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Local Talkback
Talkback is for the residents and businesses in Liphook to voice their views and opinions about local issues and events.

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Neighbourhood plan
- ER (23rd Jun 2022 - 10:04:26)

Went to the meeting last night about traffic through the square. Stopped going some time ago because it was a wast of time but thought I would see if things had got better. New chairman gave a lot of information. It seems that Hampshire Highways will not pay for any road improvements any improvements must come from local sources ie developments. The only development that offers some infrastructure is the land behind bohunt school . Big breakthrough national parks are now talking have taken their heads out of the sand. Realise that this land is crucial to liphooks future. The chairman quite rightly said no more development until a way around the square was in place. It was quite obvious that a great many people in the meeting had no idea how bad the traffic is through the square and that it’s a 10 mile round trip to get from one side to the other when the square is closed which happens occasionally. The Portsmouth road coming in to liphook is very busy because liss traffic cannot get out on to ham barn roundabout so they come to liphook to access the A3 . So the link road behind bohunt school must be the number one priority then shut the bohunt entrance in longmoor road All traffic then accessing the school from the link road makes sense. Another revaluation the parish council have quite a lot of money from somewhere the chairlady was quite sparing with her reply. But if this money has come from the community chest in EHDC which all developer’s have to pay into then it should be spent on infrastructure ie converting the two very dangerous crossings into controlled crossings. Lots of things to think about but it seems we have to pay for everything EHDC and HCC have no interest in Liphook. Very sad .

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- George (23rd Jun 2022 - 10:33:38)

If you go onto the Liphook & Bramshott NDP website and link to the presentation on you tube, you will see the land that's marked with potential development sites, the land right behind the Anchor is also marked for houses..

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- ER (23rd Jun 2022 - 11:37:25)

Yes George all that land running from Portsmouth road to longmoor road roundabout could provide us with so much. We must move on things have got to a point that we must protect our square if we don’t then all is lost. Just think with that road you could virtually make longmoor road local traffic only very heavily calmed . We must plan ahead get the land owners and the national parks talking make it happen.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- A.R (23rd Jun 2022 - 16:03:23)

I have been an advocate for using the Bohunt land for years now. Having lived opposite there in the 1970's nothing has changed there since being in the national park. Members of the Parish Council have voiced their displeasure for using this land with such vehemence it has been quite staggering, to the point that other developments have been built or put forward with no real thought as to what it is doing to the square.
I do hope common sense prevails before long otherwise I will despair for Liphook.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Graham (23rd Jun 2022 - 17:04:01)

I completely agree with you AR.

At last weeks Penally Farm planning mtg it was a very clear and biased presentation to push the Penally Farm Development (which is outside the settlement boundary and on a single track lane), over and above the Bohunt Land with all of its clear attributes and advantages, all just because it is within the SDNP. You really could not make it up if you tried.

Common sense has clearly been set aside on this one!

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Iris (23rd Jun 2022 - 18:33:21)

Even if you are correct that this huge development would be allowed in the park it would be years away from getting the permission to build. As for saving the conservation square it looks awful at present with that huge blue advert taking up all of the former mobility shop, and the hoardings over the former paint shop, Protect the square from what ?

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Jimmy (23rd Jun 2022 - 20:25:09)

Can somebody tell me how anyone living on the new development on penalty farm would get to sainsburys or bohunt school without going through the square

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- ER (23rd Jun 2022 - 21:42:27)

Iris it will not take years it has already been years on the table. It was on the table before the national park put in their boundaries which everyone told them were in the wrong place. We must now push this forward and back it. As for your comment about the square it’s being devastated by traffic if we can over come this we can get it back to a lovely place to live in. Lib are trying to keep it looking good but are finding it very hard with 40 tonnes trucks going through all this time this HAS got to STOP. Yes I agree two places are letting it down you are right the old mobility shop is not good. The development opposite the dragon has gone on long enough the council should look into it. The Dragon have made a lovely job of their frontage so the square is not to bad but could be much better.With the new cinema and two great coffee shops things are moving on.We must get the traffic away the most important thing to do it’s killing our lovely. Village.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Iris (23rd Jun 2022 - 23:03:19)

E R the fact you say a development at Bohunt Manor has been proposed by developers for 15 years plus should tell you something. There is no magic bullet you can fire to make it happen now. Traffic was far worse before the Liphook bypass was built.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- J (24th Jun 2022 - 08:27:38)

A crazy, ridiculous, highly unlikely and very likely unpopular pie-in-the sky out-of-the-box thought… ;-)

Link London Road to Haslemere Road one-way through the current skatepark area to form a one-way system which runs back through the (one-way) Square.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- D (24th Jun 2022 - 09:05:40)

I have no problem with traffic going through the square, only when it gridlocks. This only happens at start and end of school and no amount of relief roads will stop that. "Ah, but where's your evidence?" Because it doesn't happen in school holidays.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- ER (24th Jun 2022 - 10:15:31)

Well iris i take it you were not at the meeting. The old A3 is nearly as busy but the traffic has changed much larger lorries 40 tons articulated vehicles which cannot negotiate the roundabouts and the very small side roads. The other 4 roads are a way above before the bypass in fact gridlock a lot of the time so at least a30% extra traffic. Last night at 5 o’clock gridlock in midhurst road. So the traffic is continues all day. This was proven at the meeting. You say that the development has been on the table for 15 years yes because the bohunt manor action group with some parish councillors on it managed to get it refused at EHDC. Then the national parks came along and again they lobbied very aggressively to have the boundaries set the wrong side of that land . That land is farm land NOT national park you are not allowed out there the wetlands the other side yes must be protected. And if you were at the meeting you would have heard that has all changed the national parks are now talking because they have realised their mistake the government have brought this up and liphook was mentioned as an example of community’s being split by poor boundaries setting. So it’s time we try to save our CONSERVATION SQUARE the HART of our community. Perhaps we should do what the French do blockade the square a couple of times a week and then you people that don’t want a any roads around the square can travel 10 miles to get from one side to the other might change your minds .

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Iris (24th Jun 2022 - 10:54:42)

Yes Russ I was at the meeting and I think you are clutching at a straw the chairman had heard. Bohunt Manor is in the sdnpa, that has not changed. What has changed is that EHDC
have been given higher housing figures to find, so they are suspending the work they have already done on their emerging local plan, the Chairman has heard that the SDNPA have been given more housing numbers. This does not automatically follow that they will allow a huge development at Bohunt Manor. The SDNPA area is huge they have plenty of towns in which to absorb their numbers without building in the countryside areas of the Park. They do allow development eg in Midhurst the King George hospital re development is within the park, and the ZeNeca building is also in the Park being re developed. Until you hear it from the officers of the SDNPA eg Chris Patterson and our SDNPA county council representative who is Debbie Kernow Ford, ( who incidentally was not at that meeting ) that they approve of a huge housing site and ring road through the Park then it is just in a developers wish list /imagination.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- er (24th Jun 2022 - 11:13:04)

To make a big difference at busy periods, any link road would have to redirect increasingly large amounts of through traffic away from the square, but logically, very little through traffic is coming from Portsmouth Road direction and heading to the A3 southbound, because there are better options from that side of the square.

If it were possible for a road through Bohunt Manor to stop the volume of through traffic which is for example now:

Headley Road/The Square/Haslemere Road, it would become:

Headley Road, turn right onto The Avenue (narrow road and would become a big pinch point), left (or would it be right?) Longmoor Road, enter the proposed new Bohunt Manor Estate link, cross Portsmouth Road, into Station Road, turn right onto Midhurst Road (another big pinch point) cross narrow bridge, along narrow Midhurst Road (possibly cut through Berg Estate/Chiltley Lane/Devils Lane to avoid queues) else left Highfield Lane (narrow fast road), right turn onto Liphook road (pinch point) towards Haslemere!

Not very appealing I think you'll agree, the reverse journey offers similar challenges.

To have a proper bypass engineers must be bold, so on your behalves I have laboured over a slow breakfast of bacon and eggs to come up with a plan, and now completed, I present my final blueprint to you, trusting that it should address all your concerns and resolve any outstanding issues:

To begin, any successful scheme simply must be based upon a new motorway style junction at the current A3 services, with a new link to both Hill House Road B3004 and Liphook/Haslemere Road cutting across some fields and other stuff, running south of Liphook Station, sort of across Stanley Common where some cows live, joining up with Liphook Road east of the railway bridge somewhere.

It could be adequately funded by allocating some funding or else selling building permits within the ring road for some new housing estates, flats, various trading estates, perhaps a new chemist, coffee shops as nobody has a kettle anymore, enterprises and leisure venues, everyone would be happy and then we could apply for the coveted 'Largest Village in Britain' award, and it could be named after me as I thought of it first, 'the Liphook er bypass' which I think sounds perfect!

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- ER (24th Jun 2022 - 11:46:13)

Well you are very informed but I still think you are wrong. You are probably the lady that had so much to say and wouldn’t let anyone else get a word in . You seem to not want to save our heritage the square witch is far more important than a piece of under used farm land. You must no that land is private and definitely not national park for people to use. You don’t seem to want to save liphook from the ravages of the huge increase in traffic perhaps you live somewhere that you are not effected. Never mind I think you may have a fight on your hands we must move forward the people of liphook have had enough of the past being ignored by the people who think they no best.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- D (24th Jun 2022 - 11:59:52)

"Blockade the square"? Do you mean "preventing people from travelling to and from work and going about their lawfull business"? I think new laws have been introduced recently to prevent this unlawfull activity. You all knew the road layout of Liphook before you moved here so stop whining.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- er (24th Jun 2022 - 12:12:52)

PS just forestall up any possible confusion, er is not related to ER, or sadly any royalty either, although I did once meet Prince Charles:)

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Iris (24th Jun 2022 - 12:16:52)

Russ you are starting to make very rude personal comments. I did not speak at the meeting, which was to talk about traffic problems, not major development. What the Chair had done was to speak to Hampshire Highways who told him there was no money forthcoming from the local authorities to improve the traffic situation in the square. The suggestion came up to pedestrianise the square as in future we are supposed to walk and cycle everywhere. That is why the local authorities do not want to build bypasses. Who will be able to afford petrol anyway?

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Tm (24th Jun 2022 - 14:15:32)

Most of the South Downs National Park or most UK National Parks for that matter are not publicly owned land, but they are protected areas often privately owned that form a character which is very special, to be protected for generations of residents, visitors and wildlife and development is guided by conservation, sustainable use, access for walkers, cyclists and riders along accessible routes etc. so while maybe a bypass wouldn't be out of the question I guess it would need an especially strong argument to succeed.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- ER (24th Jun 2022 - 16:57:17)

Well Iris sorry if you thought my statement was rude not meant to be . You have replied to russ have no idea who that is but assume you do. Yes it was a traffic meeting but that land goes hand in hand with development and as all infrastructure now has to be paid for by development that is the hole point no development unless we get infrastructure ie roads. That was the reason of the meeting to try and elevate the traffic in the square ie again relief roads.And that land would make a good start. We have got to have houses so have them where we can gain some infrastructure. NOT as has been happening large developments as the one in longmoor road by Wimpy with NO infrastructure for liphook. If you look at nearly all the developments in the past 10 15 years very little gains for liphook if any. Look at the 63 houses built by wimpy in Canada way no infrastructure only more traffic through the square. I am sorry if this sounds gloomy but this has been going on to long if we don’t make a stand now liphook will be lost. As said EHDC don’t seem to care recommending the chicken farm for development you couldn’t make it up what are they thinking about.All that traffic through the square. I love liphook could not live anywhere else and it breaks my hart to see what’s happening.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Iris (25th Jun 2022 - 12:46:34)

I get it E R, that your interpretation of the purpose of the meeting was that the discussion should be all about a relief road through Bohunt Manor land. Not every one thinks that traffic would lessen if 600 more houses are built, to pay for this road, some of the inhabitants of the houses would still have to turn into the square itself for example driving to Passfield and environs or even driving through Newtown road to reach Sainsburys or Haslemere. We are being encouraged to drive less. I imagine any road through the proposed Bohunt land may not even be a public road. Once developers tot up the cost to them of building an estate with 40 percent affordable / and or social housing do you think they will want to spend money building public roads? The most they would probably do would be put in a roundabout such as Oak Park did.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- ER (25th Jun 2022 - 18:27:26)

Iris no I thought the meeting was about traffic through the square and how to try and make it better. I think that means getting traffic around the square. How we do that is the hot potato. Even if we go all electric we still have vehicles to divert around the square. The big question is DO we want to save our historic centre or just sit back and let the traffic do it’s worst. You seem to not want any form of ring relief road call it what you like to try and get traffic around our square. I on the other hand would love to save our square . And as I have said we are going to have to have a fair few houses in the next 10 to 20 years and as I have said no houses with out infrastructure ie roads I think you missed that. You keep on about 600 houses on bohunt but how about 600 to 800 at highfild which has been put forward with no infrastructure?? . As I have said we must think to the future I for one would much rather have 600 houses on bohunt WITH a road and only with a road as it is spare unused farm land than 800 with nothing. We have to start somewhere but let’s do it right not like the past.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Iris (25th Jun 2022 - 21:23:48)

Hi ER, in my previous post I highlighted the danger of believing a developer who promises things before getting planning permission. I have my doubts that this road would be installed and paid for by a developer? how are you 100 per cent sure they would? there is a also the point that the Highfield lane development of 800 houses, apart from the 100 houses on the chicken farm, was already rejected by EHDC, so it is not a done deal, going through with permission if Bohunt did not, 9or visa versa, planning is not that cut and dried. it is never either or, it is to do with what the planners at both relevant authorities think suitable or not at the time they are planning for the next 20 years, or in the absence of a current plan, what is on offer at the time, it is never either one thing or the other, it could be both or neither.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- ER (25th Jun 2022 - 21:45:44)

Well Iris we agree on one thing don’t trust developers or councils. We have got to go with the best for liphook which I have said before. EHDC are pushing the chicken farm which is totally out of order. You still will not admit that bohunt is by far the best deal on the table if the developers play ball . But we must watch them like a hawk. Anyway nothing will probably happen if it does it probably will be as before not listening to local people.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- D (26th Jun 2022 - 07:46:20)

Iris, previous to the Highfield Proposal which would see all the fields each side of Devils Lane built on, I do believe the chicken farm proposal was rejected in its own right a few years before.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- M (26th Jun 2022 - 10:21:40)

It was obvious from the NDP meeting about traffic in the village that nothing will be done unless a developer builds a new road.

The only development that "suggests" a new road, the now called Westfield Park scheme between Portsmouth and Longmoor roads, would mean circa 600 new homes. This scheme would only provide a road to primarily feed the new development, but also give an option to get between the Portsmouth Road and Longmoor Road without using The Square.

The old Atkins Report (now supposedly out of date) concluded that the majority of traffic at peak times was locally generated and was trying to move from Haslemere Road to Headley Road (travelling to and from the Junior Schools??). It can be suggested that any new road between Portsmouth and Longmoor Roads is unlikely to have much affect on that traffic and therefore the congestion is still likely to happen......and of course we end up with another 600 homes!

There is no remedy to our twice daily hour long congestion (only in term time) without spending what could be 10's millions of pounds, when that money doesn't exist and the powers that be have no appetite to spend it anyway.
Unfortunately the residents of Liphook will have to put up with the problem for many decades to come.....or like I do don't travel through the Square between 8 and 9 and again between 3.30 and 4.30!

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Iris (26th Jun 2022 - 11:09:37)

D, after the chicken farm proposal was rejected it was re - submitted in a slightly altered form with fewer houses, and this was accepted by EHDC into their local plan for the future. I get that you have a house on the Berg estate D, and do not want the close development. There have been several cases of plans being rejected then re submitted and accepted. EHDC are now going to re do their local plan, and by the autumn they will probably be faced with shedloads more sites to choose from. The government are trying to encourage people to drive less, as M says, the school traffic in the Headley Road and Haslemere Road will not change if a road is built from Longmoor Road to the portsmouth Rd. Possibly also by then new national planning edicts will be in force too by then to work around. Relying on " it is not what liphook people want " is not going to cut the mustard.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- ER (26th Jun 2022 - 11:20:59)

M just stand in the square more or less any time you will see the traffic is continuous on ALL the roads especially Portsmouth road. The Bohunt Northcote development would make a considerable difference as long as they put in the roads which they say they will. So that Bohunt school can have a new rear entrance and close the one in Longmoor road. No Bohunt traffic through the square busses all access of the Portsmouth and Longmoor roads. Traffic wishing to go to sainsburys from the A3 would come off at the Longmoor junction up the relief road new roundabout on Portsmouth road and up around Newtown . All the traffic which is very heavy coming up the Portsmouth road that wants to access the A 3 will use the relief road . We have GOT to grab the opportunity when it’s there no like oak park where EHDC let us down badly by not implementing the option 4 link road.We have got look forward to the future.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- M (26th Jun 2022 - 16:52:48)

Not sure where you've got your information from about the Chiltley/Chicken Farm proposals.
As far as I'm aware the original proposal for 100 homes was refused by EHDC. The developer went to appeal and that to was refused.
EHDC included the site in their Draft Local Plan for 100 homes (no actual planning application but a site for 100 homes).
EHDC have now gone back to their Draft Local Plan and removed all sites and are reassessing them all under the new planning rules from Government, and to see if they can find more sites for the increase in housing numbers they've been given/or are expecting to be given.
Can you enlighten us about the application for less homes? I can't find anything.
We, the residents of Liphook have nothing to "grab by the horns!"
Our local authorities (SDNP and EHDC) will decide where to put more houses and we, unfortunately, won't be able to stop it.
The NDP will have no teeth to stop sites that are allocated by the two higher planning authorities, sad I know but that's English planning rules.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Jimmy (26th Jun 2022 - 16:53:51)

Would this new relief road be a proper road or end up a 30mph road though a housing estate like the bordon relief road

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- ER (26th Jun 2022 - 19:17:47)

M I think I said grab the opportunity if that’s what you’re referring to . That land has had developed plans put forward with roads and lots more infrastructure in the past only to be thwarted by Parrish council and EHDC. All has changed now we hope the developers will re apply and perhaps with the support of the liphook community we will get something done . Because all the questionnaires and surveys the liphook people have time and again told the powers to be that is where they want houses to be built with the infrastructure that’s been offered. Surly it’s better to have something rather than nothing. Cannot see why you would build houses somewhere else without any gains doesn’t make sense..

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- D (26th Jun 2022 - 20:39:14)

Iris, believe me, I do not live on the Berg estate. Far from it both geographically and financially. I couldn't even afford one of the cheap ones near the chicken farm.

But I am flattered that you think I do, thankyou.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- D (26th Jun 2022 - 21:05:41)

At a push I just may be able to afford the mattress that was dumped on the side of Devils Lane some weeks ago. Anything more than that, no chance.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Iris (26th Jun 2022 - 22:03:21)

M, I do recall though the chicken farm application was originally for 120 houses. Yes it was rejected (as I agreed it was) but then included in the EHDC local plan. Now it is all up for grabs again we both agree. I think though E R you have always tried to say ‘ “Everyone in Liphook wants Bohunt to be developed.”! This has never been the case, the planning, as M rightly says has always been decided by either EHDC or the SDNPA. It also appears the road through Bohunt could be a residents access only road not a genuine bypass as ER believes.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- M (27th Jun 2022 - 09:59:43)

Iris, the original planning application was for 100 houses and has never changed from that, including EHDC latest site allocation.
ER, with the Westlands Park site being in the SDNP it would go towards their housing allocation and not EHDC's. EHDC will need to find sites for more housing so it would be likely Liphook would end up with up to 1000 more houses should all sites go ahead. Does Liphook need that and could it's infrastructure cope? Even with the road from Portsmouth Road to Longmont Road!
I fully support the development in the SDNP if......and it's a big if..... Liphook needs another 600 houses, all the developer promises actually happen and Liphook see no more development on other inappropriate sites. I'm not sure that will happen so would be very cautious to say "grab it while we can" as I think we could get our hands burnt!

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- BB (27th Jun 2022 - 11:00:35)

Mr & Mrs Well-Heeled of Liphook and Bramshott attended this event in force.

Kevin Wyeth did a good job of explaining that the days of inexpensive limitless motorised car-transport are over; sadly many in the audience were unreceptive to ideas for their use of bus, train, bike and on-foot - leaving the Volvo on the driveway.

The Question and Answer part of the agenda was spoiled by Mr & Mrs W-H braying their personal financial interest.
Kevin was right to end the event when he did and I doubt he will bother to hold another of this type.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- er (27th Jun 2022 - 11:47:03)

Well sadly I wasn't there BB but from your much appreciated account above, it sounds as if I missed a damn good show, apparently some people turned up to a public meeting and dared to express their concerns, the chair (I'm presuming) then patiently explained his views on sustainable alternative transport and it seems they didn't agree with each other, the people you call 'Well-Heeled' with their Volvos 'brayed' some more, so the meeting was wrapped up in exasperation, perhaps noone will bother again!

Oh dear, (allowing for any possible error or 'partisanship' in the telling), I give you local government at it's best, it reminds me of what Churchill is (alleged) to have said:

'The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter!'

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Iris (27th Jun 2022 - 12:23:17)

Do not know if you were being ironic ER but BB is talking about the meeting on traffic last week which you say you did attend as you accused me of talking too much during this meeting.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Penny Williamson (27th Jun 2022 - 12:33:09)

Churchill also said that "Democracy was the worst form of Government until you look at all the others."

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- ER (27th Jun 2022 - 12:42:49)

Well as I started this thread I’m going to sum up before I bow out. M your last entry I totally agree very good if the development at bohunt can be included in our quota for liphook then it has to be the best place to build as long as we get all of the infrastructure offered. It’s not rocket science if you look at a map of liphook there is nowhere else that a road could put in with houses. If the bohunt action group had not got their way we would have it all a long time ago. They did liphook a very bad service. But it all comes down to do you want to save as much of liphook as possible. I for one cannot see the point of building houses on land that doesn’t help liphook or actually compounds the problem. Surly you have to try and get the best for liphook. It seems Iris is of the.mind no development on bohunt nothrcote land come what may even if it benefits liphook but she doesn’t answer the question where else do you put houses that doesn’t put more traffic through the square.. so I suppose the debate goes on everybody have different options the trouble is it’s been going on to long and we are still suffering yesterday was a prime example traffic through the square continuously mostly from Goodwood festival if an event like that all that far away can make such an impact on liphook it says it all.Liphook seems to be a magnet for the A3 . The Neighbourhood Plan is supposed to be for the liphook people to have their say and plan for the Future so what good is it if they are not listening to all their hard work for nothing.Signing of because I suspect a lot of people will have a lot to say.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- D (27th Jun 2022 - 13:21:30)

I have neither the knowledge, education or wealth of others on this website but here's a thought. As Liphook now sits within TWO planning authorities, we could end up with six hundred homes on the chicken farm/Devils Lane site.......and another six hundred on the Westlands site. Oh well.....

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Iris (27th Jun 2022 - 21:53:33)

D you are correct to think 1200 homes in Liphook could be the result if both sites were chosen. ER, Liphook does have a housing figure attached to it from EHDc but does not have a housing figure attached to it by the SDNPA, they have housing numbers given to them by the government to cover a huge geographical area, stretching from Lewes in one corner to the Alice Holt forest in another. They allocate their housing mainly where the large urban settlements are totally within the Park eg Midhurst, Lewes, Newhaven, Petersfield. Liphook as an urban settlement is not within the Park, only an undeveloped area on the periphery of Liphook. It is against their policies to develop an area which does not have housing density. They have no interest in whether Liphook square needs a relief road because the square is not in the National Park area.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Rm (27th Jun 2022 - 22:07:16)

Looking through this post Iris you have just hit the nail on the head the national park have split our Parrish in two and don’t care what damage it has done. That’s what the government are looking into.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- D (27th Jun 2022 - 22:47:55)

Iris, I am not for one minute questioning your knowledge. But if I were on the Downs planning committee where would I rather put six hundred houses. In the "heart" of the national park (their terminology, not mine) such as Midhurst or Petersfield, or on a remote outpost of the park that isn't geographically part of the downs anyway such as Liphook.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Iris (28th Jun 2022 - 08:49:06)

Hi D, think you are missing my main point which is that the SDNPA do not have to find 600 houses for Liphook. They do not even have to find any housing numbers for Liphook. most of Liphook is not in the Park. It is the developers idea of needing 600 in order to make enough profit to build the development. Even EHDC do not have to find 600 houses for Liphook. Also it is not a question of how many people object or support a development, the planning system is far more involved than that. Even the Local Plan and neighbourhood plans have to go through rigorous examination processes with multiple authorities and agencies before they are adopted.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- M (28th Jun 2022 - 10:47:50)

You're quite right Iris EHDC and SDNP do not have a specific housing number for Liphook, they only have a district wide number to fulfill and choose sites to allocate to meet that number.
EHDC and SDNP could easily decide to allocate any number of houses to Liphook should they wish, once they have done due process and the site's meet all the criteria set out in their plans.
Kevin, I believe, did mention that the SDNP do need to find additional sites for more homes in their next review so it wouldn't be unreasonable to imagine they would allocate a 600 home site on the edge of the SDNP adjacent to good amenities and infrastructure that the developer is itching to go ahead with.
Exactly the same for EHDC, we may have a couple more sites allocated in their new local plan compared to the most recent draft.
If either of the planning authorities allocate sites they overule anything the NDP might allocate.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- D (28th Jun 2022 - 11:50:55)

Wasn't the six hundred homes issue resolved with the Horndean extension and Bordon?

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Iris (28th Jun 2022 - 15:00:01)

The latest from Michael Gove is that he is not a big fan of housing numbers. In fact the number of houses actually built last year fell far short of the figure they promised to build which I believe was 300,000 nationwide.
M if you have read or understood the SDNPA adopted plan, you will see that it is landscape led, not housing number led. Until there is some kind of press release or similar on their website, it is merely conjecture that the SDNPA have to find housing numbers for Liphook. Kevin merely said the SDNPA have been told they will be given another amount of houses find. He did not say they had been given a figure to expand Liphook.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- M (28th Jun 2022 - 16:47:41)

Iris i totally agree with you. My post said both EHDC and SDNP have a housing number to meet district wide, I said nothing about either having a housing number for Liphook.
This is actually the problem as Liphook, including the NDP, doesn't know where it stands and how many houses were likely to have allocated to us from either authority over the next 5 years.
If Gove isn't a fan of housing numbers why are EHDC having to rethink their Local Plan to accommodate all the new climate rules and housing numbers they gave been issued?
Kevin's words at the meeting were that the SDNP are expecting an increase in housing numbers to have to accommodate in their 5 year review in a couple of years time. Who is issuing these increased numbers if not the government?

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- M (28th Jun 2022 - 17:12:45)

Unfortunately no. EHDC have gone back a couple of years in their local plan due to the new planning policies and housing numbers from central government.
That means all allocated sites have been removed from the plan and every site, and possibly more sites, will be re-evaluated and a new draft plan published with new (or possibly the same) sites allocated.
Everything EHDC have done will need to be redone, including all the public consultation and events.
As I said to Iris it leaves Liphook (and all the other towns and villages controlled by EHDC Planning) in limbo not knowing how many houses to expect over the next 20 years.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Rm (28th Jun 2022 - 17:16:02)

Iris my goodness what else will you come up with to stop ANY development on bohunt northcott land . You dodge the question where would you put any house’s allocated to liphook that would not make the traffic situation worse in the square . I realise you don’t think the square is up to much with your statement save what. But that was what the meeting was all about suggestions to help to ease traffic in the square you have not made any suggestions quite the opposite just trying to stop any developments to help liphook. M has pointed out that some of your statements are not quite right. You are digging deep very much like a politician.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- iris (28th Jun 2022 - 21:20:28)

R M as M says we are in limbo at the moment. The SDNPA do not have to review their plan for another 2 years, pointless to say who is right and wrong in planning terms, all we have is opinion and hopefully educated guesswork, I have always tried to read the EHDC and SDNPA planning websites very carefully. Developers will always have a wishlist.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Rm (28th Jun 2022 - 21:58:18)

Sorry Iris dodged the question again . Where Would you put houses to benefit liphook and help the traffic problems in the square. Straight question.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Tm (29th Jun 2022 - 10:03:29)

RM, just a point of note, you asked where the houses should be put to benefit Liphook and traffic in the Square, surely the answer to your question is no more large developments will benefit the village, they will benefit the developers, so maybe you should have asked where is the least worse place? One more big new estate without proper town facilities is too much, we should stand together on that or divided we fall, they count on people becoming fatigued arguing the toss, the 'oh well at least it's not overlooking my back garden' mentality they use to wear communities down.

A promised road through the new estate won't do anything much, if at all to improve traffic in the Square, even assuming it ever happens, each application should therefore be considered only on receipt of plans setting out in binding terms what they and/or the council are prepared to offer the town, how THEY will fund it, money on the table or like the magic disappearing village swimming pool that was promised, blink and it will be gone, but the houses will still appear, so no money, no binding agreement from the developers= no consent from the village, let's stand united!

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Iris (29th Jun 2022 - 10:51:37)

I agree with T M, you are asking the wrong question. There are at present no housing numbers to find. Why should improvements to the traffic in the square be tied to housing figures? Building another road is not the answer and I doubt the SDNPA think it is either. In the future we are all being encouraged to walk or cycle everywhere. B B earlier in the thread hit the nail on the head. The investors in Bohunt Manor need to see a return out of their off shore fund in the virgin isles, we should not just accept large estates in Liphook when there are plenty being built in the rest of EHDC.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- dave (29th Jun 2022 - 11:57:02)

Knowing a few of the contributors on this topic it is obvious that most that support further development in the village have a direct or at least indirect financial benefit.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- D (29th Jun 2022 - 13:12:29)

"Encouraged to walk or cycle". How many people live within cycling distance of work? Ludicrous. I look forward to seeing the A3 full of cyclists commuting between here and London.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Rm (29th Jun 2022 - 13:27:37)

Ok least sites for liphook if we get a allocation of 600 houses. Chicken farm. Highfield . Panally farm. Popes field. None of those offers anything for liphook. So we are left with bohunt that will take 600 houses and will give us some benefit’s. Oh you say we don’t want big site’s so a lot of small ones dotted all over. Again with no benefit’s. I totally agree we must make the developers do what they say some how . I totally refute the argument that a road through bohunt won’t help the traffic situation in the square. But again we must turn bohunt school around and shut the longmoor road entrance. All access to the school from Portsmouth road and the roundabout in longmoor road. I cannot get my head around the statement that any houses built in the national parks do not count to our quota. If that’s the case what about all the towns and. Villages all in the park as petersfield I think that is not correct. If liphook was all in the park all the land would be potential building land. But if Iris is right none of this matters she says EHDC takes no notice of any surveys or questionnaire or the neighbourhood plan so it looks as we are at the mercy of the people at EHDC who no best. God help us.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Iris (30th Jun 2022 - 11:42:01)

I know we have talked around this subject for ever and perhaps best left not to post anymore. I understand what you are saying that if Liphook were totally within the park we would get masses and masses more housing. That is not quite how it works as they allow amounts of houses on “ Brownfield sites” the king George hospital site in Midhurst being a good example, they converted the hospital and built new in the grounds. If the Bohunt manor building were part of the deal they would probably allow that to be converted and some new housing along side. The Bohunt Manor building is in different ownership to the land. Totally building 600 new housing on previously undeveloped land would probably still not be accepted even if Liphook were totally in the National Park. You could always ask your SDNPA representative about this who is Debbie Kernow Ford county councillor for Liphook.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- D (30th Jun 2022 - 13:33:53)

Though nothing to do with Mrs. Kernow Ford, I had communications with the county council on a totally unrelated issue some time ago. There was a definite attitude of "we're in charge, what we say goes, we're not interested in your opinion". I was very disappointed in them, though not as disappointed as a member of Bramshot and Liphook Parish Council who told me to "get a life" on this website. Nice to know the parish council read this, shame they don't engage constructively.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Rm (30th Jun 2022 - 15:33:59)

No Iris I said if we were all in the park then all land would be equal. That doesn’t mean masses of houses no different to now only instead of all houses having to be crammed into one half of our Parrish all land could be considered and the best development for liphook could come forward. You keep on about midhurst totally different scenario we don’t have anymore brown field sites all have been built on .The SDNPA are supposed to support local communities but in liphooks case they are not doing that. We have the centre the square 500 mts from the boundary an historic conservation area the other side of the boundary is little used farm land that could make an enormous difference to the huge problem of the increased through traffic in the square wanting to access the A3 . The national park big wigs should be taken to task for not engaging with the community. They should not have so much power to go against public opinion they should not have the final say. I am all for them controlling our open park lands like the South Downs etc but not devastating community’s. Iris please stop being like a politician quoting figures and assuming what the SDNPA will do. Just because they do something somewhere else doesn’t mean that has to happen in liphook we must fight them to get a much better deal for liphook.Iris just say if you don’t want any development on bohunt manor come what may that’s your prerogative.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- M (30th Jun 2022 - 15:57:04)

I've been told many times by different councillors from different levels of authority that if Liphook was all within the SDNP then the original planning application for Bohunt Manor would already of been built and if Liphook was fully outside the SDNP then again it would already of been built.
The Park boundary is Liphook's biggest nemesis.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Penny Williamson (30th Jun 2022 - 16:41:12)

M The first sensible post in this debate. Succinct and to the point not like the inane and inaccurate ramblings of some previous posts on this Thread.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- D (1st Jul 2022 - 07:15:26)

On the contrary, Penny Williamson. I found it a very informative, topical subject which affects all Liphook residents. It is not out of the question that the annexation of part of Liphook into the Downs national park could result in the exact opposite of what those whom engineered this wanted to achieve. The Downs national park could end up using Liphook as a dustbin to satisfy their government quota of housing and we get the same amount from e.h.d.c. as well.

But as you say, it is all very inane and rambling.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Tm (1st Jul 2022 - 12:48:53)

However, Penny, let's take a quick look at your comment!

IMHO your comment should win a prize for most unhelpful post of the thread! It was presented initially as a nice compliment, but was actually then quickly a completely unnecessary backhanded slap to all the other passionate posters on both sides of the debate!

If you think a little bit more about M's post which appeared to impress you so much over all the other 'rambling' scribblings, it appears actually to be quite openly presented as hearsay, no?

Based upon the posters own recollection of various conversations with unnamed officials at unstated levels who could not possibly (one would hope) actually know the theoretical outcome of currently impossible planning submissions!

Penny, therefore it was a soundbite that won it for you apparently unquestioningly, over all the other passionate and sometimes detailed arguments and/or evidence, I guess that proved a little too much, we see this a lot, I sometimes despair at the attention span of the average human!😂😂😂

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Iris (1st Jul 2022 - 17:11:03)

I agree that the SDNPA boundary has caused problems for the EHDC planning councillors and planners. I expect the councillors that M has spoken to over the years have been the EHDC councillors not the SDNPA councillors or SDNPA planning team.
I can still remember a few years ago when the whole of the EHDC planning committee were sent for “ re training” and not allowed to decide any planning applications until they understood certain issues, one of the issues was that they could not continue to refuse the Oak Park development on the basis that the committee at EHDC preferred the houses to be built in the SDNPA. ( A different planning authority).

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Rm (1st Jul 2022 - 18:56:23)

Yes Iris the SDNPA have caused a lot of damage in liphook EHDC wanted to put a road and houses on bohunt northcott land to benefit liphook the powers to be who don’t live in liphook have not listened to the liphook people . The SDNPA planning councillors as you call them are massively out of touch with the liphook problem with TRAFFIC. The government should step in when there is a problem like liphooks the SDNPA should not have all the say on planning. I suspect you will quote more figures and side step the real issues you would make a very good MP.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- M (2nd Jul 2022 - 08:33:11)

Tm, a bit hard on Penny? I have no problems with others agreeing or disagreeing with my comments but no need to ridicule them.
Tm you may think my comments are hearsay but I know they are not. They were made to me at various events by both Parish, EHDC and SDNP councillors and planners. Anyone who has taken an active interest in the planning situation of Liphook over the last 10 years knows my comments are correct, as they to would have heard them to.
I won't name names as the comments were off the record but did take place in public events.
Iris, I don't believe EHDC ever rejected the Oak Park development, in fact they were always very proactive for both phases. To get it passed they even pushed for the ineffectual Atkins Report to show that they were thinking about Liphook's traffic and how to cure it!
The SDNP boundary is the cause of all the disagreement and inappropriate development sites in Liphook. If Liphook were all within or all outside the Park then there wouldn't be such polarised views, and planning decisions could be made on a level playing field for the good of the community. Instead we have two planning authorities with different priorities fighting each other with Liphook stuck in the middle. The SDNP appear uninterested in discussing the situation with EHDC who have had to resort to letters to the Government to try and overcome the issue of split parishes. A single parish should never have two planning authorities.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Rm (2nd Jul 2022 - 11:04:36)

Spot on M very well said a positive post .

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Iris (2nd Jul 2022 - 13:37:13)

I was at the EHDC committee meeting M, about Oak Park, and I believe you spoke against this M, at that same meeting. It was the committee of planning councillors who voted against the officers report/ advice, but after that they were asked to go for re training, as it gave Oak Park developers a reason to go to appeal on their application. It costs a lot of money to the taxpayer because EHDC had to employ a specialist barrister at the appeal to defend the councillors stance against the development against the advice of officers. I am sure it is still on record somewhere.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- M (2nd Jul 2022 - 17:30:09)

Sorry Iris but you've the wrong person. Never been to any of the EHDC planning meetings, only a couple of Local Parish Planning meetings and the local events run by EHDC. I take great interest and read all I can but council meetings are usually a waste of time, decisions have been made by then.
I think the Oak Park development is fine as it doesn't really generate much traffic crossing the square, but it should of included a road between Headley and Longmoor Roads, EHDC let Liphook down there.
My understanding was EHDC were all for the development, as you say the officers said it was OK and the Leader of the council, Ferris Cowper?, was adamant it should be approved.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- steve miller (2nd Jul 2022 - 18:31:05)

To avoid any confusion I would like to point out that Oak Park is technically just the Taylor Wimpy estate or to put it another way phase 1 of the Lowsley Farm development. This scheme was never actually rejected by the EHDC planning committee at either outline or detailed stages.
EHDC did initially reject the second phase known as Maple Walk but a compromise was agreed with Redrow who are building this phase before it actually reached the appeal stage.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Iris (2nd Jul 2022 - 18:52:09)

Ok sorry M if I am wrong assuming your identity yes the officers and Ferris were in favour but the councillors were not as I have already mentioned.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Tm (2nd Jul 2022 - 19:26:53)

Ok M, you say your comments are not hearsay because you know it, but you won't name the people you ascribe their comments to, therefore what is known to you is hearsay for me when you pass it on like that!

M, you say I 'ridiculed' Penny. Actually I critiqued her comment, where she said:

'M The first sensible post in this debate. Succinct and to the point not like the inane and inaccurate ramblings of some previous posts on this Thread.'

I think the saying 'if you can't stand the heat...' comes to mind, I said the comment was unhelpful, ooh!

Actually I think Penny has been on here far longer than me, arguing and being at times rather opinionated and to her credit has shown she has a thick skin on the comeback, not a wallflower that lady, so no need to feel all protective mate, but good on you, I have no problem with like minded individuals closing ranks on me!

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- M (3rd Jul 2022 - 09:31:11)

Tm, glad we can agree to disagree on your "Critique" of Penny's post. I stand by my impression it ridiculed her short post. Maybe reread your post again, particularly the last line.

Re: Neighbourhood plan
- Tm (4th Jul 2022 - 00:29:39)

M, I'm happy to agree to disagree, it's a fair ending!

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