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Talkback is for the residents and businesses in Liphook to voice their views and opinions about local issues and events.


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Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Local Resident (18th Dec 2020 04:28:02)

I regularly cycle from Liphook to Passfield and back. Sometimes onto Bordon.

It is usually a pretty horrible experience - van drivers lead the list of people who seem to want me dead. Leaving no sort of distance when they pass me, cutting me up, overtaking me on blind bends etc etc.

It does make me wonder why there isn't a cycle path linking the two towns. Particularly as Bordon is such a boom town these days. And Liphook has the railway station. There must be loads of people who would bike between the two towns rather than drive if there was a cycle route? And we all need to get out of our cars to ‘Save the World’.

Does anyone know if this has it ever been discussed - in the HCC/EHDC 'corridors of power'?

I am sure the answer is going to be along the lines of 'the Council has no money, it would be massively expensive, cyclists don't pay any road tax, you are an eccentric idiot who just needs to buy a car'.

But I just wondered if this had ever been considered?

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (18th Dec 2020 08:03:16)

Doesn't the Longmoor Loop take you to Bordon?

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- S (18th Dec 2020 09:34:14)

Excellent idea. Both councils should look at finding this. Didn’t Rishi announce some cash for promoting cycling a while back?

The loop is gravel at best so not great for certain bikes. To and from the loop is mainly muddy track.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- James (18th Dec 2020 09:38:08)

D,

yes longmoor can get you to bordon however it takes longer and is sometimes closed to the public. this person is also going to Passfield

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Jen (18th Dec 2020 09:56:11)

Part of the problem is that the traffic on the B3004 as it passes through Hill House Hill and Passfield Common is moving far too fast, unimpeded by any road furniture.

I was walking along the pavement between Dryden Way and Burgh Hill Road the other day and it did not feel safe. Although the pavement is very narrow in places, there was no noticeable slowing down of any of the vehicles coming up behind me, passing just a couple of feet to my right at 40+mph. I can only imagine what it's like for a cyclist trying to keep to the edge of the road when being overtaken at close proximity by speeding vehicles.

If the speed limit were to be reduced to 30mph (or, better still, 20mph) and several chicanes and/or traffic islands installed, it would go some way to slowing the traffic down and making cycling and walking a safer and more pleasant experience. This would, hopefully, then encourage more people to leave their cars behind and walk or cycle instead.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (18th Dec 2020 11:00:27)

The original question was "is there a cycle route from Liphook to Bordon." There is but this doesn't seem to be good enough. How many bicycles per hour use the Liphook to Passfield road? Over a twenty four hour period it probably isn't even one per hour. What a waste of money that would be. Is the lady cycling to Passfield on a day like this? Probably not.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- F (18th Dec 2020 11:38:14)

I don’t cycle it as it’s too dangerous. I would if there was a distinct cycle path.... must be a few like me...

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Charlie (18th Dec 2020 11:55:55)

When cycling from Liphook to Passfield, I always use Tunbridge Lane, a quiet country lane that runs parallel to the B3004, Headley Road. Depending on where in Liphook you are starting from this can be accessed either through Bramshott Village, or by turning right just after crossing the A3 bridge on the Headley Road.

If you are going further on from Passfield, and on to Bordon you can use Tulls Lane, and then just a short stretch of the B3004 before you arrive at Lindford, which has a wide road with traffic calming.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (18th Dec 2020 13:08:58)

Excellent idea, Charlie. They are indeed very nice routes and perfect for cyclists.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- James (18th Dec 2020 15:01:46)

D,

You say there is a cycle path, where is this? Or are you once again refering to longmoor camp/ranges?

To get to the ranges, you have to use a bridleway, this bridleway is uneven and very dangerous for cyclists, there is a ditch that runs down the centre of it! And even then if it gets muddy you are in an even worse position.

The ranges is also not always open to the public which is what I said earlier, it belongs to the MOD and the track is not suitable for certain bikes such as road bikes.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (18th Dec 2020 15:25:57)

I never said there is a cycle path to Bordon, I said the Longmoor Loop will take you to Bordon. If a bit of mud is a problem then maybe the clean, mettled Headley Road is a better option.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- James (18th Dec 2020 18:09:12)

D,

Look at the below quote:
"Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (18th Dec 2020 �11:00:27)

The original question was "is there a cycle route from Liphook to Bordon." There is but this doesn't seem to be good enough."

It is not a bit of mud, you have clearly not walked or cycled it. This thread is about Headley Road and what can be done to make it safer, such as putting in a cycle path.

Like people have said, if there was a cycle path people would use it more often as it is safer.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (18th Dec 2020 20:14:21)

Well, James, we are in a pandemic which shows no sign of ending any time soon and it is costing the world a lot of money (that thing you'll have to work for when you leave school.) Do you really think there is any spare cash for arty farty cycle lanes which would only be used by a small amount of people for a short time in the summer? Why don't you do a study and see how many use the cycle lane on the A3 between Liphook and Longmoor? Very few, it certainly didn't justify the cost. The only way this could come about would be through private funding. Given your obvious business genius why don't you form a group of like minded people to achieve this rather than your continual precocious nit-picking of other people's contributions? I'm sure there are many businessmen who would like to invest in you.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- HP (18th Dec 2020 23:15:16)

Wow. That escalated quickly.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Pete (19th Dec 2020 08:13:40)

My Goodness D you really can be rather condescending cant you. I'm assuming that when you said you didn't say there was a "cycle path" you are trying to catch James out as your actual words were "cycle route" are you a politician by any chance as this is exactly the type of language twisting they use. Your view is at best short sighted and cant help thinking your just on here to get a rise out of people and inflate even further your ego. i fail to see how he was nit picking any comments, you suggested the Bordon ranges he replied it is not suitable (rightly so). Your attitude is at best short sighted, of course if you did a study it would show low usage that is exactly the point it is currently too dangerous to use. I constantly see on here comments about how Bohunt children should walk or cycle to school to relieve the local traffic well this would certainly be a good start.
Lastly do you really think the use of the words arty farty to describe something, that would be a great infrastructure project improving peoples health and reducing local traffic, any gravitas. Personally I think it just adds to your pomposity.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Jennifer (19th Dec 2020 11:23:24)

Hear hear! Well said Pete!

The reason the so-called cycle paths are not very well used is that they are not safe to use.

Has anyone tried cycling the signposted cycle route from Hindhead to Liphook? It starts off OK but then, for some bizarre reason, the safe route ends and you are forced to use the A3 dual carriageway for the last mile or so. I discovered this last year when I was walking from Grayshott to Liphook and decided to follow the cycle path. The path does not go to Liphook, it abruptly ends at the A3 - yet in Hindhead it is clearly signposted as a cycle path to Liphook!

I've driven on several roads where there is a line painted on the road, supposedly to signify a cycle lane, but the roads are far too narrow to give sufficient space for both cyclists and cars. Those painted lines are just that: painted lines. If it became illegal for cars to drive over the lines, that would help somewhat, but the "cycle lanes" would need to be wider and the section of the road allocated to cars would be narrower, effectively turning most rural roads into single track roads.

Perhaps it would be better to have one side of the road devoted to cyclists and the other to cars, with a kerb dividing them, a low speed limit and allowing cars to drive over the kerb only when necessary (eg to pass vehicles approaching from the opposite direction or to turn off into a side road) and when safe to do so (ie when no cyclists in the cycle lane). Cars would give way to cyclists, in other words.

By the way, I feel I should add, I am not and never have been a cyclist. I don't own a bike.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- JBS (19th Dec 2020 14:06:38)

Tunbridge Lane is increasingly being used as a short cut by Bramshott residents to avoid the London Road route into Liphook. This would not be so bad but for their insistance of driving at the national speed limit (60 m.p.h.). Many of them do not seem to know the width of their vehicles, and so drive in the centre of the narrow road, thus restricting the space for cyclists and pedestrians! The 'school run' times seem worse in this respect.
For instance, Saturdays are quite safe for a walk or cycle along this road, as the traffic is much lighter.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Car driver (19th Dec 2020 15:37:05)

Just saying cyclists don’t pay any road tax every body else pays through the nose to use the roads. When I see cycle tracks with no cycles on them empty most of the time I think what a waste of money my money???.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Al (19th Dec 2020 17:21:59)

I think that would be a great idea, I travel to bordon to work but I'd love to cycle there in the summer, I certainly would not cycle in the dark along that road, even in my car I see so many idiots, especially speeding motorists. 40 mph means 40 but they don't do it.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (19th Dec 2020 17:57:06)

Pete, your spelling and grammar make your message hard to read but:-

The only cycle path I refer to is the one on the southbound A3 between Liphook and Longmoor. My workplace overlooks this and some days we see no cyclists on it at all. I work weekends as well so I can account for weekend pleasure cyclists as well as weekday commuters.

Yes, I did refer to the perimeter track around the ranges as a cycle route. Why? Because every day I see many cyclists on it, if access is so bad how did they get there? There is more than one access point to this track and not just the most inconvenient one James has chosen to highlight.

I stand by my remark that cycle paths on the Headley Road between Liphook and Bordon is an arty farty idea. Once I cycle to Bordon how do I get my shopping home? It would only be of use to a few pleasure cyclists for a short time in the summer.

I am not against cycle lanes, places like London where it is more efficient to cycle than sit in a taxi at 5mph, fine, they are being well used. They aren't in areas like ours.

As for your poor attempt at psycho-analysis, Pete, don't give up the day job.

Thanks awfully.

As for those who tell me I should "get out of my car to save the planet," I trust you have made the decision not to have children thereby exacerbating the problem.


Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- James (19th Dec 2020 21:36:58)

Oh D, you fail to not disappoint.

First of I am going to discuss your message directed to me then to Pete.

I am fully aware we are in a pandemic, and I do not appreciate you talking to me in a condescending manner, I feel like I talk to you with respect so I expect that in return. Just because I disagree with you on most occasions does not mean I disrespect you as you have done to me. Yes, I do think there is space for an 'arty farty cycle' lane! Given that we can spend 900k to paint a plane for Boris at the beginning of the first lockdown I believe a cycle path is well within the budget!

Why would I do a study for the cycle path on the A3 as that is not what we are on about!

[This bit is where you directed the message to Pete]

D, I have not chosen the most inconvenient route to pick, I picked the quickest and shortest.

Let's take a look at the route (route 1), it is 1.29km long and can be seen here: ibb.co/Xp2kt25

Let's take a look at an alternative route (route 2), it is 2.32km long and can be seen here: ibb.co/cFfjS0Y

The purpose of a cycle path is to avoid Headley Road, by putting in a designated space for cyclists. Route 1, is the most direct route to the ranges, whereas route 2, is not and involves a hill, and multiple sharp bends.

Finally, D, if you want to apologise for your total disrespect to me, you can do so either publically or by emailing me at jamesiamsorry@gmail.com - good email address right! Just for you D.

Thanks for making me laugh as usual.

PS. it is arty-farty, not 'arty farty' you forgot the hyphen before you start correcting people on their grammar.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (20th Dec 2020 00:31:27)

The queer thing is, James, that you would go to the trouble of looking up "arty farty" on the internet!

As a slang expression it is correct with or without the hyphen.

Given the origin of this thread I'm surprised you haven't researched how many accidents involving bicycles have been reported on the Headley Road in recent years. Maybe you have and the answer is "zero".

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (20th Dec 2020 09:03:03)

Referring to Car Driver's contribution, and Local Resident's comment of how the cost of said cycle lanes could be a prohibitive issue, I think a cycle tax is an excellent idea. Cyclists are a potential source of vast revenue for the treasury which could then fund these cycle lanes people think we so badly need. I don't think £100 per annum per unit unreasonable, coupled with an annual cyclist registration scheme whereby cyclists have a unique identification number displayed on the back of their hi-vis vest.

What a wonderful thing social media is, not only have we identified a problem (how to fund cycle lanes) we have, between us, found a solution as well. I'll be on the phone to my friend Damien first thing tomorrow.

Well done, chaps!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- James (20th Dec 2020 19:32:44)

D,

My apologies, if you are being informal, why does spelling matter for other people? After all, it is informal and was understandable.

D, unfortunately, they do not release statistics by road name, I did have a look! However, cyclists are 15 times more likely to be killed on the road than drivers, despite doing fewer miles. What statistics do you have for your defence D? None!

You mention taxing cyclists, why would you tax something with so many benefits and minor negatives? Cycling is not only good for an individual's physical health but mental health too, and has cost savings for the health services! Cycling also reduces pollution levels including pollution that has an impact on public health and climate change.

When INVESTMENT is made in safe and attractive cycling networks the positives are amplified and the negatives become even more minor!

Now, are you expecting young children to pay this 'tax'? That will directly affect minority communities such as those on a low income. Oh! You didn't think of that. What about bike-ability - which teaches young children how to ride a bike safely, are they expected to pay this 'tax'?

Oh, and most cyclists are motorists too.

car tax is based on emissions? Surely, we will use the same system as motor vehicles. Which means a bike has 0% emissions which means a grand total of £0 will be paid in tax.

D, you mention a hi-vis vest, it is not a legal requirement to wear a high-vis, are you going to make this a legal requirement? How are you going to make sure that all cyclists wear these vests? What about competitive cycling? Do they have to wear these vests too, which could make them lose their race, damaging the sports industry!

You sound like a conservative not surprised he is your friend.

Thanks for making me laugh as usual!

Oh and D, I am still waiting for that apology! jamesiamsorry@gmail.com

Also, try and get some statistics and facts! I'd love to read them!


Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (20th Dec 2020 22:12:56)

The queer thing is James, you have all these wonderful ideas but no idea how to pay for them. My suggestions would pay for cycle paths everywhere, I would add a compulsory third party insurance for cyclists as well which would raise even more revenue. High vis vests with a registration number a legal requirement you ask, yes. It's no different from displaying a number plate on a vehicle. It would improve cyclists behaviour as they would no longer have the anonymity they have now. I really don't see what your problem is with expecting people to take some responsibility.

How would YOU pay for cycle paths?

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- James (20th Dec 2020 23:46:04)

D,

A compulsory third part revenue would only benefit businesses, but I suppose that is the tory in you speaking. Not surprised!

You mention cyclists getting away with certain behaviour, please specify, what behaviour? What laws have you seen most cyclists break? Once again, I am looking for statistics and facts; something you are failing to provide.

Let's take a look at some numbers, Chris Boardman, a cycle campaigner for Greater Manchester noted it would cost approximately £1.5bn to deliver 1,800 miles of safer cycling. We only need approximately 10 miles! Do the maths D.

Thanks for making me laugh as usual!

Oh and D, I am still waiting for that apology! jamesiamsorry@gmail.com

Also, try and get some statistics and facts! I'd love to read them!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Pete (21st Dec 2020 07:57:23)

D- Thank you for proving my point.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (21st Dec 2020 08:19:42)

Fact:- Cycle lanes cost money, James has no plan how to pay for them. On the other hand, D has a viable, workable scheme to raise the funds for said cycle lanes.

It is a sad reflection of today's society that we constantly hear people demanding this and that yet those people never have a solution of how to fund their demands. I suppose there is always the magic money tree.

You will have to excuse me now, James. I have a phonecall to make then I'm going to drive to Bordon. Given how much it costs to keep a vehicle on the road there is no way I'm going to leave it sitting in the garage every day and use a bicycle. Strange how all these enthusiastic cyclists revert to their cars on days like this.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Joe (21st Dec 2020 09:07:53)

Hi James although I do not approve of the way D is engaging with you on this website I can give you my evidence re cyclists - riding 2 abreast on a single track road, whizzing around at speed on MOD owned land which has no footpaths or designated cycle routes, refusing to slow down on towpaths expecting walkers to leap sideways into the canal for them to get out of their way, riding without lights in the dark, speeding downhill around bends on narrow country lanes. Hurling abuse if you do not pass them in a car, ( this on a blind bend).

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (21st Dec 2020 09:28:29)

I know I risk public ridicule for my standard of mathematics, but based on James' figures, ten miles of cycle lane to Bordon and back would cost £833,333 (recurring.) I divided 1,500,000,000 (is that 1.5 billion?) by 18,000 then multiplied by 10. Sorry if I'm wrong but pompous, condescending working class oiks like me aint too good at maffs!

If it's as cheap as that I'm sure interested parties would have no objection to putting the money up themselves and maybe recoup their outlay by selling permits to use it. As James alluded, build a cycle lane and everyone will use it. Of course they will.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- James (21st Dec 2020 10:22:43)

Hi Joe,

I quickly want to go over your statements. Riding two abreast is not illegal, in some situations, it is safer to ride two abreast, especially if it is a single track with winds and bends. I have not seen anyone whizzing around on a bike on MOD land which has led to walkers leaping sideways, however just because I haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. So I will take your word for that. It is important to also note, that a cycle path will avoid the MOD land, making it safer for walkers. Riding without lights is illegal, I have unfortunately seen this, however, this is a MINORITY and does not reflect on everyone who rides a bike. I also have not seen any cyclist hurling abuse at a car for not passing, however, other factors may be included, the car getting too close to the cyclist or the car riding so close it is practically at the side of the bike, both have happened to me.

Hope this helps, as a counter-argument. Something D fails to do.

D, you may have heard of the Bramshott and Liphook Neighbourhood Development Plan on their interim report in March 2018, under AM2 Promote active travel modes (i.e. walking & cycling) across the parish. The aim of this policy is to increase the proportion of journeys being made by active travel.

One of the aims for this report states as follows: "Implement connected foot and cycle path network throughout parish and out to surrounding areas". Because of that, I do not think it is unreasonable that the developers should pay for this cycle path, if they want to build houses, they should also build the infrastructure that comes with that.

D, you say no-one will use them, I will, the OP probably will, and others.

Let's also talk about your scheme, for it to work, you will need to set up a new department in government, which will cost money, you will then have to find the staff and IT equipment which will cost money, then you will have to advertise which will cost money, then you have to enforce it which will cost money. It will also affect people from low-income families, the people who are at a higher risk of bad physical and mental health. D, your 'scheme' is flawed, it is a way to make money out of poor people, and give it to the people who run these businesses like your insurance company with the 'third party insurance' you suggested. You also failed to answer how this would work for people under the age of 16, as they do not have a national insurance number and therefore can not do many things such as pay tax, or the hundreds of thousands of children that do bike-ability to learn how to ride a bike safely.

You are also becoming condescending again, to step it back a notch.

Thanks for making me laugh as usual!

Oh and D, I am still waiting for that apology! jamesiamsorry@gmail.com

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Jennifer (21st Dec 2020 11:30:07)

Joe, on a single track road there would be insufficient clearance for a vehicle to overtake a bike safely, so it's probably safer for two cyclists to ride two abreast in that situation. If they moved into single file it would encourage following vehicles to attempt to overtake, which would be dangerous.
On narrow roads it's surely best simply to stay behind cyclists until the road widens to enable overtaking or until either you or the cyclist turns off the road or until the cyclist pulls into a lay-by to allow vehicles to overtake.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (21st Dec 2020 12:21:20)

The queer thing is James, every solution anybody comes up with, you always find another problem. You said yourself there are no reported accidents involving bicycles on the Headley Road in recent years which would suggest it is in fact a very safe road. So there's no need for a cycle path.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Joe (21st Dec 2020 15:24:07)

I do understand the cyclists think it safer for them to cycle two abreast but even when there are plenty of driveways to pull over into to let cars pass cyclists usually choose not to let cars past them even when there are safe areas. Journeys in cars can therefore become 40 mins in a lane usually taking 5 or 10 mins.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- James (21st Dec 2020 16:43:01)

D, the only queer thing is you. You think it is acceptable to charge people to use something, that has many positive impacts on society.

I did not say there were no reported incidents (not accidents that implies no one is at fault) on Headley Road, I did say there is no data available for roads. So instead, I supplied a statistic. Cyclists are 15x more likely to be killed than drivers, despite travelling fewer miles.

You have somehow gotten the idea that I supplied data for Headley road which I did not, which then apparently means it is a safe place for cyclists. Which it is not, and that is the purpose of this thread, and if you truly believe this then you would not be arguing with me on this matter about who would pay for it!

Thanks for making me laugh as usual!

Oh and D, I am still waiting for that apology! jamesiamsorry@gmail.com

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (21st Dec 2020 17:52:35)

Further to my comments about the cycle path on the southbound A3 between Liphook and Longmoor I can confirm that today not one bicycle (zero) used it. What a waste of public money that was. "Build the cycle lanes and people will use them"? Bo****ks!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (21st Dec 2020 18:01:35)

James, you have now invited me to correspond with you on your private e-mail address five times, I trust you won't make it six. I do not and never have corresponded with anyone on this website via private e-mail addresses. Please rest assured that I will not be contacting you on "@precociouspratt.com" any time soon. Thankyou.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Anon (21st Dec 2020 18:13:55)

Please refrain from calling people queer James, it is highly offensive

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Jake (21st Dec 2020 18:53:13)

*gets popcorn*

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Local Resident (21st Dec 2020 21:23:39)

I’ve been away with my work for a few days – and come back to these great responses. Which I have enjoyed reading.

My question was actually simply “Does anyone know if this has it ever been discussed” – by the Council, Sustrans etc. I guess the answer is ‘no’.

As for all the other comments – for sure the back route to Passfield Stores is an option for part of the route, albeit a longer detour. But the ride out of Liphook village is unavoidably hellish, and then from Passfield to Bordon is equally stressful.

And don’t get me started on Haslemere to Liphook – the main road is literally suicidal on a bike, while the back route via Hammer is OK, but the road is in such a dreadful state it does make it very hard. Bit like the back route to Passfield. This is the hidden challenge to cyclists in the UK – the poor condition of roads (potholes etc) which is generally not such a problem across the Channel.

And I would counter the position that a dedicated cycle route is not worth pursuing because no one cycles this route by saying this is classic ‘chicken and egg’. If EHDC build it, they will come, to paraphrase Kevin Costner.

Riding two abreast is actually about to become illegal. But again, for all regular cyclists, the dilemma is always whether to cycle hugging the kerb, in among the rubbish and manhole covers, or boldly – and legitimately – out towards the centre of the carriageway. Incurring the wrath of every driver…!

And finally, I guarantee I’m not a lady - I am an arty farty six foot four man. Hard to miss when on a bike, let’s be honest.

:)

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Jennifer (22nd Dec 2020 11:23:23)

I would be in favour of it being mandatory:
a) for cyclists to wear high viz clothing;
b) for bikes to have bright lights on at the front and back 24/7;
c) for cyclists to ride in the centre of the carriageway;
d) for cyclists to be prohibited from riding on major A-roads and dual carriageways, except in cases where a fully separated cycle lane exists.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- er (22nd Dec 2020 12:41:45)

Just because some government employed mammals have incited cyclists to 'own the road you have right of way' doesn't make it sensible for me to ride from Liphook to Bordon in the middle of the road, holding up all the cars, vans and lorries and making everybody else's journey last an hour because I'm on a bike.

Any more than if they said walk in the middle of the road where there is no pavement and make the cars go at walking pace!

As a sensible driver, cyclist and walker I try to stick to the appropriate area of the highway, give room for faster things to overtake and treat everybody with respect, this is the countryside not the urban city, we often have no option but to use private transport, when I worked near Winchester (because there were no jobs nearer) it took an hour or more to commute by car, if I had never overtaken cyclists it would have taken me nearer 3 hours each way or by train and bus I would have had no chance and the cost would have been prohibitive!

I agree that we need many more cycle paths but it will cost money, I would be happy to pay road tax as a cyclist, not for children but say anyone over the age of 18 (I do already as a car driver and even if we all go electric, they will still need to find a way to tax us) I know this is the only fair way to fund more segregated and direct cycle paths, nothing in life is free, someone has to pay!

PS Who thinks D and James sound like newly weds trying to agree the cleaning rosta?!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Penny Williamson (22nd Dec 2020 17:07:47)

I agree with everything Jennifer has said in particular with regard to high viz clothes and lights. However I cannot see what would be achieved by a cyclist cycling down the middle of a carriageway except to cause a major tailback of traffic. Incidentally I think it should mandatory for horseriders on public roads to wear high viz clothes as well.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- James (22nd Dec 2020 20:32:26)

D, I am not sure why you keep on bringing up the cycle path on the A3, this has nothing to do with the conversation at hand. That cycle path does not lead anywhere with infrastructure so I am not sure why people would use it, daily.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (23rd Dec 2020 09:21:21)

Hello er, good to hear from you again. Yes, you're right, the exchanges between myself and James are starting to sound like two drunken men in the Kemptown area of Brighton on a Saturday night.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Liphookean (23rd Dec 2020 11:15:20)

In your desire to argue you have missed the original posters point.
Bordon is a growing town with no station. Liphook, also growing, has a station and is a gateway into the South Downs National Park. Between the two towns there is a population of 30,000 people. We should aspire to having a wonderful cycle-path that joins the 5 miles between Liphook and Bordon to make people want to buy a bike to cycle on it. Liphook should have a proper link to the cycle path to Hindhead so we can safely cycle to the Devils Punchbowl and surroundings. Add a few interesting attractions on that pathway and cycle path and you will discover people will come to do the walk and cycle, bringing business to coffee shops and the like. You only have to look at how busy the Devil's punchbowl is to see how much people like to get outdoors.
We don't even have a footpath from Station Road into the station but expect school children to walk with cars sweeping in to pick up commuters. If we invest the money to make our villages and towns more friendly to pedestrians and cyclists it will pay back in quality of life and economically too.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- passfield resident (23rd Dec 2020 12:12:28)

Liphookean-well said . Thank goodness for a sensible post on an important topic that deserves a better discussion than the one it's been getting here.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (23rd Dec 2020 13:25:30)

As always, the question of how this will be paid for remains unanswered.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- James (23rd Dec 2020 14:01:23)

D, you clearly have not read my responses. The government have grants, and it is not unfair to demand that the developers in both Liphook and Bordon pay for it.

Given your conservative views you probably won't agree with me though...

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Joe (23rd Dec 2020 14:01:23)

If the posting is true then I am pleased that riding 2 abreast will be stopped. With regard to a bike tax the bike would need a number plate for the rule to be enforced as anyone can buy a second hand bike.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Liphookean (23rd Dec 2020 14:13:26)

D, thank you for at posing a sensible question.
If you are asking in detail then, I do not know. Thankfully I am not involved in the black arts of government/ counsel/ highways funding. However the money was found to build a new relief road in Bordon. Many new homes are being built in Bordon, Liphook and probably Passfield which can require developer contributions into the community e.g. the Millennium Hall. The Government have announced a desire to spend on both the environment and infrastructure, which is all the more important with the post-Covid recession we will be in.
When there is a want to achieve something good, a care to improve your community, a vision of a better way, then you would be surprised how obstacles, even money, can be overcome.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (23rd Dec 2020 17:50:46)

I couldn't agree more, Liphookean. Governments of all shades have always found ways to get more money out of us. The window tax, the beard tax, insurance tax (cheers, Mr. Brown!) The covid recession will indeed last decades which is why, despite what politicians say (they do twist words after all, as was stated earlier on this thread) I can't see there being any spare cash for things like this. Unless we take money away from defence (which we've never needed more) education or healthcare (ditto) it would be unrealistic to expect it to come about at the present time without cyclists having to contribute something. I still think revenue raised by a cyclist registration scheme and by compulsory cyclist insurance a good place to start. It would, at least, determine how much demand there is for cycle lanes. Those who don't intend using them would not register or insure. I no longer use a bicycle but when I did I had third party insurance, it cost about nine quid in those days. Always handy if I ever found myself in a situation in which I was at fault, better than being sued and losing one's house.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- James (23rd Dec 2020 19:23:58)

D, I have already said your plan will not work.

Compulsory insurance will ONLY benefit the insurance company, not the community and along with your cyclist registration scheme, it will disproportionately affect people on low incomes and young people.

The cheapest insurance for a family of four (4 bikes) are looking at a cost of at least £39.32p not including Personal Accident cover, the cheapest with Personal Accident in £62.96p. A family on a low income will not be able to afford that.

If we refer to Liphookean's post: "Many new homes are being built in Bordon, Liphook and probably Passfield which can require developer contributions into the community e.g. the Millennium Hall." I do not see how it would be unfair to demand that they fully pay for it. So, no. We do not need one of your schemes which will make the poor worse off.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (24th Dec 2020 07:34:27)

James, cyclist insurance would benefit the community through insurance premium tax, as does all insurances. I think less than £40 for a family of four very good value. I'm surprised at how little it has increased in twenty years. Maybe you've had no experience of matters pertaining to insurance yet.

So, James, how would YOU fund cycle lanes?

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Charlie (24th Dec 2020 10:32:31)

D,
I take it you are not aware that the majority of cyclists already have third party liability insurance in place. It comes as standard with most building and contents policies.

Added to that most club cyclists are members of British Cycling, membership of which includes £10 million third party cover.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (24th Dec 2020 12:54:50)

It may do now, Charlie but it didn't over twenty years ago which is why I took out separate cover. Thanks for the info all the same.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- James (24th Dec 2020 14:46:29)

D,

Read my responses. The developers should pay for them. I have said that numerous times on this thread now.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (24th Dec 2020 16:37:37)

James, fine. What you don't realise is the developers can absorb the cost by increasing the price of each home to cover the extra expense. Maybe you don't yet have any experience of running a business and offsetting costs. In doing so it is always possible the extra cost may make the project unviable thereby depriving many "poor" people of the X% of social housing which would have come their way. Not to mention less work in the building trade and building materials supply chain, many of whom maybe "poor" people.

All because James wants anyone but himself to pay for his cycle lane.

Given your non-response to my post concerning insurance premium tax you obviously haven't heard if it. Oh dear.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- er (24th Dec 2020 21:59:50)

Hi D, thanks for that, I enjoy the giggles on here as much as the serious stuff too!

A few thoughts: Liphookean, I'm sure most of the developers money in Bordon has already been spent in Bordon, I doubt they're going to spend it on a cycle path to Liphook, why not Farnham or Alton, in fact what is so special about Liphook to Bordon, there are thousands of miles of country roads without cycle paths, there isn't the money to upgrade them all, if any!

I agree with D et al that a cycle tax or insurance tax towards cycle lanes would make sense, we all have to learn that nothing is really really free, if you want something done for you, sometimes you have to do more than demand and demand and put your hand in your pocket, cycling isn't free anyway, look at the multi thousand pound carbon or titanium things the lycra brigade ride, even kids bikes are hundreds of pounds, not to mention the electric bikes, then there's the gear, wet weather, dry weather etc etc!

James. insurance wouldn't just benefit the insurance industry, it would benefit the people cyclists crash into, remember that lady in London, £39 a year for 4 people isn't bad in the real world for third party liability!

Charlie, home insurance automatically covers third party negligence claims whilst out cycling, are you sure? I did google it earlier at work and found (possibly) the same article you read which did claim this (can't find it now), but really? I've never heard of it when renewing my household insurance, maybe the article is wrong? In all my time renewing household insurance never came across a policy that covered you for third party accident claims whilst off the property or involved in sports etc. Cover for bike theft yes.

Please let me know more, I am actually really interested, do you know which insurers do this, is it under buildings or contents or is it a separate addition to the policy? I would actually quite like this type of policy as I and my family do a lot of cycling and everybody is so litigious nowadays, I'm thinking otherwise of joining Cycling UK just for the cover!

Happy Christmas!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Charlie (24th Dec 2020 22:57:17)

Merry Christmas to you too Er.

May I suggest that rather than googling, you look at your policy documents.

You will find this or similar
"Personal Liability
Your liability in a personal capacity. This includes accidents from your leisure activities such as golf or cycling."

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Hal (27th Dec 2020 14:04:28)

Just as a side note, if you are cycling down the A3 towards Liphook from Hindhead, the pavement/path does continue all the way but it's on the other side of the carriageway so you just need to go through the underpass and rejoin it on the other side. :-)

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Motorists (27th Dec 2020 14:20:26)

Personal insurance policies only cover the policy holder it doesn’t cover if a cyclist runs into a vehicle or damages properties. That’s why they should have a separate on road policy to safeguard any damage they do.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Sarah (27th Dec 2020 16:07:30)

Can I just add that there might not be many cycling accidents officially reported on this stretch of road, but as a Passfield resident I can report having scooped a couple of cyclists up off the road through Passfield when they’ve been knocked sideways off their bikes by passing vehicles. Happily with no serious injuries, more through luck than anything else.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- James (27th Dec 2020 20:13:47)

D,

Let's say 500 houses are built, it costs approximately 200k per KM of cycle lane. Liphook to Bordon, From the A3 Bridge (Headley Road) to the junction of Liphook road / Mill Lane (Lindford - easy access to Bordon) road is 2.9 miles, which is 4.6km. That is around £920k. 920,000 / 500 = a house price increase £1840. The average price of a house in Liphook is £511,338 the average value of a house in Liphook is £554,355. That takes it to around £513,178. Not exactly a detrimental increase if you are going to be buying a house.

You mention social housing, what social housing? Take the development next to the green, on Midhurst Road, the only social housing there is 6 1xbedroom flats, not exactly fit for a family.

How would building a cycle lane, decrease the amount of people working in the building trade and affect the supply chain? That makes no sense.

D, If I could pay for the cycle lane I would. I'm a sport student, I actually understand the importance of fitness, and how important this can be, and how it can save organisations such as the NHS thousands of pounds, by promoting a healthy lifestyle, decreasing the risk of cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes, and other conditions such as osteoporosis.

Thanks for making me laugh as usual!


Sarah, couldn't agree more! Many cyclists do not report incidents due to a lack of evidence, even when the cyclist has been injured.

Hope you all had a good Christmas!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (27th Dec 2020 20:47:41)

James, osteoporosis cannot be prevented by a healthy lifestyle. Maybe you have no experience of working with elderly people yet. Maybe you just have no experience.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- James (27th Dec 2020 22:16:42)

D, betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/...

Get your facts right.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Joe (27th Dec 2020 22:46:19)

D osteopororis can be prevented by eating the right food with the right vitamins and by giving up alcohol. Most illnesses are brought on by an unhealthy diet and lifestyle which has to be started when young. Both are important, but a good healthy organic diet is the key. Look at the Royal Family

Apparently Kate Middleton follows a diet based on mostly raw fruit and veg and little alcohol and sugar. She looks fabulous. The queen mother lived to ripe old age eating only organic food.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Penny Williamson (28th Dec 2020 09:38:06)

The Queen mother also drank alcohol, smoked cigarettes and ate chocolate! Good for her.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (28th Dec 2020 11:36:58)

James, how can you possibly be a "student" of any sort? You would sit in class all day constantly telling your teacher they are wrong and then presenting them with some piece of drivel you cobbled together off the internet in a vain attempt to prove them wrong. If you are typical of what the education system is producing today then I want my money back.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- James (28th Dec 2020 13:26:34)

D,

It is called a student-teacher relationship. If a teacher says something wrong I will correct them and like wise. You are just upset that I proved you wrong. I agree, the education system does not need to improve. I believe we are around 12th best in the world, we should be 1st, this is something you can bring up with your good conservative friend Damian Hinds.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- James (28th Dec 2020 13:34:57)

*Education system does need to improve

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- N (28th Dec 2020 13:51:27)

I have osteoporosis because I have a hereditary autoimmune disease that has affected my lungs and I've been on Steroid treatments most of my life. Steroids have given me osteoporosis, not alcohol or a bad diet !!!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Ian (28th Dec 2020 14:26:26)

Of course James isn’t a student, he’s a know-all, never wrong, has an expert opinion on absolutely every topic on Talkback. He’s probably the most informed and intelligent person he has ever encountered. We should feel privileged to receive his many contributions!!!!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Just saying (28th Dec 2020 15:42:27)

Going back to the original question all the money that the developers have to pay goes into the pot at EHDC. Liphook sees very little of it. If the developers were made to build more roads to carry all the extra traffic that would be a much better solution. Liphook cannot take anymore traffic through the Square something has to be done.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Ian (28th Dec 2020 17:31:25)

The traffic in the square is fine except during the school run, used to be much worse when the A3 run through the square! Too many small minded Liphook residents have no concept beyond their small local world, traffic is way worse elsewhere with much longer delays throughout the day!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Life Resident (28th Dec 2020 19:13:03)

Ian thanks for calling Liphook residents small minded great.I think the boots on the other foot.You seem dead against getting traffic away from our Conservation Square that’s what the bypass was supposed to do . But this has not happen. When the square was revamped the idea was to semi pedestrianised it. What a lovely thought. So Ian please stop calling liphook people small minded.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Ian (28th Dec 2020 19:32:00)

Life resident, just to confirm (as you well know) not labelling all Liphook residents small minded, just those that fit the description, “if the hat fits.......”

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Life Resident (28th Dec 2020 20:30:57)

Ian I think The hat fits you perfectly.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (28th Dec 2020 22:31:45)

James, it's all very well you saying "education standards need to improve" but it only takes one precocious pratt disrupting the class then the teacher gets behind with their schedule which then impedes everyone. I know you're going to demand "Where's your evidence!" Look in the mirror, Sunshine.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Jen (28th Dec 2020 22:45:43)

Sorry to be taking this conversation away from the cycle path theme, but I felt I should balance what James and Joe have said about osteoporosis being preventable, There are many risk factors for osteoporosis that a person cannot change through diet and lifestyle. Here are some from the Royal Osteoporosis Society's website.

Your genes:
Your genes determine the potential size and strength of your skeleton. Research shows that if one of your parents broke their hip, you are more likely to break a bone yourself.

Ageing:
From your late thirties, the amount of bone tissue you have starts to naturally decrease. This happens at different rates in different people.
As you get older, your bone tissue loses strength and becomes more likely to break in general, regardless of your bone density.
Becoming less steady on your feet also becomes more likely with age. This increases your risk of slipping or tripping, and breaking a bone in a fall.

Being a woman:
Osteoporosis and broken bones are more common in women than men.
Your bones lose strength at a faster rate after the menopause. This is because levels of oestrogen (the female sex hormone that helps keep bones strong) decrease.
Women tend to live longer, on average, so are more likely to live with the lower bone strength that comes with age.
Women tend to have smaller bones than men. Having bigger bones is found to reduce the risk of broken bones.

Being of Caucasian or Asian origin:
If you are of Afro-Caribbean origin, your risk of osteoporosis and broken bones is lower than those of Caucasian or Asian origin, because your bones are bigger and stronger.

Medications that increase risk::
If you are taking one of these medications, talk to your doctor. They can suggest ways to limit the effects on your bones. Don’t make any changes without talking to your doctor first. You may do yourself more harm than good.

Medications Known to affect bone strength:
• glucocorticoid (steroids) tablets, if taken for more than three months
• anti-epileptic medications
• breast cancer treatments, such as aromatase inhibitors
• prostate cancer treatments that affect either:

o the production of the male hormone testosterone, or
o the way it works in the body
Medications used for people who have undergone gender confirmation, especially if it's discontinued

The Following May affect bone strength, but more research is needed::
• medications to reduce inflammation of the stomach and oesophagus (proton pump inhibitors (PPIs))
• diabetic medications in the glitazone group, including pioglitazone
• injectable progestogen contraceptives, such as Depo Provera
• some medicines used for mental health conditions, such as:

o tricyclic antidepressants
o selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs)

Medical conditions that increase risk:
If you have one of these medical conditions, talk to your doctor. Proper care of these conditions often reduces their effect on your bone health.
Known to affect bone strength:
• rheumatoid arthritis
• low levels of the sex hormone oestrogen in women, as a result of:
o early menopause
o having a hysterectomy with removal of ovaries, before the age of 45
o anorexia nervosa
o Turner’s syndrome
o excessive exercise
• low levels of the sex hormone testosterone in men, as a result of:
o surgery for some cancers
o Klinefelter syndrome
o Kallman syndrome
o naturally lower testosterone levels

• hyperthyroidism, in which levels of thyroid hormone are abnormally high
• parathyroid disease, in which levels of parathyroid hormone are abnormally high
• conditions that affect the absorption of food, such as:
o Crohn’s
o coeliac disease
• conditions that cause long periods of immobility, such as stroke

The Following May affect bone strength, but more research is needed:
• diabetes
• HIV (AIDS)
• liver disease
• cystic fibrosis
• dementia
• Parkinson’s disease

Organ transplant recipients and people with some respiratory diseases may also be at more risk, although more research is needed to understand why.



Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (29th Dec 2020 07:19:02)

Joe, the Royal family having the best healthcare in the world may be a factor as well, maybe? None of the senior Royal's would ever be diagnosed with stage four cancer, for example. In their case it would be detected and dealt with very early on. I know George VI was but I should imagine they have frequent medicals now which are not available to the rest of us.

I'm grateful to Jen for her post.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Joe (29th Dec 2020 11:35:54)

Hi D yes it is a factor in fact I was once treated in london on the NHS by one of the Queens consultants and yes the bedside manner was as if I was having tea at the Ritz!
I Still stand by my post that an organic diet based on food grown at Sandringham Balmoral, or Prince Charles' estates can be a major factor in their good health. Charles at over 70 had coronavirus but very mildly.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- James (29th Dec 2020 15:01:51)

oh D your language towards me is becoming rude and untoward.

Until you get some manners I will no longer be corresponding with you. I will however still be putting my opinion on threads.

You appear to believe that because I am young and have opinions I am the rude and disrespectful student in class. You could not be further from the truth.

Your attitude to younger people is incredibly disrespectful.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Ian (29th Dec 2020 17:16:24)

James, the scorn you receive is not because you are young, it’s because you are an arrogant know all, lacking in humility and I have to say, intelligence!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Penny Williamson (29th Dec 2020 17:20:33)

Thank you Jen for your very informative post. I did know some of the content but certainly not all of it. I would not normally support deviation from a Thread but in this case it was most welcome as the posts from two posters here get sillier and sillier. Trying to outdo each other with pointless point scoring.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (29th Dec 2020 17:55:39)

Did you ever find those three missing letters, Penny?

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- James (29th Dec 2020 20:59:22)

Ian,

You appear to be upset because I say stuff that is factual. If you can find something that disputes that then let me know.

I also strongly believe a factor into D's aggression towards me is because of my age, as mentioned in another thread a few months ago.

You must look up the definition of arrogance Ian, I believe I do not fit the criteria of that definition. There is arrogance and then there is a debate. Two very different things.

Everything I say is backed up with evidence, so saying I am not intellectual is just not truthful Ian. I believe you are upset because I corrected you on using pronouns a few months ago; I think that may have hurt your ego.

Jen,

Thank You for posting that. I will do some more research into that so I can understand osteoporosis better. Be assured however, that when I said exercise prevented it what I meant to say was that it can help you with the effects. As exercises effects bone density helping to prevent fractures etc.

Have a good evening Jen.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Ian (29th Dec 2020 21:22:39)

Well done James, you’ve just confirmed my appraisal of you for all to see! And just for the record I don’t think you upset anyone on this site, just make us laugh!!

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- James (29th Dec 2020 22:54:22)

Ian,

If you have enough intellect to tell me how I proved your point please explain; otherwise I believe this thread has run its course.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Ian (30th Dec 2020 10:29:47)

James, if you do not have enough intellect to see for yourself how you proved my point then indeed this thread has run its course

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (30th Dec 2020 13:43:45)

As the old adage goes, James, "If you can't take it don't dish it out."

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- James2 (30th Dec 2020 16:02:15)

All through this thread "D" has gone on about the cycle path on the A3. Yes what a complete waste of money and opportunity. But not for the reason "D" means. Anyone who complains that there are not many cyclists on this route has clearly never tried using it!! You feel completely unsafe on it with cars whizzing past you going at least 70mph. Coupled with the petrol and diesel exhaust fumes. It is shocking designers thought it was ok to have no barrier between cyclists and cars going at that speed. Shameful that people even thing cyclists should be using it. Clearly anyone complaining of it's poor use has never even considered riding a bike for their health. As for the cost of creating cycle paths.... if you want to encourage people to have healthy exercise and reduce their carbon footprint then cycle paths are an investment to peoples health, for the environment and the future generations of this country.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Penny Williamson (30th Dec 2020 17:47:09)

D What do you mean by "Did you ever find those three missing letters, Penny?" Please let me know as I am genuinely puzzled.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (30th Dec 2020 18:02:55)

Hello, James2. As it happens I used to cycle from Liphook into Greatham every day along this route and I found the cycle path along the A3 safer than cycling through Liphook. I did this for many years until on the way home one day in August a vehicle pulling out of the layby opposite The Anchor didn't see me and I ended up pushed onto the wrong side of the road in front of a lorry. I went back to my car after that. The only problems I had with the cycle lane was broken down cars parked on it but that didn't happen often. I mentioned the perimeter track, absolute delight to cycle on with easy access at the top of the Longmoor/Greatham road. On a good day I could do the circuit in less than half hour but with these modern hi-tech bikes I expect it can be done quicker.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Penny Williamson (1st Jan 2021 10:09:25)

D you still haven't answered my question which was what do you mean by your question in this Thread directed at me "Did you ever find those three missing letters, Penny?". If you feel you need to ask a mysterious question which I cannot answer because I don't know to what you are referring, you might at least have the courtesy to reply. You are very vocal on this site so you obviously have the time, Thank you in anticipation and I wish you a Happy New Year.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (1st Jan 2021 10:23:07)

Hello, Penny, I was referring to our exchange on the "appreciation" thread posted by Dave on 2nd May. It was intended as a good humoured jibe and no offence was intended in any way. I hope you had a good new year and may I wish you well for 2021. Can't possibly be as bad as 2020.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Local Resident (8th Jan 2021 09:14:52)

Just to book end this thread.

Yesterday I cycled from Liphook to Petersfield via Rake - and then Haslemere to Liphook via the back route in the evening ( a complicated work day for me yesterday...)

Again – the Rake route is crying out for a cycle path. There are acres of space on the route – it is not as if we are working to establish an urban route like the A24 between Tooting and Balham (see national press for details).

This leads me to rank the main routes out of Liphook in order of risk. (My tongue is in my cheek people – don’t hate on me...!)

1. Liphook to Haslemere via the main road – suicidal. Just don’t do it. Ensure your will is up to date if you do.

2. Liphook to Bordon via the Headley Road – also scary. Think very hard before doing it. Watch out for vans and pickup trucks.

3. Liphook to Petersfield via Rake– scary. Passable with extreme care, and much illegal riding on the pavement.

4. Liphook to Bordon via the back route. OK, just be careful on the Standford stretch.

5. Liphook to Haslemere via Hewshott – actually pretty OK, apart from the mud and wintry crap all over the road.

Over and out.

:)

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- James2 (9th Jan 2021 11:09:33)

You also take your life in your hands on the three roundabouts in the centre of Liphook. I lost count of the times clearly the driver didn't see me. It seems drivers don't expect there to be mad people actually cycling on the roads in liphook where 99.999% of all journeys are by car. I read with interest D's last post. Where he had issue on his bike in the centre of liphook outside the Anchor which stopped him cycling, thereby demonstrating the need we have in liphook for protected cycling.

On a positive note. In the summer if you make it to "The Links" alive you can take the bridleway to the golf course and then follow really good route (tarmac or solid bridleway path) all the way to the Deer's hut/ Griggs green. In the winter to avoid the mud you have to carry a bit further along the main road from "The Links" to access the route across the golf course to avoid the muddy bridleway. This avoids liphook centre + the roundabouts and is indeed a useable "relief road" at least to cyclists and pedestrians.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Motorists (9th Jan 2021 11:54:27)

Just driven through Liphook cyclists riding down Portsmouth Road all in Black very hard to see I come across this very often why do cyclists where black. Please wear very bright colours fluorescent if possible.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (9th Jan 2021 13:10:31)

As James has seen fit to take advantage of my reply to James2 I'll take advantage of one of his:- If cyclists are fifteen times more likely to be killed on the roads than motorists, surely there is a good case to ban bicycles on the roads on grounds of safety. Good case of "be careful what you wish for."

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- lac (11th Jan 2021 10:06:22)

I do wish people would stop trying to score points on this forum. The UK approach to cycling is appalling. It seems to consist of a bizarre mix of "leisure routes" designed for tourism, lines painted on busy roads and signs erected on muddy bridleways indicating cycling is allowed. Consequently, we have people too scared to cycle on roads (including me), and with no coherent network. Try cycling from Liphook to Grayshot for example. In many parts of Europe, cycles are separated from cars with dedicated cycle paths (not mudbaths). It is easy to cycle round Copenhagen for example. Cyclists are physically separated from cars with proper road architecture (not disgusting orange bollards), their own traffic lights, dedicated sufficient cycle parking etc. The result is that most short journeys are done by bike. In rural areas, the same applies. Local towns and villages are connected by a network of dedicated cycle paths. As a result, traffic congestion is low and local journeys are usually by bike. For some reason, be it planning, bureaucaracy, lack of vision, lethargy or a combination of these, the UK seems incapable of planning and building anything these days. It is amazing that our own area, with a myriad of bridleways, footpaths and disused railway lines, not to mention the acres of National Trust land, does not have a coherent dedicated and well maintained cycle network. Think how much easier it would be if our children could cycle safely to the Bohunt with secure dedicated bike storage on site. Come on politicians and planners, I dare you to create something excellent, not just a "tick box" make do and mend solution.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (11th Jan 2021 10:47:59)

Iac, at the end of the day, someone has to pay. You mention other European countries, some of those have a basic rate of income tax a lot higher than ours so of course they can afford cycle lanes. I used to cycle all the roads mentioned on this thread and I can't say I ever felt nervous.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Julian (11th Jan 2021 11:47:57)

I have been looking at a cycle route between Liphook and Bordon for some time.

I have had meetings with Hampshire Highways our local Councillors and the National Trust and the discussions were extremely positive.

The NT manage most of the land in between the two towns and there is potential for cycle routes to be routed through some of our most beautiful countryside, away from any roads and with limited road crossings.

I am up to the point where I need to submit my suggestions back to the NT and have no doubt that Liphook & Bramshott would support this.

Funding is always a question, however I hoped to establish the routes first.

If anyone would be able to get together in this as a community project team please feel free to contact me on 01428 751404.

Thanks, Julian.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- M (11th Jan 2021 14:08:14)

@ Julian
Sounds to me you're a great community minded guy.
Have you been in contact with the Neighbourhood Plan about your thoughts/proposals?
I believe they are looking for any help or ideas with regards infrastructure improvements so your plans, I'm sure, will be of great interest to them.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Keith Birch (13th Jan 2021 10:30:47)

A bit more openness would be helpful, please publish the route options being considered.

Avoid make the same mistake as the Longmoor route along side the A325 and use shingle surface, as this limits the bicycles that will use the route because of increase risk in punctures. Plus Tarmac needs less on going maintenance, than shingle.

Consideration of widening pathways to dual use would increase utilisation and occupy minimum extra space where paths exist I.e. Liphook to Passfield

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- N (13th Jan 2021 12:00:37)

You won't get a cycle path from liphook to passfield. A few years ago we applied for a proper footpath but the national Trust natural England refused it. Onsite meeting with them and highways.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- D (14th Jan 2021 10:56:36)

Julian's proposal would appear to appease all the criticisms levelled at the existing cycle lanes in Liphook, I see no reason why the people on this thread commenting about the lack of cycle lanes shouldn't give him their full support. I think separate, self contained cycle lanes away from pedestrians and motorized traffic is an excellent idea. Given the pandemic and looking thereafter, do we really want sweaty, heavily panting cyclists passing close to pedestrians and the open nearside windows of cars spreading their aerosols? Probably not a good idea and certainly not in the spirit of social distancing. I wish you well with this, Julian.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Julian (14th Jan 2021 13:38:04)

@ D - thank you for your comments.

@ Keith - Yes and extremely valid points.

@ N - the NT have refused many requests over years, however with the recent discovery of historical deeds I don't believe that they can. The NT should really support the community and its requirements. More on this later.

@ M - I looked at the neighbourhood plan and when asked to stick on my "spot" and comment, but I fell off the edge of the map! It stopped at the bridge over the A3. I still commented but no contact yet.

Neighbourhood plans seem exactly that, very localised. Do they take into account linking two neighbourhoods such as Liphook & Bordon? Ideally we need a District plan.

As I mentioned, If anyone is able to give support s a community project please feel free to contact me on 01428 751404. I still await the phone to ring!

I would welcome the opportunity to discuss this with the original poster if you can?

If we remain positive we can achieve more.

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- Elizabeth (14th Jan 2021 22:18:14)

Sounds like a great idea. Would be lovely to be able to cycle through those woods. (Even walk more safely away from the road.)

Re: Cycle path from Liphook to Bordon
- James2 (15th Jan 2021 10:46:37)

Julian

You can only be congratulated for getting so many positive comments on this thread (including some surprise ones - well done!!). Dedicated cycle routes are one of the ways we get more cyclists which is essential if we want to reverse climate change.

re attracting supporters might be worth considering having an online group of some sort... were people can learn of your plans etc. Though I can understand you might not want to create a FB group... but certainly would be a way of other supporters to join you. Rather than people start calling phone numbers etc. Just a thought. Certainly I support this route and I know someone in Bordon who cycles to liphook often who would be interested.

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