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Local Talkback
Talkback is for the residents and businesses in Liphook to voice their views and opinions about local issues and events.

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The infamous Newtown Road
- Stevie Mac (24th Sep 2019 - 07:20:27)

This is an annual reminder to users of the train station that Newtown Road is clearly signposted as ‘access only’ - ie you can’t use it to park your vehicle all day.

From 5am most days we have people revving their engines trying to park, leaving no room for residents and visitors during the day. Use the station car park please.

And while I’m on the subject, another reminder to all those lovely parents heading to Churchers and Highfield schools in the morning, Newtown Road is ‘access only’ and should not be used as a rat run/race track to make sure your loved ones get to lessons on time!

Re: The infamous Newtown Road
- Ann (24th Sep 2019 - 11:43:33)

When the lines are painted in the entrance to the Berg Estate more drivers will probably try and park for free in Newtown Road!

Re: The infamous Newtown Road
- Stevie Mac (27th Sep 2022 - 09:08:54)

Bringing this topic to the attention of readers, particularly those ignorant enough to continue to use Newtown Road (opposite the train station) as a short-cut to get from Station Road to Midhurst Road during the morning rush hour.

The road is 'access only' - as signposted at both ends of the road - and should not be used by anyone without a reason to visit residents/businesses on the road. It should not be used by those dropping their kids off at local schools. Cars speed down the road between 0800-0900. It is only a matter of time before someone gets seriously injured. I will be raising my concerns, again, with the council. But drivers should be aware that Newtown Road residents have had enough of this daily hazard.

Re: The infamous Newtown Road
- Ann (27th Sep 2022 - 09:18:42)

Stevie, a good idea would be block car/s in if known for sure they are parked there and using the train!

Re: The infamous Newtown Road
- Russ (27th Sep 2022 - 10:14:37)

The same thing in the avenue used as a rat run for bohunt school. Complete disregard for 20 mph limit. Even huge lorries use it . Have asked council for 7.5 tonnes limit but was told no more sign’s going up in liphook haha. It seems that doesn’t apply to Bramshott were the councillors live.

Re: The infamous Newtown Road
- er (27th Sep 2022 - 11:41:45)

Ah yes, the good old use/ownership of Newtown Road dispute😂😂😂

When roads are being used as a rat run, it is reasonable for the councils to restrict through access for safety reasons. There is a balance to be struck between depriving some members of the public from a publuc street and safety. This is a delicate balance bearing in mind we do not have a habit in this country of barring or depriving people from public thoroughfares based upon arbitrary criteria such as where they live.

Hence no entry except for access applies to everyone equally. Neither we, nor the residents can drive straight through this street, whether we live there or not, fair enough. This is the basis of equality which must be done as well as seen to be done.

But what then gives the residents and their guests exclusive right to use and park in our street for free, without even the usual parking permit? If there are no signed parking restrictions, other than a consequential and disputable inference, then perhaps the main intention of the signage was not to restrict parking, was this an unintended consequence I wonder?

But common law of the land does not allow residents to claim exclusive parking rights to their streets over outsiders, without designated, correctly passed and most importantly, clearly signed restrictions and/or an authorised and democratically passed Residents Parking Scheme being in place.

Residents wanting a parking permit even where such scheme has passed planning, are expected to purchase a permit, this is usually a fairly nominal sum, but importantly it is to prove that we are all being treated equally, it's the permit that permits parking, not the residency, and the fee is to ensure that those living within a residents parking zone do not get above themselves thinking they own the street or that they could in future obtain any rights over it beyond those of ordinary members of the public!

So parking in and of itself would appear to be permitted, but how to get to these lawful parking spots? Ah yes, you must surely 'access' them, no? But that brings us back to the start of this debate, no further forward!

I'm sure the dispute will rage on, those who want to keep the riff raff out and those who object to being excluded from public streets!

Re: The infamous Newtown Road
- AF (27th Sep 2022 - 15:46:36)

Stevie

If commuters want to park in Newtown road they can and will, it is a public road and therefore anyone can park there. Put yourself in the place of a commuter, should I park in Newtown road and have a 2min walk to the station at NO COST or pay £5.00 to park in the station car park. The price may be slightly off put its around that figure. You don't need to be a genius to work out the answer.

Also the station Car park is not big enough for all the cars that may want to use it.

As for the no through road, the signs are meaningless with no enforcement, the solution for that is to have the road blocked at one end with concrete bollards probably the station end, this may stop some commuters parking, but not all.

Re: The infamous Newtown Road
- Joe (27th Sep 2022 - 17:18:40)

I have looked this up and apparently the access only signs are something which the local authority did, they are meant to be in conjunction with parking permits which I do not think has happened in Newtown Rd, and the Police do not like the signs because they are virtually unenforceable.

Re: The infamous Newtown Road
- M (27th Sep 2022 - 21:02:09)

Newtown Road is a "No Motor Vehicles" road except for access (to premises or frontages). If you aren't wishing to get access to a premises or frontage you shouldn't drive down the road in a motorised vehicle. Driving down the road to just park in the road is not allowed, unless you actually access a premises or frontage (private land) or to use it as a cut through.
Obviously the above is all well and good as long as the powers that be enforce the rules! Unfortunately the powers that be (our local traffic police?) aren't interested in what could be classed as a local traffic issue, so its unlikely anyone will be prosecuted for infringing this particular rule.
I feel sorry for the residents affected,. Not because they feel they have a right to park outside their house but because the "No Motor Vehicles" regulation was put in place for a reason (to limit the number of vehicles using the road and ensure it stayed as a quiet street for residents to be able to move around safely).
As it's not working then I think the only option the resident have is to have the road blocked up at one end and have implemented a permit parking scheme, with the costs that would mean to those residents. How they progress that I'm not sure.

Re: The infamous Newtown Road
- Sam (27th Sep 2022 - 21:43:41)

Public road, taxes paid, not parked illegally and not obstructing anyone other than the mind of someone whom thinks they own public property and bends the definition of unenforceable sign posts to claim rights they don’t possess.

Please continue to park on the Newtown road and add this post to the futile top 3 posts within which one party rants and nothing is ever achieved which includes bonfires and barking dogs

Thanks for the tip on the free parking by the way

Re: The infamous Newtown Road
- Stevie Mac (28th Sep 2022 - 06:51:32)

M - 100% agree.

Sam - imagine if we all had your attitude. The sign posts were put there for a reason. As with bonfires and barking dogs, it is a matter of respect for your fellow man (women etc) and empathy. As with all things, stop for a moment and think 'how are my actions impacting others?'

If you own a dog, should you be letting it bark non-stop? If you want to have a bonfire, should you really have it in the middle of the day when your neighbour has just put their washing out'?

Is it right to travel at speed and park along a road which has 'no access' signs, potentially putting at risk the lives of pedestrians?

Re: The infamous Newtown Road
- Jack (28th Sep 2022 - 09:53:15)

AF
You're wrong, not anyone can park in Newtown Road. Next time you're in W H Smiths find the booklet Know Your Road Signs, it will be alongside the Highway Code, and read what the Access Only road sign means.

Re: The infamous Newtown Road
- Dave (29th Sep 2022 - 19:08:58)

Cheers Stevie I’m new to Liphook and was unsure if there was any free parking in close proximity to the station. Good tip that there’s free all day parking on Newtown Road. I’ll start parking there instead of paying at the station.

Re: The infamous Newtown Road
- Fred (29th Sep 2022 - 19:15:51)

So there loads of free parking on the road across from the station, good money saving tip in these hard times that we find ourselves in. Good to see people pulling together and offering up their road to park on in order to save others money.

Re: The infamous Newtown Road
- terry jones (30th Sep 2022 - 08:40:55)

This is wonderful news.

We have guests coming to stay for two weeks and I have to move my caravan off of my drive during that period.

It's a big one (21ft, 3 inches) but if you're telling me it's OK to stick it in Newtown Road for a fortnight then that's going to save me a bucketload of money.

Cheers

Re: The infamous Newtown Road
- sam (1st Oct 2022 - 15:55:47)

Whatever the sign says its not enforced, no tickets issues for parking correctly on this road so all the hot air about the sign and the people whom live there acting well beyond their jurisdiction or indeed rights is rightfully being ignored.

Next time I cant get a space at the station I know where to look, all this post is achieveing is highlighting an unknown handy and legal parking spot

Re: The infamous Newtown Road
- M (1st Oct 2022 - 17:33:00)

To all the people commenting on this post in what can only be called a "tongue in cheek" way (thanks for telling me about a free station parking place etc etc) are totally missing the point.
The sign says "No Motor Vehicles" except for access (to property or frontage) so it's not the parking that is illegal it's actually turning into the road and driving down it!
Everyone knows you are playing devil's advocate, and to be honest taking the Pee, but the rules of the road are there for a reason so should be obeyed.... and enforced!

Re: The infamous Newtown Road
- Sam (1st Oct 2022 - 19:38:41)

And I have a “Give Way” sign at the bottom of my road and that means cars with sun roofs aren’t allowed to reverse on my street !

Please get a grip of yourself, ANYONE CAN PARK ON PUBLIC ROADS, if it really makes you happy then those parking there should drive in one way, park all day, get the train and then drive back out the way they came in thus not driving “through”

Re: The infamous Newtown Road
- passfield resident (2nd Oct 2022 - 10:13:55)

To say anyone can park on public roads is not quite correct-there are all sorts of different types of parking restrictions , especially in residential areas. One thing residents of Newtown Road could do is speak to the local schools about rat runners-the schools do care about the feelings of the community and can write to parents reminding them not to do this-schools often do this.

Re: The infamous Newtown Road
- Joe (2nd Oct 2022 - 14:22:34)

I think what Sam means is that unless there is a residents only permit scheme operating in Newtown Road ( which possibly should have been set up when the access only signs were put up) then in a village residential area, unless there are shops with parking restrictions nearby then or double or single yellow lines then yes anyone can park there as it is not a “private “ road.

Re: The infamous Newtown Road
- M (3rd Oct 2022 - 13:09:01)

Think most people are missing the point.
The problem isn't people parking on Newtown Road, there are no parking restrictions, it's people driving down Newtown Road without a valid reason.
Newtown Road is No Motor Vehicles, excecpt for access to a property.
Driving down the road, parking you're car and walking away is NOT accessing a property, therefore you shouldn't be there.
Pretty simple if you ask me.

Re: The infamous Newtown Road
- er (4th Oct 2022 - 01:34:18)

Hi M, what you say makes a lot of common sense, the problem is so do the others to me at least, the problem here are the signs not the people! They cannot possibly (in my opinion) prevent parking, but they sow confusion. They are therefore what I would classify as bad law should be unenforceable.

They say put 2 solicitors in a room and you get 3 different opinions. I heard that somewhere (or did I just make that up?), it sounds good anyway!

I wonder if anybody has ever been convicted of driving into that road to park? I doubt it because the police must know it would be very dubious, but I'd love to hear, because it would suprise me, although I understand not everybody wishes to employ a good lawyer and fight every case, they do rely on most of us being intimidated or thinking it's easier and safer to pay up!

You see, a lawyer worth his or her salt would probably look at the originating Traffic Order that created the road signs that we see and determine what the parameters of the council powers actually were, that decides the directives they had and whether they got the signage right or wrong!

I think most of us believe it was to prevent rat running, not to prevent parking.

Noone gets convicted for breaking the Highway Code, only for breaking specific Road Traffic Acts. They are much, much more complicated and lawyers can spend days arguing over them and looking at what the intentions were, whether they were clear etc, then the Judge, looking at equitable outcomes and public interest will actually decide how to interpret the signage and wording in the real world, often disagreeing with the solicitors and barristers arguments and coming to their own conclusions! That's our legal system in a nutshell. people with wigs rule!

No Entry signs are clear and apply to all of us, unless expressly and succinctly excepted, (ie No Entry Except for Local Buses), but these No Entry Except for Access signs are less so, apply to arguably only some of us and so their meaning needs to be interpreted equitably by Judges which is above the remit of Parliament, Councils or the public (let's not talk about blocking parked cars in folks!).

In the absence of signage there are obvious grounds for claiming ambiguity at the very least, perhaps negligence, no wonder the police don't enforce parking restrictions there!

Cars driving straight through would convey no element of access we could all agree, even by the most generous interpretation.

Example: So what if say a delivery driver drove down the road to deliver a parcel, but you came out to the car to meet him so he never left the street or pavement? Was an intention to visit a house or garden which never materialised a defence to any charge? In which case the signage is clearly incomplete, except it isn't because it's just a very cursive summary of a deeper legal debate.

If we accept the simplified Highway Code definition of accessing property, rather than any actual case-law, then surely genuine intention to access property must be included, whether it is ultimately accessed or not, since the driver's intention must be decided at point of entry!

'No Entry' signs are succint, clearly defined and apply to all, they will also allow a different point of entry, equally, usually from the other end, but these No Motor Vehicles Except for Access signs are fraught with danger, confusion, exclusivity and innuendo, do we actually know how the courts have interpreted them, who is in the right and who is in the wrong?

Also, since the police are not above us in obeying traffic laws, nor the council, or anyone else, then they would be unable to patrol or visit this street, yet police patrols were surely never intended to be banned from this road, what would happen if the police couldn't drive down the road without knocking on someone's door? OK in emergencies they are given leeway by consent rather than right, but not all police patrols fall under emergencies, can the police patrol these streets?

Imagine if the dustmen came to empty your bins but all the bins were on the pavement so they never had to access a house or garden, would they be crtiminals?

Ultimately it's a public road, obviously to most of us, the traffic order intends to prevent rat running not parking or other legimate business whether it involves access to houses or not!

A better sign would be No Access during certain peak hours, this would allay the concerns about shutting off a public street to arbitrary motor vehicles and preventing access altogether for legitimate parking. It would prevent rat running at peak hours and still allow access to free parking on the communal street. Clear signs are good signs and are enforceable.

Happy Accessing and goodnight from me, enjoyed the debate, hope the signage is clarified and the residents can go on to enjoy the peace they crave whilst not depriving us of our common law rights!!

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