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Local Talkback
Talkback is for the residents and businesses in Liphook to voice their views and opinions about local issues and events.

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The Tories
- josh mcgee (20th Mar 2018  21:40:28)

State schools are facing funding cuts of up to 7 percent per pupil, with working class areas disproportionately targeted.

Child Tax Credit, paid to low income households to help with the cost of bringing up children, has been limited to two children under the Tory government.

The exception to this rule are credits for twins or children born of rape – but the victim must prove they were raped, with references and "evidence".

The government also scrapped an extra payment in Child Tax Credit; it was called "family element" and was worth £545. The Tories are denying 165,000 disabled people increased benefits that are available to others.

So why does Liphook support this party?

Re: The Tories
- Sdr (21st Mar 2018  09:07:38)

I’m sorry why should more of my taxes have to go to people who choose to have multiple children they can’t afford. Limiting child benifit 2 children only is more than reasonable and discourages people from having more than what they can afford.

I have no problem with people having multiple children as long as said parents have the resources to provide for them. I fail to see why I should have to pay more money via taxes for people to have more children from parents who know full well they cannot provide for them.

Re: The Tories
- Vince (21st Mar 2018  09:30:10)

I’m sorry but what about the single mothers and fathers out there that are caring for there children as they are not old enough to go to school ?or what about disability’s that mean there needs to be round the clock care for the child or parants that have lost there jobs with no fault of there own . How is that fair on people like that?

Should someone with a disability who can’t work be told they can only have 2 kids ?? No because that is unfair and injustice . Yes there are lazy people out there that don’t want to work . But don’t assume that everyone does that .

Theresa may lives at 11 Downing Street rent free as tax payers pay for it while a housing crises why don’t we move into that topic ?.

Re: The Tories
- Debbie (21st Mar 2018  09:48:24)

Correction - Mrs May lives at number 10 Downing street, the Chancellor of the Exchequer lives at number 11.

Re: The Tories
- SDR (21st Mar 2018  11:19:28)

Being a single parent is not an excuse to not go to work. There are plenty of single parents out there who do an amazing job brining up there children without help from the state. The problem here is with the absente not contributing parent. Absente parents who do not provide for there children should have there lives made miserable by sanctions such as cancelling there driving license or having there money removed from there bank account without consent to supply for there child.

With regards to disabled people having more children that is fine as long as they can provide the resources needed to raise the children. If you are disabled and choose to have more children knowing full well your disability will prevent you from supplying what a child needs this is wrong. Its not the states job to make ends meet when you knew full well you would never be able to do this

The welfare system should only be there to support people in times of need. For example people who have lost there jobs of no fault of there own or people who are disabled which was not a result of there own actions like children with brain damage.

The welfare system should not be there to support peoples lifestyle choices. Like parents having multiple children knowing they cannot provide for or self inflicted lifestyle disabilities like alcoholism, drug abuse or obesity.

Re: The Tories
- Ian (21st Mar 2018  12:21:49)

Josh, you clearly look at the state as being some big bottomless gravy train!!

Not a huge fan of this government myself but not because of the reasons you give.

Corbyn and his communist leaning ways would be a complete disaster for the people of this country unless you are a lazy good for nothing that thinks the world owes you a living. Welfare should be for those in need, not a life choice.

Re: The Tories
- R (21st Mar 2018  13:12:36)

In this day and age, expecting the state to support multiple children does seem a bit too much.

We have all seen the stereotype of an unemployed person having more and more children until councils are forced to join houses together to accommodate them.

The government has decided that a reasonable sized family is what Child Benefit will support, and they feel that said family of two children is an acceptable number.

How many families in this day and age have more than two children? Not as many as 40 years ago.

So maybe the government picked the number based upon statistics.

But as has previously been commented, if you can afford to have more children, then go and have more, but if you cannot afford them without recourse to public funds, why should the government be forced to subsidise them.

Having a child (except in the case of rape, etc.) is a choice. No one forces a female to have sex without using effective contraception. It is not the 1950s.

A major part of female liberalisation is taking responsibility for decisions. This is one of those decisions. If you can not afford to have more than two children, then don't.

Re: The Tories
- Anon (21st Mar 2018  14:14:15)

I'd like to give you my experience of the welfare system. Up until 4 years ago, I was a successful woman - I had a (fairly) well paid job (I've worked for about 20 years), owned my own home (with a mortgage), had a car, and pets (I couldn't have children sadly). I had friends and a life.

Then, I fell ill. I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. It causes chronic pain, fatigue and I have to have chemotherapy for the rest of my life.

Over a year I lost my job; I had to sell my house (couldn't afford the mortgage); had to sell my car; gave up my beloved dog (I couldn't walk her) I used up all of my savings, and I applied for benefits.

Would you like to know what my entitlement is? I was surprised. Shocked actually. It's £80 a week. That's it. Nothing more. I genuinely do not know what I am going to do. I can't work (believe me, I want to, but my illness fluctuates - some days I'm competent and some days I can't even get out of bed, so there isn't an employer in the country who would take on that).

So. There you go. "Welfare" under the Tories.

Re: The Tories
- Mr Mason (21st Mar 2018  16:16:23)

Josh, children are expensive, if you are fit and healthy and can't afford them / give them what they need take measures not to have them.

I'm a single parent who's worked 6.5 days a week in a average job for the last four years to pay the mortgage and childcare expenses and I don't complain about these issues on Liphook Talkback.

It's about time we made it harder to get benefits without contributing. I see the bank of the A3 covered in waste products and plastic for miles, maybe people should be put to work on such tasks in exchange for these perks. It's all too easy to sit on ones backside and point the finger.

Perhaps you should run for Labour in the next local elections.


Re: The Tories
- Ian (21st Mar 2018  17:13:41)

Anon - you highlight the problem very well but are wrong to blame the Tories.

Clearly you should be giving far more support from the Welfare State and are a prime example of why we should have a Welfare State.

However, I am sure that there would be more available if the state was not so bogged down by supporting spongers and wasters that milk the system.



Re: The Tories
- Jen (22nd Mar 2018  08:41:41)

Josh, there simply is not enough money available to provide the benefits and funding that you wish for.

To provide the additional money, funding would either have to be taken away from somewhere else (where should we take it from - Healthcare? Education? Defence? Social Care? Pensions?....) or additional revenue would have to be raised through greater taxation.

Re: The Tories
- Diane (22nd Mar 2018  10:53:10)

Or the very rich should stop putting their money in offshore tax havens and pay their taxes instead

Re: The Tories
- oldie (22nd Mar 2018  11:19:27)

Jen

Of course another way to fund dignity for the sick would be for the Tories (or whoever is in power) to go get all those trillions of UK taxpayers money secretly stuffed away in British tax payer funded foreign tax havens like the BVI etc

But strangely they seem reluctant on that one, too close to home for our politicians perhaps?

Think of all that money that the super rich have evaded tax on (or avoided tax on because it's only evasion if it's made illegal, which clearly it should be, but isn't for the reason given above!)

Then, in conjunction with strict enforcement of benefit cheats, we could once again have a system to be proud of.

Re: The Tories
- Penny (22nd Mar 2018  11:21:54)

Totally agree with posts from sdr, Ian, R and Mr Mason. We are becoming more and more of a “Nanny State” and all this is doing is encouraging people not to take responsibility for themselves. The knock-on effect of this is that the people who really need the help and support are not getting enough and sometimes not at all because there are so many spongers out there.
The words “single parent” really annoy me. There is no such thing except in the case of one parent dying which does not apply to the majority. If a parent is bringing up a child single-handedly and the other parent is living, it just means one parent has opted out.
It is all to easy to blame the Conservatives. However flawed they are they are still a much better alternative to the hyprocritical Labour party led by Jeremy Corbyn, the self confessed Marxist and Russian sympathiser. If the Labour party get to power they will bankrupt the Country within a very short time. They have done it before – remember the day Alistair Darling was told by the Bank of England that there was NO MORE MONEY and their doors would be closed at 12pm unless more money was printed – it is called quantitative easing - £50billion emergency package. This was the man and I quote:
"In May 2009, The Daily Telegraph reported that Darling changed the designation of his second home four times in four years, allowing him to claim for the costs of his family home in Edinburgh, and to buy and furnish a flat in London including the cost of stamp duty and other legal fees. Darling said that "the claims were made within House of Commons rules". He is meant to be a socialist - Nothing has changed.

Re: The Tories
- Mrs (22nd Mar 2018  15:02:34)

Penny.

Re your quote about Alister Darling:

It not just Labour. I’m sure the Tories are not whiter than white.

Re: The Tories
- Penny (22nd Mar 2018  15:26:56)

Mrs I never said the Tories were.whiter than white. As I said in my previous post they are a flawed party as are human beings The Tories don't tend to cloak themselves in so much piety and selflessness as the Labour Party - I liken the Labour to so-called Christians who do not practice what they preach. Do as I say not as I do. Better not to preach in the first place. The Tories recognise that in order to generate jobs, full employment and wealth you have to have a healthy economy and in order to do that wealth has to be created and some people will make a great deal more money than others. So what and by the way it is not only the rich who avoid paying taxes - many others in all walks of life are equally guilty of this. It is called the Black Economy. Labour is a hypocritical party based on envy and greed. They resent anyone making money even though it benefits others. Smacks of Communism - have you ever read Animal Farm by George Orwell?

Re: The Tories
- Katie (22nd Mar 2018  18:03:24)

So many people on this thread have fallen for the 'benefit scum' rhetoric.

Politicians love a scapegoat.

Don't forget those immigrants coming over here to steal our jobs/prop up our economy.

Oldie has it right.

Re: The Tories
- oldie (22nd Mar 2018  18:42:55)

Penny, personally I've never agreed with the school of thought that a hypocrite can't tell others what's right or wrong. In fact to take Christians as your given example, they admit that they are all sinners (hence they need god's forgiveness to be redeemed) and that doesn't therefore make them ineligible to preach to the rest of us, rather it makes them better qualified!

Same with politicians, we know in the main that they're all up to no good, yet every once in a while one gets caught out and we all sound shocked, wondering what right he/she has to tell the rest of us (righteous people) what to do. Actually it makes them no different to everyone else (ie imperfect human beings) and often better qualified on the basis at least we now know their faults and they are walking the walk whilst we sit at home carping.

Anyway, what annoys me more is people apathy and the old fashioned cliché "never discuss politics or religion", that's such a pathetic copout that's designed to leave the path clear for the charlatans, cosy cabals and political apathy.

Whatever your political opinion I'd rather people got engaged, agreed, disagreed, demanded, protested, got mad or whatever, but did it with a degree of intelligence and civility, like on here!

Re: The Tories
- Jack (22nd Mar 2018  20:31:46)

Oh Josh, what have you done! If you attempt to raise points about this incompetent and uncaring government on Liphook Talkback you know you will be hit with a barrage of hard-right views.

Expect plenty about the 'nanny state", "not enough to go round" etc. Expect them to ignore the fact that eye-watering amounts of money can be found when it shores-up Conservative Party interests. The hard-right are so emboldened now that traditional centralist politics is some way off, I'm afraid.




Re: The Tories
- Penny (23rd Mar 2018  14:51:04)

Oldie, what a very odd school of thought. Are you saying that because someone is a sinner, admits it and asks for forgiveness that gives them the right to preach and criticise others. Try telling that to someone – it is not OK for you to do that, but it is OK for me because I know it is wrong, but I have asked for forgiveness so that makes it alright. Crazy.
Jack, perhaps the words “nanny state” and “not enough to go round” are constantly repeated because they are true.
With regard to the money paid to the DUP by the Conservatives, if the Conservatives hadn’t got them on board they could not govern which would probably have meant a Labour Government under Corbyn. I wish the money hadn’t been spent but anything is better than a Corbyn led government. The thought of having Corbyn leading this Country fills me with horror – already we have dictators in Russia, China a North Korea and a seriously unhinged man leading America. Do we really want a Russian loving sympathiser as Prime Minister? At least May for all her faults is standing up to Russia and making headway for Brexit in spite of the relentless barrage of criticism that she faces on a daily basis. Before anyone says we have had to give way on many things to reach agreement for the transition stage, as has been said many times nothing is agreed until everything is agreed and it is the end result that will count.

Re: The Tories
- josh mcgee (23rd Mar 2018  15:02:28)

Since 2010, the number of police officers has fallen by 19,668. Researchers say funding cuts to the NHS and social care system could be linked to 30,000 "excess deaths" (an argument the government refuted as "a triumph of personal bias over research.The Tories are denying 165,000 disabled people increased benefits that are available to others.David Cameron referred to £450,000 homes as "affordable" – a very good sign of how out of touch the party is with the majority of the population.

So I am sorry but I do agree the Tories are to blame !!!!

Re: The Tories
- Penny (23rd Mar 2018  17:37:07)

Josh do you really think Labour could do better? All they do is borrow, borrow, borrow and bankrupt the country. Look at the history - Labour was in power from 1997 to 2010 and look what happened in 2008. Wilson was quoted often as saying 13 years of Tory misrule. I think that rather fits the Labour party during that time. While Labour was in power there was the Iraq war in 2003 - an illegal war started by Blair and Bush and now look at the mess Iraq is in. I could go on. I have never said the Conservatives are perfect they are just a better alternative to any other party at the moment however flawed you think they are.

Re: The Tories
- Jack (23rd Mar 2018  18:10:34)

Phrases like 'nanny state' are simply soundbites that the right like to throw around, that have no real meaning and are entirely subjective. It is the stock-in-trade of the Daily Mail.

Penny, your point about the Conservatives having to pay off the DUP as a necessary evil to keep out the competition is quite unseemly. Using public money - your taxes and mine - for a completely ideological purpose is unreasonable. You may not like Labour, and I'm not Labour myself, but many British people have decided that their vision of our future is right for them. One party using public money to see-off another, when there is not enough police, access to healthcare is poorer than anytime since the NHS started, our defence budget is much reduced and there is not enough investment in schools is deplorable. Alistair Darling (who I don't think would consider himself a socialist, coming as he did from New Labour's centrist order), may have flipped his home and that's not on. The Conservative's spending our money on their own interests while our public services are cut is scandalous.

Re: The Tories
- Katie (23rd Mar 2018  21:33:53)

This government is absolutely terrible and has been since Cameron. They care not one jot for the nation. It's a cesspit of egos and self-interest.

Nevermind what went before. I cannot believe that there aren't better options.

Re: The Tories
- Sdr (23rd Mar 2018  22:37:11)

Oh Josh have you been reading the socialist newspaper or is this coming from your sociology teachers at college.

Well I’ll give you on thing the police officer numbers have gone down which is not good. Then again people like you have contributed to this by trying to reduce police powers in the name of human rights. Now people who should be stop and searched now walk away to carry on there crimes. So as a result more police were made redundant so congratulations on making a bad situation worse your mum would be proud.

So your next point about 30,000 excess deaths I think you need to learn to stop reading headlines from Jeremy corbyms twitter. You will find statistically we our population of over 60’ has increased hugely since your beloved Labour was in power. People over the age of 60 do have more health related problems statistically. Now the study published in the British medical journal that looked at this and at no point did they say reductions in funding were a direct result of funding cuts. They identify that since Tory government took power deaths have increased but there are multiple factors that could influence this like I’ve said above so they could not conclude with any degree of factual confidence funding was the sole cause of death.

Now for your next point regarding disabilities. The people who you speak about are ones who did not meet certain criteria as there disability was mental health related. What your saying is now factually false a court case last year ruled that the 165000 people effected by pip changes was illegal and have now been reinstated to there full benefits. In retrospect the Goverment should not have changed things in the 1st place but our legal system has a very good track record of protecting disability rights.

Now for your last point about the £450000 house quote yes this was said however it was only applicable to London. If you know anything about property prices you would know London has always been on another planet with no common sense. Now around this area of the hamspshire Surrey property prices have always been higher than the national average of £250000. This has been the case for at least 30years if not longer so that would mean prices were high even with labour in goverment who would of thought. You also realise with your messiah Corbyn if he were to come priminster you would have not chance of owning a home as interest rates would spiral making many things unaffordable to those on middle income salaries.

One day josh I do hope you grow up and take responsibility for yourself instead of expecting others to pay for you. I myself a, not a huge fan of the Tory goverment but if the alternative is Jeremy Corbyn I will vote Tory every single time.



Re: The Tories
- oldie (24th Mar 2018  09:52:55)

Penny, I agree that's a very difficult concept for some people, if not most, to grasp. But I was specifically (perhaps in a roundabout way) answering your point about the Tories not cloaking themselves in so much piety as Labour, Labour not practising what they preach, being hypocrites and because of that, it was better for Labour not to preach in the first place, a point I decided to counter argue!

Turning to Sdr, you would seem to have fallen head over heels for the Tory spin that Corbyn is somehow hell bent on destroying Britain and it would be better to vote for the devil than him.

That's spin, in the main. Yes Tories are better with money overall, but mainly for the rich. You may have read that a glass of cognac sold for £10,000 in a London restaurant last week, the papers are ecstatic, the lady who bought it is being hailed as a national hero, the Tories are so proud of what Britain is becoming...

For the majority in the middle, we will continue to notice no real economic differences under Tory or Labour, same old house building everywhere, but never enough, increasing immigration putting pressure on house prices, services and schools, less police etc.

Under the Tories it's the sick and poor who will suffer the most whilst the rich live it large in something resembling the last days of Rome. Perhaps under Labour it would be the other way round and maybe that's what's scaring the media!

Everyone is buying the Tory press spin that because Corbyn in his younger days 'spoke to the political wing of the IRA in an effort to find peace' therefore he must be weak and a terrorist sympathiser. Despite the truth that it was only after the government decided to follow his example and start talking to both sides too, that peace was achieved. Now that's true hypocrisy, Tory style.

I'm not blind to Labours weaknesses either but I think most people can see beyond the hype and the personalities and decide whether they want to support the tax free elite and vote Tory or the tax draining weak and vulnerable and vote Labour. The middle (who don't shout the loudest but pay all the tax) will, as ever, be largely overlooked by whoever get's in next time!

Personally I hate this sort of ping pong politics and think we need a rethink altogether.

Re: The Tories
- Penny (24th Mar 2018  10:36:24)

Jack, the 1 billion that was paid to the DUP is not being spent on luxuries and fripperies. It is being spent on health, education and infrastructure. Leaving aside why the money was paid (we will always disagree on this) would you not agree that Northern Ireland is part of the UK and is peopled with human beings just as deserving as those living England, Scotland and Wales. Are they not entitled to their share? We give enough away in Foreign Aid so why not to our own. Perhaps you think the people of Northern Ireland are a lesser species.
Katie if you are so sure there is a better option please let us all know or perhaps you should stand for Parliament instead of posting mindless, immotive and unintelligent criticism.
Sdr, your post was well written and intelligent. Like me you are not saying the Conservatives are perfect – they are not, but it is people like Josh who make sweeping statements without any real evidence other than, I suspect, what they read in the Daily Mail, who fuel negativity. We are a “Nanny State” whether Josh likes it or not. Many, many people do not take responsibility for their own actions and the culture of compensation, blame and political correctness flourishes. It starts from the cradle. Parents of badly behaved children blame schools for their children’s bad behaviour – it never occurs to them that they are largely to blame in the first instance. Children go to school to learn and obviously there has to be discipline. However many children go to school having not learnt the basics of good behaviour, because they have not had any guidance from their parents and the school has to pick up the problem. Ergo those children grow up in a blame culture and do not learn to take responsibility for themselves and their own actions and so it is perpetuated.

Re: The Tories
- Sdr (24th Mar 2018  17:19:54)

Oldie don’t think for one second I’ve fallen for Tory properganda but if the alternative is labour with Jeremy Corbyn at the helm I’ll vote Tory every time. If his policies are implemented what you would notice was a brief short term improvement followed by long term pain, higher taxes, higher interest rates.

Last time we let labour in charge of the Nhs we got trapped in pfi deals for hospitals and other medical building which was ok for short while. The after 5 years the contract for these buildings upped the rent to ridiculous levels which directly impacted on clinical services. I used to work in one of these buildings in London when the rent was 5k a month for our dept. Then in 2010 the subsidised 5 year rent deal expired then our rent shot up to 30k a months.

Under the last labour Nhs as well they opened access to such a wider variety of services. What this means practically is more people were referred to these services which resulted in huge waiting lists, light demand for follow up appointments. As a result quality of care dropped and people who needed to be seen urgently could not get in and developed new problems as a result.

But again Tories are not perfect for the Nhs either. My biggest gripe is the cuts to funding tuition funding for nursing and allied health professions. These professions used to get tuition fees paid and small grant to help with there studies. Now these are gone why would any person want to do these professions. Who would want to get 50k in debt for a job with a current starting salary of 22k.

I’m far from Rosy eyed with the tories but if the alternative is Jeremy Corbyn who would never lift a finger to defend our country I know which I would pick.

Re: The Tories
- Jack (24th Mar 2018  19:28:21)

Penny, your generalisations are breathtaking.

It is insulting and a nonsense over-statement to suggest that "many, many people" do not take responsibility for their own actions. Most people live their lives reasonably and fairly. There has, and will always be, swindlers and layabouts, but if you think that there is now a welfare culture in the UK, then what does that say about the policies of your beloved Conservatives, who have been in power for the last eight years. Have you read Anon's post?

"Perhaps you think that the people of Northern Ireland are lesser species"? Apart from the patronising offence, you seem to be suggesting that Northern Ireland was somehow previously unfunded. Of course Northern Ireland should receive their fair share of the UK's wealth, and they did. This was extra money out of our pockets as a bribe to support the Conservative parliamentary agenda. Do you think that the people of the North East, or the former industrial towns of Wales or the Medway or the South West are lesser species? No? Then where is their extra £1bn? This was a grubby deal.

"Sdr's post was well written and intelligent" - Sdr says of the OP "Then again people like you have contributed to this by trying to reduce police powers in the name of human rights" - what do you know of Josh, Sdr? Have you evidence that Josh campaigns for a reduction in police powers? Why would you assume that he would - because he is politically in the centre or the on the left?

The suggestion, Penny, that someone concerned about spending priorities and the undermining of our public services reads the Daily Mail was a peculiar jump. It is the daily drip-feed of headlines like "nanny state" this, "Enemies of the People" that and "Now the EU has done" this from the right-wing press which leads to the distorted view of the British people and institutions evident in some of these posts.

Re: The Tories
- Jack (24th Mar 2018  19:36:14)

I have just re-read Penny's comment "Katie if you are so sure there is a better option please let us all know or perhaps you should stand for Parliament instead of posting mindless, immotive (sic) and unintelligent criticism."

Critising the Government of the day is "mindless" or "unintelligent"? Katie's view seemed to me to be borne of frustration with Conservative policy. The response to her comment above is just unpleasant and patronising.

Before you say it, I don't know Katie.

Re: The Tories
- Penny (25th Mar 2018  19:56:32)

Jack I stand by my statement that many, many people do not take responsibility for their own actions. There is a "blame" culture in this country. It's presence is demonstrated every day. Somebody is always suing someone and don't get me started of so called "human rights."

With regard to my response to Katie's post, you say you found this unpleasant - well I found her post very unpleasant - "It's a cesspit of egos and self-interest."

With regard to money sent to the DUP I never said that it wasn't spent in order to get them to support the Conservative Government. We all know that, but you seem to think that it was a gift of money to spend on luxuries. I said that the Conservatives had no choice if they were going to keep a Corbyn led Labour Government out of power. Please read my posts carefully next time.

People are drip fed by the media and the press particularly papers like the Daily Mail and the internet has a great deal to answer for. They read and believe. Look at the American election!!

Re: The Tories
- Jack (25th Mar 2018  21:52:55)

So Penny, just because YOU don't like Labour, that justifies a scandalous misuse of public funds? The end justifies the means? This is a parliamentary democracy not, at least I don't think yet, a one party state. In 2017 12,874,985 people voted Labour, only about 0.7M less than voted for the Conservatives. You might not like them but nearly as many people voted for their policies over those of your party. Still, I'm sure they are glad they were saved from themselves by their Conservative betters.

I don't recall mentioning luxuries in connection with the DUP deal, only a lack of fairness and disrespect for taxpayers and the English, Scottish and Welsh regions and nations. You are putting words into my mouth.

Personally, I'm with Oldie. The majority in the centre ground are currently without a voice, a leader or a credible party. Perhaps we should try a National coalition of Conservative and Labour to force our politicians back to the centre and tell the DUP that the deal is off. Fanciful thinking, I know, but such pragmatism works in Germany (where they are doing this right now) and it served us well in WWII too.

Penny, you say you don't like the rantings of a certain newspaper but the views you express appear to be lifted straight from it. Nanny state, foreign aid, benefit scroungers, conspiracies about Labour's leaders...these papers have been pedalling this stuff daily for decades.

Re: The Tories
- Penny (26th Mar 2018  14:34:35)

Jack, I never posted that you had said that the money paid to the DUP was spent on luxuries, but your post implied that it was paid ONLY for ideological purposes – the money is as I said is being spent on health, education and infrastructure and Northern Ireland is part of the UK. I also went on to say that we will never agree on the right and wrong of this. Personally I would do anything to keep Jeremy Corbyn out of power. His Communist and Ant-Semitic principals (as are some of his more extremist Labour MP’s such as John McDonnell) are absolutely abhorrent to me. I say some of his MP’s because there are many MP’s in the Labour Party who do not like or agree with Jeremy Corbyn’s sentiments and would like to see him removed as Leader. In an ideal world it would be great if the two parties could come together and find middle ground, but that will never ever happen while Corbyn is leader.
For your information I do not read newspapers. I talk to people and politicians – I worked for an MP. I make up my own mind on life experiences. I can see what is happening to our Country – I don’t have to read about. One example I have a close friend who is a school teacher and do you know she cannot even comfort a small child who has fallen over and hurt him/herself. If she puts an arm round the child or even touches the child she can be sued and eventually lose her job – and believe me that does happen. That is just one example of what this Country and its so called political correctness and” Nanny State” is turning into. I could fill a page with other instances in all walks of life, but that, I suspect, would become boring.

Re: The Tories
- Jack (26th Mar 2018  20:32:06)

I agree with you Penny; we will never agree on much of this! I agree that the reported Labour leadership anti-semitism is unacceptable. I also believe that the populist hard right of the Conservative Party is dangerous and they are the ones causing serious damage right now.

I'm signing off this thread now as it seems it's only you and me left on it!

Re: The Tories
- Penny (27th Mar 2018  15:38:54)

Jack, even though you have signed off I felt I must respond to your statement and I quote “I also believe that the populist hard right of the Conservative Party is dangerous and they are the ones causing serious damage right now.” Not really sure to whom you are referring or what damage they are doing – I named the two who I feel are the most dangerous people in the Labour Party – namely John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn and why I consider them dangerous. I should add Diane Abbott to that list, the ex-girlfriend of Jeremy Corbyn which is probably why she has been Shadow Home Secretary for the last two years. It is certainly not for her intelligence. In the run up to the 2017 General Election Diane Abbot was unable to answer questions in 3 separate interviews on LBC radio, ITV, and Sky News on figures for recruiting police officers, give accurate figures on the Labour party’s performance, and questions about the Harris report on how to protect London from terror attacks. In addition in the past she has been a self-confessed supporter of the IRA. Now that is what I call dangerous.
I too will finish with an experience I had at my splendid National Health dentist today where I know I pay a fraction of what it really costs for treatments. For the first time I was asked to pay before I had my consultation. When I asked why I was told that it was because so many people have treatment, say they have left their wallet at home, disappear and never pay. I was told by the receptionist that this is costing The National Health millions of £££ a year. Now you can’t blame that on the Conservatives. This is the culture into which we are sleep-walking. People expecting something for nothing and then resenting it hugely when they are expected to pay. I know that it has been customary for hotels to take a note of credit cards at the beginning on one’s stay and that I can understand, but National Health dentists – really!!

Re: The Tories
- SteveR (27th Mar 2018  21:40:31)

Can you both (Jack & Penny) exchange email addresses and continue this 'debate, Penny's Rant' or whatever it might be in private.
Then you can shout as loud as you want and save the rest of us.
Penny's soap box must be on wheels to move the thing around.
I know I'm stabbing in the dark here and just taking the wildest of assumptions but I think Penny is a Tory, but keep it to yourselves.

Thank you so much.

Re: The Tories
- Penny (28th Mar 2018  09:28:50)

Yes I do feel strongly and this is a free community website. We have had people before saying the same sort of thing as you Steve R in different ways and the answer is always the same. No one is forcing anyone to open Liphook Talkback. Moreover Steve R you could still open Liphook Talkback but don't go on to this Thread if it bores/annoys you so much. What a very sad life you must lead if you open Threads which you know will annoy you. I think I now will sign off not because you are suggesting it and I have intention of swapping emails with Jack because I think we have now agreed to differ. In addition anything further I might say on this site or to Jack will probably be repetitive and repetition detracts from any discussion.

Re: The Tories
- I (28th Mar 2018  13:16:07)

There are always those on these sorts of sites who when they do not like or agree with what is posted demand the poster be quiet. In particular it seems that those with a left leaning attitude love to debate providing no-one disagrees with them, bit like Stalin really.

That being said, May's lot are a complete waste of space, shame we do not have a viable alternative

Re: The Tories
- David (10th Jun 2018  07:35:57)

The Tories and the mainstream media are intent on smearing Jeremy Corbyn because they cannot seem to argue economics anymore. If you are opposed to nationalization, for example, then argue the pros and cons of nationalization, not whether he was forced to sit on the floor or not in a moment of pique.

And as for anti-Semitism—where were the Tories when the Jews really needed them back in the 1930s? Busy nodding approvingly at Hitler's decisive stance on immigration, no doubt. Total humbug.

Re: The Tories
- Ian (10th Jun 2018  10:14:30)

No fan of this government but Corbyn and his communist agenda would be a disaster for this country. Anyone with an ounce of political maturity would not be taken in by his ridiculous agenda!

Re: The Tories
- (10th Jun 2018  10:50:44)

And don't forget also that the Tory bible - aka The Daily Mail - were very friendly with Oswald Mosely and the Fascists in the 30's

To me they and the Tories are still a bunch of racist right-wing idiots.

Still, as the older one die off it means Labour will get back in thankfully

Re: The Tories
- Lips (10th Jun 2018  16:48:37)

Just goes to show how the roles have reversed.
The Left - so intended on protecting the "correct" minorities is allowing internal hate politics towards other minorities. Not easy being a white male by Labour.
Even if the Tories were the 1930's British anti semites, doesn't mean that 20'teens the Labour are not!
Those basing their views of reality held back a century ago have some updating to do. These days Jews and other minorities suffer hatred and oppression from today's Left more so than from today's Right.

Labour stands for equality. Historical calls for equality have now overshot target through overzeal extremism. They've gone a full circle towards neo-oppression, neo-privileged, neo-natzism isn't all that far.
On the news today, feminists rallying saying that women-only groups / privileges are a great thing and 'empowering'. Do they need reminding that a major cause for feminism back in the old days was access into men-only groups / privileges; and that feminism started for females of the well-to-do alone not working class. The irony.

Re: The Tories
- helen (11th Jun 2018  14:40:13)

I do not think that it is the Labour Party itself which is to blame, multiculturalism now means that there is more intolerance showing due to the diverse ethnic backgrounds of party members and if people in power within the Labour Party hold some intolerant views themselves it will perpetuate. What I mean to say is forget the stereotype of 100 years ago and a typical labour party voter, the classic working class British male think more globally as to what may be causing religious or racial intolerance in the present day labour Party, in my opinion it is linked to middle eastern politics, eg Israel and Gaza.

Re: The Tories
- Lips (11th Jun 2018  19:12:12)

If indeed the Labour antisemitism is linked to Gaza, well the link itself is invalid as many Jews remove themselves from the current Israeli government.

The Gaza link would also apply that Labour supports Hamas which is oppressive to the Gaza people and a terrorist organization.

Labour has some labouring to do when it comes to their sensible ideology.

Re: The Tories
- jason (11th Jun 2018  23:32:00)

When your in a discussion about the two main parties in the UK and one side uses the word "communism" its time to disengage as it clear they want to identify themselves as the sort of Britishness whom attended Eton or Oxford, they think they belong to that set and lack the understanding the Tory club would happily destructively devalue everything to permit their boys club buy it up on the cheap before renting it back to us for 10 times the price.

Spend your time thinking you belong to the club whilst the club screws you, or take a second to think about your neighbor and indeed yourself if and when your not doing as well... that's not communism, its common sense.

Neither party in the UK has what it takes, both are slandering the other but one thing is for sure, the current Champ has failed so if all we have its two then the only lesson we can teach them democratically is that we the people will sack them, we will change government as quick as we change utility providers and they will and should learn its not get in the door, hold the fort anymore.

They need to deliver


Re: The Tories
- Helen (12th Jun 2018  08:46:05)

Hi lips I was also talking in the wider historical sense of ancient religious sense ss I have said the labour party is comprised of people of all nationalities some of whom may be importing centuries of
religious hatred nothing to do with Britain's view of it. After all any religious fundamentalist
may also be a member of a political party. The way that some of the terror attacks in france were in the Jewish quarters leads me to think of a link.

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