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Next government - Re (11th May 2023 - 09:43:19) I see that labour and Lib Dem’s are talking about a pack to form the next government. All the coalition governments in the past have failed because both sides don’t agree on most of policy so is it a way to go. The best government is with a clear majority as was with Thatcher and Blair. We need a very strong government to push through policies to get the country running again.

Re: Next government - Paul M (11th May 2023 - 09:59:34) Sorry to hijack, but - where has the Gareth J Rees thread gone?! Presumably removed, can the Editor explain why so that we at least understand the rationale (or request)? Thank you! He requested that all his posts were removed.

Re: Next government - Paul M (11th May 2023 - 10:54:14) @Editor - thank you, useful to know.

Re: Next government - Local (11th May 2023 - 11:30:17) We have had a government with a majority for some time. All we seem to have acheived at that time is crash the economy and a enjoy a sustained period of internal infighting leading to a succession of prime ministers. It would be nice for us, as a nation, to get past the idea we need to crush all dissent in order to get things done. Coalitions are not necessarily a bad thing. We have had a decade of divisive politics. We need to learn the art of compromise again as a nation. There will be no formal pact between Labour and the Lib Dems. I do suspect the local elections have shown voters will work out how to vote tactically on their own in order to get their desired outcome anyway.

Re: Next government - Local me (11th May 2023 - 14:08:03) Re, you reckon the Thatcher and Blair years our best, I can only put that down to nostalgia, god help us!!! One created the 'me me me' onanist society with the help of Murdoch, the City spivs and a lot of other rich old white men. We think somehow that improved society but in reality it divided it even more, broke down our communal spirit and created a culture of greed, self preservation and division. The second did much the same (at least Thatcher was honest about her leanings), whilst also, with the Bush regime, casually and catastrophically, destroying a stable pro western country with millions of dead and after effects they're still living with, which had, at the time, yes a brutal, but totally pro western leader America had placed there themselves, all on the basis of lies, a dodgy dossier written by a college student and eagerly swallowed whole by our 'intelligence' community, complete contempt for a little understood foreign culture, creating a regional meltdown that had totally opposite effect of what it claimed to be trying to achieve, hell we didn't even get to keep their oil that we so coveted, or destroy AlQaeda, who weren't even there before we created a vacuum for them to move into, Saddam hated them as much as us! The problem with politicians and, as I get older I find with all groups of people, they can't be trusted once you give them power, sure they' will 'promise' you the earth, love, wealth, equality, community, health they'll offer you their souls, their wives, their mistresses, you name it, until they get power, then it's all self aggrandisement, wealth, cosying up to the elite, or else it's obsessive ideology, closed minded sectarianism, when did you EVER hear a politician saying: 'To be honest both the Tories and Labour and perhaps, occasionally, also the Liberals, have some good ideas and, if we just all sat down together we could come up with some policies that are practical, reasonable and work for the majority of the electorate'. Don't hold your breath, it really makes no difference which one is in power, most of us selfishly vote purely on which of their monetary bribes we think might benefit us, knowing full well they can't really afford it and will quietly withdraw the offer once they're in power citing 'economic changing realities and pledges are not promises and the financial situation we were left in didn't live up to expectations etc'. And then there's the youth who, we know because we all were young once, vote purely on the ideology of their mates and which leader will promise to hand out more free love, world peace, free accomodation, free lessons and legalise dope, preferably free dope, because in reality they are simply too young to have lived a life yet😂

Re: Next government - Re (11th May 2023 - 14:45:05) Local love your post about spot on . Yes I’m old lived through both not much to choose both went Ti?. Up . Complete on the button with the young no experience of hardship. I think perhaps the old generation are more equipped to cope with hard times anyway the debate goes on we will see when the time comes.

Re: Next government - AR (11th May 2023 - 18:12:07) Oh my Local me , bottle of wine and you and me could talk till the cows came home. The kids would not understand that.

Re: Next government - Kid (11th May 2023 - 19:22:49) Came home? Of course the kids couldn’t understand it. We can’t afford one.

Re: Next government - Resident (11th May 2023 - 20:56:24) Look out bring out the tissues usual lot coming on can’t afford this or that . Good job you don’t have a mortgage at 15% like we had and only one wage taken into account. And we had children and made ends meet .

Re: Next government - Kid (12th May 2023 - 06:07:45) Good job we didn’t have a mortgage at 14%? I’m pleased you’ve gone for this outdated and frequently debunked myth. When rates were this high for a short period, the average house price was 20k. House prices are now 300k on average, and much more in Liphook. Nearly 15 times more expensive than the 80s. Current interest rates are 5-6% on mortgages. They went up again yesterday. A 6% mortgage today is the equivalent of a 25% interest rate back in the 1980s, thanks to modern house prices. Making it many, many hundreds of pounds more expensive to pay back mortgages. If you can even get one. And you had one wage? For full disclosure, I’m fortunate enough earn above the national average salary at 29. I earn 30k at a local business. The bank will lend me four times my salary, so I have a 120k budget for a house. There is no deposit because I spent the overwhelming majority of my salary on flat rental in Bordon. There are no houses available for this price. None. You mention children. On my budget I am 100,000 pounds short of a two bedroom flat in Liphook. Kids are out of the question for me and many like me. I would need my salary to double, just to get a modest flat with two bedrooms, before I could even consider it. I went to school at Bohunt and lived here for nearly two decades with my parents. Of my class of 30, only one lives in Liphook. Because her father passed and left her a house. I think this is quite sad. Those kids eh.

Re: Next government - Pete (12th May 2023 - 07:38:49) Resident-When you had a mortgage of 15% average house prices were not 6 times the average salary as they are now. Of course nobody is allowed to be struggling nowadays as it doesn't fit in with the narrative that previous generations were so hard done by (oh woah is me). There are winners and losers in every generation don't make it a competition.

Re: Next government - Joe (12th May 2023 - 08:24:30) When the average salary was about a tenth of what it is now the mortgage companies only lent 2x the man’s salary and half x the females salary. Food inflation too was very high but we economised - no car usually, no furniture except second hand or free, no credit cards, no mobile phones or sky tv packages to pay for, no central heating, no luxury holidays, no new clothes, no takeaways or taxis. Expectations were very low. Meals out were once a year for a birthday, an outing to the pub was almost as rare. Food at home was very basic no chips ready meals, crisps or chocolate except on a birthday, No huge fridge freezers no tumble dryers. I could go on.

Re: Next government - Kid (12th May 2023 - 08:52:08) Joe, I do not doubt there are many areas where younger generations are more fortunate. Housing is not one of them. But wages have not kept pace with house prices. The issue isn’t having to budget to afford a mortgage, it’s that on an average UK income, you don’t even get the privilege of having a mortgage.

Re: Next government - Re (12th May 2023 - 10:24:54) Gone off subject a little bit . But I can see the connection I was one that had to deal with 15% mortgage went to 15% before I even moved in . Joe was about right had to work day and night three jobs on the go and the wife doing housework in between school time. Anyway all generations have their problems the thing is do we have any politicians that have got the guts to get this country back on its feet there’s no money in the kitty so any party coming in needs to be very tuff and have a thick skin and be very unpopular. A big problem I see today is the unions again with wage demands putting the railway out of business because they want the railways back in public’ ownership drivers on £58k and wanting more so that one thing that needs to be sorted. And I see people haven’t gone back to work after the pandemic and also working from home has had an impact on the economy things need to change or we are in for a very tuff time.

Re: Next government - Joe (12th May 2023 - 10:28:05) Yes that aspect of life is tough and the renting situation is not good today, but mortgages were not that easy to obtain, there were very strict criteria in place, no self employed people got a mortgage without having a higher mortgage rate to pay back, you had to have had the same employer for 3 years or more, no overtime or part time cash earnings were taken account of, if you were a single or divorced lady trying to get a mortgage your father had to be your guarantor. There was a large deposit required too as the highest offer would be on 85-90 percent mortgages, and they would withhold money from the offer if there was anything thrown up by the survey. Housing supply was limited and not usually any new properties or estates built nearby to your work or home lots of people I know moved to Milton Keynes just to get a new property and then commuted to London from there everyday.

Re: Next government - Jen (14th May 2023 - 08:57:47) Those who claim that it is not any harder today to get onto the housing ladder than it was in the past are deluded. It is massively harder - and for many, it's out of reach completely. Yes, mortgage interest rates were higher in the 1970s and 80s but houses were far cheaper and people with mortgages benefited from tax relief on the repayments.

Re: Next government - Local me (14th May 2023 - 12:08:34) Whoa, it's easy to say we had it easy! In 1985 my salary, for working 40 hours a week in a damp basement as a filing clerk was £3,500 pa in West London. You came up to bring the senior staff coffee and files and you had to be quick about it or you got fired on the spot. But you were glad to be summoned as it meant you got a break from the basement and got some fresh air from the heady mixture of mould and cigarette smoke. It was years later that my generation banned smoking indoors for your benefit! Somehow I bought a flat that cost £50,000 thanks to my parents acting as guarantors and a £5,000 loan from my gran (our parents were generally a lot poorer than yours and had nothing themselves but their hard work). Parents basically had to guarantor their kids a flat or they had no chance, a lot of my friends never got to own a property. Now you can call me lucky. Within 7 years I was sitting upstairs with my own desk and my salary was £15,000 and I'd paid my gran back, but of course now my mortgage payments on a £40k mortgage were nearly £500 a month! In the 1990s, up and down the country hundreds of thousands of families handed back their keys and left often in tears, to an uncertain future as their mortgages went up and their property prices plummeted. This must be when 'Kid' notes the average house price was £20k, although I think they're wrong, if you look it up average prices even then were nearer £50k and on affordabilitty the worst period was 2007. Yes there was some tax relief on mortgages, but just on the interest, not the capital. So mortgage companies no longer offered repayment mortgages but forced us all onto endowment mortgages, selling us very dodgy (and ultimately useless) expensive endowment products on top (no tax relief on them) and you NEVER paid off a penny on the loan during the life of the mortgage, just the interest. So my £500 a month was just interest on the loan and the useless endowment was on top! Help to Buy? No. No Win No Fee to claim back on your endowment? No Par Own Part Rent: No Properties to Rent: NO!! (the Rent Act killed the rental market and you had to move back in with your parents, gran, squat or rent off gangsters the likes of the notorious Peter Rachman, yes look him up and what he did to tenants who had zero protections, or the Krays and others, most of the gangs ran slum rental rackets for desperate families:( It wasn't till my generation changed the Rental Laws in 1988 to allow legal short term rentals that people had any security and law abiding landlords moved back into the market, now you can complain about a broken washing machine but noones going to beat you up and drag you into the street at 2 am! People love to victim blame the previous generation like the past was all rosy:)

Re: Next government - Pete (15th May 2023 - 13:54:02) I see it still is a competition.

Re: Next government - Penny Williamson (15th May 2023 - 17:29:57) Kid's, Local me's and Joe’s posts all make valid points. Unlike Pete’s post which I didn’t understand. It is almost impossible to compare what was happening in the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s and even the 80’s to what is happening now. All I would say is that people who grew up in the shadow of the war years and beyond expected less. They had less, very little was purchased on tick. People saved up for what they wanted and their biggest loan was the mortgage. There were no tempting credit/debit cards to encourage people to borrow, borrow, borrow. Youngsters today and I would include 40 and possibly 50 year olds have more disposable income which they spend on eating out regularly, designer clothes, expensive cars, holidays abroad etc. Nothing wrong with that but you can’t have everything. I do have sympathy with those who cannot get on the housing ladder but although houses were much cheaper in “the old days” the fact remains we did not have all the luxuries that people have today. For instance how many people are there who don’t have an Iphone – even those on low incomes have those and they are not cheap. It is all about priorities and dare I say, hard work.

Re: Next government - Charles (15th May 2023 - 18:41:13) I think what this stream demonstrates is the increasing divides in society. Whether it be old and young, haves and have nots, Tory or Labour (or Lib Dems/ Greens et al). Personally I consider myself very lucky to be in my mid 50's, free further education, nice house and a job that may be hard work but am valued by my employer. Over the last few years I have become increasingly aware of firstly the lower and then middle income brackets being squeezed in society. I hope the only way to resolve this issue is through the ballot box. It cannot be right that we have increasing numbers of people having to use food banks on a regular basis. I hope that whoever is in power looks to rebalance these divides rather than promoting them. Our electoral system may not be perfect but it is the one we have. You cannot complain about any political party or resulting policy if you do not vote. PS: Sorry, but reading some of the above could not help being reminded of the old Monty Python sketch - Four Yorkshiremen!

Re: Next government - Joe (15th May 2023 - 21:12:32) In answer to those people saying house prices were comparatively lower back in the 70s and 80s, it did not seem like it to me when I was living and working in central London on a fairly low income and I was working two jobs to just keep my head above water. Prices were a lot lower living further away from London but now the London house prices are even more out of sync with house prices elsewhere. I do think that the government is starting to look at the inflationary pressures from a different perspective ie the fuel companies and supermarkets are profiteering when the prices could be more reasonable.

Re: Next government - D (18th May 2023 - 07:56:32) Going back to the start of this thread, I'm more concerned about the way a prospective local government candidate was allowed to publish rude, aggressive defamatory posts. Realizing they could be very damaging to his own chances of being elected, and damaging to any party he may stand for (assuming any party would want him after this) they were removed. He certainly won't get my vote.

Re: Next government - Re (18th May 2023 - 09:55:45) Looking at all the posts some gone off subject but all very interesting views . Did not think it would run this long people have different views on the way forward which is good democracy I just wish that when a decision is made like coming out of the EU it should be accepted and move forward same as the next government not do everything to stop it working. As for who will be best next time it’s any ones guess but I will say Labour are not doing themselves any good with some of their recent publicity. As said we need a very strong government with a good majority to make some very hard decisions the public will not like we need to all get back to work very hard not 4 days a week or working from home as some councils seem to think is good practice. Train drivers on 100k and want more, nurses union representatives saying they are only striking to bring down the government this sort of behaviour must stop. The country comes first or we all go to the dogs.

Re: Next government - Ian (18th May 2023 - 12:42:24) RE, you cannot really compare a general election with the Brexit Referendum. At least if you think you made a blunder in a General Election you can change your mind and vote differently next time. With regards to the Brexit referendum (I voted leave by the way) there was a slim majority of those that voted, in favour of Brexit, it was never THE OVERWHELMING view of the British public and in hindsight it’s looking like a mistake. Certainly if I was given the opportunity to vote again I would vote to remain, as far as the Brexit issue is concerned , democracy is now dead

Re: Next government - Joe (18th May 2023 - 13:52:16) The brexit issue was always going to be very complicated and unfortunately financial experts who warned against brexit for financial reasons were ignored. We implemented a lot of good legislation when we were in the EU and the politicians are now realising the bad effect on us in terms of increased / punitive paperwork for businesses and individuals.

Re: Next government - Re (18th May 2023 - 19:32:26) Well it’s a funny old thing as time has gone bye the more people I have had spoken to about Brexit the more they have said they think it’s the right decision because of the way the EU are going down hill. I would vote leave if a second vote came round. The same with the government I think labour and a Lib Dem pact would be disastrous if labour could have a big majority which I think highly unlikely then we would see but with the unions interfering so much it would be difficult to govern properly. So perhaps it’s the devil you know would be better?? .Anyway lots of different opinions we have time to think about it but it will probably all go terribly wrong.

Re: Next government - Joe (19th May 2023 - 12:41:27) I do not know what you think is so good about our situation now?

Re: Next government - Penny Williamson (19th May 2023 - 14:50:42) Charles I know that I will probably be "shot down in flames" for this post but with regard to your reference to food banks the latest stat. for obesity in the UK is 2 out 3 adults are obese or overweight. Percentages are 26% adults are obese and 38% are overweight. I know that obesity in some cases can be as a result of a medical problem, but the cause for obesity in the majority of people is over-eating and under-exercising. A surgeon once said to me many years ago "no fat people came out of Belsen!” Too much time is spent on computers, Iphones and other sedentary activities. Obesity costs the NHS (that is us) 14 billion a year. I know that people say that "junk" food is also to blame, that may be so, but you don't have to eat "junk” food all the time - have it occasionally. “junk” food is not necessarily cheaper than healthy food - fruit and vegetables are not as expensive as “junk” food, nor are cheaper cuts of meat and fish, but they have to be cooked and people don't want to cook as we used to in days gone by. Having said all that I am sure that there are people who are in need of foodbanks so this post is not a criticism of them. Foodbanks fill a need and help many families through difficult times, but please they are not here because we are a country full of starving people nor do the people who use them look malnourished.

Re: Next government - Re (19th May 2023 - 15:27:50) I didn’t want to mention Brexit but other people have yes I think things will get better because the EU are beginning to realise we aren’t going back and are stopping playing silly Bs . For instance my friend has just visited friends in Germany no problems going through customs as it should be no problems anywhere. If they could now be sensible about trading we would all benefit because I know you don’t think so but they need us as we need them. The Germans definitely want to trade sensibly so why can’t the rest? Perhaps I shouldn’t say but I think it’s our friends across the channel that are playing about, why I don’t know.

Re: Next government - passfield resident (19th May 2023 - 17:49:27) Re-maybe some European governments are suspicious of us as a country because they spent so much time negotiating with lying, cheating, self-serving idiots like Boris Johnson.

Re: Next government - fascinated (19th May 2023 - 17:57:20) Hi Penny Read your response with interest, Can you provide details and more over stats, where you state that people who use food banks 'do not look malnourished' or how you quantify this statement you have made.

Re: Next government - Re (19th May 2023 - 18:08:18) Well passfield resident that’s your opinion not necessarily everyone’s but that’s your prerogative at least he got the job done. Not like May and co dithering about. As I have said before we need a strong government to make decisions even when people don’t like it .

Re: Next government - Joe (19th May 2023 - 20:21:50) Penny I do not know where you shop but fruit, veg, even cheaper cuts of meat and fish are not as cheap as junk food. A packet of biscuits can be as little as 35p whereas a pack of apples is about a pound. There are cheap pizzas on sale for about 3.00 whereas a packet of mince would cost 3 -4 pounds and there are a lot of other ingredients needed to make a dish let alone the cost of the electricity and gas needed to cook the mince dish. Unless you have photographed every user of a food bank you cannot state that mostly obese people are using food banks. You may be in a fortunate financial position Penny, not everyone is so we should not judge.

Re: Next government - passfield resident (20th May 2023 - 07:04:25) Re-that was the opinion of most of his own cabinet in the end.

Re: Next government - passfield resident (20th May 2023 - 09:38:17) Penny-your remark about Belsen seems odd-could you explain it?

Re: Next government - Re (20th May 2023 - 10:24:04) Passfield resident I think you will find that it’s the back room boys the civil servants that didn’t want to come out of the EU that are causing all the problems and the likes of that idiot John Major who should have been put out of his misery years ago. As you probably no the country is really run by the civil servants and they loved the EU because of all the unnecessary red tape that they could hold everything up by using and know they are doing their best to thwart ministers doing their jobs especially doing away with EU laws that have no place in our system. Anyway back to the original post who do vote for next time what a choice go down the Labour route and take a chance with the unions running the show and very inexperienced ministers and Mr Stammer flip flopping about with Mr Corbyn hiding in the background. Or stay with what we have economy getting better dealing with the world very experienced ministers you have a choice not much really. Have a nice day.

Re: Next government - Joe (20th May 2023 - 11:29:17) Is the economy getting better? From which authority - written or otherwise do get your information?

Re: Next government - Re (20th May 2023 - 11:58:50) Fuel prices going down, inflation going down, things getting better yes.

Re: Next government - Joe (20th May 2023 - 13:01:30) Does not look as if Penny is going to reply but I think her remark about Belsen camp was that due to their starvation diet, no one appeared obese. She implies I think that if people were eating less junk food, which is fattening, their food bill would be a lot less, and should not need to be given food out by the food banks and the health service would not be dealing with the illnesses bought on by being overweight.

Re: Next government - passfield resident (20th May 2023 - 13:14:35) You don't need to talk about The Holocaust to make a simple point about obesity.

Re: Next government - Penny Williamson (22nd May 2023 - 10:41:10) Fascinated In answer to your question I help out in a Foodbank. Joe I bought a leg of lamb at Sainsburys which was reduced and I paid £13.99. Served hot with vegetables and cold with salad we got 8 good meals out of this one joint and I made some lamb stock. So do the maths. I bought eight white fish fillets for £2.50 and I made four meals out of them – 2 meals were fish in parsley sauce and for the other 2 we had grilled fish. I know that you cannot always buy things at half price, but seek and you shall find. Junk food is no cheaper than this. Stewing steak is also reasonable and can be made into casseroles and pies with added vegetables and I have worked per head it costs approximately between £1.50 and £2.00. I could go on but I think I have made my point with these examples. Joe I think I have explained how one can shop and cook economically. I very often see people with trollies piled high with “junk” food including sweets, crisps, fizzy drinks etc which I am sure costs far more than my weekly shop. With regard to your comment that I stated that mostly obese people are using food banks, please go back and read my post carefully. I quoted stats but nowhere did I say that obese people were using food banks. I did say however that none of the people I had seen using the food bank look malnourished. In addition Joe your statement and I quote “Does not look as if Penny is going to reply” is unnecessary. I don’t spend every minute of my time on Liphook Talkback. I have a family to feed and look after. Lastly I did not say no fat people came out of Belsen, I was merely quoting someone who had lived through the war and it’s aftermath. However newsreels do seem to support this statement. Passfield Resident by quoting the comment I was trying to point out that in the majority of cases obesity is caused by over-eating usually the wrong foods and under-exercising. It is a well known fact that, as long as you don’t have underlying health problems, if you burn off more calories than you consume you will lose weight and a healthy weight is maintained by a balanced diet. I cannot believe that those who have not agreed with my post and they are perfectly entitled to disagree, think that it is right that 14 billion was spent by the NHS on obesity and it's many related health problems.

Re: Next government - Re (22nd May 2023 - 12:43:26) Penny’s post brings to mind myself when my dear wife passed away she was a fantastic cook so very rarely visited the kitchen. I was still working so what to do we had a slow cooker quite large so off to sainsburys Sunday evening all sorts of meat and vegetables reduced sell by date’s running out. Bought loads all chopped up in the cooker oxo cubes on low food for the week superb eat like a king all week. And I could burn toast. Moral penny’s spot on you can feed a family quite cheaply even if you’re not a good cook. Yes there are some families having a very hard time but not all. You may remember the M P Edwina currie yes she who had an affair with John Major she did a survey on people on benefits went into a single parents house every latest gadget for the kids large TV made up to the nines complaining she wasn’t getting enough money to buy food. Edwina pointed out all the trappings and she said but my children are entitled to have all this for their education? Perhaps we expect too much.

Re: Next government - Bernard (22nd May 2023 - 13:41:55) Re. Fuel prices are going down because wholesale prices internationally are reducing following their peak when the war in Ukraine started. Inflation marginally reduced this month on a year-on-year basis. According to the Office for National Statistics, this is because of the reduction in fuel prices (and gas/electricity). However, the ONS say that the increase in the price of food, recreation and culture means that inflation is not falling as fast as it otherwise would. So, whilst fuel prices are steadying internationally, we are still stuck in a cost of living crisis. Boris did not get Brexit done. He made a mess of the negotiation and tried to re-negotiate it after he signed. Rishi Sunak managed to get a revised deal, with concessions from the EU, but the Unionists still won't go for it and NI politics remain paralysed, with support for Sinn Fein increasing notably in the council elections last week. A forseeable and obvious reason why Brexit, or at least the version where we left the Customs Union, was not workable. The country is in a pickle. The NHS especially so. Bring on the general election. We so need a new direction. I would welcome a coalition next time; it means the largest party has to stick to the centre ground, rather than the scary lurching to the right with the Tories since 2019, or the move much further left with Labour before Starmer was appointed as leader. It keeps the largest party in check - per Lord Acton: all power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Re: Next government - Optimistic (24th May 2023 - 11:21:45) Inflation down again looks like things are getting better. Perhaps we are turning the corner all hands to the pump.

Re: Next government - Joe (24th May 2023 - 15:53:34) To the contrary the Bank of England have announced today that the inflation rate has gone up due to wage and price increases, and it is likely that interest rates will have to go up to around 5.5 per cent soon.

Re: Next government - Sam (24th May 2023 - 17:31:54) The once every 4-5 year choice between two parties will save us all... Yes for democracy, we are saved.

Re: Next government - By (24th May 2023 - 18:13:27) All you doom mongers yeah of little faith. We have done it before and it’s coming right know the opposition party’s have nothing new all they can think of is spending more money you can’t do that when the pot is empty so where will they get it from you and me NO THANKS same as last time. We will see in 18 months time.

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