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Brexit - Yellow Bannanna Adrian (24th Mar 2019 - 13:13:53) With the protest yesterday in London lets remember we had a peoples vote and we need to leave EU NOW. What happens if we had another vote and as i expect the same result happened would the MP's honour it, they didn't honour the first one. If the result was different would we then go for another best of 3. Come on MP's get your finger out we voted to leave now do your job support democracy and get us out.

Re: Brexit - Helen (24th Mar 2019 - 14:46:01) Do you think your bananas will be cheaper then with a no deal brexit?

Re: Brexit - Kate (24th Mar 2019 - 15:19:43) Every vote even if its a vote today and a vote tomorrow is still democratic, people are allowed to change their minds, we already vote every 4 years for a government, by your logic we should have only voted once back in the 1800's for a government and kept that government since! Its been 3 years since we voted for the referendum, easily enough time to have another vote on it. I dont see millions voting online to leave? nor do I see millions marching to leave? over a million marched yesterday for the peoples vote yet Nigel Farage held an opposite march and just 300 odd turned up. The tide has turned, opinions are different, let the people decide as parliament clearly cant. The only reason this argument about we cant vote twice is surfacing is that your chicken about another vote. PS Adrian.... your mocking yourself with this misspelled fruit thing, your not a celebrity because of it.

Re: Brexit - David Lambert (24th Mar 2019 - 16:07:33) Kate, You must be living on another planet. We don't want another vote. We had a vote and we voted to LEAVE what is it you don't understand. Stop whinging and just accept you lost and lets all pull in the same direction and make this country the best in the world.

Re: Brexit - A.R (24th Mar 2019 - 16:25:48) Why do I have to march. I voted no deal and that should be and end to it. A democratic vote was held and it should be honoured.

Re: Brexit - David (24th Mar 2019 - 18:41:51) We don't see the people that voted leave marching the streets . They are hoping that there vote will be forfilled . I'm sure if the government Welch on there promises and don't do what the voters asked for back in 2016 there would be a lot more than 1 million marching. I voted leave and would still like to leave. Ps its not only old people that only voted leave.

Re: Brexit - Jacob (24th Mar 2019 - 18:47:51) What a tangled web we weave. It must go back to the people to vote on, if parliament can't agree give it back the people. At the end of the day it's us poor mortals that are going to have to live with it. I am really looking forward to interest rates going through the roof, not. NHS running out of medicine, not enough nurses and doctors because we have made them unwelcome, but don't worry the leave campaign said they will give it £375 million, oh hang on they said they didn't, but what was that slogan on the bus? I feel so sorry for my lad, and the rest of the younger generation, having to try and put the UK back together.

Re: Brexit - David Lambert (24th Mar 2019 - 19:27:29) Jacob, You are entitled to your opinion. Just remember the result of the vote. If this vote is not honoured we will have far more problems possible riots etc. Do we need that NO is the answer. Stop all the scare mongering and lets just leave and then this wonderful country can and will go from strength to strength. It may be tough for a while but as the saying goes NO GAIN WITHOUT PAIN.

Re: Brexit - Meh (24th Mar 2019 - 19:36:08) Really rate that from Dave. Accuses someone of scaremongering, but also threatens riots. Nice one.

Re: Brexit - Brexit (24th Mar 2019 - 19:55:47) Bananas: Regrettably, nobody has to vote nor vote again. Chanting and re-chanting that the referendum had produced a democratic mandate does not alter the facts: 1) The referendum was fraught with disinformation and irregularities. 2) It had resulted in a close to 50/50 result. 3) It was badly worded. 4) It is legally reversible. 5) There is nothing undemocratic about a new vote. MP's have more skills and more information to-hand when it comes to subjects like the EU membership. They do seem to believe (albeit unsaid) that the current EU membership is indeed the best possible deal for the UK. They can't utter it because of some unsavoury political reasons. PM's were put in the unenviable position of acting against their best judgement, handling an impossible conundrum of “brexit means brexit” or the overly simplistic single-worded Leave instruction. A bit like a car manual consisting solely of the word: “Use”. Memberships at clubs / relationships often stipulate opting out procedures, these are often unpalatable (we didn't like the divorce bill etc.). Further to this, with back-wind from the backbenchers, our leaders have prematurely committed us all to an early triggering of Article 50, unworkable red lines, unworkable relationship with the DUP etc. The Leave campaign had climbed so high up the tree, parliament couldn't help them back down. Parliament job to respect the public's views, but also clarify how some situations could turnout to be an unworkable impasse. We have been warned, pre-referendum that we will not be eating the cake and having it; though there may be some VERY limited cherry picking. David Lambert: Your response to Kate reads aggressive -to say the least, to me. Pity you've chosen that tone. Perhaps a non-aggressive logical explanation of the SUBSTANCE of your argument would serve your argument better. There is not and there will be no such thing as the best country in the world. Overly-simplistic views like this had affected the referendum's result. Each has it's problems and counter strengths. Brexit is one major weakness for the UK. That's why people like A.R find it bewildering: he/she seems to have voted for no-deal cliff-edge, perhaps violating international law. One good reason this had not happened (yet) is because many other Leave voters were in total belief brexit UK will be very working extremely close the the EU – those Leave voters are aghast with the prospects of having their votes taken as a mandate for no-deal. The Referendum wording was overly-simplistic, unfit for purpose.

Re: Brexit - Jacob (24th Mar 2019 - 20:42:56) Good evening David I am not scaremongering, I just saying the facts. The NHS senior doctor's have all written to parliament to say that we are running out of drugs, let alone nurses and doctors that are going home. Mark Carney the head of the Bank of England, has warned parliament the interest rates will rise very very quickly. But just let's hope he wrong as it hard enough for the younger generation to get on the property ladder, it going to be impossible for them after brexit.

Re: Brexit - Dave Cameron (24th Mar 2019 - 20:49:20) Hi, Can't believe I got away with the biggest vote winning cock up of all time. Living the dream, raking it in. It will fine............... Good luck and all the best. Cheers DC.

Re: Brexit - Helen (24th Mar 2019 - 20:54:51) There are hundreds of thousands of people who have turned 18 since the first referendum and might like to have their say, would be interesting to see if the last 3 years have changed more than a few minds as well as shaped theirs, let’s have another referendum! Best of three is always a good shout in life.

Re: Brexit - Kate (24th Mar 2019 - 20:57:30) I live in a democratic country, one that allows us to choice. Yes we choose to leave... but we still have the right to choose again. Lets have that vote... come at me and lose... democratically PS, there wont be any pulling together, nor will there be any strength to strength, in a few short years this county will be as significant internationally as Tuvalu based on your idea's. The UK has been a sinking ship for years, it never going to be what you once thought it was. It stopped being a superpower back in the suez crisis. We are just a little island whom has now turned it back on our freinds allowing russia and the US to take over. We are saving you from your silly ideas

Re: Brexit - Ian (24th Mar 2019 - 21:14:26) The leave mob is running scared as they know they won the referendum by the slimmest of margins on the basis of lies and social media misrepresentation. Hardly democracies finest moment and of course now the leave BS has been exposed they are trying to push through any type of exit asap as they know they no longer have the majority.

Re: Brexit - oldie (24th Mar 2019 - 22:10:44) Jacob "I feel so sorry for my lad, and the rest of the younger generation, having to try and put the UK back together." Jacob, do you mean get a job, I mean surely he and many other British young people would have a better chance of getting a better paid job if we no longer have unlimited borderless immigration from a lot of really poor Eastern EU countries. The bosses will no longer be able to undercut the British kids with desperately low wages and conditions (zero hours, pretend self employment, no holidays, no sick pay, no pensions.). OK less doctors but if we consider a quarter of the 2.5 million UK Higher Education students end up working in jobs that require no higher education (retail, factories etc) or end up unemployed, it wouldn't be such a bad idea to rethink and put the system back together better. You can't nullify a vote because of some dodgy facts or we'd never have a vote on anything again. I agree that we should leave, pull together and give it a go, with the option of reviewing in 5 years.

Re: Brexit - Peter (24th Mar 2019 - 23:40:58) Not everyone whom voted to leave is a racist, but its worth bearing in mind that every racist voted to leave.

Re: Brexit - Regrexit (25th Mar 2019 - 08:53:11) Oldie, Could you lay out for us precisely what selection, numbers and criteria post-brexit immigration targets would be enforced in reality? What measures would post-brexit UK take against mass exodus of desperate third-world regions? Who would pay for that? Who will have the unenviable job saying 'no' to desperate victims and children (the EU facilitated that for us so far)? Who would prevent Scotland from welcoming EU nationals? Who will control the NI border? who will pay for that? The UK's problem with excessive immigration from poor Eastern European is not the EU's fault, despite campaign Leave's lies. Other EU countries have been practising the UE's legal rigorous registration (e.g. ID cards and local council registration) and have been monitoring and controlling the numbers of immigrants claiming benefit over certain periods. The UK had not bothered thus ended up in a mess. Are you suggesting the UK would look after workers' rights better than the EU would? Refreshing. Peter, What do you define as 'racist'? What statistical figures do you hold for the rate of racists within the electorate and numerically which way they have voted? Fascinating.

Re: Brexit - Jacob (25th Mar 2019 - 09:34:40) Dear oldie, Can I borrow your rose tinted glasses to look through? My son is working hard at university ( engineering ) he is working and try to study, to pay for his education and come out with as little debt he can Why do the older generation think the youngest don't want to work!? Many many of the engineering companies are moving out of the UK, why do I ask you ask because the UK is leaving the EU. He is not lucky like the older generation, that had a free education. I'm just glad he can speak another European language, so look for work in Europe.

Re: Brexit - Julian (25th Mar 2019 - 15:45:29) The House of Commons recently voted on holding another Referendum. The vote was no. The 2016 referendum result should be respected. There is information on how our local MP voted here; https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24782/damian_hinds/east_hampshire/recent

Re: Brexit - Aidy (25th Mar 2019 - 19:23:10) Peter. It takes someone with even fewer braincells than your average racist to make a statement like yours. You do the remain argument no favours whatsoever with that sort of ignorant tosh.

Re: Brexit - Bernard (25th Mar 2019 - 19:47:11) Is is ignorant though,? Aidy. Peter did say that not all leavers are racist. It seems a fair point. How many racist remainers do you know? For that matter, how many remainers have you heard of being caught sending violent threats to MPs or petition organisers? Not all leavers are racist. But the leave cause definitely has an image problem.

Re: Brexit - Mandi (25th Mar 2019 - 20:53:50) You lot are so boring yawnnnn.this IS LIPHOOK TALKBACK not THE HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Re: Brexit - L (25th Mar 2019 - 21:07:31) Oldie, your comments show how little you know and this type of ignorance of facts is exactly why we are in such a mess right now. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-latest-news-10-ways-eu-protects-british-workers-rights-in-danger-european-union-a7531366.html%3famp

Re: Brexit - Aidy (26th Mar 2019 - 07:27:41) Bernard. Perhaps it's a bit harsh to call it ignorant, I agree. Let me say misguided instead. I think it's fair to say that the general consensus amongst Remainers is that brexiteers are mostly poorly educated racists. This is an idea that I believe was started and perpetuated by the BBC. Only last week I saw on the BBC lunchtime news some Brexit coverage where a well dressed and erudite remainer was given the opportunity to provide his thoughts on the subject. We then cut to what the announcer described as "Brexit Heartland" Bolton where they interviewed several not quite so well spoken midweek lunchtime drinkers on the subject. That's the impartial, non-agenda driven Auntie Beeb for you. And they started this whole "brexiteer = racist" agenda with the post-vote statistical analysis they did breaking down voting by region and age / education. Those statistics have been used to paint the racist brexiteer picture by the mainstream media and, in my view, this has been at least as equally pernicious as any of the lies the leave campaign used. The simple fact is these statistics are not based on fact, they're based on a correlation analysis. They don't know which way individuals voted, we weren't asked for our education standards on the voting forms were we? They simply picked an area and correlated how it voted against some education (and age) level statistics for the same area. Given that the overall votes were generally quite tight by region, it is impossible to draw any proper conclusions from this analysis. However, in as plain terms as I can put it, the true statement that can be made from these statistics is that an individual from an area where more people educated to a higher level live is statistically slightly more likely to have voted remain. "Slightly more likely" being the key statement. This has been misused, alongside the unfortunate existence of a tiny minority of genuinely racist people who would naturally be opposed to immigration because of their racist views, to pedal the disgraceful idea that all brexiteers are racist morons. I appreciate the previous statement I am responding to was caveated but the intent was very clear. Oh, and this all assumes intelligence can purely be measured by education level which is a while new topic.

Re: Brexit - Pete (26th Mar 2019 - 07:38:50) Peters statement may be a bit general but lets face it he probably has a point.

Re: Brexit - IGS (26th Mar 2019 - 08:24:57) Oh dear, this issue is so decisive it is difficult to see how the country will come together. Clearly the diehards on both sides of the debate are unlikely to meet so compromise and resolution is extremely unlikely. From my perspective the initial referendum was poorly organised and was in its structure unlikely to give either side a clear mandate. No one can really argue that the country definitivly voted for either leave or remain which is why we have such difficulties now. Our best hope lies with the moderate middle ground but to move forward we really do need to once again assess the mood of the country. To me the referendum result was like a football or rugby match that was narrowly won but in the post match assessment it became clear the result was influenced by poor refereeing. Yes the result was legitimate but a rematch is the only way to get a clear result and end the debate As a minimum the people should be entitled to vote on the type of brexit we have and this should have been factored into the initial referendum process but could still be arranged

Re: Brexit - Aidy (26th Mar 2019 - 08:59:49) Bernard. Perhaps it's a bit harsh to call it ignorant, I agree. Let me say misguided instead. I think it's fair to say that the general consensus amongst Remainers is that brexiteers are mostly poorly educated racists. This is an idea that I believe was started and perpetuated by the BBC. Only last week I saw on the BBC lunchtime news some Brexit coverage where a well dressed and erudite remainer was given the opportunity to provide his thoughts on the subject. We then cut to what the announcer described as "Brexit Heartland" Bolton where they interviewed several not quite so well spoken midweek lunchtime drinkers on the subject. That's the impartial, non-agenda driven Auntie Beeb for you. And they started this whole "brexiteer = racist" agenda with the post-vote statistical analysis they did breaking down voting by region and age / education. Those statistics have been used to paint the racist brexiteer picture by the mainstream media and, in my view, this has been at least as equally pernicious as any of the lies the leave campaign used. The simple fact is these statistics are not based on fact, they're based on a correlation analysis. They don't know which way individuals voted, we weren't asked for our education standards on the voting forms were we? They simply picked an area and correlated how it voted against some education (and age) level statistics for the same area. Given that the overall votes were generally quite tight by region, it is impossible to draw any proper conclusions from this analysis. However, in as plain terms as I can put it, the true statement that can be made from these statistics is that an individual from an area where more people educated to a higher level live is statistically slightly more likely to have voted remain. "Slightly more likely" being the key statement. This has been misused, alongside the unfortunate existence of a tiny minority of genuinely racist people who would naturally be opposed to immigration because of their racist views, to pedal the disgraceful idea that all brexiteers are racist morons. I appreciate the previous statement I am responding to was caveated but the intent was very clear. Oh, and this all assumes intelligence can purely be measured by education level which is a while new topic.

Re: Brexit - oldie (26th Mar 2019 - 12:18:09) Regrexit, good morning. You ask a lot of questions "Oldie, Could you lay out for us precisely what selection, numbers and criteria post-brexit immigration targets would be enforced in reality? What measures would post-brexit UK take against mass exodus of desperate third-world regions? Who would pay for that? Who will have the unenviable job saying 'no' to desperate victims and children (the EU facilitated that for us so far)? Who would prevent Scotland from welcoming EU nationals? Who will control the NI border? who will pay for that? " OK here's my answers. 1) A vacancy must exist that can't be filled by any UK worker after reasonable effort, be of benefit to Britain (fulfil a skills shortage, ie technology etc) and pay over 30,000, no quotas necessary. This policy post Brexit should be followed hand in hand with policies to guide British youngsters into studying for qualifications where a skills gap is identified or is expected (especially tech, sciences etc). 2) Q. regarding British measures that will be taken against mass exodus of desperate third world regions. Answer: British government is not responsible for, nor is it desirable for UK govt to take any direct unilateral 'action' against mass exodus of third world regions. It would be wrong and patronising to think Britain must step in and take over internal policy of every 'third world country' (your term, not mine, it's very condescending), far less pursue any more of our disastrous 'interventionist' strategies using force. But we should offer support to help those countries governments sort out their own mess as trading partners and friends. 3) Q. Who would pay for that? Answer: As per answer above, it should be reciprocal, trade, investment etc, not patronising or high minded or guilt driven due to our ancestors ‘abuses in the 1700 or 1800s’. 4) Q. Who will have the unenviable task of saying 'no' to desperate victims...? Answer no-one, we let desperate victims in as always. In fact, due to massive reduction in numbers of economic migrants after we leave the EU, looking to undercut our workers, we can afford to be much more welcoming to genuinely desperate victims fleeing persecution to the first country of safe refuge as per our international refugee obligations (if that’s France I’m OK with that, it’s still a safe country, probably safer than much of Britain). 5) Q. ...and children (as up till now) the EU facilitated that for us? Answer: it depends on the truthfulness of their case. ie if they're desperately fleeing Calais and are really 22 and we don't know where they're parents are, we really ought to use our brains on that. I mean France is becoming a bit of a crime infested dive, but we can't allow everyone who wants to flee it to come and be housed here, would you agree? Surely the great EU can sort out their internal migrants using their own superb people management skills? 6) Who would prevent Scotland from welcoming EU nationals? Now you're just being silly. 7) Who will control the NI border? who will pay for that? Answer: to be decided see backstop. But in reality, a few old men and a couple of landrovers would be a big improvement on what we have now (and no I'm not volunteering) Finally your list of '10 of the best things the EU do for workers' is very fine as far as these '10 of the best' clickbait lists go, but it misses the reality. I worked from the 70s recession on and was never ordered to do overtime unpaid until recently, at worst I chose to stay late to complete a project, I was never told to, whereas today most workers are struggling to leave work on time at all, less and less having any employment protection at all, that's what happens when you artificially create a massive oversupply in low paid workers, see the Peasants Revolt of 1381,(I remember it well of course), or better still read up on how workers conditions and pay improved after the Black Death by 4 times due to reduced availability of manpower (man as in mankind, don’t get upset ladies), this is an extreme example, but the point is that less low skilled workers improves both pay and conditions of the remaining (in this case indigenous) workers as they become more sought after, better appreciated and hence better looked after. Look at how the TGWU and other unions are taking rogue employers to court in the British courts for illegal employment practices, fake self employment etc and winning the cases in British Courts, not EU courts, wages and conditions have never been worse for most British workers, it has been a downward spiral and don't forget most voters voted to leave the EU, it wasn’t because the most immigration friendly country on earth has suddenly become ‘racist’ as some people suggest. We will continue to have one of the most immigration friendly policies on earth, far more welcoming than just about anywhere in Asia, Africa, America or even most of present day Europe. Remainers can try all they like with their dismissive bullying tactics like Peters little ditty about not everyone who voted to leave is racist, but everyone who is racist voted to leave, we can call the silent majority gammons (ie racial slur) or whatever, the majority rarely march, they are too busy working long hours, raising kids and trying to pay off the mortgage on ever increasing house prices and sitting in longer and longer jams trying to get to and from work. Jacob; I appreciate you are worried for your sons future as we all are or have been for our children, we may differ on what we think is the best course of action, but not on our aims, that's why we must continue to hear each other’s opinions (they are all just opinions, no one really knows) and thanks for spelling my name right, it is indeed oldie, not Oldie as so many wrongly assume! It would be a shame if your son has to leave Britain to pursue a career in engineering, I hope he doesn't and Britain starts focussing more on engineering, technology, manufacturing, exporting some of the areas we used to be world leaders in. Anyway, must get back to work now all, apparently the boss says I’m here till midnight on 50p an hour, the joys of being a self-employed office boy in London, can’t wait for Brexit.

Re: Brexit - Bernard (26th Mar 2019 - 13:16:09) Aidy, you say "pedal the disgraceful idea that all brexiteers are racist morons". These are your words. Both Peter and myself stated that not all leavers are racist. Re the BBC - given that their leading political interviewer on the agenda-setting Today programme is a confessed leaver, I don't accept your argument. He asks the Irish PM why will Eire not also leave the EU to help us, like somehow they are the problem and then chums up to the likes of Rees-Mogg. It turns my stomach.

Re: Brexit - Aidy (26th Mar 2019 - 18:06:30) Bernard. Why mention it then? You're clearly trying to create a narrative with this. The point I am making is that the proportion of people voting leave who are genuinely racist is tiny. It's been made out to be far more than it is and you're dead right, it has created an unpleasant, and I believe unwarranted, identity problem for brexiteers. Remainers seem to enjoy jumping on this particular bandwagon, it's a solid stick for beating with, along with the age thing (older people with more experience have now been branded as definitely knowing less by the remain campaign) and the education red herring. You'll believe what suits your agenda though, that's part of human nature. But you're wrong to label the vast majority of leavers as racist in any way. My breakdown of the stats used to create this idea proves that.

Re: Brexit - Bernard (26th Mar 2019 - 19:12:52) Once again Aidy you are putting words in the mouths of others to exaggerate your narrative. No-one said "the vast majority of leavers are racist". That said, how do you know that the amount of racists who support leave is tiny? Anecdotally, I see much xenophobia around, on Facebook, below-the-line in online news and plenty in the press. The proportion of those in the UK as a whole who voted leave based on genuine (but misguided) economic or constitutional reasoning is, I suspect, not as high as you think. Many who voted leave did so because their newspaper told them to, after printing lies about Europeans repeated over 30 years. Others did so to give David Cameron a good kicking after six years of austerity. And yes, some people voted leave because they are xenophobic or racist. I'm not suggesting that you are one of the bad guys Aidy, I'm just saying that when remainers see abuse and violent threats coming from 'the other side', is it any wonder that it reinforces their views of leavers and entrenches their opinions.

Re: Brexit - Aidy (27th Mar 2019 - 11:17:51) Once again, Bernard, you say I am wrong to suggest that many Remainers believe people who voted leave to be racist. You never respond to me asking why you keep bringing the subject up though - why continue to highlight it? "Pete" said "Peter" had a point. I have acknowledged that both you and Peter caveated your statements but you have clearly stated that you believe Peter makes a fair point. I am challenging that assertion. I honestly don't see any abuse or threats coming from what I believe to be the silent majority of leavers. All I see is verbal abuse from Remainers to leavers calling them uneducated, selfish, old and racist. As I have fruitlessly tried to explain to you, the stain of racism has been successfully applied to leavers by the remain campaign and you're doing nothing but perpetuate that. This is why the country is split, this is why you don't see thousands of leavers on marches who don't want to either be linked with what has been tarred as a racist agenda or attract the real racists to the march. If you're right and there are more racists than I might believe then this county is fundamentally broken anyway. And I simply don't believe that. I accept that the majority of racists voted leave but I do not accept that their numbers are significant and I dreadful the idea that I'm wrong.

Re: Brexit - Pete (27th Mar 2019 - 12:38:12) Oldie, Very eloquently put right up until the last paragraph where you let yourself down by being dragged into the mire when you imply that only leavers work long hours etc.

Re: Brexit - Bernard (27th Mar 2019 - 12:45:04) I don't keep bringing it up Aidy. Peter raised it, you then accused him of being ignorant and a couple of us then pulled you up on that. I am then countering your assertion that remainers are causing the divide with racism accusations. I'm not the one being a little touchy about this. I don't understand how you can challenge Peter's assertion. I saw the same point being made by Will Self to leaver MP Mark Francois on the telly recently. Francois couldn't understand it either. Of course some, but certainly not all, people who voted leave are racist. Racist people are highly unlikely to have voted remain. That is not a narrative; that is not twisting the facts to suit an agenda. It is a statement of the obvious. For evidence, take a look at UKIP now - it is unashamedly Islamophobic under its current leadership and even in the past they were often having to make a point of censuring wayward local representatives for racist comments. I'm afraid this is more prevalent than you think and I find that thought as dreadful as you do. Perhaps you might want take a look below-the-line on Brexit stories in Britain's best-selling newspapers' websites. You might find it an eye-oipener. If what you see is remainers being abusive and cannot see all the racism and xenophobia everywhere online and in the press then you and I are clearly not going to agree on this subject at all and it is not really worth us perpetuating this; it will be a never-ending thread.

Re: Brexit - Aidy (27th Mar 2019 - 15:43:52) I honestly don't think you're reading my posts properly Bernard so I'm going to quit while I'm behind. I was simply attempting to demonstrate a belief that the vast majority of the 17 million leave voters are NOT racist. Clearly that's not something you're willing to accept.

Re: Brexit - Penny Williamson (27th Mar 2019 - 17:00:52) I agree with Aidy – Bernard is just not understanding Aidy’s posts. I am a Brexiteer and in my opinion, not a racist. We need immigration – as has oft been said – the National Health and Care Homes, to name but two areas of employment – could not survive without immigrants. What I suspect the majority of Leavers did want and therefore voted to leave, was to take back control over our borders and our laws – to say who we want to work and live in our Sovereign Country, like many other countries. That is what I voted for and the Remainers just cannot grasp the concept. Instead many of them spread damaging rumours without any proof about Brexiteers and Racism. Parliament which now seems to have control, thanks to Gina Miller (big mistake) who was the original instigator, are not listening – the majority of people now whether they are Remainers or Brexiteers want closure on this ie agree to the withdrawal agreement now on the table. Nobody said it is perfect - it's not - it's a compromise. The Country is suffering ergo so are the people in it. The longer this is prolonged, the more damage is being done. We are leaving so let us just get on with it.

Re: Brexit - Bernard (27th Mar 2019 - 19:09:25) I fully understand and have read Aidy's posts, Penny, I just don't agree with them. The sovereignty argument is nonsense. When you are in a beneficial international arrangement, there are some compromises. As a member of NATO, we are bound to defend other members of NATO if they are threatened. That means we have ceded a little bit of sovereignty to NATO - part of our right as a nation to fully determine our defence policy has been given away. It's the same principle. I guess Leavers will be wanting us to exit that next. I suppose at least it would be consistent. Heaven preserve us. We are already a sovereign country. That's how we were able to trigger Article 50, for example. Only a sovereign nation could pass a law to do that. As for saying that Parliament holding a minority government to account is a big mistake - these are our elected representatives! The UK public voted for these people in 2017, subsequent to the referendum. That is democracy - parliamentary democracy. Just watching on TV as this awful Conservative Government plays party politics with our future. The PM has just offered to stand down in order to get her deal 'over the line'. Those Torys who are u-turning tonight and planning to vote for her deal (having previously said it is worse than remaining) are not doing so not because they suddenly believe that this deal is best for the country, but for the sake of keeping a few thousand Tory members happy. They really don't care about you or I. I voted for them in the past. Never, ever again.

Re: Brexit - A.R (27th Mar 2019 - 19:16:22) Do many know why we joined ? Edward Heath took us into the common market for trading. But Harold Wilson was urged to warn the British people that European membership would be a "gross infringement of sovereignty". He called a referendum in 1975 and put it to the people. They said stay in. No second referendum. See where I am going here ? He was right , and now the Labour party are playing politics with this country just to try and get in to government, when their supporters mostly voted out. Trading with partnerships is totally different to a parliament that is not needed.

Re: Brexit - Regrexit (27th Mar 2019 - 19:30:01) 'Sovereign Country'? How about a country who's destiny is decided by a hard-line political party of a small province (DUP) who have been steering the negotiations? Sounds more like tyranny to me. The DUP who don't give a toss what Brexit is all about as long as they are in the UK... A Tory party pushed around by certain backbenchers with clear business/property interests in a bad brexit? More like a sovereign banana republic. A sovereign country with such a perfect government that parliament has had to take over? A sovereign country that doesn't know what it wants. A sovereign country desperately adopting EU standards and regulations, even from outside the membership. A withdrawal agreement so good, the producer must be fired. The sovereignty promised by the Leave campaign is an aspiration Brexit will not deliver. Post Brexit UK will have all the freedom to weave protracted and expensive new trade deals as a small fragment of what used to be part of a hefty union trade negotiator. The UK will be putty in the hands of third party nations (China, US etc.). The UK had considerable freedom to trade with third party nations from within the EU (e.g. Italy-China). 'Just get on with it', 'closure'? Nothing like that. Whatever the outcome of 2016, the nation will be divided and rioting for quite a while to come. Brexit achieved / delayed / cancelled – the bitter debate is here for the long ride. The Brexit vote that was meant to redress voters – leaders relationship had brought the opposite. It had brought us to new lows generally and particularly peoples' trust in parliament. Even if we do not look outside to the UK's now international reputation, it is a very sad story internally, here, for us in the UK, now and for the future.

Re: Brexit - Regrexit (28th Mar 2019 - 06:00:23) A.R, Following your reasoning suggesting that most Labour voters voted Remain and Labour is playing party politics: Strange that how the Labour party do not fight for Remain. There seems to be a flaw in your argument. Going back to 1975. Those who (foolishly) believed that a membership in a club would not require any compromises have now foolishly believed the lies/empty aspiration of the Leave campaign. No such thing as a free lunch. That applies to being a member as well as for being a Leaver. Brexit already had, and will cost us so much more than our EU membership.

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