paddy can expand his excellent conservation knowledge, the reservoir can provide water for all the extra housing already built and avoid future hosepipe bans and the people of Liphook can enjoy the leisure activities this brings e.g. walking, sailing, wind surfing etc. Local jobs would be created for managing the site.

This would surely fit in with the original wishes of the owners who donated the property to the WWF, enhance the area and provide much needed facilities.

Or maybe this solution would not provide enough money for the current owners?

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- sue (24th Aug 2007  14:03:49)

Paddy

Now is a good time to ask a question - are there still heafty grants provided to plant trees?

I will not offset your attempt to 'do good' for the beautiful grounds within the manor, and create a conservation area, education of our land to youngsters is great - they will need it as it could be the only local habitat for wildlife left here! But is that your only motive? There was talk of opening the grounds to the public (pond area) and having tea rooms etc - still a possibility? But I suppose you must concentrate first on building your eco-friendly new house within the grounds.

ROB

I presume that you will also know that Silent Garden has been earmarked for development too - this I think will be close to the rear of Bohunt School? Please correct me if I am wrong.

Your post makes it sound like a pantomime - probably becuase it is. - Brother, Brother inlaw, cousin whoever the cast could make this run for a long time.

Whats worrying is what Liz says - they argue about what should be built here and not should it be used at all. There are still other sites yet to be built on i.e. the fields on the Headly Road, by the bridge and behind the houses - this would join up with the development off the Avenue.

I am also a cynic - yes we need development and consulation, but the end result will be what they want minus a few houses here and there.

Had an opportunity to purchase a property (NOT the Manor!!) on the Estate, with the knowledge that development would come within then (last year) a time scale of 10-15 years, I placed that at 5-10 years - never thought the move would have been as quick as 10 months!!

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- liz (24th Aug 2007  14:18:06)

Katy...

Excellent idea!!

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Paddy (24th Aug 2007  18:27:14)

Your ideas are certainly interesting Katy!

However I personally would not like to see one of the best examples of the greater tussock sedge wetland habitat in South East England sacrificed for the sake of water sports, especially when the underlying Greensand strata would most likely lead to a reservoir emptying itself however much water we pumped into it – and there is no substantial water flow here anyway.

Sue, perhaps you can tell me about grants for planting trees, as I have never received one nor applied for one. What I have done, and continue to do, is to make our own land available, and to negotiate with neighbouring landowners to make their land available, amounting to some 45 acres so far (for the enlightenment of Liz) for public enjoyment and for promoting nature conservation. Understandably, landowners need to manage public access to their private land so that they are not exposed to excessive insurance premiums, vandalism and so forth, all of which comes at a cost.

Liz, you clearly value your anonymity, and think that others are easily “hoodwinked” into looking after such important ecological habitat as we have right on our doorstep in Liphook. Perhaps you do not consider that Liphook even needs facilities like this. I for one believe that Liphook would be all the poorer without it and I’m sure that 140,000 similar BTCV volunteers in England who are more interested in contributing to the environment would agree with me.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Chris (25th Aug 2007  06:37:24)

The article in the herald quotes the representative of the landowner of the Bohunt Manor Estate as offering Liphook the opportunity to attain leisure facilities, schools and housing. Housing is obviously the main drive with the other things thrown in as a sweetener.

In Liphook we are already privileged to have access to :
2 Golf Couses
2 leisure centers (Forest Meer and Old Thorns)
Easy driving distance to The Taro centre and the Herons
We have one supermarket on our doorstep and 2 more also within easy driving distance.

Liphook has also born a large burden of housing development in recent times with more to be provided at the old hospital site and currently being provided near the Avenue.
Although only a propsal, this will be one too far if it is allowed to go ahead. It will be interesting to see, if the Parish Council says no, just how much objection occurs from the team behind the proposal who obviously seem to think that we will all want what they are proposing.

Before you know it what they want to do for their own gains will be far more important than what is right for the community as a whole.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- liz (28th Aug 2007  09:17:18)

Paddy

Oh dear, once again you are extrapolating way beyond what I actually wrote (which makes me wonder why). This sort of 'If you're not with us you must be against us' attitude is normally what you would expect to find in large corporations.

Firstly I did not say that I thought people were "easily" hoodwinked, I just wondered if some people felt that they might have been. Also you seem to think that my comments suggest that I do not think that Liphook needs 'facilities' such as these wetlands when I should think it is patently clear that the opposite is the case. I certainly do not think that associated developments of schools, housing and leisure facilities, even with an ecological drainage system would do much for conserving this special area.

I'm sure Katy's suggestion was tongue in cheek (although she was right on the nail) ....but remember that the greensand is not homogenous and all you need is a well placed layer of clay.....




Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- sue (28th Aug 2007  14:31:06)

Paddy,

The grant available was for planting trees!. I know this because a friend of mine moved to a converted barn in Devon, and they applied for financial help to plant. As I said - I was not sure if this is still available - but I would have thought being a 'tree' person you would have known about it - if it is still available you missed out!.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Niall (28th Aug 2007  17:27:08)

I think it is fair to say that any development of 85 acres, on the outskirts of a rural village, and given current house building densities would represent a huge new estate, ie many hundreds of buildings. I think this is worth bearing in mind amidst all of the 'spin' about environmental contributions - this is not a new duck pond that is being offered!

What I find particularly grating is the developers - or should I say owners (surely this separation is just a ruse to confuse the matter) - assuming they know what local peoples' needs are. This seems very similar to the King George's Hospital site, where following a poorly advertised local display, there was an assumption that locals were in favour of the development. You only had to attend the public meeting (where public debate had to be stopped half way through, and members of the public were left with walking out as the only means of showing their disdain) how risky these quickly made assumptions can be.

I think we all need to take a look at the vista this development is planned for, and decide whether this is an aspect of Liphook we want to loose. It looks pretty rural and unspoilt to me, and while other (brownfield) sites for development exist I think it would be a great shame to accept concreting over this particular corner of Liphook without a fight.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Paddy (28th Aug 2007  17:42:54)

I take it Liz that you are now retracting your rather un-subtle allegation that "I hope any young people who have given their time to the 'Bohunt Nature Conservancy' do not feel too hoodwinked" …which sounds pretty much to me like you think that young people have been hoodwinked, wouldn’t you say?

I am of course pleased to see that you have changed your mind about the importance of conservation. At last you seem to agree with me about the ecological and social value of the land that the Bohunt MANOR Conservancy manages – thanks for your support. A major point of the Conservancy is to ensure that this special habitat is protected from the negative impacts of land use in neighbouring areas, and with the active support of local people that it remains so.

Sorry Sue for misunderstanding your question “Now is a good time to ask (you) a question - are there still hefty grants provided to plant trees?”

Unsure what trees you were referring to, I thought there was a suggestion in there that you might have thought that the Conservancy has received grants to plant trees? Obviously not.

Please don’t worry that we might have “missed out” on grants, as I’m only too aware how sensitive a few people can be about public funds being used to plant trees on private land - the same has been said about farmers receiving taxpayers’ money to look after their land to benefit wildlife.

However funded, surely the point is that the world and society would be far worse off if we all failed to care for nature in our own neighbourhoods?

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Sue (28th Aug 2007  18:44:01)

Paddy,

I now am confused. You quite rightly want to protect natural wetlands, fauna, flora bla bla bla, and keep the area beautiful, for US to enjoy, BUT wish to have it blighted with many (lots i would think) buildings of what ever kind you could get permission for. Would it not be best for the local 'Beauty' and your conservency to keep it as it is and find other places????


I would like to know what IML think of the proposals, and it would seem very timely that this report reared its head after signing on dotted line.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Paddy (29th Aug 2007  08:28:15)

Deary me Sue, how confused you are indeed (or perhaps just mischievous?).

Just who is it that suggests that I want to “blight” our wetland with buildings? Perhaps you can invite them to reveal their true identity and contact details?

Just who is it that suggests that I seek to get permission for as many buildings of any kind as I can? Perhaps you can invite them to reveal their own interest in propagating such mischief?

If you read my posts here or come to talk with me, you will get an unambiguous, clear message: (1) important ecological habitat such as we have in Liphook should be supported, protected and made available for public enjoyment (bla bla bla) and (2) development anywhere should always be truly sustainable and allow local people to increasingly met their own needs locally and without having to commute to afford a reasonable quality of life.

It is not for me to try to assert my preferences for “what Liphook needs” although I can’t help but notice how many voices here and in the local rag go on and on about how poorly served Liphook is for local jobs, local facilities and affordable local housing - notwithstanding those golf clubs, Old Thorns and Forest Mere and big supermarket etc. that Chris (above) thinks adequately meet all our needs.

A very obvious divide exists between those who want to keep Liphook as it is (a few no doubt nicely holed up in the pleasant ‘new’ development at Canada Way) and those who suffer from inadequate opportunity in jobs, housing or facilities (particularly amongst the young and the key worker groups). This suggests to me a serious lack of willingness to listen to or respect different viewpoints and a lack of process to facilitate dialogue, engagement and building vision.

With such a process, just maybe, a local consensus might evolve over how Liphook should respond to the increasing pressures for growth (Liphook after the tunnel?) - other places have succeeded in evolving such a vision (Taunton, Northstowe, Peterborough). With a strong and well supported vision Liphook will attract the sort of opportunities that benefits all local residents and avoids the ‘vested interest scenario’ that we seem to be stuck in now.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- liz (29th Aug 2007  09:57:01)

Paddy

I would still like to know if any young people who gave their time to the Bohunt Manor Conservancy feel hoodwinked. I was not suggesting there would be anything easy about it. Apparently there was initial huge interest in the conservancy which has since dwindled, I wonder why. I'm sure you are perfectly genuine Paddy, but you must see how the big picture now looks to us. I have not ‘changed my mind’ about conservation as I’m sure you realise.

I read with interest the latest entry on the Bohunt Manor conservancy blog. (From the songololo trust link you gave us) - which I assume was written by you. The writer notes that an August survey found that only 18% of Liphook people (and then helpfully points out that this is less than one in five, in case we in Liphook are a bit thick) would actively contribute to conservation, while the remaining 81% (again we are helped with our maths and told that this is more than four out of five) were either too busy or did not think conservation was important enough to spend time actively contributing. I wonder how many people were asked, I would have thought a good environmentalist would recognise the importance of a representative sample.

The writer says this reflects badly on Liphook and that the conclusions “will affect our future planning at the conservancy”. Interesting.

I find all this very insulting to all the people who have put huge efforts into conservation in the local area over the years. You seem to think that if Liphook residents are not interested in your project then they are not interested in or active in environmental/conservation issues at all. Believe me Liphook people have been very pro-conservation, probably long before you knew where Liphook was on the map.

I would be very interested to find out more about the songololo trust as the blog tells me very little. When/where was it set up and by whom? Who runs the charity now? I would also like to know how much of the planned 45 acres for the conservancy (assuming you can get your neighbours to contribute) were part of the original Bohunt Manor estate purchased from the WWF?




Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- sue (29th Aug 2007  10:09:44)

Paddy,

I am not going to get into patting a ball across a net with you, but I do find it strange that you speak with heart on protecting the natural, which many will fully agree with, but the owners of the Estate (whether you are connected with them or not), which your conservency is within wish to 'offer' land for building development. I do find these strange bedfellows, and to add credibility to your committment of protecting areas of beauty etc, your opposition to this proposal would stand you in good stead.

Liphook of the future is not where I wish to live, so perhaps I should agree with the proposals and then become a NIMBY. The square will become a museum piece with Coffee Houses, Restaurants, Sandwich bars, tourist shop, a few historic pubs (oh, and of course the obligatory Estate Agents!) Buildings of all kinds will be errected and of course the dreaded Retail Park which is the new 'shop fest' of the young will be firmly planted.
This will not happen overnight, but I would like to return here in 10years to see how far its got!

As for holding 'talks' with you - great, at least then you may find that I have convictions which I am not afraid to hold on to rather than your opinion of saying things out of mischief!!

Sue

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Chris (29th Aug 2007  10:31:04)

Paddy, just what is it you feel this 87 acres should be turned into (briefly please)? There are always going to be differing opinions as to what the word leisure refers to; to the proposers who are quoted in the Herald it probably amounts to anything that would turn a vast initial profit which, unfortunately, does not include wetland conservation or habitat preservation. Please do not make the mistake of thinking that these people prize the community's real interests above the ROI and what is in it for them.

And if we are going to put the whole thing to a vote then how about a RHS Wisley style botanical gardens but on a much, much smaller scale; or we could just leave it as is!

Also I'd be very surprised if anyone currently living in Liphook wants Liphook to be turned into the urban sprawl that Peterborough or Taunton have become no matter how well managed those sprawls may be.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- liz (29th Aug 2007  11:21:57)

So Paddy has a vision for Liphook ....... Peterborough!!
Wow. So now we know.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- eneida (29th Aug 2007  11:24:55)

I actually agree with Sue :D and Liz on this.

We seem to get long, rather sanctimonious and IMO patronising, posts from Paddy about the importance of conserving the Liphook wetlands etc. on the one hand and on the other it seems all too clear that he was involved, with others, in purchasing Bohunt Manor with the intention of developing quite a lot of rather lovely, green belt land!!

It does seem that people in Liphook were assumed to be rather 'thick' and easy to hoodwink....

BTW I think Taunton was a VERY poor example to choose....it has probably the worst traffic congestion in the West Country, if not the UK!!! I've experienced it...

Eneida

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- sue (29th Aug 2007  12:32:10)

Liz,

Thanks for the information found on the Trust. I do find it strange that there is no information of who is on the trust. Having checked into 'grants' for trees found the International Tree Foundation, and the Woodland Trust, (charities) quite open about their background and work.

Does this site offer bloggs from anyone? If so perhaps we should post a few comments about Liphook people and protecting habitats that seem not to be there. Perhaps we should show a more realistic side to us.We are interested in protection, but perhaps for reasons known to us, do not fully understand/support this particular trust. Why not donate it to the NT or sell it for a reasonal sum; then, if it is to be kept outside of the Southdowns bounday, the NT will help to preserve it.

The door seems to have been widely left open, for the Trust to change its future.

I am sure the original owners thought that the WWF would have been excellent custodians of the grounds - but even they sold out for huge profit!! (out of interest would this chopping up of the estate be legal).

Sue

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Paddy (29th Aug 2007  13:22:58)

No one has claimed that Liphook shoulod be like Peterborough or Taunton. People in such places have opted to work towards building a consensus on how to make their towns more sustainable and responsive to local needs. Liphook too could build a consensus on where it wants to go but this seems unlikely while the vocal few resort to personal insults and misinformation, as we can all read above.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- liz (29th Aug 2007  14:16:16)

Paddy

If you really knew Liphook you would realise there is a general consensus. Most people have no problem with change so long as it is not mega projects imposed on us and our views are taken into account. You will also find consensus against building housing estates on greenfield sites in areas of outstanding natural beauty. No insults Paddy, just speculation on the only information available - in much the same way as you have quite harshly judged us. We are the ones who should be insulted. I don't think we need your help in guiding Liphook's future, no-one likes being patronised. Thanks.



Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Chris (29th Aug 2007  14:38:42)

...you still haven't stated what YOUR vision for the 80 odd acres is. And if it involves housing or any building just for the sake of it (which is hardly a vision) then you are going to get opposition both vocal and otherwise.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- sue (29th Aug 2007  15:32:07)

Paddy,

Having just scanned the 3 sites (under the Songololo trust), it would appear that the most obvious way to utilise all the land would be to extend your organic farming side and provide facilities that residents here have asked for many times and that is Organic veg and meat!!. There would be a good opportunity to raise funds from a proper farm shop, selling your own and that of other local farmers on our very doorstep. even a PYO section. There could also be a playarea together with your information hut, and picture boards - making this an asset for the whole community and those wishing to visit. You could even make it a place to spend a whole day out, with learning and conservation thrown in. You could once again open the grounds to the public and have schools visiting from all areas.

Leave the building to other areas around.

I do find it very insulting, having read the site on how you view people of Liphook - bearing in mind that those reading it will unfortunately believe you - where is the debate, discussion, listening to others comments on that site - just personal attacks on the majority of this Community.

You talk about sustainability, commuting etc, if you were to provide excellent facilities as mentioned, commuting to other well run farm outlets would be vastly reduced and the extra benefit is that for once in Liphook you could buy decent VEG!!. Employment would also be needed. IMO this could win you more voters than with your present stand on development!.

Sue

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Niall (29th Aug 2007  17:36:18)

Paddy,

You say 'development anywhere should always be truly sustainable and allow local people to increasingly meet their own needs locally and without having to commute to afford a reasonable quality of life' - would you mind telling us who you think you are to be saying where we should and shouldn't live and work?!

While you're at it, and as you haven't replied to Chris' email, perhaps you could tell us how many buildings are in 'your vision' for the Bohunt Manor Estate; 1, 10, 100, 1,000. A simple number will do and will make you position a lot clearer in amongst all you spin about environmentalism.

And lastly, as I'm sure you have realised, exchanging cheap shots by email is not how major developments gain agreement. If you want to push ahead with this proposal you should plan to make yourself and your cohorts available to speak at each of the public/planning meetings, and to be challenged accordingly. I, and I'm sure others, are happy to meet before hand to hear your views.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Paddy (29th Aug 2007  19:48:37)

Nial, try reading the posts here - I replied to a direct question about my personal views and said plainly that I considered that development anywhere should be sustainable and should meet the needs of local people (or "spin" as you call it). I have not expresed a view about any particular development and you are a bit presumptious to infer that I am telling anyone where to live or where to work.

Worse than that, you perpetuate the myth propogated here by others that I intend to develop land in Liphook. Can I be any clearer than say again that I do not have any interest in developing land, do not own development land and have no say in any development land.

Finally, are you, Liz, Chris and Eneida happy to tell the rest of us just who you are, where you live and work and what property you own, as you demand such accountability from me?

Personal attacks on me based on incorrect information is not the same as debating viewpoints (the whole point of a forum surely?). I would prefer to have to respond to the latter only.

[editor - Hi Paddy, I assume that everybody thinks you are Patrick Cox, the brother of the owner of the land that development is being discussed. Is that not the case?]

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Chris (30th Aug 2007  06:27:18)

I'm a Liphook resident and have been for 9 years now. I live in the Hill House Hill area of Liphook. My wife works in Liphook and my son attended Liphook Junior and Bohunt schools. I work in Petersfield.
If you are who the editor has suggested you are, thus confirming our speculative guessing, perhaps you will also confirm that you have not been a resident yourself for one whole year yet!

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Paddy (30th Aug 2007  06:36:06)

Hi editor, I am Patrick Cox but most people call me Paddy, including the several hundred locals, mostly young people who have enjoyed the conservation work I actively promote here in Liphook. I am sorry to discover that your forum is anything but, so good luck and bye.

[editor - it is very hard to reconcile Paddy's comment "Can I be any clearer than say again that I do not have any interest in developing land, do not own development land and have no say in any development land." when he is the brother of the owner of the land. Previous suggestions of people being 'hoodwinked' seem to have a lot more weight now]

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- sue (30th Aug 2007  09:17:36)

It's not just us that they are going to try to 'hoodwink'. It seems to me to be a carefully administered plan to press the right buttons, say the right words, tick the right boxes etc, when going into planning, and appeals. Today, when developers, multi stores, etc want to develop they 'say' all the right things - even do the right things, but always have the real reasons tucked far away from some hapless planning officer - even if it is a gov. one!

Paddy seems to think that we are not interested in conserving what is there at Bohunt - surely we are far more concerned than he realises - after all he is prepared to accept building on part of it - for the opportunity of managing some of it for this own pet projects - (which I will strongly add I fully agree with - the conservation!). But do not accept it as a sweetener for development for the greater good of our community.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- liz (30th Aug 2007  09:23:54)

Paddy

The 'several hundreds' involved in your project is now down to a 'small group' (from your blog). I have lived in Liphook for longer than I care to admit but if I invited the local people round to tidy my garden I would expect to have to give a bit more info. - How much of the land was actually mine, for example.

You have asked everyone to contribute to your charitable efforts for our own good apparently, but won't give any details about it.

There were no personal insults just lots of questions so your rather self righteous hissy fit is unjustified.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Chris (30th Aug 2007  10:09:59)

Whatever Mr Cox's intentions are his mediation and pursuasion skills are sadly languishing at the bottom of the scale of effectiveness.

No doubt the next we hear of this will be in the form of a unilaterally defined planning application for whatever quantity of new houses.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Niall (30th Aug 2007  11:44:22)

Paddy,

For the avoidance of doubt my name is Niall – the only one on this site. We have made our home in Hewshott Lane, Liphook, (and commute) – although you would only need to look at adjacent (planning) posts to see that.

I have read all of the posts here, twice, so I think the presumption is yours, not mine; and I have not attacked you, but rather the views you expressed on this site.

Nor have I made any comment on your environment credentials – my interest, and the plain interest of others, is in a discussion clearly labelled as Bohunt Manor Estate Development. I think we all support environmental initiatives, but not as a masquerade, ie ‘spin’, for development.

As you have not accepted my offer to meet, or to make your intentions clear, I too will sign off this discussion, by saying that I hope that any development that is ever permitted on the Bohunt Manor Estate will not be as shabby and as misleading as your behaviour on this site has been.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Coco (30th Aug 2007  18:52:45)

This all makes for FASCINATING reading! - Everyone has a very valid but sometimes too personal point of view. My own being that developing is GREAT news for land owners and the huge amount of people who need housing...lets get behind these people and say YES! to beautiful and sympathetic developing...

Look around you - there are prime spots all over the place to pop in lovely homes. Life is too short for all the sniping and stuffy comments about not expanding the village. It is going to happen eventually so I say get behind it or just deal with it!

Sit down and think...does it really effect you and how you live your life if a development goes ahead that isn't on your land?!

Good luck with the Bohunt Manor developing - am right behind you...Life is simply TOO SHORT!

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- rob (30th Aug 2007  19:55:18)

Well said, Coco.

I think Paddy has been given an unreasonably hard time on this string - and even the editor seems to have lost something of his usually unimpeachable objectivity! But we should remember that only a small handful of people have actually contributed to the debate, even if some of them claimed to represent the views of "the village" (with quite what mandate wasn't clear, as they certainly hadn't consulted me as far as I'm aware).

There needs to be room for serious debate on these issues, because they are about to hit us whether we like it or not. Shouting at or slandering each other isn't going to get anyone anywhere. I look forward to taking on the issues, more objectively I hope, in other fora.

rob.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Steve Read (30th Aug 2007  22:17:34)

And well said Rob.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Chris (31st Aug 2007  06:45:49)

Reasoned debate with the emphasis on REAL need is important. The issue stems from expansion of the town to meet the demands of our own offspring (affordable housing) vs expansion to meet the needs of the population as a whole. If provision of low cost housing is the priority then free up some of the existing brown field sites BEFORE turning a part of our local heritage into a housing estate.
My stance is that we should protect Liphook from being the answer to another town's (or district's) housing problems.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Eneida (31st Aug 2007  09:15:39)

From my point of view, this debate wasn't about whether we need more 'affordable houses' in Liphook...whatever 'affordable' means!! That's a completely different subject, so please don't confuse the two.

It was about what, some of us, perceive as an underhand way of developers getting planning permission to build on green belt land.

If the owners of Bohunt Manor want to build houses on their land, which IMO was always their intention, why aren't they honest enough to just say so?

Eneida

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- liz (31st Aug 2007  09:27:07)

Rob

I have just read through the thread again and I can't find any examples of shouting (except Coco) or slandering. Personally I was pretty upset to be told by Paddy that I had "no time or inclination to care for the local environment by contributing personally towards helping people young or old" and was "cynical and short sighted" by "stopping others from doing so". Que? Just because I dared to question what the links were between the Bohunt Nature Conservancy and proposals for development on the Bohunt Manor estate.

I apologise for "speaking on behalf of the village" by saying that the majority of people in Liphook would oppose the building of housing estates on greenfield sites in an area of outstanding natural beauty. (Didn't I tell you about my survey?) .... but perhaps Paddy's survey was correct (were you contacted for that by the way? I don't know anyone who was) and 81% of people in Liphook have no time for or interest in conservation.

Just because I personally think it would be a mistake to build on some of the particularly scenic areas that surround our village does not mean I am against any further development. I think Chris's comments were excellent and would be upset if Coco's views of complete disregard for our local heritage were widely held.





Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- sue (31st Aug 2007  10:10:47)

Chris has compacted exactly what has been said here. No one as far as I can tell, is against development for housing etc. of any kind, but why here? Coco pointed out there are many pockets (also expressed by others), some quite large that should be priority spots. Lets use these first. The whole package as projected here is questionable.

Life IS too short, as Coco said, for us all, but that is no excuse to run head first, as quickly as possible for development, that at this point is not worth losing green fields. Once all those options have been utalised and this is the only place left in the area to build essential housing, the proposal could then be reveiwed.


Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- edna (31st Aug 2007  10:42:21)

It is one thing for people to have different views on development in their area. I for one don’t entirely know what this one is all about as I missed the parish meeting. But the Herald reported that a spokesman for the landowner put forward the idea that some land was to be made available and seemed to invite us to start talking about it. I can just about cope with the few self-appointed people above claiming to speak for the people of Liphook and having very strong views against anything changing in Liphook even before we agree on what it is we do need here. As a matter of interest I am not happy that there are no jobs here for my grown up children, never mind that they stand little chance of buying their own homes here, so I will be interested to hear more about anything that improves our own lives.

It is quite another thing for one local resident (I presume) to launch this discussion by a blatant and in my view slanderous innuendo that the conservency at Bohunt Manor has been taking young people for a ride, which I find absolutely disgraceful. She (he?) clearly wants us to view the efforts of people working at the conservency as spin for a development (which her disciples quickly picked up on). I visited the grounds there a few months ago and was made very welcome and was pleased to see just how much those people had improved the place after it had been left to deteriorate for many years. I too would question just what interest such a person might have in looking after the environment.

I read through all the postings here twice and found that Paddy actually never says whether he supports the idea of development here or not. When pressed in such a rude manner by these people, he says that he thinks all development should be environmentally sustainable and must meet the needs of local residents. I perrsonally find that quite reasonable. But this is obviously not good enough for some, so more personal attacks are made on the man and the work he has been supporting there, even outrageously telling him he should flood his private land or give it away for public benefit! Finally, they again allege that Paddy is somehow the one putting forward this proposal although he confirmed that it is nothing to do with him. If I am not mistaken the so called estate was long ago sold off to different landowners and it was one of these that made spoke to the parish meeting? Even our editor can’t resist getting out his big red pen out to spur on his little band of rude people. Shame on all of you. You try to decredit his work improving the environmane and opening it to us to enjoy. Somehow I doubt that any of you have visited them or know anything about their work, never mind done any charitable work yourselves to help the young people of our town - but maybe you have and I'm sure you would take exception to some stranger putting it down without knowing anythiing about it. I would think twice before taking your views seriously, as you come across as motivated only by envy, pomposity and self interest. You certainly don’t speak for me and are a disgrace to Liphook.

[editor - Hi Edna, just to confirm that although Paddy claimed no involvement (his post of the 29th Aug) he is the brother of the current land owner, so one might expect that he would have some say in any development land. This thread was specifically about Bohunt Manor Estate Development and not the very good work of the Songololo Trust, which is not in doubt. What really needed to be clarified by Paddy (if he knows) is exactly how much of the land was available for development and how much would be retained for the Songololo Trust.]

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Barbara Easton (31st Aug 2007  11:28:16)

The previous owners the wwf were given this whole estate. The ongoing sale could be invalid if land is sold off, so that is what the wetlands are for, and also wetlands would not be suitable building land.The whole estate and the sale needs investigating, as the house and estate was given away by two elderly people who have had their good intentions over ridden. Perhaps the Charities commission should get involved? This is not in the local plan for housing I presume it is greenbelt status. I may be wrong. Under the proposals, the wetlands will be the private drainage system for a large housing estate, we will be able to walk over a giant cess pit- how kind! The owners talk as if it is already a fait accompli, but I thought it was green belt land?

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Niall (31st Aug 2007  12:08:39)

Edna, and several others,

You seem to have fallen victim of criticising people for what you believe they have said, rather than what they have. I'd suggest you have a careful reread of what has been written and see whether your comments are really justified. If people were behaving in the manner you suggest I very much doubt they would have made themselves as publically known as they have.

This forum is exactly the type of honest, and yes forthright, debate that was invited by the Bohunt owners - please remember that they propose a major transformation for Liphook, and should expect to have their motives challenged accordingly.

We have seen too often developer's act behind a cloak of anonimity, and when the buidings have gone in it is usually the people who didn't engage that are first to say 'why wasn't something done about this'.

I think it is fair to say all contributors to this forum care about Liphook, (why else would they write in?), and doubtless have different priorities, discussing them (face to face, as offered, or over the unfortunate medium of email at least) is healthy, getting personal about it (IMHO) isn't.

Niall :)

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- liz (31st Aug 2007  12:26:13)

Edna

The lady doth protest too much, methinks....


Liz (or should that be Joe)

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Barbara Easton (31st Aug 2007  12:39:37)

Bohunt Manor Gardens are mentioned frequently in web pages as beautiful gardens to visit who will want to visit through a housing estate?

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Mary Arber (31st Aug 2007  12:49:53)

Dear All,

Why does everyone keep going round and round with this issue - this came up last July (06) and 'curious' gave us an idea then that something would happen with this land.
The land, contrary to what curious was told by wwf was sold in parcels, and I presume that the trust that curious referred to is the same company that have know put their intentions on the table, why is everyone so surprised and shocked by this !!!

If anyone knows any different on this issue - let us know, how much of the land is really being put up for development ? Who is behind Geriwell management ?

These are the questions that need answering - save everyones energy and put the right questions forward - although I must admit some of the 'shouting' going on makes very good reading - unlike some of the local papers.

See the Bohunt manor tree planting from july 06 for the previous discussions.

Mary Arber

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- liz (31st Aug 2007  12:55:27)

Edna

Actually your posting reads remarkably like one of Paddy's - taking the moral high ground and criticising people for their so called rudeness while at the same time launching an aggressive personal attack on other posters. - Particularly me - I'm waiting to be accused of eating small children for breakfast. Well I think that's the only thing that has been left out so far. Pompous? - yes, probably. Self interest? - Well only in the sense that I am interested in how Liphook develops. Envy? - Sorry, I don't quite understand what I am supposed to be jealous of.

Also this rather strange view that if we dare to query any development at Bohunt we in some way against all development. The developers, sorry, landowners wanted discussion - but seemingly only by people who agree with them. We can see how much of a debate these people really want. I find it quite scary.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Barbara Easton (31st Aug 2007  13:56:27)

The WWF sold the estate as a whole, not piecemeal at the end of 2005 it is in their annual report, described as an investment and they gained over 2 million pounds. from the legacy of the previous owners. If houses are built, they will recieve further money from the developers. Beware when leaving to any charities! If you read their financial statements, they are brimming over with money! Obviously their cause is good, but the previous owners would be heartbroken- the intention was that wwf should use it for their headquarters.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- liz (31st Aug 2007  14:42:54)

Mary

I don't think a lot of people were shocked, but I certainly was and felt rather cheated hence my rather outraged start to this thread. I had read about the new owner and his brother with a degree in Enviromental Sciences and a keen interest in conservation. Great, I thought as people were of course concerned when the Manor was put up for sale. I heard that local younsters were getting involved in a conservation trust and I wondered how to find out more. When the trees were cut down at the end of station road I couldn't understand the fuss as I assumed they were just improving the sightlines to the field entrance. Actually it didn't cross my mind that soemone would even conceive of mass development on that site -I couldn't have been more wrong!!

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- sue (31st Aug 2007  15:47:32)

Edna

Thanks for your comments – they are the most personal yet!

There are a number of very strange opinions (but you are entitled to them), but I feel obliged to correct/inform you otherwise.

No one here has slated Paddy’s commitment or credentials on Conservancy, but more on the information (or lack of it) on the Songololo trust site. If people have assumed he is part owner that is probably down to his postings containing the words ‘we’, ‘our’ and ‘us’. For example ‘What I have done, and continue to do is to make OUR own land available etc’. I never believed him to be a landowner, but by blood link and the managing of the Conservancy does have a vested interest. The present owner purchased it from the WWF a couple of years ago, the Songololo trust together with the 3 spin-offs are new too, the wording on the trust is the same as Paddy uses here – obviously a connection. It’s a case of chicken & egg – you decide.

As for flooding the land, it was a comment made, which I thought was what people were invited to do. As for giving away land, that was born out of the comments on the Bohunt Conservancy site about Liphook people not being interested in supporting the trust or indeed in conservation and led to this comment ‘will effect our future planning at the conservancy’, this I read to mean that the future looked grim and rather throwing in the towel (and develop), I suggested the NT (National Trust), and even said that they could sell it (as the NT do purchase things too),

As for the comments of ENVY, what do you mean? That I should like to be in the position of making money out of land and property, well as stated here, we did have the opportunity of purchasing on the outskirts of the estate, with a financial incentive thrown in if/when development was accepted. If that at all inspired me we would have bitten of the hand. Well POMPOSITY, certainly not – what have I got to be self-righteous about, all I am trying to do is what I should have done on a previous development case, and that is to look into and express my views – rather than to stupidly leave it to those who I thought best suited to look behind the words and find the real reasons. By actively joining in with the discussion, perhaps others will find out things that they did not know. Now SELF-INTEREST, if you mean by wishing to keep a beautiful part of English countryside – green belt too, then yes, and if you are truly a conservationist you should too. Now if as suggested by someone else under another subject the additional people will bring more customers to Station Road = more profit then that would indeed be for self-interest and you would find me in total support of this (strange world).

It is a good time to remind you that this subject was initiated by the owners in the local press, and in all honesty do you think they were going to be welcomed with open arms by the entire community, broad smiles and much patting on the back – get real!

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Eneida (31st Aug 2007  16:28:03)

I've re-read the Bohunt Manor tree planting thread which Mary mentioned. I suggest all interested do the same.

The interesting point the poster Curious makes is about the land to the left and right sides of the drive...."the piece to the left was sold to the owners of one of the Links cottages....the piece on the right has been sold for a huge amount in comparison to the left, to a Trust which is based in Liechtenstein and British Virgin Isles".

And according to Curious the Land Registry documents he downloaded show there are 3 different owners, but according to the WWF they sold the whole estate to one....all very curious indeed!!

It appears that the estate was bought by one person and parts immediately sold on....obviously I'm wildly guessing...I don't suppose we'll ever know the full story, since the Trust is registered abroad.

Eneida

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- sue (31st Aug 2007  18:33:23)

Edeida

I too have looked at the link, and because I was not aware of this site then, found it interesting - as basically things are no clearer now than then. Peoples opinions were differing as so too are they now. From what I have been told and know there have been sales of property/land since the new owners purchased the site. Some I believe went rightly to the existing tenants of the staff from the original Manor. As for further details, for the time being will from me at least remain silent!


Sue

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Chris (31st Aug 2007  22:09:29)

Sounds like a bit of speculative land purchase...someone buys a parcel of agricultural land at agricultural prices and then sells it on at a profit, in this case in parts. The buyers then wait for planning permission to be attained and sell on at even vaster profit to a developer. It's happening all over the Green Belt areas.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Mary Arber (1st Sep 2007  10:13:17)

Barbara, I had a look at the land registry - the wwf transferred the land in pieces - so 'curious' was right - it was never sold as one piece - despite the wwf telling him they did - it does make you wonder what the will said when the estate was bequethed to the WWF. From what I have read and heard through the village the people who owned the land previously were very caring people who invested alot of time and money to keep it as a beautiful place for all to enjoy, I wonder what they would think now ?

Are we still aware of when IML are moving in ? As a company who are committed to the village, it may well improve our chances of fighting any development in the future.

Mary


Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Paddy (2nd Sep 2007  09:47:13)

Edna

I resigned from this forum earlier but return this once only, having just been alerted to your post. I am sorry that I don’t recall meeting you personally – we have around 4-6 people visiting every week, many from outside the area who are directed here by the BBC Spring/Autumn-Watch or the British Trust for Conservation Volunteers websites or the Hampshire Wildlife Trust. While I appreciate your understanding, I take exception to some of the personal comments you direct at others here.

The editor claims this discussion topic is about a development proposal and does not impugn upon the BOHUNT MANOR CONSERVANCY. However, the very first posting set the scene by alleging that people are ‘hoodwinked’ by the Conservancy (couched of course in cynical tones) and followed up by several others who allege the Conservancy is ‘spin for development’, even that I myself wish to ‘push through development proposals with my cohorts’ to ‘blight’ the area.

These contributors are responding in part on the basis of false information, no doubt emanating from the local newspaper (e.g. that there is still a 85 acre estate here – there are 7 different landowners plus two tenancies that I am aware of on the former WWF estate; or that we ‘ripped out a hedgerow’ as one contributor neatly reminds us above – if they bothered to look in the records of the council’s Highways department they would discover that this action was a legal requirement placed on others, and nothing to do with us; etc. etc.)

However, some contributors could not resist the opportunity of anonymity to embellish their mistaken understanding of facts with insults directed at me personally, my professional creditability and about my intentions (although I have never stated any here other than to promote the work of the BOHUNT MANOR CONSERVANCY). Unfortunately the editor has chosen not to intervene in these instances of deviation from topic or impropriety, resulting in his own integrity being questioned.

I have admittedly (but reasonably) asked the question of one contributor whether she has any interest in conservation herself as a result of her distasteful innuendos about our work here, but have not made personal attacks on contributors and do not approve of you doing so on my behalf, however justified you may feel. The conduct of this forum will no doubt speak for itself.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Chris (4th Sep 2007  07:15:34)

So there you have it, Mr Cox is on record as refuting the claims/rumours in the Herald article pertaining to the land at Bohunt Manor and its potential use for any kind of "development" for housing, leisure or whatever other spin wording one can conceive of to describe the act of concreting it (or any part of it) over. We must construe any rumours as mis-information and can assume that habitat conservation will continue unabated in his capable hands. Thus, we shall hear no more of any plans for "development" by anyone who has a land ownership interest there.

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- sue (4th Sep 2007  09:51:50)

I refrained from further comment on who owns the land etc - because for this debate it really isn't important. As chris stated earlier, land can be sold, and I would suspect that all those holding parcles would eventually become a whole again.

Paddy has by his own wording and the messages he sends out about sustainable development, working with developers etc endorsed THIS development.

Having spent a few minutes after walking my dog, visited the two new housing sites in Lindford and Bordon, gathered house prices and compared them to the ones we looked at for Passfield Mews. Well no surprise there - Liphook is MUCH higher - even the 'cheap' starter homes. (Not the shared ownership ones as I have not received their info) The conclusion is that no matter what is said about 'affordable' homes - for the majority of local people, on local incomes they would find it very hard to get on the ladder with any so called cheap homes. That is why we have a large number of commuters, and these are the people who are pushing up the prices of homes because they have the income, and unfortunately no matter how much some say as a community we will become sustainable - all the time we have a train line and the A3 NEVER.


Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- Barbara Easton (7th Sep 2007  11:17:01)

I was at the PC meeting and it was a proposal by a firm of planning consultants on behalf of the present owners who will then put the land up for sale as presumably development land. The planning consulants have gone into this in great depth, even asking thames water whether the existing drains could cope with 300 new houses, an old peoples development, a church and a school., as well as the current plans for the IML as an employment site. Obvioulsy the link with the IML owmers are still there! I beleive Mr Cox brother owns IML but has now decamped to the south of france, from where no doubt he will direct the future of the place. This is still greenbelt land. Despite all the scaremongering there are no plans yet by the government to use greenbelt land for housing, so this is greedy speculation..

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- purplecurly (9th Sep 2007  14:56:20)

Just on your point about the train line...

No commuters will very often travel to Liphook on the way home (after 6.30) as there is NO CONNECTION at Haslemere!!!

More and More people I know are now driving to Haslemere to get the train in the morning simply because getting back home to Liphook in the evening is so impossible.

This of course means that there are fewer and fewer users at Liphook and makes is more unlikely that anything will ever be done about the appalling lack of service at key times.

Just wanted to get my moan in.....................

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- rita (14th Sep 2007  15:06:24)

This thread makes for very interesting reading. The following points occur to me:

Firstly Lady Holman and her husband must be turning in their graves if they can see what has happened as a result of their kindness in remembering the WWF in their will. No one who had an affinity with wildlife and conservation could have wished for their estate to be put at risk of being turned into a housing development.

Despite Paddy's passionate defence of the Bohunt Conservancy Trust, very little is known about its work or aims. Come on, Paddy, if you've got time to respond, why don't you tell us exactly what your conservation plans are for the estate and how these stack up with the plans of your brother Brian, who owns the land. It is simply not helpful to inform this debate by hiding behind a smokescreen.

There is a clear conflict between your stated desire to conserve the estate and your brother's desire to recoup his financial investment. Had he bought the house to live in, and offer the land to you in your conservation work, we might be less sceptical about his intentions. However, after only 18 months or so he sold Bohunt Manor to IML, allegedly to live in France - although he has been spotted rather closer to home, in Norfolk.

It is disingenuous of you to assert that your intentions can be mutually exclusive. If your brother is not using the estate as his home and the Trust is not a charity, then the costs of running it must be substantial. Nobody these days would believe that anyone but a philanthropist would buy 80+ acres of land and not intend to develop them. Call me cynical, but I wonder what would happen to the wetlands if the price per acre rocketed following the redesignation of the land for building. Come on Paddy, if you are involving local volunteers in your work and you have nothing to hide, tell us more about your plans. How about presenting them to a meeting of locals on the estate? And why not ask your brother to attend so that he can answer questions about his plans too?

Re: Bohunt Manor Estate Development
- purplecurly (15th Sep 2007  12:02:30)


I am going to start a new thread as this one is getting too long to keep scrolling down to the bottom!

I would be interested to keep this discussion going - it will undoubtedly affect ALL of us.

For one: is there a new access road proposed for this? I am just trying to imagine all the cars queuing up to get over the two mini roundabouts.

It is bad enough as it is now without increasing the traffic flow more. It will be queuing up all the way to Passfield!!!

As I said, please see Bohunt Manor Estate II

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