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Local Talkback
Talkback is for the residents and businesses in Liphook to voice their views and opinions about local issues and events.

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Parish Council Elections 2019
- Anon2 (6th Mar 2019 @ 06:56:12)

I stumbled across this when I was checking the dates for the next elections. I was really surprised to see that there is less than a month until nomination papers have to be in and we have not heard anything about this locally.

www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- Phelim McIntyre (8th Mar 2019 @ 13:19:39)

May be the current Council are so sure of the threat to their power with the ongoing charges against Jerrard, with so many having supported him, they are frightened that people will rise up and vote them off.

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- Penny (8th Mar 2019 @ 16:44:30)

It is not really a question of “voting them off”. In order to be successful in making sure the “trouble makers” do not get elected in May enough people would have to stand and poll more votes than they do – this is always supposing they will stand for election in May. If enough people do not stand for election– there are 12 vacancies – then the “trouble makers”, if they are standing again, will automatically get on the Parish Council by default as there would be no election.

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- BT (9th Mar 2019 @ 09:16:17)

Where can I find a list of who is standing for the elections with a clear ( short) statement of what their interests and aims are for the locality ?

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- Keith (9th Mar 2019 @ 09:49:30)

A full list of persons nominated will be available on the EHDC website from 4th April 2019.

This will simply be a list of persons nominated (and where appropriate the political party they represent).

The Herald usually runs a couple of pages on the lead up to the elections with a photo of each candidate and a couple of paragraphs from each candidate on what they stand for. As far as I'm aware there is no online source you can go to which provides this sort of information.

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- Penny (9th Mar 2019 @ 10:17:30)

A list of candidates standing for election in May will be published after the closing date for nominations. The closing date I think is 32 days before Polling Day. Each candidate should publish an election address after this date which usually gives details of their background, family, business, aims for the parish etc etc. Some candidates will have been on the parish/district council and will be standing again so one could read minutes published over the past 4 years and also see on which committees they have been serving. In the case of Cllr Jerrard, and I don’t know whether he will be standing again, he has been found guilty by The Governance, Audit & Scrutiny Sub-Committee on 6 out of 7 breaches of the Members Code of Conduct which speaks for itself although I doubt whether he will put this in his election address.

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- John (9th Mar 2019 @ 11:20:00)

Sometimes it is easy to label people trouble makers. It is not the school playground and perhaps letting the status quo go unchallenged is not a good idea.
That way it is easy for a dictatorship to exist.

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- KT (9th Mar 2019 @ 21:03:03)

There are 12 seats on Liphook Parish Council and if 12 or less people put their names forward then those people will be automatically elected with no opportunity for residents to vote. This means that it is likely that Jerrard and his small clique may well get elected again.

So what we need are more than 12 putting their names forward so we at least get a choice and have a vote.

If anyone is in any doubt whether Jerrard deserves to be elected then please have a look at the link below:
easthants.moderngov.co.uk/ieDecisionDetails.aspx?ID=106

Also take note of the fact that he keeps saying that he is ill and can't attend meetings etc due to stress. Not much use really if you're going to be representing your community (actually in his case he doesn't live here so he can't really represent what he doesn't know).

The date to get nominations in is 3rd April. If anyone is thinking of standing then they can contact EHDC Electoral Services or phone the Parish Office in Liphook who will be able to give out information. Election notices should also be posted on Friday 22nd March and hopefully these will be on all the noticeboards and will contain information about how to apply.

Let's hope we get a parish council that will give us what we need and deserve!

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- john (9th Mar 2019 @ 23:16:50)

The Parish council has very little power. Perhaps " Giving us what we need" is a very broad statement, the District Council has a lot more power they are the ones giving us more and more houses make no mistake, not the Parish Council. Is that really what we need?

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- Dawn Hoskins (12th Mar 2019 @ 14:30:41)

Unfortunately, those labelled as 'trouble makers' are often the minority who are sticking to their guns about an issue which they are passionate about. It doesn't make them trouble, it does mean that they have stood on a particular platform and won't be budged from it.

Our Parish Council does' in truth' have very little real power, however, this fact will not stop petty-minded people focused on getting their own way from kicking up a stink when their agendas are blocked - regardless of how 'small' their agendas are.

Sadly, these are the 'stories' that reach the local rag and consequently the reason that the reputation of the Parish Council is often dragged through the mire. Also, the same reason that right-minded people in the village won't stand for election. a lot of work, a lot of people stabbing you in the back to get very little achieved and all at the risk of your own personal reputation being destroyed and for ZERO remuneration.

It really has got to the point where instead of asking why people don't want to stand (obvious), you have to ask what connections every candidate has with all of the main property owners and house builders in the area and therefore have the knowledge [upfront] what agendas and what bits of land they are there to fight for houses on.

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- John (13th Mar 2019 @ 00:18:11)

I do not think it is the Parish Councillors who have the land agendas, but the district councillors. They will never come clean on their interests, in the same way they do not make very public their Limited Company started and funded with council tax payers money which bought thr OSU
business site amongst other things, because no other company was interested to buy and build on it.

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- KT (13th Mar 2019 @ 16:37:20)

I think Dawn Hoskins post shows a complete lack of understanding about what a parish councillor does if she really thinks that the most important thing to know about potential councillors is if they have allegiances to particular property developers. There are certain people on the council who share her view but this is such a negative, uninformed view. From the councillors that I know they have no allegiances to any property developers and neither did the ones that have recently resigned. But that particular line suits particular councillors and they keep banging on about it.

What is far more important surely is that individuals stand as councillors who really want to make a difference in their community - the parish council is about so much more than housing and development. Don't forget that the parish council is only a consultee on planning applications and does not decide them - that's a job for the district council.

What is more important surely is the emerging Neighbourhood Plan, the public open spaces owned and run by the parish council, the Milennium Centre and events run there for the benefit of the village, the parish office which provides an information resource, the spending of developers contributions for the benefit of the community, working with other community organisations to provide services in the village, and so on? I'd llike to see people stand as councillors who have a keen interest in some or all of these things.

It's such a shame that the parish council has got such a bad name but you have to ask yourself when did it acquire this bad name? Was it about the same time as particular councillors were elected back in 2011 who brought much unrest and turned the council upside down in their quest to fire the then Clerk? Are these the same councillors that are still serving now who are failing to turn up to meetings and clearly have their own agendas as they seem to have nothing to contribute other than causing trouble for others? Look at the resignations over the last year - decent hard working councillors who couldn't take the barrage of abuse they suffered.

What it needs is a whole new bunch of councillors coming forward who can bring about real change. We really need to have an election and we will only get that if more than 12 people put their names forward so I would urge anyone thinking about it to do so. If this doesn't happen the council will just continue to limp along making little progress for another 4 years.


Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- ex-pc (14th Mar 2019 @ 12:26:10)

KT
I think you’’ find that Dawn Hoskins was a councillor for a few years and has a very good understanding of what it is a bout.
You aksed about the bad name – for that you only have to ask the staff whov worked for the PC [or did] over the last few years.
Theyre lives were made absolute hell, many lbeing made sick with stress after being bullied and may just walking our who. At the same time the sme person who was making their lives bl**dy hell, was making money claims left right and centre to top u[ his wages and making formal complaints about anyone who tried to stand up to him.
Maybe make a feedom of imofmation reqest for how many ficticitous claims he made and how much money he made out of the council by threatening to use thme. Or – even better, make a request for the documents which your all paied for out fo your taxes for the investigations into him. Anything paid for out of our taxes is a public document so you have all rights to ask for it. I expc they’’ take out everyones names so you can’t understand it properly but you would at elast get to the truth of the pure bl**dy hell that everyone at the PC went through at the time and understand how the PC got a bad reputation.

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- Dawn Hoskins (14th Mar 2019 @ 13:09:45)

Hi KT – I don’t know you’re real name – but I will continue to use mine.

I was a Parish Councillor for BLPC so have very good insight. My position remains unchanged at the moment with regards to vested interests into property deals and plonking hundreds more houses in Liphook.

It is my understanding that we currently have people involved with both the Parish Council and the Neighbourhood Plan who are employed by property developers or live in housing provided to them at peppercorn rents by property developers.

When people/councillors have objected to this they have been ‘closed down’.

This is a totally unacceptable situation.

It is, and always has been, imperative that anyone connected to any decision (with even a remote connection to any decision being made) must recuse themselves. [Not take part]. This is administrative law which has been relied on for hundreds of years to protect the public from biased decision making and must stand in relation to any decisions which the public could reasonably draw a conclusion that connected-persons were biased.

It is also my understanding that some councillors have been prevented from either accessing meetings or accessing information. It is imperative that all councillors have full access to all information. No one should be banned or have their access prohibited because they hold a different opinion, particularly with regard to planning issues.

Our District Councillors are outspoken in their support of building evermore housing, and in particular, wanting to build on the SDNP. Although this is disagreeable, it is understandable as central government wants all councils to build more housing.

However, it is up to the Parish Council to draw the line in the sand. As head of EHDC [Ferris Cowper] once said: “Liphook is Full”. Enough is enough.

Our Parish Councillors need to have enough backbone to stand up for what they personally believe without fear of reprisal. More importantly, our Parish Councillors must ensure that the council adheres to what administrative law dictates and, sadly, anyone doing that at the moment is accused of either derailing meetings, or being a bully.

We have seen a sad return to the days when everyone crept about in fear of yet another legal threat or formal complaint being made about them [both councillors and employees alike]. This is an incredible waste of everyone’s time, but also costs thousands of pounds.

When I left the PC, it had been transformed from a hideous toxic environment to a really collegiate and supportive place, in which the staff were finally happy after many years of being traumatised. We went from the laughing stock who regularly had stories fed to the local rag from the same source which were, quite honestly, a journalistic travesty, full of one-sided poison – to a regular Parish Council with contented staff and a proactive team of volunteers. It did take time to do this and effectively create a root and branch transformation which instilled and promoted respect, but we achieved it.

I don’t know what the answer is, I truly don’t. As a Parish, we have many assets that need to be maintained and staffed – so it is better for us to do this as local people who are directly affected by changes in our neighbourhoods. However, we have now moved into a period of apathy and general disinterest. People seem ‘too busy’ to be interested and the dwindling teams of volunteers we do have [not just parish councillors, but Bloomers and litter pickers etc] are constantly ‘second-guessed’ by people who have never been to a meeting, never turned up to lend a hand, but are quite happy to slag them off at every opportunity.

It is the exact definition of a thankless task. However, it is even worse than not being thanked - because you are likely to get ‘slated’ for even showing up and having an opinion.

I truly don’t know how to fix it.

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- Penny (14th Mar 2019 @ 14:03:20)

Dawn this is a serious allegation ie quote "It is my understanding that we currently have people involved with both the Parish Council and the Neighbourhood Plan who are employed by property developers or live in housing provided to them at peppercorn rents by property developers." Have you names to verify this? Also what is your feeling about Mr Jerrard being found guilty by a completely independent body on 6 out 7 counts of breaches of The Code of Conduct ie bullying, intimidating and harassing fellow councillors. Should he not have resigned? He certainly he should not stand again.

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- Jane Ives (14th Mar 2019 @ 14:44:15)

I am personally appalled at Dawn Hoskins post accusing parish councillors and NDP members of wrong doing. In all my time on the council (which is much more recent than yours Dawn) I saw no evidence of this and nor do I believe it to be true. I was also on the working party who approved NDP steering group members and I can assure you they were properly vetted.
If what you say is true then clearly you should be reporting this to the Clerk of the council for starters and to EHDC if you're talking about a councillor.
I will say hand on heart that I don't believe this to true and to make unfounded accusations on a public website is quite frankly in appalling bad taste.

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- john (14th Mar 2019 @ 20:31:07)

A previous poster on here has said that people should not concentrate on worrying about councillor's property connections, it did not matter. You cannot have it both ways, either it is important or it is not.

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- ben (14th Mar 2019 @ 20:59:10)

IT is worse now than it has ever been

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- Anon2 (15th Mar 2019 @ 07:51:38)

KT, I entirely agree with you.

Many of us could see the crash coming when the new crew came on board some years ago. The train is upside down and damaged beyond repair and the track is mangled. The passengers are fed up with the train failing to stop at stations and then screeching to a halt in the middle of nowhere without explanation and there is no WiFi! The crew will not listen and most of them are temporary replacements anyway. Some of them ignore announcements and constantly argue about which way to go at the next set of points. After a secret discussion, the driver then makes the wrong choice and tells the passengers it’s too bad anyway. The guard is bewildered and does nothing about it, looking like a frightened rabbit caught in a set of headlights. Understandably, some of the crew down tools and get off at the next station.

How to fix it - new company, new train, new track, new timetable and most importantly a completely new crew who are interested in the passengers. We have a vote but need to use it wisely.

Dawn Hoskins, could you provide us with the evidence in support of what appears to be a quite outrageous statement. Your root and branch transformation failed miserably because the tree was full of decay.


Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- Dawn Hoskins (15th Mar 2019 @ 12:28:29)

Legal confidentiality prevents me from elaborating further. Suffice it to say, based on the facts that we are all given and the input we all receive – we are all entitled to reach our own conclusions.

We all need to be able to detach fact from personal attachments. Just because a friend tells you something – it does not make it true etc

Unfortunately, on threads such as these, the people who respond most vociferously are those who already hold entrenched positions and believe-systems, not always based on facts – but who are nonetheless willing to ‘shut-down’ anyone with dissenting views.

I hold, what many people consider to be a dissenting view. The nature of a democratic society with freedom of speech is both a benefit and a curse – it enables vitriolic and poisonous speech, internet trolls and anonymous keyboard comment – but it also allows me to state my conclusions and opinions regardless of the outrage it may cause some.

It is also the reason most people just won’t get involved, or make any comment on threads like these – fear of harsh words in response. The same reason that people are 'turned off' politics [Parish, District, County or UK as a whole ]

I don’t agree with the comment by Anon2 about the root and branch change that was accomplished as being a failure. If a system is working properly it is incumbent on those inheriting the working system to keep it working. You cannot say that it was not working before; only that is has been broken again now.

[Maybe you should ask the staff as one previous poster has inferred - they have an inside line on most of the goings on at the council and although they may not post here - they are all quite easy to find].

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- Another Resident (15th Mar 2019 @ 17:18:08)

Well... I have heard it all now. Over the last few years I have come to the conclusion that there is a core in the parish council that is rotten. Having been to several meetings there are definitely those that seem to have an agenda.

When it comes down to housing developments I have seen the most appalling attitudes that really have made me wonder.

I have had dealings with our District councillors and have found them the most helpful of people. I have nothing but faith in them.

Again it comes down to those preventing anything being built in the National park when it was plainly obvious that the majority of people favoured it and not have developments built further out of Liphook.

As for saying no more housing in Liphook. Ideally no, but is it going to happen ? As sure as the sun comes up tomorrow.

I have seen these parish councillors with my own eyes at a meeting in Midhurst a few years ago. They basically over ruled what the District councillors and what the public preferred, including I might add doctors too.
As to why, this has been a burning question I can not fathom.

Is Dawn Hoskins right ? How legitimate are her words? if they are to be believed then this is extremely serious. She says legal confidentiality prevents her from saying more, but if it is illegal surely it should be brought into the public domain.

I wouldn't be the first one to have had thoughts on this type of agenda, so I hope there is a way for this to be checked out.

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- John (15th Mar 2019 @ 18:08:15)

I think people are comfusing a desire not to build in Liphooks corner of the
SdNp with corruption. I believe that the developers reffered to are those who
want to sell two huge pieces of land in the Park, and their close links to the District
Council. The EHDC area is a seperate planning authority and does not have any power to allow building there.That is what upsets them.

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- Penny (16th Mar 2019 @ 11:24:24)

Dawn with regard to your statement that legal confidentially prevents you from naming names I think this is absolute rubbish. It is far more likely that you are worried about libel laws because I do not believe that there are or have been people involved with the PC and the NDP who are either employed by the property developers or live in housing provided by them. I think Jane Ives, having recently been a councillor on the PC is in a far better position to know that what you say is untrue. Interestingly you use the word “people” and not “councillors”.
I entirely agree with Anon 2 regarding the “root and branch change as being a failure.” I would go further and say that the parish council is in a worse situation now than it was before. In fact I do not remember a time, after the Clerk was dismissed, when the PC was a “really collegiate and supportive place.” It was peppered with exempt and secret meetings for a start. If you seek to change anything council, government, policies or laws you have to be sure that something better will take its place. That has not happened on this parish council. As Ben said in his post “ It is worse now than it has ever been”.
You say that “Our Parish Councillors need to have enough backbone to stand up for what they personally believe without fear of reprisal. More importantly, our Parish Councillors must ensure that the council adheres to what administrative law dictates and, sadly, anyone doing that at the moment is accused of either derailing meetings, or being a bully.” Your statement demonstrates very clearly that although you have been on the PC in the past, you patently do not understand or do not want to understand what has been going on in the past 4 years. You ignore the fact that Mr Jerrard was found guilty on 6 out 7 breaches of the Code of Conduct by the Governance, Audit and Scrutiny Sub Committee. His bullying and intimidating behaviour to fellow councillors was unacceptable to say the least and cannot be justified under any circumstances whatever he was trying to prove or say. With regard to your statement that “we have now moved into a period of apathy and general disinterest”.I would say that people just get fed up with the “same old, same old” and like Brexit they just switch off. If in the May election twelve good and honest people with no hidden agendas stand and get voted on to the PC then I think we will see real change. If not things will just on as they have done in a horrible toxic environment.

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- Jane Ives (16th Mar 2019 @ 14:01:21)

Dawn I am really concerned about what you are saying here. If you say that you can't disclose information about a parish councillor because of 'legal confidentiality' then surely you must know this is not right?

As you know the office of a parish councillor is a public office and every councillor has to disclose any pecuniary interest. This information is publicly available on both the parish council and district council websites. The link to Bramshott & Liphook parish councillors pecuniary interests is here:
http://easthants.moderngov.co.uk/mgParishCouncilDetails.aspx?ID=266&LS=6

Using this link you can access all of the pecuniary (financial) interests of every parish councillor. The only one who has a link to a potential development site is Cllr Trotter who lives on Bohunt Manor land - the much disputed piece of land in the national park. This means that Cllr Trotter should not be taking part in any discussion or commenting on any matters relating to this piece of land.

If what you are saying is true Dawn, and a councillor has failed to disclose something then I strongly suggest this is reported to the Monitoring Officer at EHDC to investigate. This would be the correct course of action rather than making a sweeping statement on a public website about councillors in general.

(To ensure complete transparency, NDP Steering Group members were also asked to complete similar paperwork but theirs is not a public office and therefore it should not be in the public domain but it is vetted).

You also say the following:
"We all need to be able to detach fact from personal attachments. Just because a friend tells you something – it does not make it true etc". If you have facts and evidence to support your claims then please take it to the correct authority. If you have heard this from a friend and it is hearsay then maybe you should check these facts before posting here.

As many will know I resigned from the parish council last year but I do not believe that there are parish councillors/NDP steerig group members with undeclared pecuniary interests and I do not feel it is appropriate to make unfounded claims on a public website like you have done.

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- Jeannie (16th Mar 2019 @ 18:14:14)

I agree heartily with Penny and Jane. I heartily disagree with Dawn's statement that the people who respond most vociferously are those who already hold entrenched positions. What a misconceived and arrogant statement. I for one do not feel I am in an "entrenched" position, but I have seen some reprehensible behaviour at parish council meetings and since Michael Croucher has taken the Chair some badly run ones, bordering on the chaotic.

Dawn also states quite rightly that freedom of speech can be a benefit or a curse as it enables vitriolic and poisonous speech, internet trolls and anonymous keyboard comment. However just because we can, does not mean we should and it is usually only the unintelligent or those with an axe to grind who stoop so low. As Jane Ives said Dawn, if you have evidence wrongdoing then report this to the appropriate authority, do not emulate the internet trolls.

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- Marian (16th Mar 2019 @ 19:57:09)

I cannot believe your posting of 15 March Dawn. Nobody posts on this website as often and as stridently as you. You have a strong opinion on many diverse subjects. On this occasion you have made allegations about parish and district councillors- then hidden behind 'legal cofidententiallity when asked to substantiate your claims. Exactly whose legal interests are you representing? I'm sure we would all be interested to know.

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- john (16th Mar 2019 @ 21:48:44)

I was concerned reading something in Jane Ive's posting? she said that Bohunt Manor was a development site? Have the SDNPA not discounted
this as a site for development ? I thought the sites were Headley Road and Chiltley Lane? 14

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- Jane Ives (17th Mar 2019 @ 10:30:41)

Sorry John that was a bit misleading. It is highly unlikely to be developed at the moment..i meant that it was a potential site and that's really more of an historic thing.

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- oldie (17th Mar 2019 @ 13:50:54)

I like the phrase currently non potential development sites, we used to call them fields, or just countryside. I say this whilst sitting in my potential development site wondering whether to plant some roses or a house. I'm lucky to be sitting here looking over the fence at my neighbours horses running around their potential development site and wondering whether to have an afternoon nap or go for a brisk walk through some of the rolling potential development areas surrounding Liphook. When we moved out of London we told the estate agent we'd like a house with a garage and a large potential development site, he said you won't go wrong with these lawns. (OK I'll stop now and have my meds). PS I'm only pulling your leg Jane I know it was a 'slip of the tongue' and I'm no stranger when it comes to that, I think folk are just a little on edge wondering whether this beautiful part of the world has recently been designated an overflow district by our lovely Tory government!

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- Jane Ives (17th Mar 2019 @ 16:09:02)

Haha Oldie don't worry I have a sense of humour :) It's a very necessary trait on this site...so is picking your words very carefully! ;)

Re: Parish Council Elections 2019
- Anon2 (17th Mar 2019 @ 16:24:46)

Dawn Hoskins, you are quite at liberty to have dissenting views. In my opinion your strident (I agree Marian), arrogant, and somewhat dictatorial tone will not find favour or influence people and probably didn’t help when you were on the Council. You appear to have no concerns over damaging people’s reputation at whatever cost, which is worrying and rather distasteful.

I am not persuaded by your cry of confidentiality which you are probably hiding under, to protect yourself from digging a deeper hole. I believe you are acting most irresponsibly if you don’t make the appropriate reports to the relevant authorities about such serious claims.

You have made no comment about Cllr Jerrard’s conduct and the recent findings made against him. Your silence in this respect is deafening. What is your view about his behaviour and conduct? Who is being banned from attending Council meetings?

I have asked around, and have found out some interesting information. Apparently, Cllr Garnett appeared on the TV programme “Homes under the Hammer” when she was doing up a property in the north. I see no relevancy in this whatsoever to your outrageous statement about property developers, if that is what you were talking abut. I do not know Cllr Garnett, but I am sure that as a retired Barrister, she would act in an honourable and professional way and have no reason to think otherwise. Also, In October 2014, the Council, which in your words was a “regular Parish Council with contented staff” paid £17,000 to a member of staff that worked in the Millennium Hall, in settlement of a dispute with the Council. It is understood this was about a failed administrative process. That was an expensive failure! Since then, significant numbers of both councillors and staff have resigned. Reasons include the pervading toxicity, bullying and harassment, the sheer unpleasantness of the environment, and frustration over lack of action by the Council.

In my opinion the Council did change in your time. It degenerated, and laid the foundation for what it is now an now a large and unseemly mess.

There is a window of opportunity to change it all at the forthcoming Parish Council elections. Let’s hope some new people will stand and there are 13 or more nominations, enough to ensure an election. We then won’t have to accept councillors being foisted on the community, and there will be a chance to vote.



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