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Local Talkback
Talkback is for the residents and businesses in Liphook to voice their views and opinions about local issues and events.

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Works in Liphook - broadband?
- C (28th Oct 2022 - 15:44:22)

Hi - anyone know what these works are in Liphook? Presume they're something to do with fibre broadband? Don't remember seeing a letter. Hoping they're not going to last too long - very noisy when working from home!

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- I (28th Oct 2022 - 17:58:36)

Such a shame they have disturbed you. Pesky infrastructure improvements shouldn’t be allowed

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- C (28th Oct 2022 - 22:26:09)

Any sensible answers to my innocuous and reasonable question gratefully received!

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- M (29th Oct 2022 - 08:33:45)

If it's the same works as around us then it's Swish Fibre.
Maybe, "C", you should just go and ask the workers what they are doing, and if it's causing you an issue then maybe they can modify their work pattern.
The guys doing the works near us are very amenable and easy to talk to.

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- Caroline (29th Oct 2022 - 09:33:42)

Thank you “M”. They’re not bothering me. Was just interested to know what it was.

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- Paul M (29th Oct 2022 - 13:25:11)

I know various people campaigned for fibre broadband, maybe you could help me. Given the works and new fibre installation, the price of broadband will now go down? It will be cheaper, right?

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- Ian (29th Oct 2022 - 15:51:34)

Paul, Swish are being very coy about costs! Very tricky to find any figures without having to provide a lot of information about yourself. That being said super fast fibre will be a godsend for some regardless of cost.

Prices are on their homepage www.swishfibre.com. Cheapest is £30 for 150mbps up and down. 18 month contract with 6 months free, so equivalent to only £20 / month. Which seems very reasonable.

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- Paul M (29th Oct 2022 - 17:10:16)

@Ian / Ed - thanks for the info. I've never had an issue with our current broadband - even when we had 2 people working from home using Teams at the same time, running financial and physics analysis, plus 2 teenagers streaming movies and using XBox all at the same time. Can't see why I'd need 450Mbps.

Yes, 450 seems a bit extreme. But the 150/150 option is a vast improvement over the 35/9 I get at the moment.

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- er (29th Oct 2022 - 22:03:24)

Who exactly are Swish?

Couple of weeks or so back and Hewshot Lane was shut, BT/Openreach (whoever can never remember whose who!) were doing Hewshot Lane I spoke to them there, they said there was a rush to do the these sorts of areas due to government incentive. But I think it's madness that there isn't just one company doing all of it instead of each company coming and digging it up and then you have to go with them, or do you, please someone tell me this isn't the case and that each company isn't going to individually dig up all the streets each time!

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- D (30th Oct 2022 - 08:47:22)

Without getting too geeky, there are a few advantages, which may or may not be relevant to you.

Hopefully this doesn't come across as patronising, but it's easier to use a road as an analogy.

So the first part is that most people confuse speed and bandwidth. Bandwidth is how much data can be in transit at a given time or for our road how many lanes the road has. Speed is how long that data takes to make its journey, or for our road it's speed limit.

Most people currently have an ADSL line, the A stands for Asymmetrical. This means the download bandwidth is greater than the upload bandwidth, a typical ratio could be that the download is 5 times.
So the average broadband road has 5 lanes going southbound, and 1 going northbound, with a speed limit of 50mph in both directions. For lots of people this is fine, they do lots of Southbound journeys, a few northbound ones, and the journey time does not cause issues.

Switching to fibre has a couple of advantages if you need them. Firstly the overall bandwidth is higher, the carriageway now has 50 lanes, secondly the speed will typically be higher, this can be variable, but typically would expect it to be like having a 150mph speed limit. Finally the fibre line will be symmetrical, it will have 50 lanes going in both directions.

For most people they care mainly about download bandwidth, because for them they want downloads to be fast, and if they stream music or movies, they want to get more than a seconds worth of content transferred each second, so that once it has started the song or movie continues uninterrupted. In this case unless you have a large household, fibre may not offer much benefit.

Those who would benefit from fibre would be:

Those who care about speed, typically where response time matters, the obvious example is serious gamers. Examples of this are games where you play with others racing cars or shooting people. The amount of data that needs to be shared isn't huge, but it changes very quickly. The position of all players needs to be sent to there computers to the server hosting the game and then back out to all the players. With a slower speed you may see a person or car in one position, go to shoot them or go to pull alongside and by the time your computer has sent your action and received the next update from the server the other player has actually moved and you have shot into thin air or rammed them.
Those that make teams calls may sometimes have experienced lag, where there is a pause before the person responds, this is a similar situation where bandwidth isn't a problem but latency is.

Those who need more bandwidth, if you have a large family or regularly download large files.

Those who upload a lot, a symmetrical line will make a big difference here, if you need to regularly upload large files, or you stream live video having greater upload bandwidth will be useful to you. In my opinion this one will become gradually more important to all of us. In the early days the internet was a few people creating (uploading) content and most people just consuming (downloading it) it. With the social media, and more and more smart home devices that have an internet connection communications will become a lot more multidirectional.

Hopefully that was somewhat informative, and everyone has made it this far and not fallen asleep!

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- Neil (31st Oct 2022 - 10:50:02)

Thanks, that explanation was very clear.

People can be very short-sighted. The internet demands will only go up over time so what 'is fine for us now' won't be in the future.

I remember back in the late 1990's when I was blown away by the amazing speed of the first 1mbps broadband connection my friend got to replace dial up. Today, that would be unusable.

Neil

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- Paul M (31st Oct 2022 - 20:46:48)

Some useful answers, thank you. I received the obligatory Swish leaflet in the post today telling me of 'blistering speeds' now available. No mention of price :)

I'm certain there will be people keen to have fast internet access for all the reasons D set out. But for me, current speeds are perfect for remote working / studying, streaming, connectivity etc.

As in the main I lecture my teenagers on getting off gadgets I would still be inclined to say get outdoors and enjoy life, spend less time behind your screens anyway! Each to their own etc, so just sharing diplomatically ...

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- S (1st Nov 2022 - 11:28:51)

Am I right in thinking that SWISH are just installing the fibre but any ISP can use this? The fibre is after all connected to the open reach/BT wiring cabinets aren't they?

A BT engineer advised me that fibre was being installed in Haslemere and Liphook imminently that was a few weeks ago and we would then be able to use their fast fibre connection. Also that virgin would be available too. I presume this will be all usable once SWISH have done their bit.

Having looked at Swish, the costs look more than other ISPs.

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- er (1st Nov 2022 - 13:20:21)

Yippee, does all this digging mean Liphook will finally be able to move into Mark Zuckerberg's new Metaverse? I hear we'll all get our own new faces and bodies but they're still working in the legs, although there's some debate among the technicians what legs actually do or if they'll actually needed anymore😂😂😂

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- C (28th Nov 2022 - 11:21:47)

I’ve now received a couple of emails from Swish, after registering for updates. Their offer is much faster than we have now so I’m tempted.

Does anyone know if I can simply ask my existing provider, PlusNet, to upgrade us to the new network or is it only available via Swish?

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- Oliver (28th Nov 2022 - 16:53:50)

I also got a call from Swish and will be switching to them shortly (awaiting call from engineers)

I spoke to my current provider (Zen) who said they do not have access to the Swish infrastructure. 'Upgrading' is therefore not possible.

I have been very happy with Zen in the past but the super speeds offered by Swish have convinced me to swap over

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- Rg (28th Nov 2022 - 19:46:37)

All links to bt exchange so any provider should have access??
Yes no????
But hopefully at sensible prices

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- Neil (28th Nov 2022 - 22:32:08)

Hi

Swish are offering 6 months free then a 12 month contract. If you speak with their support team they will also provide it free for any period remaining on your existing contract from another supplier. So I got another 4 months free as my Sky contract runs to Apr-23 and my neighbour got an additional 12 months as his contract expires Dec-23. Not bad! They ask for a screenshot of your contract expiry date.

Thanks

Neil

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- M (29th Nov 2022 - 17:20:08)

My understanding is that Swish is a completely separate network which is not connected to the BT Openreach network at all.
The only network that is "Unbundled" by statute is the BT Openreach network, hence why any operator can use it and BT has to let them. Swish does not have to let anyone have access to their network so there is no open access/competition on their fibre network.
The deal for Swish 150 looks good but you don't get a telephone line with. You're only option is to use their call divert facility (which you pay for) to have your BT landline number diverted to your mobile, or you keep paying Line Rental to someone to keep your landline number terminated on your property.
Add the cost of paying Swish and Line Rental to someone else and the overall costs increase. Do away with a Landline and number (just use your mobile) and it looks good value, but who's to say it won't go up as there's no competition?

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- C (30th Nov 2022 - 07:09:35)

Thanks for the helpful responses.

Is the Swish system the result of many of us signing up last year to request this work and pledging vouchers?

Does anyone know if BT will be upgrading their infrastructure to full fibre to the premises? Or is Swish the only way to ever get the faster broadband?

I’m happy to give up the landline - most calls received are scams anyway!

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- S (1st Dec 2022 - 08:00:12)

So, are you saying that SWISH have paid at their own cost to lay all this fibre and dig up the roads purely to monopolise the access to high speed fibre for their own ISP only?

So when BT want to lay theirs which they told me would be here in the next couple of months they will have to dig the roads up again and lay their own cables alongside SWISH's?

I am sorry but I can't believe that SWISH would even be allowed to do this...

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- A.R (1st Dec 2022 - 08:20:58)

My thoughts exactly. Who gave permission for such huge scale works. Why wasn't the village informed ? British Rail send out letters to inform of works on the line, so why did not Swish ?

The pavements have now become patchworks and look unsightly and if they are to be dug up again that would be insanity in full swing.
As for the inconvenience to everybody it should have been planned better.

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- BD (1st Dec 2022 - 08:36:01)

I think people should try to get an understanding about what has happened before getting cross.

There will not be separate cable put down by each Fibre provider.

The providers (whether it be Sky, BT, Virgin, Plusnet etc) will use the existing fibre that has been put down recently (by Swish).

Much like water or gas pipes. You do not need to dig up the road outside your house every time you change providers.

This is not true. Swish have installed the ducting and fibre themselves - they do not have to share this service with any other provider.

On the other hand, BT Openreach have to allow other providers to use their ducts and fibre (at a cost) where they are available.

If you accept the very reasonable price for Swish Fibre it is very unlikely that you would be able to migrate to another provider without that provider putting new fibre to your property.

If BT Openreach had run fibre to your property then other providers would be able to pay to use it.

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- Paul (1st Dec 2022 - 08:54:51)

Agree with S and AR. The environmental impact of these works is disgraceful when you consider the amount of energy (tarmac production), emissions (vans, diggers, trucks, mixers) that were used to dig up and leave a patchwork across the village. Was it really needed?

No-one seems to be mentioning prices, Swish don't make it easy to compare, so here they are:

Swish 400 - £50 setup, £40 monthly, £530 first year
Swish 900 - £50 setup, £75 monthly, £950 first year

Worth Googling Swish to read up on their investment banking background.

Why did you leave off the most cost effective solution ?

Swish 150 - free setup, £30 monthly, 6 months free - 18 month contract.

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- Paul (1st Dec 2022 - 10:32:22)

@ Ed: not intentional, the 2 prices I got were the only 2 I could find!

Good that we're getting pricing info out to people, however!

Prices are listed on their website home page www.swishfibre.com

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- Richard (1st Dec 2022 - 11:08:06)

A few months ago on the Canadian Estate in Liphook, a provide was also laying fibre in the BT ducts.

Maybe Openreach are getting ready to roll a FTTP product?

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- Paul (1st Dec 2022 - 22:44:53)

Once Starlink is fully operational cables and fibre under the ground will be so last century :)

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- M (2nd Dec 2022 - 17:35:40)

Utilities are able to dig up just about anywhere without too much consultation to the local community, so unfortunately not much anyone can do to stop it.
As I've mentioned before, and the Editor has reiterated, only BT Openreach have to open their network to other providers. It was one of the requirements when BT was privatised as they (at the time) had the monopoly on the cable network that went to all our premises.

Swish have funded the cost of providing all the ducts and fibre cables themselves, albeit that they are likely to have obtain Government funding to provide the Fibre to Premises network (FTTP) that Governments have been promising...and the public demanding!

If/when BT Openreach do install FTTP in Liphook they are unlikely to have to dig up many roads and pavements as they already have a network of underground ducts to put the cables in. Closer to your house they may have to provide some new ducting but that will be on a premises-by-premises situation.

The question is should swish be legally obliged to let other operators/suppliers use their network as BT Openreach have to? Personally, I think they should but that's a legal situation which is far above my pay scale!

Re: Works in Liphook - broadband?
- O (2nd Dec 2022 - 19:12:14)

Swish fibre are a stand alone ISP and no other ISPs have access to their network. If you would like to go full fibre, for faster speeds, your only choice at the moment is Swish. As it stands, Openreach will begin building full fibre but only for the residence that live in Canada way and surrounding roads. I think this is due to community funded full fibre. I have asked the questions but it seems as if there is no near future plan for Openreach to roll out full fibre in the Liphook area. This may change due to Swish now rolling out their full fibre network.

Swish are allowed to use the BT network under something called PIA. If for any reason the BT ducts have blockages, Swish will lay their own ducts to avoid the blockages (rather than clear them) but then BT are not allowed to use Swish ducts in turn. So when Openreach begin work, installing fibre cables, the road works will start again to clear said blockages.

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