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Local Talkback
Talkback is for the residents and businesses in Liphook to voice their views and opinions about local issues and events.

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Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Eric Benson (5th Aug 2023 - 16:04:45)

The latest NDP pre-consultation is open, running from 28th July to 22nd September this year (not that you would know it from this week’s Haslemere/Liphook Herald).

Information about it can be found via the B&L PC website at bramshottandliphookndp.uk/formal-consultation.

Hundreds of pages to consider, lots of pretty plans in many colours but on a first skim through no actual plan.

One thing it does not fully consider, to quote from today’s Daily Telegraph, is the question of “Infrastructure before Expansion”…

Anyway, if you care what the great and the good have planned for us to try and spend some time looking at it and respond to the survey.

Regards
Eric

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Joe (5th Aug 2023 - 17:40:09)

Eric if you are referring to the NDP not picking a site in Liphook upon which to build masses of houses I believe it was because the Neighbourhood plan were not given a housing Quota to fulfil. Also one of the developers threatened to take legal action against them if their site was not considered one upon which to build. As the NDP is run by volunteers who have given up masses of their free time to get the plan finished it seems very sad they had to work under those kinds of threats. The easiest way out was not to promote one site above another.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Local (5th Aug 2023 - 18:03:31)

Complete waste of time and money nothing gets done all the suggestions that the liphook community put forward years ago and all the time and effort put in by the original members for nothing.

Everything that liphook wants they say we can’t have so what’s the point. No infrastructure plans still building houses where they shouldn’t no relief roads around the square traffic a nightmare and so it goes on .

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Eric Benson (6th Aug 2023 - 09:43:42)

Joe
The terms of reference for the NDP group state

“The purpose of the Steering Group shall be to work in partnership with Bramshott & Liphook Parish Council to oversee the preparation of a sound Neighbourhood Development Plan (NDP) in conformity with the local planning authorities, East Hampshire District Council and the South Downs National Park Authority and in conformity with national planning legislation. The NDP will promote or improve the social, economic and environmental well-being of the Parish.

The NDP should define the planning policy priorities identified by the community taking into account all representations made during the plan making process and having regard to all relevant existing plans and evidence. The NDP will include or be supported by an appropriate delivery plan setting out, where relevant, the means by which these policy priorities may be implemented.”

I leave it to you to decide whether this latest plan satisfies that task.

Regards
Eric

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Steve (6th Aug 2023 - 12:11:39)

A quick scan suggests that the plan is largely composed of a series of statements of the blooming obvious.
If the steering group and Parish Council aren't prepared to tackle the more contentious issues I respectfully suggest that they find something more useful to do with their time.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- er (6th Aug 2023 - 14:00:52)

Joe, what am I reading, did a developer actually threaten to sue 'the plan' for redress if their site was not included?

I hope we hear officially some statement either way from the plan members, isn't the great 'Neighbourhood Whatever' supposed to make the whole process of new high density UK more open and 'local led'? The cunning plan from big government no doubt, being to overcome voter hostility to 'bricking up' the English countryside by making it seem as if we chose it! Just my opinion, and I'll add we won't benefit by turning southern England into one giant Milton Keynes built by Barratts and Redrow😂

I never got interested in this whole thing as that's all I expected it to ever be. A load of little guys hoping to make a difference and being shar on by bureaucracy, lobbying and legalities beyond their understanding, the classic dark arts of politics in the UK. End result could only ever be one thing, housing, housing, and more housing or government would never have gone for it, would they? They just wanted plausible deniability!

And surely the thousands of worthy volunteers sitting on these (yet another load of...) grand patchwork of village committees can't themselves be sued, we all through our government stand 100% behind them, don't we?

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Joe (6th Aug 2023 - 14:19:10)

The neighbourhood plan sets out policies and priorities which the developers have to follow or planning permissions will not happen, the NDP cannot be expected to have picked a site working under threats of legal action from developers who are annoyed their site was given lower priority than another. They are not equipped to fight high court battles. I read a case where a similar thing happened - the Parish council could not afford to fund the defence against the developer and so the plan was totally abandoned.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Trevor Maroney (6th Aug 2023 - 14:42:24)

Sadly, I have to agree with Eric: there is no plan! On skimming through the documentation, I am sorry to say that I do not know what the village is likely to look like in 10, 15 or 20+ years to make it more sustainable. Or is it the intention of the community to have no further growth in housing - particularly social housing - and infrastructure in the future?

I know that a lot of hard work as gone into preparing this document and it clearly has covered the many planning policies required, although there seems to be far to many negative ones for my liking.

I should remind readers that EHDC does not currently have a five-year housing land supply. Without it our village is very vulnerable to speculative development, ergo previous planning refusals could be overturned on appeal.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Joe (7th Aug 2023 - 12:52:43)

As I have said before on this thread the NDP were unable to pick development sites due to the threat of legal action from a developer.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Bill Der Huis N Feld (7th Aug 2023 - 15:25:23)

Would be interesting to know which so called developer threatened the NDP with a lawsuit!
If someone can post the name then a letter to our MP may
Have some impact to prevent that from happening

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Carl Smith (7th Aug 2023 - 15:44:36)

The swaggering arrogance of these building firms is unbelievable! If they all competed to provide the best infrastructure and quality for the neighbourhood then the best and most popular is worthy of advertising and advancement via the NDP.

As it is they all offer nothing and expect to be considered. It’s time someone on the PC called them out and reported them to whichever government department is responsible for house building.

They need to be made famous!

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Eric Benson (7th Aug 2023 - 18:28:36)

All

FYI

8TH AUGUST, 7.30PM-8.30PM AT THE LIPHOOK MILLENNIUM CENTRE: Attend the NDP’s public meeting to hear the story of the plan and ask the Steering Group questions in an open forum.

Found on the website, something else not found in the Herald...

Regards
Martin

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Joe (7th Aug 2023 - 19:13:23)

As I have said before on this thread the NDP were unable to pick development sites due to the threat of legal action from a developer.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- M (8th Aug 2023 - 08:02:27)

Joe
You've commented a few times.....
"As I have said before on this thread the NDP were unable to pick development sites due to the threat of legal action from a developer.".......
but don't enlighten us to who and how.
Most local resident, who take an interest in future developments in the village, understand there are only a few sites up for development in the village, Chiltley Farm, Penally Farm, Highfield Estate and Bohunt Manor/Westfield Park area.
From your comments are you saying one of those land owners/developers threatened the NDP with legal action, or was it another site?
It's all well and good making your comments but without enlightening everyone with who and how, and with evidence, we'll all have to just take it as hearsay.

As for the NDP I'm afraid I have to agree it's ended up as a toothless cut and paste document which will have no positive affect on the future sustainable development of Bramshott and Liphook.
I believe it all started out with some very proactive members of the steering group but they eventually walked away from what soon appeared to be a sinking project.
The current Steering Group have done their best to actually produce a NDP but it has ended up as a meaningless document which, in my view, isn't worth the paper it's written on and should be rejected at referendum next year.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- joe (8th Aug 2023 - 12:42:50)

I am not going to name names as I could end up being sued myself against a developer with unlimited funds. It happened at one of the NDP steering group meetings and was not recorded probably for the reasons I outlined above.

Think about why the plan has ended up this way then and why would volunteers spend their precious free time just to end up with a set of policies? They wanted to produce a plan to justify all the money spent by the parish council.

The previous poster has it right, the developers try and muscle into most Neighbourhood plans that way. It can work where there are less restrictions, but the Neighbourhood plan people also have 2 planning authorities to deal with, both have different aims and ambitions.

It is also not the case that we do not have a five year land supply in the area. Also as the Plan is run and funded by the Parish Council they would not have been justified spending our money on protracted high court planning battles.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Penny Williamson (8th Aug 2023 - 17:18:54)

Joe I find it very hard to believe even the most hardened developer would issue the kind of threats you suggest. I would add that I don't think "it would stand up in Court" either. I must correct you on your statement that and I quote "It is also not the case that we do not have a five year land supply in the area." East Hampshire do not have a five year housing land supply at this moment in time.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Local (8th Aug 2023 - 17:21:51)

Funny old thing if the Parrish council had backed the bohunt manor development before it was included in the national park land. The boundary would have been set in the correct place. And possibly we would have had a relief road as well. The Parrish councillors at the time were run by people that didn’t listen to the community and look to the future. The bohunt manor action group did so much damage to our village. We would have had all that land for houses and infrastructure instead of possibly the chicken farm which will do so much to further ruin our square. Isn’t time our councils worked for the good of the community not developers.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Editor (8th Aug 2023 - 18:33:41)

This makes an interesting read ...

"Why a legal challenge led to the quashing of a Buckinghamshire neighbourhood plan's housing policies"

planningresource.co.uk/article/1388733/why-legal-challenge-led-quashing-buckinghamshire-neighbourhood-plans-housing-policies

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Joe (8th Aug 2023 - 19:40:45)

Thank you for posting the link this was the exact circumstances about to unfold on the Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood plan, had they progressed to recommend a site. I think it naive to think that the national level developer in question does not know how to disrupt a neighbourhood plan in this way.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Bo Huntlie (9th Aug 2023 - 09:23:53)

If the NDP committee doesn’t make recommendations then who does? The PC? Someone has to decide and recommend the best site and the criteria should be based upon net gain for the community.
The whole point of any plan is to recommend an outcome as well as execute it. What we need is for NDPs to be protected so that they can exercise their given powers to influence outcome. For an NDP to be successful (as a concept put forward by the Tories) they should receive legal immunity from sulking land owners and building companies who just don’t have the vision or business acumen to offer the community the best deal.
So regardless of any fear of legal repercussions I urge our NDP, our PC and all our local politicians, volunteers or otherwise, to grow some and ignore potential threats from any building companies or land owners! Get up there and represent us…we need you and thank you for your help!

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Joe (9th Aug 2023 - 10:57:30)

The previous poster makes some good points, sadly there is no legal immunity for the Parish Council who are ultimately liable. The NDP is also about getting the right type of housing mix for the future and whether the site conforms to what both local planning authorities have to consider a priority in terms of their planning policies - we all know what happens to developers promises ! Do not trust them. Take for example the promised Doctors Surgery at the front of Bohunt , didn’t happen, never likely to happen.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Local (9th Aug 2023 - 13:24:17)

Joe the reason the surgery was not done was because the Parrish council were against the development as said before. If they had backed the development we would have had some considerable infrastructure yes developers are tricky but they can be sorted. And that would have opened up Northcott land to get more infrastructure yes houses as well but houses in the right place. The Parrish council listened to the bohunt action group not the community so we lost out big time.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Craig (9th Aug 2023 - 13:30:10)

Local - not 100% sure that is true.

My understanding was that the land owners were only offering the land to the local surgeries. Not any building.

Planning permission was obtained by the owners and footings dug to prevent that permission from being lost.

Neither of the 2 surgeries had any desire to move from their current locations or the funds for the new build.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Local (9th Aug 2023 - 14:14:04)

Yes Craig correct they couldn’t raise the money from the nhs . But if the development had gone ahead money could have been raised because the community was all for it . Very short sighted by are council if we had only got half of what was on offer it would have been 100% more than we have now. All the other development sites can only cause more misery in the square and the square is the most important part of our village/town a conservation area being devastated. When will our councils learn.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- M (9th Aug 2023 - 15:02:36)

Unfortunately a NDP is the lowest level of planning policy, the Government policies come first, the district policies come second and the NDP Policies (if there is a NDP in place) come third.

Each lower level of policies have to conform with those above and cannot go against any of them eg: Allocating no or a lower level of housing that has already been allocated in plans/policies in higher level plans.

It became obvious the B&LNDP was on a hiding to nothing with the split in public opinion on where the best sites for new housing are, and the fact that the SDNPA want nothing to do with Liphook and say no to everything that is proposed.

The PC would of been better off cancelling the NDP years ago and stopped wasting all the money and volunteers time, especial with the possibility that the plan could be reject at referendum next year.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Penny Williamson (9th Aug 2023 - 17:29:41)

Totally agree with Local's 2 posts and M's. The Bohunt Manor Site had everything going for it except that it was, in my view erroneously, placed within the SDNP.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Eric Benson (10th Aug 2023 - 12:39:40)

Does anyone know what happened at the presentation meeting on Tuesday evening in the Millennium Hall?

Regards
Eric

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Resident (11th Aug 2023 - 08:28:05)

The Neighbour Hood plan - isn't that an oxymoron, as nothing ever happens?!

Just local councils and councillors dreaming up far-fetched ideas that never see the light of day, to keep themselves 'justified'.

And before any councillor says I'm wrong (and feel free to do so), please ask yourself what exactly does it mean when a bog-standard resident admits they have no idea what the councils (parish, local and district) actually do - who has the brand and identity problem, me or you?

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Penny Williamson (11th Aug 2023 - 16:26:19)

Resident No I am not a councillor but in response to your question "bog-standard resident admits they have no idea what the councils (parish, local and district) actually do- who has the brand and identity problem, me or you?" I would say that IMO the bog-standard resident who knows nothing about his/her Parish Council/Councillors has the problem. Complete lack of interest which is fine - we live in a democratic country but the bog-standard resident can hardly complain if she/he is that apathetic/disinterested/too busy, to find out.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Resident (11th Aug 2023 - 16:45:02)

And that's my point Penny - the average person hasn't really got a sense of what councils do - how does it relate to them?

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Penny Williamson (12th Aug 2023 - 09:45:52)

Resident I don't really understand your post. My point was that if people are not interested enough to find out what a Parish Council does it's not the Council's fault - it's the residents. To help you understand my point here's an analogy. A person/persons move into an area and having lived there for example 6 months complain that there is nothing to do and how hard it is to make friends. The simple truth is people have to make the effort to become involved in village life whether it be for pleasure or doing something for the community. Parish Councillors do not receive any remuneration - they give up their time to try to make a difference - so please don't keep knocking them. In my experience those who complain are the people least likely to contribute anything to the community.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Bill Dinspree (12th Aug 2023 - 10:06:53)

So is someone going to tell us who threatened the legal action? They can’t take legal for revealing who they are!
A group of us have already written to Damian Hinds to point him to this thread and to ensure that the government is made aware of this legal threat nonsense.
If more of us turned out for council elections and more people got more involved in local politics then we would be wiser to the antics of businesses that intervene adversely in our lives. I agree with the poster who said we only have ourselves to blame if we lazily and wrongly dismiss local politicians as entirely self serving. Get involved for the sake of your community!

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- joe (12th Aug 2023 - 14:10:45)

The Government planning inspectors are well aware of the tactics used by the large developers. In the case of Bramshott and Liphook NDP they regularly trotted out their tame planning Barrister's legal opinion at the meetings. The house builder involved rhymes with Hedgerow.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Mabel Walker (14th Aug 2023 - 16:27:54)

Oh, wait a minute, got it…They are currently concreting over a bit of green space with a place name that I shouldn’t mention in case it properly gives them away. It rhymes with Papal Gawk.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Kevin Wyeth (20th Aug 2023 - 17:00:32)

Please capture all your comments re the latest NDP and send them to the Committee via the website.

600+ houses are planned for Liphook. There will be a public referendum, (2024) where we can all vote to reject this version of the plan until the Parish Council actually reflect what the community wants. We can’t stop 600+ houses BUT we can say where they should go. Distributing them around the village is crazy. They should go behind Bohunt school, with a purpose built infrastructure and close to the heart of the village and railway station, shops, doctors etc.

There are 8,500 people in Liphook with only 3 Councillors wanting to stop any building behind Bohunt. Start writing to the NDP Committee.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- joe (21st Aug 2023 - 09:39:43)

kevin is spreading false information as scaremongering tactics. There are not 600 houses planned for Liphook. Several developers came forward with sites big enough, but EHDC in their last uncompleted local plan had only looked at a figure of 120 houses over the next 20
years. It is just scaremongering to say there would be 600. Do not fall for it.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Trevor (21st Aug 2023 - 17:11:30)

Kevin makes some perfectly valid points. As highlighted in the Bramshott and Liphook Parish Plan 8 years ago, the village needs more sports facilities, particularly football pitches to cater for the growing demand for women and girls teams. We also need more affordable housing - principally social housing (for both rent and to buy) - within easy walking distance of the existing shopping centres. Bohunt land certainly meets that remit.

The previously approved new medical centre, preferably with an NHS dental practice attached would certainly enhance our facilities and make the village more sustainable. A back road to Bohunt Academy would also enhance traffic flows in The Square. I could go on.

As I said previously, the NDP regrettably does not contain a plan for a sustainable future, and without the district having a 5-year housing land supply we are in danger of having housing delivered at the whim of both EHDC and developers.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- M (21st Aug 2023 - 17:20:22)

Actually Kevin does have some truth in his comment Joe.
You are correct EHDC ,in their first draft of the new local plan, did allocate some sites in Liphook and they added up to about 150 homes (Chiltley Farm and Headley Road) but that draft has now been withdrawn and EHDC are writing a second one.
This second draft is very likely to include more housing allocation as EHDC has been given a higher number by the Government to fulfill. Add the fact that there is very little Brownfield land available in EHDC and that Bordon residents have voted in many Whitehill and Bordon Community Party Counfillors who, possibly rightly, are arguing that B&W has has enough houses and not enough facilities so no more buiding, and you will see that areas like Alton, Horndean and Liphook are going to have to find sites for many more homes.
Liphook also has the other disadvantage of the SDNPA who dont want any development in their area of the village, even though in many peoples view it would be the most sensible and sustainable area to build. The SDNPA are however reviewing their local plan so if they find they need to find room for more housing then theres a ready made 600+ home site on the edge of the park ready and waiting.
Now 600+ homes in the SDNP area of Liphook and possibly 400+ homes in the EHDC area of Liphook a possibilty in the near future you can see why a well thought out, sustainable and community focussed NDP is what we need. Is that what the B&LNDP draft plan is? Personally from what I've read, no it isn’t!
Anyone who takes an interest in the local area and development is fully aware that EHDC no longer have a 5 year housing land supply and its currently open market for developers to push forward any unsuitable site in the hope that EHDC won't be able to refuse it. Add all these things up and it makes dire reading fir the future of Liphook and all we love about it.
Scare mongering....possibly......telling the truth.....I belive he us.
Personally I think Kevin has a very valid point and we should all think hard about what this NDP should actually be doing for our community.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Louise (21st Aug 2023 - 17:30:14)

The NDP steering group is holding a further drop in at LMC on 22nd August 7.30. Please come along to listen to the discussion and ask questions.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Eric Benson (22nd Aug 2023 - 16:50:19)

In reply to Louise (Bevan) - on the question of a drop-in meeting tonight and at other times (a bit more notice might be useful…), could she please explain why the NDP policies are hidden within the lengthy draft plan and not readily accessible as a single document on the NDP website? Further, that they are currently shown black on green is not so clever for anyone with a degree of colour blindness.

Perhaps the NDP group might deal with the elephant in the room – the plan’s failure to look at the parish as a whole and not to consider the ideal place for new housing, sports facilities and a new, enlarged surgery/health hub for the village i.e. in the Bohunt Manor triangle. After all, as Trevor Maroney has said, there was a planning consent for that project before the SDNP came into being – see EHDC planning reference 39366/010 for part of the story. It seemed to tick all the boxes in terms of access to local facilities and provided a means of relieving traffic passing north-south through the village.

The SDNP having now been formed, how is that they have the last word in something that affects the lives of so many people (but, obviously, not the SDNP since Liphook is not really in the Park). Both BLPC and EHDC need to 'engage in dialogue' with the SDNP (so much better to TALK face to face) and direct them to the feelings and opinions of the whole of Liphook which are that, if development has to take place (and why does it?), it must be on the Bohunt land for all the reasons set out. The people of Liphook have to live with these wild and woolly plans and their opinions as articulated so clearly on Talkback must be taken seriously.

Regards
Eric

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Joe (23rd Aug 2023 - 08:57:24)

If anybody went to this public meeting last night could they report back on here please? I am sure Eric that over the many years the NDP has been in preparation there have been face to face meeting with both planning authorities. I am sure also that the NDP are aware of the housing numbers for Liphook, which I presume is why they see no reason to back any development for 600 houses.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- B (29th Aug 2023 - 13:16:16)

Interesting thread….. a few comments intended to help the discussion.

There are some important aspects of Neighbourhood Plan rules that come into play when a plan is made that does not include any housing allocations at all, as is the proposal here.

Firstly, such a plan offers no protection from speculative planning applications when EHDC does not have a 5 year housing land supply (a NP with housing allocations gains protection unless EHDC has less than a 3 year supply which is much less likely) - so with a plan like this one it’s much more likely we end up with uncontrolled development decided by the Council or a Government planning inspector over time.

Secondly, if a full NP is created that includes housing allocations the Parish receive 25% of all local housing schemes financial contributions which are very significant. A plan like this one means the Parish share is cut to 15%. So choosing to have no housing allocations at all means we lose the right to control large amounts of funding for infrastructure and village projects. Madness if we get the housing dumped on us anyway…….

Personally, I am supportive of the right housing with the right infrastructure for the village. We are living through a housing crisis which is terrible for young people and young families particularly, but also those who need affordable homes. I believe the NP should take control over where our new homes will be located, how they should be built and the infrastructure that should accompany these schemes.

I find it strange that neither the Parish or NP Committee have ever really a set out a clear presentation on all options for housing and infrastructure in the village and then conducted a proper poll of where villagers feel are the most appropriate places to build. That could include a “thanks - but no more housing option”. A least then we would really know how the village felt about growth and investment. In truth villages only get good infrastructure when they accept new housing.

Final point - there is a suggestion in this thread that housing allocations have not been made because a developer threatened legal action if their site was not allocated. Sounds very far fetched to me. Certainly, there is a legal process that must be followed and developers can challenge a NP where the set process is not followed - but then just follow the process. They cannot argue with the decisions made where the process is followed. There are literally hundreds of NP’s all over the country that have managed to work though this system that is designed to empower local communities to make decisions about themselves. Liphook seems to be being denied the use of that power and we can do much better than this. Our NP has been in the making since 2014 or 2015 with little to show for the great efforts of those involved. So what is going wrong?

The draft plan reads well but is very sadly ducking the most important questions about the future of the village. Time for a re-think?

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Penny Williamson (29th Aug 2023 - 13:56:12)

Excellent post by B. As the old saying goes "he/she has the right sow by the ear."

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Resident (29th Aug 2023 - 14:23:08)

Agree B and penny . But the community have told our council and EHDC and the NP on many occasions when there have been consultations where housing should be put. But the local council did not back the community and the NB have as said gone around it instead of going with the majority vote and backing the community. If the council and the NB were to come together behind the people that live here and have taken the time to tell them what is wanted then we could fight it all together and perhaps knock some sense into EHDC.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Steve miller (29th Aug 2023 - 17:56:24)

The elephant in the room (field?) here is of course the 2010 decision to bring the South Downs National Park boundary almost into the centre of the village which looks ever more bonkers with each passing year. Until someone grasps this particular nettle, moaning about Ehdc is unlikely to move the debate forward.
In a more sensible world, Ehdc and Sdnp would sit down together and work up a solution but I doubt that the political will exists. Maybe our local MP Damian Hinds could apply some influence with both bodies to at least start some debate. Given the state of the polls he will probably be kicked out at the next election and he might want to leave something positive as his legacy.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Joe (29th Aug 2023 - 18:56:55)

In an ideal world B your plan would work, but unfortunately in neighbourhood plans there is no option to say “ no more development”. The clue is in the name? Neighbourhood DEVELOPMENT plans. They have to follow certain guidelines or they would not be passed at all. And yes, if you look at the link the editor supplied, developers do throw their legal teams at the Parish Councils despite them following all the correct procedures, and the councils do not have the money to defend themselves in court so they always back down from a legal fight. Not surprising really. The boundary has already been taken to judicial review and it was left the way it was originally drawn so we have to live with things how they are.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Steve miller (29th Aug 2023 - 20:01:25)

Joe
I don't recall a judicial review on the subject of the national park boundary. Can you provide a link?

In any event I can see no reason that a sensible compromise should not be achievable. A serious mistake was made when this boundary was established and there is no justification for the village having to live with this error in perpetuity.

Just for the record and before anyone accuses me of being linked to the landowner(s). I would much prefer that the law is changed to allow the local authority to compulsory purchase the land at only a modest premium and then develop it in a way that the local population would consider appropriate. This might even allow the much discussed link between Longmoor Road and Portsmouth Road to be afforded.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Joe (29th Aug 2023 - 22:04:27)

I will try and provide the link via the editor when I find it. The review cost a small fortune before and it would need a very good legal reason to be brought a second time - ie that the first review was not done properly.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Joe (30th Aug 2023 - 09:17:46)

Hi Steve I have got the wording slightly wrong as it was a government enquiry in 2006 which resulted in inclusion in the SDNPA of more areas of the western Weald, after the Park had been estsblished in 2003.

The information is on the WiKipedia page of the history of the SDNPA. It was not a judicial review but this National Enquiry did settle the boundary matter. Unlikely that pressure from a housing developer will re open a boundary review.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Resident (30th Aug 2023 - 10:44:40)

Don’t quite understand why we can’t build in the park. Building goes on in the park all over it just has to be an advantage to the community and that land in question qualifies %100 so why doesn’t our council and EHDC push for it to be developed. N/B should also have it as a top place to develop to back up the community that’s what people want so they should come first.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Jen (30th Aug 2023 - 12:10:00)

We cannot keep on and on building more and more houses, can we? There will be no land left! I would suggest that the elephant in the room is not the boundary of the South Downs National Park but overpopulation!

There are simply too many people. The world population has more or less tripled within two generations and the UK population has nearly doubled. It's not sustainable. What can we do?

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Resident (30th Aug 2023 - 13:34:43)

Yes Jen tell the Government to stop thousands of illegal emigrants coming in for a start. We are going to have more houses in liphook same as everywhere else but we must put them in the right place to benefit our community with the most infrastructure. That’s what the N/B is all about what the people want not what the developers want. We need to stand up to the national park people we have to live here some for many generations the community no best.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Penny Williamson (30th Aug 2023 - 13:37:01)

@ Jen - Culling? Sterilisation? Limiting one child per family as they did in China, except now in China there are not enough young people to work and look after the old. !!!!!!!!

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Joe (30th Aug 2023 - 15:10:13)

Yes building goes on in the park, but it is within the prescribed settlement urban boundaries. For example Midhurst is a settlement totally within the park so they build in the already built up areas of Midhurst - they have no need to build in the countryside around on previously undeveloped land. There is a paper which explains their policy regarding settlement boundaries. Our area of the Park is not within their settlement boundaries. It is in a rural area with few houses already there. If Liphook were totally within the Park it may have been possible but at the time the boundaries were drawn Liphook itself was not considered worthy of inclusion, only the more rural areas such as Weavers Down, Forest Mere Bohunt, iron hill etc.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Jen (30th Aug 2023 - 16:30:19)

I wish I had the answers, Penny, but unfortunately I don't. In order to enforce something like compulsory sterilisation we would need a dictatorship, not a democracy. I can't see the majority ever voting for it.
Culling sounds a bit drastic to say the least - and I'm sure you didn't mean it to be taken seriously.

But, honestly, what are our options for the future? There will surely have to be some sort of enforced limit on human breeding, somehow?

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- We Can Do It! (30th Aug 2023 - 16:51:26)

Yes China did strictly limit children to one per couple and most forward looking western trendies, although initially perhaps unsettled at the authoritarian state control of family life, praised them for keeping down what would otherwise have been a huge population burst, but the fact is they did it in order, not to save the the natural world, but prevent large scale unemployment and internal instability and China is today paying the price, because in a double whammy, unlike us they won't allow large scale immigration and this will prevent them continuing to grow, already they are slowing down and will be overtaken by others like we were since the disasters of WWI and WWII.

This is why the west, particularly the US and its version of the true capitalist system (as opposed to China or Russia's semi capitalist/ communist authoritarian system) is always going to be richer, more powerful and dare I say it, privileged, in the UK we no longer have too many children either, certainly we can't replenish let alone grow, but we did it by permissiveness and emancipation and as a result we were able to adapt and change from both within and without to meet our needs, every adult has been able to work full time and this gave us a short-term boost in itself, as we need more and more workers to make up for this richer lifestyle with less traditional families, and cheaper labour to compete with the lowest bidder, we can loosen immigration control like the US do with Mexico etc, then they can shut it up tight again like they're doing now which has proved very successful, our own population would be tiny and extremely old without immigration which would be good for the planet but not so good for us and we would be seeing the end of our remaining global influence, so lets build them houses and be grateful whilst being a bit tougher on who comes, as they say to illegal immigrants in Saudi Arabia, 'if we need you we'll invite you and you'll be welcome, if not there's the desert, walk back that way'.

Liphook and the surrounding area is just one smallish/biggish town but we can play our part, so let's build over that National Park for growth as they say, our country needs us, build and they will come, every step towards progress requires sacrifice, 'without continual growth and progress words such as achievement and success have no meaning' Benjamin Franklin, progress belongs to all of us, 'delay is the enemy of progress' we are all in it together..I can keep doing this if you want more cliches!

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Penny Williamson (31st Aug 2023 - 09:47:02)

@ We Can Do It. I hope that by your remark "let's build on the National Park" you mean Bohunt Manor and not what I call the real South Downs National Park.- I think most people will know what I mean by the "real" National Park - rolling hills, hangers and wonderful, wonderful open countryside.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Joe (31st Aug 2023 - 11:26:38)

Penny I think the poster was not being serious just trying to make the point about housing extra people. Whether or not you consider Bohunt land in the Park is not really going to change the boundary and the fact that the urban settlement of Liphook is not in the Park, so the planning authority responsible for the countryside of the National Park does not give the part of Liphook they are not responsible for, much thought. It is something people will have to live with. The National park boundaries have been there for 20 years now.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Old local (31st Aug 2023 - 11:42:09)

It all boils down to the best place to build houses for the benefit of the liphook people ie the community. As the land in question is only just inside the park and is not accessible to the public just private farm land and can benefit liphook infrastructure ie relief road around the square and perhaps more facilities. It must be the right place to build any housing that we are allocated. If housing is built anywhere else around liphook it will make the traffic problem much worse so should not be entertained until a proper ring road system is in place.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Resident (31st Aug 2023 - 12:56:51)

Joe stop trying to make out the boundaries are set in stone all things can be challenged the government are looking at the problem that some boundaries have cased a massive problem with communities being split as in liphook. The boundary was set by people that had no thought of the consequences in latter years there is no logical reason not to review it . The laughable side to it it’s not park land that people can access and use it’s not an asset to liphook which it could be .

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Realist (31st Aug 2023 - 17:18:17)

Let's be clear, National Parks don't mean 'common land' they signify areas set aside by government to be protected for their natural value to this country. The areas include predominately privately owned farmland, some towns, villages and some public rights of way, but it has nothing to do with being a 'park' in the common sense. It's way bigger than Liphook or our housing problems, it's set in stone and would take Parliament to change it, not sure it's their priority what with the war in Ukraine and handing out knighthoods!

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Joe (31st Aug 2023 - 17:28:25)

Resident - despite what you think there are no moves to alter the National Park boundaries. Local conservative politicians may have that old chestnut to talk to voters about but they have been trotting that out for the last ten years at least. Post back on here if there is something substantial other than some developers wish list. The government has more important matters to consider.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Steve miller (31st Aug 2023 - 18:00:12)

Well perhaps but, at least in my opinion, the community would have a better chance of reopening the sdnp boundary issue than preventing continued growth of the village.

Unless the clear mistake made when the boundaries were established is corrected, or the park authorities can be persuaded to address the matter in their own development policies, Liphook faces becoming increasingly lopsided over the next couple of decades as the pressure to build new housing is likely to increase rather than diminish.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Local (31st Aug 2023 - 18:03:12)

Totally agree with old local. If we have an allocation of housing it must be put where we can have the most benefit not rocket science if that means building in the national park so we must fight to do so . At this time with no relief roads around liphook it’s quite obvious building on the station side of the square is quite ridiculous. As for National Parks they do a wonderful job all over the country but mistakes have been made that’s why it was brought up in parliament and liphook was mentioned as an example everyone can’t be right all the time so in my opinion the local National Parks people should consult the local community and see if something could be thrashed out because we live here some for generations and this major problem is not going away.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- M (1st Sep 2023 - 17:29:39)

Unfortunately, and as others have said, Liphooks problem is that the South Downs National Park boundary has been drawn to close to the centre of the village.
No village should be put in the situation where it has two separate planning authorities with two different requirements with regard to housing allocation. The whole Parish of Bramshott and Liphook should of been fully inside or outside of the park. Will that change? unlikely in the next few decades.
So we come back to the original thread, does this draft NDP actually help resolve or influence the future development issues we as a community have?
The more I read it the less I think it even attempts to provide any meaningful policies that developers need to comply with to make Liphook a better place.
The NDPs mission statement says:
"To listen to the community to deliver a Neighbourhood Development Plan to enhance the Parish of Bramshott and Liphook, both now and into the future."
Nowhere in the draft NDP can I see any policy that will achieve that!
So what to do?
I suggest those that are interested complete the NDPs online feedback forms to let them know that this NDP is just not good enough.
9 years in the making and they come up with nothing to improve the place we live in. If they don't improve it I think a resounding NO at referendum will be on the cards!

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Penny Williamson (2nd Sep 2023 - 10:59:50)

Joe I am not suggesting that the boundaries of the SDNP are changed. This would be a mammoth task and probably take years as it would have to go through Parliament. What I am suggesting is that there should be more flexibility by the SDNP planners when it comes to building within the National Park. Just because an area or areas are within the boundaries of the NP it does not mean that no building can take place. I think it little bit of intelligent thinking and action by the SDNP planners is called for. They need to look at the bigger picture.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Realistic er (2nd Sep 2023 - 13:12:23)

Telling the people employed to decide where to plonk concrete in the National Park, that they need to use a bit of intelligent thinking and look at the wider picture is probably not going to help much!

About 100 years ago a handful of visionaries, based in a little place called Haslemere, Surrey, decided to resist the increasing encroachment of development into the countryside. They started the National Trust which bought Hindhead Common and the Devil's punchbowl. They bought outstanding land across the country, creating the first National Parks.

I think their job therefore is not to look at the 'wider picture' at all, isn't that the whole point of putting a 'wrapper' around the National Parks, so that they aren't pressured to plonk huge estates on Britain's last remaining green and pleasant bits, without that who could resist the relentless pressure to concrete and grow, the whole world seems to be in flux, Britain is clearly in the sights and London is full, so here we are needing to put estate after estate in places like Liphook and still people will complain that locals can't afford one and we need more...

It's the job of the SDNP to protect us precisely from the shouts and screams of 'but we need more bypasses and housing estates, Britain needs growth''

So basically they're doing their job, the job of the silent majority who wish to preserve some few bits of old England, where deer and foxes and rabbits and trees and people on horseback get preference over developers.

If we want to expand so badly, let the government or EDHC or the developers build us a bypass, somehow I don't think anyone wants to put their hands in their pockets for Liphook, but they all want houses, the SDNP are doing their job resisting all this massive pressure, it's a slippery slope, today Liphook wants a chunk out of the park for housing and roads, where do you stop when you set a precedent, not going to happen, as Penny says, would need an Act of Parliament, a barrier placed there deliberately to stop precisely these scenarios playing out!

Sorry, we must reassess where or if we want to house the world, being next to a protected area has huge benefits, new housing estates and bypasses not necessarily one of them, maybe this is a reason not to expand Liphook more, just up the road in Bordon we have one of the countries largest 'green' (ha ha) developments, a new city being built before our eyes, minus train station, everyone must drive cars, most of those in power in this country are hypocrites, let's value the few who are fighting the odds for us!

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Joe (2nd Sep 2023 - 14:17:27)

I still keep trying to make the point that the SDNPA only allow large new housing estates in already built up areas. They are responsible for a huge area with a lot of towns Midhurst Petersfield Lewes Chichester, to name but a few. Because the urban centre of Liphook is not within their planning authority they have no authority or remit to develop the urban centre outwards. The latest government consultation on National Parks was that the NPPF was going to be strengthened in favour of protecting the landscapes of the Parks from new development. There is no point expecting the SDNPA to care about whether Liphook expands in a spatial manner when urban Liphook is not their concern. Only if EHDC run out of a land supply for the area completely might they get involved. What is the point of rejecting the plan ? It will not force the SDNPA to build houses? There is no connection.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Local (2nd Sep 2023 - 14:43:20)

We are not asking for much just to see sense it quite obvious that the boundary was not put in the right place as said the Parrish should have been all in or all out not split in two. That’s the big problem, we have got to fulfill our housing quota when it comes again big problem and that’s what the community are up in arms about were to put them there is only one logical place to benefit liphook the land just inside the park someone has said you must not build on that land because it will set a president no it won’t because the park have the last word. All we want is some common sense if they build houses anywhere else then liphook suffers more traffic through the square which is horrendous now so we are asking the national parks to help us to save our heritage conservation square which is in their remit to save our environment. It only takes a little bit of sensitivity in negotiations to help our community. Why should we suffer because someone somewhere makes a decision without consulting the people that it affects not democratic me think’s.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Linda (2nd Sep 2023 - 14:45:40)

To me it is an absolute no-brainer!

Where is the most SUSTAINABLE location for Liphook to expand?
Clue: proximity to railway station, shops, schools etc

Which is the best location to provide community facilities for all us?

I would be interested to hear people's views

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Re (2nd Sep 2023 - 16:09:35)

Just your opinion Joe everything can be challenged as you can see all over the country. It’s down to us the liphook community to perhaps lobby our MP and make a huge fuss about the ruining of our village because of the stupid people from the national parks. We the liphook people are only trying to improve the planning system to protect our community.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Me (2nd Sep 2023 - 18:29:14)

Linda, who is offering us any community facilities in the National Park land? Wasn't it just some land where we could build stuff, but EHDC said they've no allocation for us? We have land all over round here, but it's not for communal facilities because there never is any money for it..


Re why are the National Park people stupid? As said above, they are running a National Park not a development company. It's not up to them to build Britain's houses, it's up to them to run a National Park.

I feel this debate is becoming a little anti National park people, when it's really hard to see how our housebuilding is their problem!

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Re (2nd Sep 2023 - 19:18:31)

Me you still don’t get it we will have to build our allocation of houses sometime it’s were is the best place for our benefit. Nowhere else gives us anything except more traffic through the square the land in question could if handled properly could perhaps go someway to alleviating that problem . So that’s why the majority of liphook would like it to be the number one site for development if it comes to it .The developers who own the land have already said they will put the link road through and also other facilities so if the national park could come and see the problem perhaps a compromise could be made for the good of liphook.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Linda (2nd Sep 2023 - 19:44:55)

Re ...I am confused... what are you talking about?

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Louise (NDP steering group) (2nd Sep 2023 - 19:52:32)

Dear Residents

Bramshott and Liphook NDP Formal Consultation finishes on 22nd September.

Please visit the website to post your comments before this date! We what to hear from as many people as possible.

bramshottandliphookndp.uk/formal-consultation

To support the consultation we have a number of opportunities for informal discussion. We are keen to answer all your questions

- Tuesday 12th September : 7.30 - 9pm at LMC
7.30 - 8.15 NDP steering group meeting
8.15 - 9.00 Open forum Q&A / discussion with steering group

NDP steering group members will also be at the display stand at LMC during the following events

- Saturday 9th Sept: during Liphook Village Market
- Friday 15th Sept: After film screening in afternoon & evening

Further dates to include

- Tuesday 19th Sept: 7-9pm at LMC
Meeting with Developers to discuss opportunities of Bramshott and Liphook NDP policies and design codes for future development in the Parish. Public welcome

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Penny Williamson (2nd Sep 2023 - 20:34:28)

Linda I think that Re is referring to the Bohunt Manor land being the obvious site for development. 53% of East Hampshire is in the National Park ergo 47% is under the auspices of EHDC. East Hampshire do not have their 5 year housing land supply. Do the maths and you will understand the inbalance.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Re (2nd Sep 2023 - 20:36:45)

Linda sorry you are confused perhaps you haven’t lived here long . It goes back a very long time. Bohunt manor and the Northcott land that runs between Portsmouth Road and longmoor road down to the new round about in longmoor road is the land in question. It has been included in the national park against the wishes of the majority of the community. If we have an allocation of housing that’s where the majority of the liphook population would like the housing to go because it would include a road between Portsmouth Road and longmoor road to relieve traffic through the square because if the square is shut for any reason it’s a 10 mile round trip to get from one side of liphook to the other. Traffic is increasing year on year on and it’s got to a point where it’s just ridiculous. So we must put houses where we get the most benefit. Hopefully this might help you.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Joe (2nd Sep 2023 - 21:11:04)

The last allocation for Liphook in the EHDC area was 120. Until EHDC have finished their local plan there is no clue as to what the future allocation figure might be in approx 2 years time. In the last SDNP local plan there was no allocation for the area of Liphook in the Park. They allocated in Liss and Greatham, both totally in the Park.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Joe (3rd Sep 2023 - 08:37:24)

RE you are only assuming the Bohunt land was included against the wishes of the local community. 25 years ago when plans were being drawn up for the boundaries of the national park I remember the landowner putting forward the land for housing and the local community were against building houses there. I also went to a more recent meeting in the Millennium hall after the park was established and the whole hall apart from a few appeared to be still against building. The meeting made the South Today TV news. When the boundaries for the Park were being drawn up the local community would have been consulted. There was no outcry 25 years ago.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Penny Williamson (3rd Sep 2023 - 09:23:19)

Joe as you say no one knows exactly how many houses will be built, but the fact remains that EHDC do not have their 5 year housing land supply. I believe that there are talks between EHDC and SDNP planners regarding building houses on Bohunt Manor.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Re (3rd Sep 2023 - 11:38:45)

Wrong again Joe the meeting at midhurst to set the boundaries was attended by liphook people but their concerns were dismissed with a lot of grumbling but they took no notice the liphook community have not been listening to all the way through. At all the meetings by n/b and the council and EHDC it’s been quite obvious that the majority wanted that land used for the benefit of liphook at one meeting Mr Northcott was asked if bohunt school could have outside classrooms he said no problem there would be open spaces for the public to use for recreational ie picnics etc . The only reason that bohunt was refused permission before the parks were involved was because a FEW people including some on the council formed bohunt action group which has done so much damage to our village.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Joe (3rd Sep 2023 - 12:04:07)

We obviously attended the same meeting but seriously at that point a show of hands was taken and the majority came out against. Yes indeed the school at that point were interested and in fact Bohunt could allow outdoor classrooms now? The school have always been interested in making itself bigger. Penny I am sure that as you seem to “ hear” things such as talks going on - perhaps you may be able to elaborate and turn this into fact not wishful thinking.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- M (3rd Sep 2023 - 13:48:52)

We all have our own opinion on the SDNP boundary and I believe anyone with an ounce of brain can now see it's location around Liphook is ridiculous, but it is unlikely to change so we have to live with it.
EHDC will need to find locations for more housing when they publish their new Draft Local Plan and in all likelihood Liphook will have more than the 150 houses it was allocated in the first draft.
Because of the location of the SDNP boundary all those houses will need to be squeezed into the very few remaining green fields to the south and east of the village, which are the furthest away from the village facilities, schools and A3 and have no opportunity to provide upgraded infrastructure and amenities.
In an ideal world Liphooks allocation of new housing would be sited nearest to village amenities, schools and the A3 to ensure that they didn't exacerbate the issues the village has with traffic congestion at peak times.
Unfortunately this won't happen as the SDNPA and EHDC are two separate planning authorities, with the SDNPA not recognising Liphook as a village in the park and having a remit to primarily NOT build housing in the park, and EHDC having to pick up all the extra housing numbers and find locations within the towns and villages that are outside the park.
Each authority has it's own housing number so any houses built in one part of the village will only fulfil the housing number for that relevant authority.
The only remedy to Liphooks issues was for the SDNPA and EHDC to sit down and agree a bespoke plan for Liphook and allocate housing to the most sustainable location in the village, but either both, or possibly just one of them, don't want to know.
We had an opportunity to force their hands with our very own Neighbourhood Plan. If the NDP had asked for a housing number and allocated the most sustainable sites for housing both EHDC and SDNPA would of had to take note and decided, one way or another, how development in Liphook could move forward.
Unfortunately after 9 years of work the Steering Group appear to have decided "it's too hard" and have settled on the most weak and non descript NDP that could be produced. It in no way gets close to planning for the future development of Liphook and it's surrounding hamlets.
Was this a conscious decision by just one or two members/councillors with their own agenda or was it a unanimous decision taken after much research and investigation? We'll never truly know but that decision has resulted in the NDP we are being shown.
This is the point of discussion on this thread. Does the draft "Neighbourhood Development Plan" in any way plan for the future development of Liphook! The clue is in the name and as far as I'm concern it doesn't.
I suggest all to read it and then comment on here and on the NDP feedback forms. Closing date is 22nd September.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Concerned (3rd Sep 2023 - 13:54:41)

The clarify the matter mentioned in these posts regarding the Bohunt Manor Estate public meeting on 9th July 2013 the link to the BBC South Today news items is shown below.

Bohunt - BBC South Today pt1
Bohunt - BBC South Today pt2

I recall that due to the many local objections to the development of the South Downs National Park the SOS Bohunt Manor Community Action Group was formed.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Joe (3rd Sep 2023 - 14:52:17)

A very good post M very well put and explains planning to people. My only addition is to explain again that a site/s were not chosen due to the legal threat from a developer - so without a site/ site, the facilities, which are paid for by the planned development/s is not in the neighbourhood plan. It is a shame that all the years put into this have not achieved what a plan should be for. Also no allocation of housing numbers were given to the steering group by EHDC. Which does suggest there is a 5 year land supply.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- resident (3rd Sep 2023 - 15:31:13)

Hi Concerned

I am not sure that you are right? I seem to think that the Bohunt planning application for the 100 plus houses had hundreds of letters of support, many, many times those of objection.

Could you check this out please and give us the actual figures of support v those of objection?

FYI I supported the application

Thanks


Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Re (3rd Sep 2023 - 16:22:34)

M you have hit the nail on the head it’s what I have been trying to say for so long. It’s just a mess and liphook will suffer in years to come just because some of other councillors haven’t the guts to stand up and shout for liphook.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- M (3rd Sep 2023 - 17:28:52)

Joe, thanks for the compliment.... something that doesn't happen often on here...lol!
All I'd say is that the NDP could, I believe, of asked for a housing number from EHDC and SDNPA but decided not to.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- resident of 23 years (7th Sep 2023 - 16:20:43)

Response to 'Concerned' (entry 3rd Sept)

I haven't seen any response from you to my posting on 3rd Sept, querying local support for the 100 houses at Bohunt Manor, so I checked the records myself, as far as I could

The support letters for the houses at Bohunt were in excess of 700 (I stopped going through the file at this point

The letters objecting to the development amounted to around 200 plus.

Clearly overwhelming support, but could someone provide the definitive figures

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- resident of many years (7th Sep 2023 - 16:25:48)

....this was the application for 100 houses ten years ago


planningpublicaccess.southdowns.gov.uk

Search reference : SDNP/14/06426/OUT


maybe someone else could go through this and count each letter of support or objection, but it is a huge file and I had to stop.

AR

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Joe (7th Sep 2023 - 17:26:24)

The current position is 600 houses not 100 that is a huge difference. The housing numbers that Liphook will be allocated in the updated SDNPA plan for that area are likely to be be less than 3 as there was none required in their last plan. Why build houses when they are not required?

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- paul (7th Sep 2023 - 18:13:30)

Hi,
Typical English Nimbyism, people deserve to live in their local area affordably.
There has always been a greater housing need in England, for all to share.
Some Liphook resident owners do not support people in need or right.
.
There is plenty of Green and Brown field sites , not to mention development that does effect habitat, or communities.

Build new towns and villages, for our children, and future generations.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Joe (7th Sep 2023 - 20:14:05)

paul the developers who want to build on Bohunt land will not be building for anyone in need. Any houses that are built in any National Park command a big premium over market housing. The last building sold in that area was an unfinished barn without any proper rooms or roof which would probably need another 500 k spent to bring it up to habitable standards, this fetched nearly a million, and the owner retained a plot of land without planning permission which is up for sale for 750k. People in need? It is all about greed.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- M (8th Sep 2023 - 07:53:00)

Any houses/development on the land within the SDNP boundary will go towards the SDNPAs housing allocation not EHDC.
EHDC have the problem at the moment in finding sites for their new housing allocation and that is where Liphook is likely to find itself allocated sites for maybe up to 400-600 homes.
This thread was started to discuss the merits, or lack of, of the draft Neighborhood Plan that should be taking note of the communities wishes, and providing robust policies that would direct new development to the right locations, and provide the homes and infrastructure the community requires and deserves.
This NDP in no way does that and leaves the community at the mercy of EHDC and developers to build where they want and not where the community want.
Please read the plan and make your comments known to the Steering Group. I'm sure as volunteers they've done their best but this is too important to not have a robust community led development plan to shape the future of Liphook!

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Old local (8th Sep 2023 - 10:16:05)

M I find it quite ridiculous that we have the land in the park which will help our community if developed but as you say it will not go towards our allocation of housing at EHDC ridiculous. That means we could have 400 houses on SDNPA land and another 600 elsewhere in the wrong place what are our planners thinking about they need to get their heads tested. As for telling the NDP about what we want in liphook that’s already been done many times over the years so they must have records but just for the record it’s been an overwhelming vote for the land in the park to be developed to get the much needed infrastructure and that hasn’t changed over the years. People have got fed up telling them over the years and them not taking any notice and implementing the results of all the surveys.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Eric Benson (8th Sep 2023 - 10:55:43)

This is proving to be an interesting thread, conducted in a spirit of fair play.
There appear to be two common points of agreement -
1 The inclusion of the land between The Links, the Deer’s Hut and Bohunt School, basically Bohunt Manor, in the South Downs National Park was a mistake, because in so doing it has prejudiced development of the whole settlement – new homes having easy access to the main services, be they Bohunt School along the Longmoor Road, the principal supermarket in Sainsbury’s and the train station and, as importantly, the creation of a link road taking traffic from the south of Liphook wishing to go north to the “Liphook south” A3 junction, so removing traffic now passing through the centre of the village.

2 The proposed Neighbourhood Development Plan is not a ‘plan’, it waffles on for many, many pages but has no firm conclusions. It certainly does not address the need for infrastructure improvements in Liphook if there is to be any significant number of houses added to current requirements. 600 new houses if they come will mean at least 1200 people of varying ages, 600 or more cars and, if employment is to be encouraged, 200 to 300 new jobs “locally, greater pressures on the GP surgeries (which must be combined into one building as proposed by the 2010 planning consent) and so on.

Do not forget there is already a contentious planning application for 100 units or so on the Chiltley Lane Chicken Farm, a singularly inappropriate location when one takes into account its distance from those key services, and one that ignores the tricky question of “sewage out” and the possible risks to the railway embankment northern side, as recorded by Network Rail.

Can everyone following this thread to take the time to deal with the survey for the Neighbourhood Development Plan. It is quite tedious to work through and will be time consuming but if enough of us object some sense may come of it.

regards
Eric

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Joe (8th Sep 2023 - 11:34:04)

Objecting to the plan will not achieve your desired outcome to build 600 new houses in the park. If there is no neighbourhood plan the planning authority would reject it as they always have in the past. And in any case all the people who post on here may not see the need for 600 new houses there. As one of the posters said - letters of support to build were sent in with the last Bohunt application and did not achieve anything. Also Eric, building at Bohunt would not stop building on the Chicken Farm as they are 2 separate planning Authorities with different housing allocations.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Old resident (8th Sep 2023 - 13:22:57)

Joe we all no you are dead against building on that piece of land that’s your prerogative goodness knows why but you must also agree that there are a great many that do . As it’s the only place to build that has any advantages for liphook even if it’s very little it’s more than any other site would bring. We all no there are two different planning organisations which is totally ridiculous they need their heads banging together liphook will suffer tremendously if houses are built on the wrong side of the square. It’s a travesty that the boundary was set through the middle of our Parrish 500.mts from our conservation square which is far more important than that piece of land. Perhaps we should go to parliament about it because I’m sure if the right people were made aware of the amount of damage that we are facing because of very poor planning something could be done . It seems that the neighbourhood plan have no say in the matter so what’s the point. The terrible thing is why do we have to put up with this state of affairs just because two authority’s can’t get together and see sense.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Trevor Maroney (8th Sep 2023 - 15:26:14)

Eric

There is little point in analysing all the views expressed, however relevant, on this thread as the vast majority are from anonymous sources. Some of the contributors may have or been given on behalf of parties with vested interests; some of whom may not even live in the parish! It therefore, in planning terms, carries no weight, and, as such, should NOT influence any member of the NDP SG!.

The only views that can be accepted by the NDP SG are those given in response to their survey. That said, although I do live in Liphook, am known locally and have served as both a parish and district councillor, I will not be responding to the survey for the simple reason that there is a lot more work that still needs to be done before it can be put to a referendum. Currently, it's half a plan: it needs proposals on preferred housing sites and justifiable supporting infrastructure. As it currently stands it will not protect us from neither EHDC Local Plan housing numbers nor those of speculative developers.

I believe that there are grounds for NDP team working more closely with SDNPA in the long term in providing social housing (I dislike that word affordable) as, in my view, 80% of market housing rates/values are still not affordable, especially when they directly impact on rents for those on low incomes. Much to my astonishment, I found out only last year that EHDC's current Local Plan does not ask any developers to provide social housing (which should be delivered at 54% of market rates); it just required 40% of housing to be "affordable" a target which EHDC rarely meets! I could go on, but enough said.

I have asked the Lib Dem district councillor group to ensure that the provision of social housing - a topic which was being considered by the Tories prior to the May election - is included in the new Local Plan. It was one of my election promises, which I am now unable to push through.


Trevor Maroney

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Life long resident (8th Sep 2023 - 18:56:20)

I thought the neighbourhood plan was a plan by the people for the people all the majority views put together and implemented into a forward plan for liphook . And this plan would be binding completely come what may if this isn’t the case what’s the point if EHDC and the national parks people can disregard it then it’s a waste of time and money..

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Steve miller (8th Sep 2023 - 19:47:03)

Just as a matter of interest.
Does anyone commenting here believe that, if the SDNP boundary had not been taken almost into the centre of the village, that the land between Portsmouth Road and Longmoor Road would not have been the logical and best place to accommodate future EHDC housing allocations?

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Russ (8th Sep 2023 - 21:04:05)

Spot on Steve if liphook had been all in or all out we would have had that land developed with all the benefits that were first offered link road being the most important. Should have been done before the boundary was set .

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- M (9th Sep 2023 - 07:48:01)

Trevor you are 100% correct, this draft NDP is no plan at all and anyone who has concerns about the future development of Liphook needs to read it and respond.
I am rather disappointed that you as a past Parish Councillor and active member of the community will not be making a formal comment along the lines of "This is no Plan and needs rethinking" because as you say, comments on here will have no impact! Please reconsider and make your expert views known.
With regard to your comment Steve. I remember being told by someone who asked a question at one of the local meetings (I believe it was the EHDC meeting where we all stuck our stickers as to our preferred development sites) to both the EHDC and SDNPA planners that if the Parish had been all in or all out of the SDNP would the Bohunt Manor site be suitable for development. It was a resounding YES, and they both actually added that it would already have been developed!
So why isn't it now?

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- Old local (9th Sep 2023 - 11:16:56)

Just another thought why has liphook lost out on so many good developments . Going back before the national parks involvement we lost bohunt because two or three Parrish councillors didn’t like the owners of bohunt and went against the community’s vote. And then joined the sos bohunt brigade. Next we lost the link road between headly road and longmoor road at a very dodgy planning meeting at penns place the chairman pushed the planning through against a very hostile public with out making the land available for the road that HCC had recommended the smell still hasn’t gone away. Now we are subject to EHDC hosting upon us development in totality the wrong place ie chicken farm or anything that side of the square. It seems that the community doesn’t matter when it comes to planning people that have lived here all their lives and many generations are not listening to because we seem to have people in charge that have the mindset that they know best.

Re: Bramshott and Liphook neighbourhood development plan 2020-2040
- M (17th Sep 2023 - 13:49:01)

Just a reminder that the Consultation to the draft Bramshott and Liphook Neighbourhood Development Plan closes this Friday 22nd September.

I implore all those that are interested in the future development of our Parish to take some time and read the Draft Plan and make your comments accordingly via the website:

bramshottandliphookndp.uk/formal-consultation

This is an important Plan for the Parish and it should reflect the wishes of the community, but in my opinion it in no way does.

I also note on the NDP website there is a meeting with Developers at the Millennium Centre on Tuesday 19th September between 19.00-21.00 where "Opportunities of BLNDP policies & design codes for future development in the parish. Members of the public may attend".

Something kept a bit quiet so perhaps a reason to attend?

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