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Local Talkback
Talkback is for the residents and businesses in Liphook to voice their views and opinions about local issues and events.

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Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- anon (2nd Dec 2015  18:14:15)

Received a letter today outlining plans to demolish the existing Business Centre on Lynchborough Road, to make way for a housing estate on the 6 acre site.

Public exhibition on 16th December at reception.

Sweetener being a community hall (not needed imo). Look at the debacle with the children's play area back in 2007.

They need to sort out our frequent power outages & the safety of Hollywater Road first. Not to mention no bus service. We do not have the infrastructure to cope with any more housing out here.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Dawn Hoskins (3rd Dec 2015  10:33:16)

I think this has the possibility of being a nice place to put new homes. Passfield is lovely - all nestled into the woods like it is and I’m sure people will find that attractive.

However, the fact that it is nestled into the woods does go hand in hand with having no amenities. You cannot walk/cycle anywhere in safety as there are no pavements leading to Bordon or to Liphook and no streetlights on those roads either.

This – taken with the fact that there is [during term-time and excluding weekends] only the sporadic no:13 bus, which conveniently does NOT allow you to arrive in Liphook for the start of school hours [or normal work hours] – means that every household MUST have a car for every driver – and enough space to park all those numerous vehicles.

So, the only real problem I can foresee is that the [completely necessary] cars will be parked all over the roads in the new estate and all over Lynchborough road (which is very narrow). . . . .UNLESS the developer is generous enough to space the dwellings out more reasonably than the national minimum requires, build garages bigger than the national minimum which are actually big enough to put a car into and open the doors, PLUS make-way for TWO driveway spaces per home. This would all mean less profit of course.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Dawn Hoskins (3rd Dec 2015  10:47:00)

I should add that the business centre houses many local small businesses. I am not sure where any other local employment sites are that would be able to take the influx of those searching for new premises (unless the business centre is remaining and just having houses places around the outside of it)?

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Julian (3rd Dec 2015  11:14:56)

I understand that there is a simultaneous application being presented for a new business center within a few miles of the present location. This would offer relocation for all of the businesses before the current buildings are demolished.

I must agree that the transport links to and from Passfield (and Bordon, Liphook, etc) should be prioritised.

Probably a separate subject but it would be very easy to link up cycle routes for Bordon --> Passfield --> Liphook using existing paths / routes. Just look at an OS map and all will become apparent!

Consideration needs to be given to amenities / facilities - please try to support it.

Julian.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- bdavies (3rd Dec 2015  12:48:34)

How many house are they hoping to put up here? Is there a planning application reference?

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- N (3rd Dec 2015  13:04:19)

50 (apparently)

No planning ref yet. Exhibition on the 16th.

Will be sorry to see the Business Centre go

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Dawn Hoskins (4th Dec 2015  15:58:57)

I didn't get a flyer/letter.

Can you give more details on the exhibition ie: where and what time.

thanks in advance

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Michelle (4th Dec 2015  16:59:16)

Dawn Meeting to be held at the Business Centre 16th December between 430pm - 7pm.

I'm quite disgusted at how many residents did not receive a letter - albeit worded very 3rd middle management and not even in an envelope.
I personally think the whole idea is absurd and totally unrealistic.
We certainly do not want the value of our properties halved because of the sheer greed of yet another property developer.
This is not Bordon - and it definitely does not need to become overspill.
We don't want anymore Building or Traffic in Lynchborough Road - I feel there has been enough fatalities along the Hollywater Road already.
Perhaps pnh Properties should Townsville on there own doorstep.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- An other local (7th Dec 2015  08:59:11)

Well, we finally got down to the real objection here..... Don't want more much needed housing cause it will devalue your own.....! How community spirited of you!

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- helen (7th Dec 2015  10:39:48)

The value of housing is never taken into account by the planning authorities, so rest assured there. If permission is refused the local authority have to spend thousands defending their decisions when the developers appeal, so all reasons for refusal these days have to be based on matters such as proximity to schools and services.

I imagine that with all the new houses being built in Bordon, and the relief road being built there, it could be assumed that Bordon would be just as close as Liphook.

If there is enough increase in population a new school will be built there, as would a railway station, but not until the houses are all built over there.

Unfortunately as there is no Neighbourhood plan in place yet for Liphook, developers will feel empowered to try. The starting figure Liphook was given was 175 extra houses, but that does not have to be strictly adhered to. Each time any housing development is refused, it means another developer comes forward to try and "grab the quota" so to speak.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Craig (7th Dec 2015  10:57:05)

What do those who live near by want to see replace the business centre, as clearly it isn't going to be there forever?

As I see it the choice is housing or something commercial.

Craig

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Ian (7th Dec 2015  12:32:43)

Based on posts about the empty garage in Liphook a drive thru McDonalds seems high on locals wish list!!!

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Dawn Hoskins (7th Dec 2015  13:33:01)

If you go to the EHDC very good interactive map, you can see which areas are inside the settlement Boundary and which are specifically excluded from the settlement boundary.

maps.easthants.gov.uk/map/ui/

the bottom half of Lynchborough Road and the whole of the Enterprise Centre is specifically excluded from the settlement boundary policy map.

It will therefore not be as straightforward as other applications as there is not a presumption in favour of development - which normally ties the hands of the planners as they have to say YES unless it contravenes a small list of objection rules. Land specifically excluded - as this is - is deemed greenbelt / countryside - which means much tighter restriction and a greater ability for planner to say NO.

That said, we have a chronic housing shortage in the immediate area which is causing misery to those looking for a place to live for the first time - and they need to go somewhere.

Not sure that is correct. It appears to show that the Business Centre itself is in the Settlement boundary, but some of the land behind it isn't.

PBC

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Anon (10th Dec 2015  00:39:32)

i think the editor is correct, after studying the map about half of this site is within the settlement boundary which means the other half isn't. Therefore two sets of planning rules and considerations apply. I'm not sure if it is financially worth developing half the site and the remaining land which is predominantly grassland and full of wildlife sits with the current owners or will that become common land for the use of the community?
Serious consideration needs to be given to the hollywater rd junction as leaving Lynchborough rd is a bit of a lottery as the hedgerows are high,close to the road, on a bit of a blind bend and close to passfield straight. Bizarrely,Hampshire county council has dropped all the local speed limits to 30mph apart from this area of hollywater rd and passfield straight. There is also a warning sign missing when approaching from hollywater advising you that Lynchborough rd even exists which is fine if you're a local but dangerous if not.
The land at this junction belongs to the national trust so I very much doubt they would be prepared to give it up to improve this junction to make it safer for the developers to overcome this issue especially with the major increase of traffic currently using this road for residential and business use. As already stated in an earlier post, there has been a tragic accident at this junction in recent weeks and I believe it's not the first on hollywater rd and it's common place for accidents and near misses at hollywater rd/ passfield straight junction.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Julie (10th Dec 2015  07:27:52)

The site is also well within the 400m SPA (special protection area) buffer zone and the 500m SAC (special area of protection zone).

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- helen (10th Dec 2015  18:28:39)

How did the relatively new houses at Lynchborough Rd and the Lyndons get permission to be built then ? the same countryside restraints existed then, eg National Trust Land, Countryside etc?

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Anon (11th Dec 2015  00:10:08)

The Lyndons and Eleanor close are within the settlement boundary where the restrictions are far less I assume. I'm not sure if the same restrictions applied 20 years ago when they were built or if there was SSI designation to the area near by. These current regulations are to stop urban spread and to protect the countryside and wildlife. I'm sure all will be evident in the fullness of time. I am pretty certain though that this is purely a commercial proposition and not for the good of the local community. We don't even have a footpath to link us to Liphook let alone a decent public transport. I'm sure there will be arguments for and against this proposal.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- anon (11th Dec 2015  07:54:20)

We campaigned for a footpath some years ago.

We didn't get one because the land is part of a SSSI site. So I'd like to know how they can then consider building 50 houses. 50 houses = average of 2 cars per household , that's 100 extra cars. The plans had better include ample parking as we can't have Lynchborough road turned into a car park because of this new estate. The road is narrow & us existing residents struggle to navigate in & out of our drives due to inconsiderate parking as it is.
We are yet to have our local exchange upgraded so we are on slow broadband . The exchangewon't cope with 50 extra households. Not to mention our power supply which suffers frequent outages . In the letter is states we are a village which we are not Passfield is a hamlet and we do not have the facilities to cope with a large estate. The lyndos originally was supposed to be much larger than it is & I believe Squire Bridge (?) had to alter their plans many timea for it to pass planning.
Appreciate housing is much needed but this isn't a village or town with adequate infrastructure to support itA

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- helen (11th Dec 2015  11:05:42)

The settlement boundary expands when new houses are built and then the settlement boundary changes so that the new houses form the boundary of the settlement again.

Maybe the lyndons estate replaced one large country house there? There must be some records of how permission was given.

After all, If one goes back 20 odd years the settlement boundary of Liphook was not where it is now!

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Anon (11th Dec 2015  20:16:34)

the settlement area doesn't expand into green belt land, national trust and, ssi land.
This area may be considered to be a brownfield site by some but half of the site is out of the settlement area, fact!
The road, junction and infrastructure of the local area can't cope already. The local exchange is old and I frequently get a download speed of about 0.5 meg download and upload is at best 0.3 meg continuously so more load on a fragile exchange is a concern.
Any householder development applications out of the settlement area are subject to the strict restraints of planning so I would expect the same rules and integrity applied to this application when it's made.
This quite rightly has been highlighted in a previous post, this isn't a village, it's a hamlet.
Most houses in Passfield are probably on their own sewerage arrangements so could the addition of more housing be accommodated by the mains sewerage or will Lynchborough rd suffer the same issues as Portsmouth rd, longmoor rd and headley rd in Liphook..

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Jamie (12th Dec 2015  08:58:41)

Liphook was given a target figure of 175 additional houses by EHDC. We already have a housing allocation by EHDC of the 175 at Lowley.

Another 40 have been approved at Bramshott Place. The appeal for 100 houses at the poultry farm will be in the new year. The field at the top of the Headley Road has had a proposal put forward for some 30 more houses. That is almost double Liphook's quota. Now another 50 in Passfield.

What happened to all those complaints about our roads being unable to cope with traffic NOW? What about supporting a Neighbourhood Plan?

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- helen (12th Dec 2015  17:07:57)

Liphook has been given a MInimum figure in EHDCs local plan, not a maximum figure, no neighbourhood plan can reduce housing numbers, they are all to encourage more housebuilding, but housebuilding only where there are minimum of housing restraints, and in places the whole community would approve it, hence the need for a referendum. If you look at the maps of the expansion planned for Bordon, Passfield is closer to Bordon than liphook.

Also in EHDcs local plan, is encouragement to redevelop brownfield sites for housing.

Looking at old maps, Passfield was a small counrtyside location before the Lyndons and Arundel Close were built, so those living there must remember that unless they want huge numbers of houses to follow in their wake, services there are not going to be improved, as a previous poster said, it is a countryside location, surrounded by National Trust and National Park land.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Sarah (12th Dec 2015  18:15:50)

Helen

Just FYI, Passfield is closer to Liphook than Bordon. The road sign in Passfield alone shows this. Our address is Passfield, Liphook, GU30 etc, our phone code is Liphook area not Bordon and we are under Bramshott and Liphook Parish Council. Just a small point, but Passfield is not part of the large Bordon redevelopment.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Helen (12th Dec 2015  19:28:02)

Hi Sarah, yes I understand that at the moment Passfield is closer to Liphook. I was making the point that after the expansion of 3000 plus houses in the Bordon area, that the new expanded outskirts of Bordon, which will bring Bordon closer to your area, may become closer to reach from Passfield than Liphook is now.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Editor (15th Dec 2015  15:16:36)

Design statement.

passfield_design

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Editor (15th Dec 2015  15:42:12)

I've superimposed the design over an existing satellite shot of Passfield.

The development is all within the current Settlement Boundary.

passfield_satellite

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- anon (15th Dec 2015  16:21:09)

Excellent. So the entrance/exit right opposite our houses/driveways then! Not to mention the prospect of being directly overlooked by 6 properties?

This doesn't sit well at all with some residents of Lynchborough Road and we will be lodging our objections.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Dawn Hoskins (15th Dec 2015  17:44:09)

I can see that the row of Harvey Cottages will have 2nd story windows looking directly at them, which isn't good at all.

The design replicates the density of The Lydons - but the roads all look too narrow to accommodate a fire engine & parked cars combo - and the driveways are not big enough to provide for the parked cars either.

In an area with no public transport, and no pavements to walk or cycle to Liphook safely that is a recipe for disaster. Every adult householder will need a car and they will all have to be parked somewhere.

The problem is, as always, car parking is NOT a planning issue and the design can only be approved on limited planning issues - if it is inside the portion of the site designated as the interior of the Settlement boundary.

If they are hoping to gain the approval of local people then they will have to do better than this.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Dawn Hoskins (16th Dec 2015  10:32:17)

Just realised the meeting/exhibition is today. How are people at work supposed to attend when it closes before they get home?

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Howell Singh (17th Dec 2015  06:20:38)

Great, so Passfield is slowly becoming another sprawl, small but nevertheless significant. The so called exhibit is timed to ensure fewest attendees and least opposition. As soon as a planning number is filed we need to object.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Jay (17th Dec 2015  10:09:07)

I have an office in the Passfield Business Center and I also live in Passfield. I was at yesterdays meeting.

I personally think the development looks good and the designers have taken a lot of positive factors in to account, this all to the benefit of the residents and community.

Whichever way we look at it, the land is assigned to permissible development and I see that there are only two options;

1) new housing, or
2) a new business center

Would a new two-story business center (up to five times bigger than the current operation/occupancy) be any better than housing? Probably much worse in my mind.

I do disagree with the position of the current road entrance. This may cause unnecessary light pollution for the properties on Lynchborough Road. "Light pollution" may fall under UK Laws and certainly worth looking into. The developers may wish to review the position of the road entrance so that it [doesn't] affect any existing properties.

Like any new estate they are always rather barren in the first years, however a tree planting scheme could be included as part of the planning considerations to provide privacy to existing (and new) homes.

What is happening with the land to the east? Will this become a park? Will the developer put a link path or cycle route through to the common? After all the Shipwrights way passes very close. It would be good to have such connections to our wonderful countryside. Imagine being able to walk or cycle for miles around in safety. Certainly great for all individuals and families alike.

We could also work with the developers to install faster broadband for the community. A fibre cabinet could be installed for approximately £30K and would adequately serve the entire community, including the proposed new development.

There will always be the question of building on the site and an objectionable approach may not be the right way to look at this.

My thoughts are to take a positive stance with the developers to achieve the most pleasing development, environment and quality of life for all. My preference is homes, not commercial.

What are your thoughts (not that I should need to ask on TalkBack!) ?

Jay.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Resident (3rd Feb 2016  14:40:09)

Planning application for the new housing estate is now online. Here's the link for those residents who haven't received the letter (most of Lynchborough Road)
You have until the 23rd Feb to submit your comments.

planningpublicaccess.easthants.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=_EHANT_DCAPR_236725

Interesting to note the open spaces detailed in the plans are exclusively for the use of the estate & not the wider existing community, contrary to the letter sent out by PNH

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Passfield Resident (3rd Feb 2016  19:40:28)

I attended the 'consultation ' meeting in December and requested a copy of the traffic survey and the environmental/water assessment reports which the planning consultants referred to in their 'sales pitch' but to date have not received anything.

Of course, on the night the consultants engaged by PNH did not seem to think it would be a problem to provide these documents.

I continue to wait...............

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Steve (4th Feb 2016  10:59:57)

Presumably these documents are now available on the planning portal using the link in the earlier post?

The link above currently goes to the application for me. Although EHDC planning links are generally 'unstable'. So alternatively go to Planning » Simple Searchand search for 21479/014

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Resident (4th Feb 2016  11:47:16)

The link takes you to the planning application. you can view the attached documents (32 of them), by clicking documents?


Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Dawn Hoskins (6th Feb 2016  17:56:38)

There are very few residents comments so far - however this is not unexpected as EHDC in their wisdom have not informed anyone that the application has been submitted!!!

As this is an outline application I have written my objections to the basic principles of applying urban parking quotas (where residents can rely on pavements, cycle lanes, buses, tubes, trains etc) with this rural satellite location. Particularly given the narrow and dangerous junctions in the immediate vicinity.

My letter is long (what else would you expect LOL) and I have reproduced here for anyone who is interested.


Response [objection] from Mrs Dawn Hoskins to: 21479/014 | Outline Application - 48 residential units at Passfield Business Centre, Lynchborough Road, Passfield.

Although I have no doubt that this plan will forge ahead, I feel duty bound to pass comment on a number of points relating to the misleading manner in which this proposal has been submitted.

In essence, I have no objection to houses being built at this site, but I do MOST STRONGLY object to urban minimum parking quotas being used in this rural 'satellite' hamlet. I also object to the way in which the developer speaks of car use and the possibility that there is an alternative option in this remote area.

Firstly, it should be noted that the uniquely isolated, secluded and remote nature of this hamlet which is 'cut-off' from all other areas by a margin of 3 miles or so, sets it aside from Liphook and Bordon which are the nearest towns/villages. Apart from this immediate vicinity, the hamlet is exceedingly rural and mainly unlit and unpaved for both road and pedestrian traffic. Only the main or newer roads are tarmacked with the other roads around the woodlands being unmade and unadopted.

There is no footpath into Bordon and no footpath into Liphook.

Despite the designated speed restrictions on the B3004 into Liphook and the Hollywater Road into Bordon, the rural nature of the roads, the lack of speed controls and lack of enforcement results in speeds more normally approaching 60mph.

What tarmac roads there are, are unlit; have no cats-eyes and no white lines in the majority of the hamlet. The main route to Bordon, The Hollywater Road, is only just wide enough in place for two small cars to pass. The only pub, The Royal Oak, is about half a mile away down this road where recently a pedestrian was knocked down and killed.

It is entirely unsafe to cycle or walk along these roads to access the nearest villages with amenities. The closure of the Pub in past years was a blow for the hamlet but the shutting of the Post Office was quite devastating and consequently, all pension collections and postal trips must be driven into Bordon or Liphook. All trips must be done in a vehicle and even then, the speeds on the B3004 and the Hollywater Road, which is pitch black at night, have resulted in a large number of RTA fatalities and near death collisions. There are 'shrines' to the dead in numerous places in our hamlet.

Sustainable Transport Links

The developer mentions the bus towards school in Liphook saying that there is an alternate means of transport other than the car. This is, at best disingenuous - at worse a complete lie. They clearly HAVE NOT investigated the nature of the No:13 bus service.

The most frequent [by car] departures from family houses are school runs. The catchment for this development will be Liphook infant & juniors and Bohunt School.

It is entirely impossible to catch a bus to school from Passfield. Everyone knows that - and a cursory glance at the timetable confirms it. The bus departs at 7:12am. then a big gap so no-one can get to school for 8:30am. with service resuming 9am until 5:45pm when it stops.

The bus does NOT run at weekends and EVEN WORSE, the service is restricted only to days upon which Alton College is open. So no bus at weekends, no bus in school holidays and even if you were minded to get the bus to school/work in Liphook - you can't - as it does not run at this most crucial time.

To allude to a possibility of bus travel in this hamlet is dishonest and an entirely inaccurate portrayal of the reality of living in a secluded and remote hamlet which has no amenities of its own.

Proposed Parking Provision

These are family houses that are being built, and due to the specific and individual nature of this location - everyone will need ua car. It is not possible to consider living here without one.

If there are 48 houses and 2 adults in each there is a minimum requirement for 96 car parking spaces just for them (this does not include any other family members who will be driving and all the friends and family that may be visiting). Youngsters in this location all take their tests as soon as they are 18. If they are to travel from hamlet to hamlet to see their friends they have no choice.

In our family home we comprise of myself, my husband, our three sons and in the annexe - my father. In addition to having one car each, we also have a camper van. There are 7 vehicles on our drive at night. Apart from having a 'granny-annexe' we are not unusual - that is simply the reality of living here.

According to the plans submitted, only the largenr properties have garages. The smaller properties have only allocated parking spaces. Given the secluded 'satellite' nature of this hamlet, for the number of vehicles that will necessarily be owned by the house owners - there is simply not enough parking provision provided.

This will cause an intolerable situation in Lynchborough Road and risk cars being parked on the approach to the horrifically dangerous Hollywater/B3004 Junction.

The average Fire Engine needs a minimum width of 4m for access. At the moment this is fine - as although all the roads in the vicinity are narrow, there is no 'on street parking'. Hollywater Road is too narrow to allow for both on-street parking and a fire engine to pass, as is Lynchborough Road which is too narrow, The Lyndons which is too narrow, Eleanor Close which is too narrow, and Arundel Close which is too narrow (Arundel close is not marked on the site plan). God forbid overflow cars being parked on Hollywater Road!

That means that ZERO cars can be parked on any of the roads in the vicinity. None of these roads will be able to accommodate overspill car parking from the new estate without blocking access to emergency vehicles and rubbish collection vehicles. It will cause a complete and utter nuisance and upheaval to local residents.

Even for regular car parking, there is not enough provision within this new estate, but what if, for example, the new homeowner also has a works lorry or works van? Too big for the designated parking area - where's it going to go - Lynchborough Road?

The Traffic Survey.

As family houses in this particularly secluded satellite location, it can be assumed that a large percentage of the home owners will be going out in the mornings to take the children to school and out in the afternoons to collect them. (As previously mentioned there is no public transport option in this location to get to school - the car is the only way). Additionally, any commuters returning home will be arriving well after 6pm.

It is therefore, unreasonable and statistically fatally flawed to conduct a traffic survey which excludes this time period.

The survey undertaken by the developer counted traffic movements only between the hours of 4pm - 6pm.

It is also fatally flawed statistically to accept the comparator in this instance. There can be no comparison between an employee who is duty-bound to remain within the premises to conduct his work - and the prerequisite movements of a family.

To use such a flawed comparison as a base for any study is laughable. It completely beggars belief that this comparison has been used at all, let alone being used as factual statistical grounds to categorically state that the new estate will have a 'negligible impact' compared to what is there.

It is embarrassing for any professional to look at this nonsense and take it seriously and I would demand that this be completely disregarded. It is pure fiction.

The normal accepted vehicle movement ratio for a family home is 8 (per family home - per day). One person going on a school run every day, out and back twice, is 4 vehicle movements. If there is one other adult going out to work and coming back - that is a minimum of 6 vehicle movements per family home per day. That is a minimum of 6 movements as long as there is no shopping to be done, no meetings to attend, no after school clubs, no visitors or social activities - which is highly unlikely!!! AND this is based on only 2 drivers within the household.

The reason the 'accepted norm' is 8 vehicle movements per family home per day is because that is what is NORMAL. It is utterly ridiculous to suggest that in this case, in this particular remote estate with no amenities and no public transport that this would be reduced. If anything - it will be more.

48 family houses x 8 movements per house per day. That is 384 movements - given the nature of this location, its remoteness, lack of any amenity and lack of any public transport to get to school - I would say that is an understatement. That IS NOT in any way a 'negligible impact' compared to what is there.

A traffic survey should, at least, reflect reality. I've read some slanted and biased surveys in my time but this really does take the biscuit!

Dangerous Junctions in the Immediate Vicinity.

At the exhibition/consultation that the developer ran to interact with local people, the majority spoke with great concern about the very high number of deaths and near death injuries that have occurred along the Hollywater Road, the Lynchborough Junction and the Hollywater Junction.

Although the majority are speed-related incidents the other contributing factor is the very rural nature of these roads. Driving up to this site from Whitehill (nearest supermarket) the road is bendy, narrow and unlit. The bend in the road results in the Lynchborough Road junction being entirely invisible to approaching cars - often driving at excessive speed.

Exiting Lynchborough Road can be a very hair-raising business, as cars - which were previously invisible - screech and skid all over the road to avoid hitting the back end of your vehicle. I believe this has happened to every single resident here.

Arundel Close has not even been drawn on the site-map, the entrance/exit of which further reduces any available on-street parking on Lynchborough Road.

The Lynchborough Road junction is a very dangerous one indeed. The increased traffic movements from 48 houses cannot make this any better yet there seems no plan put forward by the developer for speed reduction mechanisms or to increase the sight line around the bend?

More worryingly, the likelihood that cars will be forced to park along Hollywater Road is exceptionally high. With the Junctions already being of such a dangerous nature, the thought of cars being parked-up to reduce visibility even more is an appalling one which will undoubtedly have disastrous consequences.


Community Hall.

Although it is laudable to provide this token towards a cohesive community. It is a great concern to me that this will become a 'millstone around the neck' of the Parish Council - who I presume will be the owners of this hall?

The developer has provided no detail as to the financial obligations of this hall - who is to own it? Who pays for electricity, gas, heating, lighting, water, toilet rolls? Who is to maintain the structure?

What is the maximum capacity for the hall use and where will all the users park their numerous vehicles should they attend a function at this hall - given that there is not even enough parking provision for residents?

There is no clarity on this issue and until the facts are written and we can be assured that there will be no financial implications to local people as to the running and maintenance of this facility, then I can only object to it.

Alternative Site for Small Business Units

The developer has omitted to give any details as to where the local employment site is going to be moved to? This needs to be clarified.

The use of 'Shared Space'.

As a final point, I would like to object to the status of 'shared space' within this new estate.

The developer states that the new estate will be laid out using 'shared space' so all features such as curbs, road markings etc will be non-existent. This is simply a means to create the illusion of space whilst offering no safety for vehicles, cyclists, pedestrians and children to mix safely within the estate.

Roads with no pavements for children to walk on - is madness. Anyone operating under the illusion that cyclists or pedestrians will only use their designated 'separate' entrance to the south-west of the site is unrealistic in the extreme.

I can understand 'shared space' being used effectively in very urban areas like city centres - but not in this exceedingly rural area where it is totally out of keeping with all the other roads and houses. Humans, cyclists and cars do no mix and we have had our fair share of RTA deaths in Passfield to prove this.

Conclusion

I urge you to enforce a sensible rural average of car parking spaces per dwelling which would realistically mirror real life in this area. Do not simply acquiesce to these inadequate and inappropriate minimum 'city' levels where the bicycle lane, the tube, the bus, the train and the footpath are viable options. An absolute minimum of 2 off-street driveway spaces per dwelling is needed (and even this low level will cause problems).

If a Community Centre is to be built then clear financial implications should be set out as to management and maintenance.

Additionally, whatever the maximum capacity for this community hall is - then THAT is the number of parking spaces that should accompany any design for it. If x30 parents with prams are going to turn up for a toddler class - they will want to park close to the centre. This is a blindingly obvious fact that the developer seems to have overlooked. Where are all the users going to park when the surrounding roads are not suitable for on-street parking?

At the developer's expense, highway safety measures to improve the safety at both Lynchborough Road and Hollywater Road junctions should be established.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Mary Still (6th Feb 2016  19:37:06)

Excellent letter. Who could possibly not take notice of all those crystal clear points?!

Well Done.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Terry (7th Feb 2016  13:43:44)

Excellent response Dawn. This spells out my concerns exactly. It is so important that everyone who has an opinion does log their comments on the Council web site BEFORE the fast approaching deadline as once approvals have been granted you can't moan and groan if you didn't voice your concerns when it was important to do so.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Local Resident (8th Feb 2016  15:55:35)

Dawn,

Great letter but might it be better to work with the developers to achieve the desired result?

I hear that if housing does not go ahead, there could well be another business center built, much bigger than the present. What will that do for traffic and the area?

Something that you don't mention, but is there any argument regarding disability & access in all this road / parking objection?

I refer to your previous advice where you list the valid reasons for objection as follows;

Overshadowing or Loss of light
Overlooking or loss of privacy
Visual amenity (but not loss of private view)
Adequacy of parking/loading/turning
Highway safety
Traffic generation
Noise and disturbance resulting from use
Loss of trees
Effect on listed building and conservation area
Layout and density of building
Design, appearance and materials
Landscaping
Road access
Disabled persons' access
Nature conservation
Archaeology

Thanks.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Resident (8th Feb 2016  17:26:58)

Totally welcome a new Business Center!

When the new housing estate is built we could lose our shop.
But never mind, we can always catch the non existent bus to Liphook or L.indford.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Dawn Hoskins (8th Feb 2016  18:27:43)

Hi Local Resident (I wonder why you don't want to use your name?)

Yes I think that my letter sets out how I want to work with the developers to achieve the desired result. I have already stated in the top lines that I am not in essence objecting to the housing - only that they are family houses which will need adequate parking provision.

this is only an Outline planning permission - so the developer is testing the water to see if he can have houses and what considerations would have to be met for any permission to be given. So - I have laid out what I think the specific considerations are.

Only when a Full application is submitted will you be looking at detailed drawings - at which point you would base your comments upon the tick list that you have included. So at that point you are not objecting to the principle but, perhaps, the height or the look of the structure.

So - for the Outline - we need to make sure the planners understand that in this rural, car-dependent vicinity - the car is king and it needs to be parked! Vehicle-related issues are the biggest problem with this application as far as I can see and this needs to be made a 'condition' by the planners who are considering it.

Please consider using your real name - it is not nice to be talking to people and not know who they are.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Michelle (8th Feb 2016  20:48:51)

Well said Dawn
I'm going to object via my Barrister.
I'm completely confused as to why I did not get a corresponding letter from EDHC as I'm a co joining property.
Maybe this will be dealt with the same way - PBC over night lay-by to entrance permission ???.
Amazing it's not what you no - its whom you no - or perhaps how much money you have.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- h (8th Feb 2016  23:26:44)

Hi Michelle, I thought the PAssfield business centre was a detatched building not co joined to any other building?

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Michelle (9th Feb 2016  08:46:26)

I didn't mention anything about Buildings.
I said Property.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- H (9th Feb 2016  12:17:27)

Hi Michelle, forgive me if there is confusion, if you are referring to land ownership, EHDC will only be able to write to those adjoining people who are paying council tax in the form of business rate or council tax for a domestic property where they have registered records of buildings with a postal address. Land in itself does not attract council tax without some form of building, so if you are not paying council. tax on your adjoining property they will not be able to send you a letter. You could always register your comments online anyway?

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Michelle (9th Feb 2016  16:31:07)

Which is exactly my point - as all of the above applies to me.

It is a registered address - there are buildings on it.
I do pay Council Tax - a lot of Council Tax.
My residential property is next door and part of the adjoining property.

But I still didn't receive any correspondence.
Well I guess you need to take that up with the Council to confirm if they believe a letter was sent to your address

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Rob (9th Feb 2016  20:40:42)

The biggest problem is the building it's self it's full of asbestos, when ever we worked in the loft area had to sign a asbestos register. It's a shame but asbestos was a great material when the building was built.
You can't do much alterations to the building without disturbing the asbestos. So in the long run its most probably safer if it was demolished!!!

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Dawn Hoskins (14th Mar 2016  17:13:56)

Has anyone heard anything about this yet?

I looked on-line and can't find any letters from neighbours (can't even find my own letter)!

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Dawn Hoskins (21st Apr 2016  17:24:56)

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Proposal: Outline Application - Redevelopment of the site to provide 48 residential units with associated community hall, open space, parking and landscaping.

Site Address: Passfield Business Centre, Lynchborough Road, Passfield, Liphook, GU30 7SB

Case No: 21479/014

Thank you for your comments which have been taken into account by the Council in reaching a decision on the above proposal.

I can now advise you that the application was refused permission.

The decision notice can be viewed and downloaded free of charge using the following link

planningpublicaccess.easthants.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=_EHANT_DCAPR_236725

East Hampshire District Council

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Barry (11th Sep 2018  12:36:10)

Another planning application is in,
this time for even MORE houses and EVEN LESS parking.
total madness

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Alan (11th Sep 2018  12:54:14)

21479/015

planningpublicaccess.easthants.gov.uk/online-applications/...

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Dawn Hoskins (11th Sep 2018  14:24:33)

By changing the company building the site, the Business Centre has very cleverly tried to LINK this to the sites in Whitehill & Bordon (Louisburg Barracks North [LBN]– also being thrown up by Wimpy.

The reason I say, clever, is that the previous application here was turned down on the grounds that it would be a loss of a valuable employment site.

As Wimpy are setting aside land for ‘employment’ in Bordon they can contend that although there will be a loss of a site in Passfield, it will be countered by the gain of a site nearby.

Not only that, they seem to be linking the build of the industrial site in Bordon as a legal condition. Basically, we only get the site in Bordon if the houses can be built in Passfield!

“………………The applicant confirms that it is the intention that, if the two applications are approved, the delivery of the commercial space at LBN will be linked by legal agreement to the residential redevelopment at PBC…………...”

The most hilarious part of the application is that they think the 160 car parking spaces provided are going to be adequate.

Cars are not a luxury in Passfield, they are an absolute necessity. Given that young adults can no longer afford to move out, you can guarantee that family housing will have young adult car drivers living at the premises.

If, erring on the side of caution, you imagined that every bedroom had a driver in it you would need 253 spaces.

Obviously not every house is going to have other people that drive but every adult will have a car [they will need to living in Passfield]. Many will have young families – but looking to the future – when those young children get their cars……… and bear in mind that there are only 18 visitor spaces for the entire site!

Worst case scenario:

10 x 1-bed premises [potential for 20 cars] allocated only 1 SPACE EACH. Shortfall of 10

17 x 2-bed premises [potential for 51 cars] allocated only 2 SPACES EACH. Shortfall of 17

28 x 3-bed houses [potential for 112 cars] allocated only 2 SPACES EACH. Shortfall of 56

14 x 4-bed houses [potential for 70 cars] allocated only 3 SPACES EACH. Shortfall of 28

That’s 111 cars that would be fighting for 18 visitor spaces. And what happens if [God forbid] any of these people actually have visitors!!!

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Julian (11th Sep 2018  16:31:59)

Hi,

From the planning application I note that no builder has been assigned to the project? This is purely planning application and not associated with Taylor Wimpy. Its probably a bit small for their liking.

As a local resident this application and its wider plans seems quite sensible.

It would certainly benefit the area and local economy and there are many ways we can all work together to ensure that Passfield retains its appeal with nice housing, good transport links, safer roads and good internet connectivity.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- A (11th Sep 2018  16:55:39)

Easy to say when you live over the other side of Passfield Julian.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- liz (11th Sep 2018  16:56:26)

Julian

Perhaps you are not aware what is going on in Bordon not to mention the rest of the planned (and permissioned) development for the Liphook area!
There is no lack of activity.

I would have a look further up the thread at Dawn's letter sent in 2016 which sets out very clearly the likely problems with this development.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Rölli (11th Sep 2018  17:43:27)

@ Dawn - bad case of NIMBY me thinks!

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Graham (11th Sep 2018  20:13:16)

"good transport links, safer roads and good internet connectivity"
Nice to see your well developed sense of irony, Julian.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Julian (11th Sep 2018  21:06:54)

Nice to see everyone coming together as a community on such an important matter.

Bordon seems a disaster, so let's not make Passfield one too.

There are only 4 public comments on the planning application to date and it's important that everyone takes the time to present their views.

We should also consider what might happen if planning were not permitted. Surely there must be some strong opinion there too?



Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Helen (11th Sep 2018  23:30:46)

The only thing that will happen if the planning is denied is that they will try again in a few years. The owner is not going to try for permission for anything else because housing permission is the most lucrative.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Dawn Hoskins (13th Sep 2018  11:19:29)

The planners simply MUST think about where excess cars can park.

They can't just cross their fingers and hope that people won't have cars.

They can't think that allowing cars to park on Hollywater road, in front of a blind corner is ever going to be safe?

I'm one of the few people in Passfield that don't object to houses being built. We all have to live somewhere and Passfield is a lovely place - BUT it is a lovely ISOLATED place with ZERO available parking on any of the surrounding roads.

Any cars at all on Hollywater Road - even one - will cause disaster. People come around the corner (from the Liphook direction on their way to Whitehill and Greatham A3) at fast speeds - to be faced with parked cars at that point is death waiting to happen.

It's the same in the opposite direction - cars coming from Whitehill on their way to Liphook are going very fast and the position of the righthand bend blocks any view of the Lynchborough Road junction that they are approaching. Drivers have no idea that there is a likelihood of cars pulling out of Lynchborough - or even worse, that a car may be stationary waiting to turn in. If there were cars parked on Hollywater in any position close to Lynchborough Road it will end in a nasty accident.

So - if they can't park on Hollywater or Lynchborough - WHERE are they going to park. That is all I want to know to satisfy myself. Don't tell me there won't be cars - just tell me where they are going to go.

Obviously, there are also going to be other issues, no internet, a substandard electricity supply that has consistent powercuts throughout the year but particularly in winter, no walking routes, no bus on weekends and school holidays, no doctor, dentist or any amenities at all.........however - although these are going to be a nuisance for new (and existing) residents, they aren't life-threatening.

I've seen too many people die on the junctions of Hollywater Road to ever think that the risk is worth it.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Mike (13th Sep 2018  13:22:51)

With reference to parking concerns, Silent Garden is not yet complete yet the management company have recently issued a letter to all residents because of the lack of parking there and the problems it is already causing.

They are even considering a parking control scheme in order to ticket any cars that are parked on the estate roads and any non-visitor cars using visitor spaces!

EHDC Planning should not let developers get away with maximising the density of housing at the cost of restricting the amount of parking.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Suse (13th Sep 2018  13:33:08)


Dawn,great stuff, but I don't see your objection on EHDC yet?
Are you planning on adding to this,there are 2 neighbour objections and one from local council,and some criticisms / advisories from the P&CC ?

As your note / question re the no13 bus, has little response, I would assume there is little use of the part time service [ so called] as its so invariable,and unhelpful for most living in the area.

Your original letter of objection was very detailed, are you repeating this objection?
In this area,there is no identified need for housing,leaving the bats & botany out of this [ all very SI,& a 'nice to have'], but as yet there is no 'need' clarified,from what I can see anywhere.

Nothing from the developer either on paying for the upgrading of the antique Passfield exchange,all glossed over...for all those who have little / no local knowledge of the little infrastructure.

Look forward to hearing!

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Julian (13th Sep 2018  21:08:03)

Its with reading all the documents submitted with the planning application. Take the time before submitting your views on the planning portal.

They address every single point that are ever likely to be questioned. There is even a tree report down to every last shrub and its intended fate.

This is a well thought our application that should benefit Passfield. Its sometimes worth supporting & working with developers to get an agreeable compromise rather than objecting to everything without reasonable grounds to do so.

Car parking - we all know the issues and there is some more reading on parking here;

EHDC Draft Vehicle Parking Standards SPD.pdf

I have seen friends over in Bordon rip their scrawny shrubs and chipped bark supplied with their new 'affordable home' and replace it with hard standing for a car. Its done tastefully of course and provides a solution to a parking problem.

Re: Passfield Business Centre - new housing
- Dawn Hoskins (16th Sep 2018  11:49:37)

Suse
Give me time, please.
No one in Arundel Close was informed about the new application so I only found out when a kind neighbour knocked on my door to tell me about it.

I've got to read through all of the documents yet along with working full time and all of lifes's other commitments.

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