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Local Talkback

Talkback allows the local residents and businesses in Liphook to voice their views and opinions about local issues and events - get your voice heard now!

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Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Dawn Hoskins (31st Jan 2009  12:51:08)

I’m so pleased to see Liphook get such a good write up in Mr Moulands’ paper (daily mail). It would seem that Liphook in Bloom and every thing that is good about Liphook has been recognised nationally. I love the idea that we live in an openly welcoming village. I welcome Fabuliss to the hall. They are locals and they pay to rent the rooms just like the Scouts or anyone else.

I recently wrote a paper about gender discrimination in employment and public services and it is a shame that the article doesn’t offer the patrons of the Millennium Hall the respect they deserve as human beings. Discrimination against gender in any way shape or form is illegal.

I would fight very vociferously against anyone trying to get rid of them just because their club is not your ‘cup of tea’. I find flower arranging is not my cup of tea – but don’t plan to take out a home made placard and start waving it about. If you don’t like it – don’t go. Simple as!!

As for the lines about flouncy dresses and such. Go down any high street in the evening and I can assure you – you will see much worse. In fact, Liphook station, would be a place to go in the evening if you want to get offended about poor dress sense.

Leave these people alone, they are a group of friends, having a social evening. They don’t break any rules, laws, bye-laws or moral codes. I might join myself!!!

Note to Parish Clerk who is quoted in the article as worrying about there being a conflict of interest!! Get a life. What conflict? And who gave this story to the Mail in the first place????

[editor - it has now come to light, see Barry Hope (2nd Feb 2009 14:04:55), that this was actually a prepared statement from the council GIVEN by the clerk, which is his job - he was in no way involved in the preparation of it]

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Dawn Hoskins (31st Jan 2009  13:34:19)

If someone chooses to keep their gender / sexual orientation to themselves; what in Gods name do people think gives them the right to stalk them out side a club in order to take pictures and ‘out’ them publically.

I hate everything about this.

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- nikki (31st Jan 2009  13:43:51)

Gender related issues should never be an issue for sensationalism. This is akin to an anti gay / anti black lobby and its sole purpose is to create hysteria and ridicule people who don’t deserve it.

This article is a disgrace.

Further, as the ex Chairperson of the Millennium Hall, I never had a single complaint / or even conversation about this group of people...I didn't know anything about them!!.... So I would be very interested to know who the local people are that have been complaining.
It is very suspicious that no names have been given.
And well done to Eve Hope, named in the article as " an East Hampshire district council member, the area's 'Lead Councillor for Equality and Diversity" GOOD ON YOU!! at least someone is!

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Jane (31st Jan 2009  13:49:37)


Where is this luxury B & B with a TV in everyroom????!!!

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- nikki (31st Jan 2009  14:10:58)

I would like to add that during my time as Chairperson I was made aware of private party bookings who had vandalised certain parts of the Hall. If "safeguards" are needed then these should be implemented with troublesome parties....NOT to a quiet discreet group of people who have every right to hire the hall for meetings, who have caused NO trouble!!
People moan about Liphook being full of retirement villages ..well this is proof that we are a cosmopolitan town and we should be welcoming all sections of the community WITHOUT discrimination.
I have no time for boring old stalwarts who have nothing better to do than to sensationalise something like this.

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- katy (31st Jan 2009  14:20:46)

Just read the article on the Daily Mail website. I haven't laughed so much in ages...

have a read and enjoy - I particularly liked the bit about flouncy dresses and knickers displayed on the wall!

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- barbara (31st Jan 2009  14:51:07)

You are right to be suspicious of this story Dawn. It coincidently appears the week that Barry Hope is elected vicechairman of the council- Apparently according to this article, staff at the millenuim hall received a christmas card from the group- why has it taken so long then for an article to appear, they must have had plenty of meetings in the past. As far as I am aware no members of the public have complained to the parish office, I am sure it would have been up for discussion especially on the Millenuim Hall agenda! "The members of the public" quoted in the paper have not had the courage even to put their names to the quotes " a disgruntled villager", oh Yes what a put up job! The tradition of cross dressing goes back to Shakespeares time you only have to read his plays- intentionally young men took the roles of women on stage as women were not allowed to act so cross dressing was written into the play. Perhaps Liphook is not as boring as everybody thinks!

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Eneida (31st Jan 2009  15:21:19)

Being a Daily Mail reader....and I'm not ashamed to admit it...I obviously read this story in the paper this morning and thought it was a lot of fuss about nothing!!

However, the question of who gave this story to the Mail and why, is a very interesting one IMO....I did wonder if it were an attempt to embarrass a newly elected and well respected Councillor?......just a thought.


Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Linda Bryant (31st Jan 2009  15:48:54)

Well, what can I say? The Daily Mail has provided Fabuliss with free advertising (albeit with an unnecessary sleazy overtone). Fabuliss was created so that cross-dressers and indeed any transgendered person, can meet and relax with like minded people together with their friends and families in private and comfortable surroundings. Why would we need to hide away and feel ashamed, there are no laws broken, no improper dress or behaviour. As you will appreciate cross dressers meet in many such venues across the country and are rightly proud of their right to dress and live their lives as they choose.

We have met far too many bigots over the years who somehow manage to link cross-dressers as perverts, gay or downright sick people, which is certainly not the case. Many of you have passed a cross-dresser in the street and not even noticed, many of you will also know a cross-dresser or someone that does. So if the worst thing that they do is put on a dress and makeup, is the world going to end, will society grind to a standstill? No, diversity makes for a more interesting and warm society. For that reason Fabuliss is here to stay.

The statement in the Daily Mail that The Millenium Hall did not know they were having “trannies” is untrue, especially as there is always a member of the council on duty at the hall when we (or anyone else) is using the hall. Yes I do book the venue as “a gathering of friends” because that is exactly what it is. It isn’t a club, there are no members - just guests spending a social evening together.

The Daily Mail may have damaged us personally, as you can imagine, this is a private aspect of our life to be shared with those we choose to share it with, but the damage is done now and we will have to deal with it. However, the emails and phone calls of support we have received has been wonderful, it seems many more people are happy to support and even promote Fabuliss than berate us, for that we are extremely grateful.

We are very proud of Fabuliss and our Fabulous Girls, unfortunately those girls who are making their first tentative steps outside the confines of their homes may have their confidence damaged by this article which we are very concerned about.

So thanks Daily Mail you have boosted the numbers of our guests and enlightened the people of Liphook, most of whom seem to be warm and generous minded people (as are our guests). The bigots and small minded people? Well as Dawn says “get a life”

Now, when is Liphook Carnival? I think a float is a wonderful idea - Trannies on Tour!

Linda Bryant of Fabuliss

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- karen (31st Jan 2009  17:18:52)

For anyone who has not seen this article it appears in today's Daily Mail (page 9!!) Firstly and most importantly, I am delighted the Carnival got a mention!!!

I actually attended a meeting at the Millennium Hall on the night this particular group were hiring the Canada Room. Initially I thought I had missed out on an invitation for a Girls Night Out as the room looked fabulous - decked out in fairy lights, glowing candles and girly bits and bobs! Once I realised that several of the 'ladies' were extremely tall and sporting a six o'clock shadow, I was slightly taken aback, purely as I wasn't expecting to see a gathering of that nature in the middle of Liphook in the middle of winter. My only concern was how to explain what was going on to my 8 year old who was at the Hall for a LAMPS rehearsal. I must agree Dawn, some of the information must have come from someone in the know!!

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Sue W (31st Jan 2009  17:24:19)

I actually thought the piece was very mild on the subject and could have gone much further.

I was very angry that the Wife of one offering hospitality was named and her job disclosed - what ever for? I am sure that in the end Mrs ? has already gone throuh many emotional traumas and come out supporting her man, and should not become the named victim in this case.

Dawn, dont blame the messenger and I am sure Bill would love to have the paper in his name, but just because he writes for it doesnt make it 'his'. I somehow feel that you have put 2 & 2 together and perhaps made 5. (perhaps you are discrimating and jumping to conclusions) Who was the resident that they spoke to?

Funny that when a paper wrote supporting the Passfield PO it was good and fantastic, the ying and yang will always be there.

I agree with your comments that people are entitled to be who ever they wish, and discrimination of sexuality should be discouraged.

However, having worked along side a Male, for 7 years who then disclosed that he wished to be Female, found this very difficult to deal with. Even after 'his' operation, implants etc and living as a woman for 2 years prior to the op, still find it 'strange' and uncomfortable, I appreciate all the worries and ojbections that may be in peoples minds - but I am adult enough to accept that others will live their lives differently to me, and that is OK. Its a bit like those who are complaining about people sitting on a bench during the day drinking, I wouldn't do it, but do I have the right to stop others - NO!

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Dawn Hoskins (31st Jan 2009  17:48:53)

Sue, I don't think that the Paper writing in support of the Passfield PO can possibly be compared to this.

This piece was written with the express intention of ridiculing individuals. It has stalked a person to take photos and publically 'out' him, for a way of life that he hoped to keep private.

It promotes homophobia and anti gay feeling in general and in an age when gender related discrimination is PROHIBITED BY LAW it even includes a statement by the parish clerk about his concerns. Public servants like this should watch themselves very carefully if they wish to remain in their jobs quite frankly!!

[editor - it has now come to light, see Barry Hope (2nd Feb 2009 14:04:55), that this was actually a prepared statement from the council GIVEN by the clerk, which is his job - he was in no way involved in the preparation of it]

As citizens of this country we are entitled to a private family life, and that includes gender reassgnment or cross-dressing. The paper has seriously crossed the line in my opinion in thinking that it has some God given right to publically anounce to the world an issue which many would prefer to be kept quiet.

If they were stalking gay clubs we would all be up in arms about harassment and discrimination - so why is this sort of persecution seen as OK?

A very different sort of publicity than a rally to save a post office. It is devisive and I hate everything about it.

The Mail should be ashamed.

On the up side, I hope that those going through gender reassignment or those enjoying cross-dressing will now know where to come to meet others. [editor - comment removed]

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- sue (31st Jan 2009  18:04:26)

good god haven't the mail and the silly people of liphook got better things to talk about other than a few like minded people meeting at the village hall once a month to have a chat who are the people that have complained?????? to them get a life there is one outside of liphook! i for one hope that this does not stop linda and Natasha from meeting there friends in the comfort of the Canada room i have been there myself and to say it was a disgrace to the Canadians using that room is utter rubbish maybe major whats his name ought to go along himself and see first hand what goes on then he can give his opinion , its not fair to discriminate against anybody these days life is to short if you want to complain complain about the kids who get drunk in liphook do something positive about that problem i think its great liphook in the 21st century at last!!!!! and cant wait for the carnival that should be fun

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Alex Cameron (31st Jan 2009  18:11:00)

I saw this in the paper today and i really haven't laughed like that in a long time. The Daily Mail itself is an absolute joke but it's clear Mark Bryant may well have really offended someone down the line to get that kind of beating - make no mistake, it's a personal attack on him.

"I don't think this is an appropriate use of the Millennium Hall in an area where we still put a value on traditional family life. Parents were dropping their children off for a Scout meeting when these people started tottering out of their Mercs and BMWs in wigs and make-up. "

Whoever you are: shut up you sanctimonious self-righteous old bigot. That's not who we are or what the people of Liphook are like at all.

Bring on the basques, colour, knickers, fun and decorations. Load it up for the carnival too.

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Dawn Hoskins (31st Jan 2009  18:47:16)

It would seem that the discriminatory manner in which this article has been written has created a wave of support FOR rather than the hysteria intended.

Here are some of the comments registered on-line:

Typical of this country, someone is a little different, doing nobody any harm but out come all the old prejudices!
why do the council need safeguards? Safeguards for what?
Just leave them alone and stop stirring up hatred.
- Gordon Kerr, Stroud, 30/1/2009 23:37

Safeguards, you must be joking, what harm are the members of Fabuliss doing to anybody by just having a social together in the Church Hall, maybe the Village would prefer a group of foul mouthed drunken Ladettes to Ladies ??????????
- Will Ashton, Sydney, Australia., 31/1/2009 1:11

They rent their hall space and time, and are doing no harm to the local community. Just because some men like to dress up in women's clothes does not mean that they are sexual deviants. LEAVE THEM ALONE.
- Clare, Bath, England, 31/1/2009 1:21

Why is it bizarre? These people are not rapists or murderers! They are men who enjoy dressing as women, no more no less. Leave them alone, they're harming no-one at all, let them do what makes them happy.
- J.S., London, England., 31/1/2009 2:14

I think theres nothing wrong with whats going on here, whats wrong is people just assuming the worst and having narrow minded views, whats wrong with a group of friends meeting up? Jeez there are worse things happening in the world out there, let these people carry on in peace.
- sam, london, uk, 31/1/2009 8:02

Potentially thousands in Liphook next month then.
Will the Millenium hall be large enough ?
- Tim, Northants, 31/1/2009 8:27

Can't think why they go to Liphook. It's dead and the good 'folk' of Liphook should be pleased anyone wants to go there.
- sb, Guildford, 31/1/2009 9:35

For Gods Sake Leave them Alone! They're not doing any harm to anybody - people of Liphook- Lighten Up!
- Lynda, Austria, 31/1/2009 9:46

People are way too up tight... live and let live! What harm does a wig and some make-up do? I hope they continue to be welcomed and are able to enjoy each others company.

Those fuss-budgets and prudes should apply their time and efforts to matters of which could actually use their time and attention. Victims of crime, abuse and poverty, the rain forests, endangered species, civil liberties. Ignoring these things and paying attention to this? Now *that* is a real moral outrage.

Oh, and as a Canadian - I think its quite appropriate that their gathering in the Canada Room... we're a country of people that take pride in our diversity and acceptance of all people. Let them be!
-S, BC, Canada, 31/1/2009 9:50

Perhaps the vullagers might prefer a convention of axe murderers instead? That will probably fit their snobby middle classed attitudes far better I would think, then the kids could be dropped off in complete safety. Being that they're St. John's cadets they'd be able to get some practise in just before they clear up!

No, this is silly. Why shouldn't they have these meetings? They have to have them somewhere don't they? And every single tranny I've ever met (and there have been a few) have been thoroughly decent, intelligent and well-balanced human beings. Or perhaps the main complaint was the fact that they were getting out of expensive cars... well I'm with them on that one, it shouldn't be allowed!!!
- Dr. Shoe, London, England, 31/1/2009 9:58

Congratulations for almost succeeding in wringing a story from this !
If only your journalist could have found anyone who really cared that much....
- SM, Exeter, 31/1/2009 10:23

Those people in Liphook objecting to this need to remember my father fought in WW2 so EVERYONE could enjoy democratic choice. Those who object are the very same people who try, through their blinkered, arrogant views, to stifle freedoms within our society. Trouble is, with the help of their PC Brigade friends they are winning!
- malarky, ledbury, 31/1/2009 10:32

Oh for goodness sake - they're not doing any harm.
Just when did Britain turn into a nation of busybodies and thought-police spies, and why are all you readers putting up with it?
- A. Wright-Burke, London Bridge, 31/1/2009 10:45

What a narrow minded and prejudiced article! They are doing no harm whatsoever. Those complaining residents need to learn tolerance. I can also think of a great deal more dangerous groups that could be hiring rooms they would really need to worry about!
- Jean Nesbitt, Margate, Kent, 31/1/2009 10:57

What a horrible article.
These people are doing nothing wrong - and the undertone of this article is nasty and vindictive.
Shame on the editor for allowing it to be published - you should know better.
- Emily Darcy, Wimbledon, UK, 31/1/2009 10:59

Well I live in the middle of Liphook and this is the first time I've heard of this....what a hoot!! I can assure all of the concerned posters here that as far as I know there are no groups of angry villagers about to attack these 'ladies'!!!
- Eneida, Liphook, Hampshire, 31/1/2009 11:18

I quite often get cross when dressing, nothing fits any more.
Good luck to them if they are doing no one any harm.
Anyway I had the misfortune of stopping in Liphook once and what a non-memorable event that was, it was like taking a break in a cemetery but less interesting.
- Andrew Roberts, Basingstoke, 31/1/2009 11:24

In the light of the binge drinking, glassings, shootings and stabbings that regularly occur at other events all over the country, is this peaceful and slightly bizzare event worth getting worked up over.
- steve, yarm, 31/1/2009 11:25

I know Liphook quite well and it seems that this sleepy village needs some brightening up. Anyway what's up with guys dressing up as women. Just go to the city of London and see how many women are in pin-stripe suits.
Go for it Guys / Girls (what ever you want to be)....!!
- Dudley Piggott, Tbilisi, Georgia, 31/1/2009 11:52

I've lived in Liphook for 10 years, i just assumed all the women were ugly!
- Chris Powers, Liphook, 31/1/2009 12:25

So what?
It isn't 1950 anymore.
-JB, York, 31/1/2009 12:36

oh for god's sake leave them be. Who cares who wears what they're not hurting anyone. They didn't bring down the own when no one knew that they weren't women why does that change now? All these close minded people need to grow up.
-Emma, Belfast, 31/1/2009 12:56

It is really nothing to do with the town. It has everything to do with human rights and if these people are paying customers who are using the facility to socialise and dance so what? If this small minded village doesn't want the commerece that these folks bring to it, I am sure there are loads of other villages who would like to host the fabulous event.
- Charlotte, London, 31/1/2009 12:56

A fight for traditional family values? Give me a break. If that would be the guide for renting the hall, you would think they'd have to bar divorced women from entrance, or those 'worse', single women with children!
Hopefully common sense will prevail and people will continue to peacefully coexist, also in Liphook.
- Jenny Sand, Stavanger, Norway, 31/1/2009 13:22

Are they harming anyone or enciting hatred? NO!
I'm sick of people in this country being so bigotted! Leave them be!
- Jane, Chester, 31/1/2009 13:23

Why does it matter that it is an 'upmarket' area, does that mean that all transvestites are common and stupid and therefore shouldn't be allowed in? The elderly residents having a good old moan, probably their favourite hobby, are just being nosy. If they don't like it they don't need to know about it do they. Transvestites are people you know, not criminals or animals.
-katie, Bristol, 31/1/2009 13:29

I can hardly believe it...some of them drive "BMW's and Merc's" - that's shocking!!!!!
I think Transvestites are about as eccentric and English as you get, isn't that what village halls are for, for goodness sake, let them get on with it and stop making such a silly fuss.
- Richard, Hastings, 31/1/2009 14:19

Puzzling to some, amusing to others, harmless to ALL.
Safeguards indeed! This is England! we're allowed to be a little eccentric, or do the PC brigade want to take that away from us too?
- Rob, Leeds, 31/1/2009 14:20

It's a free society. To imply that people should not be allowed to book a parish hall for perfectly innocuous gathers like the rest of us merely on the grounds of their transgender is sad, discriminatory and shows up a deep-seated level of misunderstanding.
- Anthony Woodman, Winchester, UK, 31/1/2009 14:29

In this age of equality and non descrimination why do people still have such an intolerance for people who are different?
They are not doing any harm they just dress in womens clothing, what 'safeguards' are needed exactly?
If parents are concerned about their children then educate them about transvestites, transgender etc and stop the intolerance. These people just want to get on with their lives without people pointing, staring and chasing them out of town like we still live in the dark ages!!
- AW, Norfolk, 31/1/2009 14:55

I LIVE THERE, it is quiet distressing.
- Nick Gandy, LIPHOOK, 31/1/2009 15:37

You mean some children saw this??? Oh, the horror!
Maybe they will grow up to be more rounded people than their closed-minded parents
- Victoriah, Wisconsin, USA, 31/1/2009 16:01

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- John (31st Jan 2009  20:21:16)

Surely the most shocking thing about this article is that house prices and asylum seekers aren’t mentioned once!

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Nick (31st Jan 2009  20:26:49)

Well what an entertaining read that was - As someone who grew up in Liphook, and returns for the Carnival each year, I guess the Carnival Committee are in for a good time this year, as the procession is cut down to 5 floats now that SOMEONE seems to have such a problem with "Men dressed as Women". Obviously, it's a slow news day if this sort of rubbish get's in the Daily Mail, I'm sure there are more important things to worry about these days !

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- sue (31st Jan 2009  21:15:15)

thank the lord for sensible people like you dawn i have been reading your comments with interest like you i have been online at the mail and have read all the very positive comments posted and i agree with you live and let live there has been no harm done i personally think this has got totally out of hand and i think the person responsible has stirred more than they bargind for i feel this has to do with internal politics of the millennium hall and who ever it was who got in touch with the mail has little idea of the hurt they must have caused these people who just wanted to meet with friends who are like minded have they any idea what it must be like to be hounded by the national press to have your picture plastered over a whole page for all to see i hope they read these email and cringe with shame and as for safeguards ect the treasurer feels he has to look into get a life

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- becky kent (31st Jan 2009  21:28:20)

As a crossdresses that has been to liphook and attended 1 of the meetings I can honestly say that it is not a den of iniquity as described in the paper in fact there are more perverts outside the trannie world who escape criticism. Just because we wear dresses and make-up ,something many of us have questioned as to why and cannot answer does not mean we have to be linked with everything immoral.I am married to a loving wife who totally supports me on what I do ,i was married in a wedding dress in front of a registrar and my female name is even on the wedding certificate giving it a legal status.My wife probably enjoys participating in the dressing up as much as I do as girls rarely get the chance these days as jeans and tee shirts seem to be the order of the day, at least we keep the tradition of dresses and skirts alive.The meeting at liphook is not a closed shop just for trannies,we would welcome all comers to the event and "real" girls especially as they can give help and advice and tips.
I have travelled the country staying in hotels and going to public events and people we meet enjoy talking to us and having their photo taken with us .The hotel staff (male and female) say we are the best customers they get, no trouble ,rowdiness,fighting or damage, in fact the only fighting is the staff trying to get themselves working for that weekend something unique to any other group week.One particular staff member has refused to go on holiday with her husband and even brings along her family and they dress up along with us and join in the fun,THEY ARE TRULY SORRY TO SEE US GO.
At other events hairdressers, beauticians and people selling make-up, jewellery and other girly products all come along some wary at first but after being in our company soon enjoy themselves,feel at ease and treat us as girls the way we like to be.
To the small minded people there is an old expression of don't knock it untill you've tried it ,come and meet us ,talk to us ,we don't bite and who knows even if you are still not enthusiastic about us you may at least understand more and feel at ease with what we do.
Becky (t.v)and Janet(Real girl)

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Steve Read (31st Jan 2009  21:53:48)

What a cracker, and I thought Liphook was a bit dull.
First I knew about this was on here, mind you the last time I read a Mail was when my chips were wrapped up in one.
Go for it 'Girls' and get that float in the carnival.
I'am in the process of writing a similar paper and struggling to be honest, any tips would be appreciated.

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Russ & Irene Ellis (31st Jan 2009  23:13:41)

You have all missed the point The person who informed the mail was out to discredit the parish council but the article was so badly written that all it did was to high light Fabuliss, embarrass the couple who hire the hall and make the people of Liphook all look small minded. I think this person should be totally ashamed of themselves to show Liphook in this light.

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- freddy (1st Feb 2009  01:03:13)

As a concerned parent of young children that use the Millennium Hall, I am not happy with the idea of my children being exposed to this at such a young age.

I am worried that this group is mixing in the vicinity at the same time as young children.

I am surprised that I seem to be the only one with concerns as there are no negative comments on this talkback website. Whereas on the Daily Mail site they express both views for and against.

I believe I am a fair minded person but there are other venues that they could hire that would not raise too many eyebrows, or the meetings could start later once the minors have gone home.

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- karen (1st Feb 2009  09:28:45)

Just to set the record straight and answer some of the comments that have been made:

1. We are not close-minded people here in Liphook, however, if I choose not to tell my children who, in my opinion, would not understand at their age that some men like to dress as women, then that is my right as their parent.

2. The women of Liphook are beautiful.....cheeky

3. The Carnival always has and always will be about celebrating life in the village. Everyone is welcome and we will, as always, have a fabulous Carnival. The only threat to the Carnival is lack of HELPERS!!!

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Eneida (1st Feb 2009  10:47:47)

I find it very strange indeed that some parents are concerned about 'exposing' their young children to men dressed as women (or vice versa I guess)!!

Isn't the Pantomine a great British tradition, specifically aimed at entertaining children? .....and surely you can't get any more cross dressing than in one of those do those parents explain that....just curious!


Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Irene Ellis (1st Feb 2009  11:59:28)

I think that you mums should stop worrying about their children knowing that some men like to dress as women sometimes. After all there are loads of women that dress as men all the time but nobody takes any notice of that. We don’t ask them to only come out after dark. Children react to the actions of their parents and if you are OK with it so will they be.

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Elizabeth Boyle (1st Feb 2009  12:35:33)

I am of the same oppinion as Freddie every email posted on this issue seems to critisising the Daily Mail. I am sure other people have raised concerns but like my first posting it has not been put on to this web site.It is my experiance when trying to book meetings for a residents association at a different village hall in the area, we were not allowed to occupy the hall until all of the boy scouts had left the premises. As there is only one toilet at the Millennium Hall which one is used by the ladies/men. I think Freddie is right to be concerned.

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Barry Hope (1st Feb 2009  13:05:44)

I have watched the posts on this topic grow minute by minute and it seems extremely evident that the vast majority of the people of Liphook are fair minded, tolerant and a great bunch of human beings that are happy to live alongside each other, providing support and encouragement where necessary to others, whether we know them personally or not. This is so commendable and should not go unmentioned and I for one am proud to be part of this great community.

It is such a heart rending disappointment and embarrassment to all of us however, that one or two individuals in our midst decided to cause trouble.

Whatever their motive (and I won’t discuss this here at the moment) I do really hope that they fully understand what they have done. They have quite likely completely wrecked an individual’s life including that of his family members. Have they really any idea of the devastation and hurt they have caused, not to the parish council or councillors, but to an individual member of the public who was doing no more than going about his life in the way he chose without hurting a sole. I consider that the person or persons responsible for this are as bad as, or even worse than, a mugger who attacks an old lady in the street and steals her pension money, their act is as despicable as that and is like an emotional knife in the back. I only pray that their name or names are not discovered because they may come to regret their actions in the future if they were.

Kind regards

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- jim (1st Feb 2009  13:43:51)

If you say russ & irene that we have all missed the point, why has the said councillor’s not been on here to put their side of the story. I read this website most days and they isn't many a day when one of the councillors isn't banging on about some issue. It seems strange to me as a tax paying resident of liphook that there has been no comment, if they have nothing to hide, why then do we have silence?

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Frank (1st Feb 2009  14:15:44)

It would seem in this enlighten age there are still a few people that have problems with their own sexual peccadillo’s , I’ve discovered that people who object to another’s preferences quite often feel threatened or unsure of their own inclination this can often manifest itself in ridicule or supposed antipathy. The words “small mined” best describes people like this, I applaud the efforts of this group too freely gather and enjoy their differences.

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Linda Bryant (1st Feb 2009  14:22:26)

re: Freddie and Elizabeth Boyle and toilets.

What on earth are you going on about, yes there is only one male toilet. The TGirls use the ladies and the disabled toilets whilst the children are on the premises.

You also miss the point that most of the TGirls are married men with children and therefore very sensitive to the feelings of others. You are still implying that TGirls are perverted, everyone has to use a toilet even you.

Everyone connected to Fabuliss is a "normal", warm hearted individual. That includes TGirls, real girls, married couples and organisations that support us.

You really should get out more.

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Linda Bryant (1st Feb 2009  14:23:59)

Dawn, would you please contact me

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Sue W (1st Feb 2009  16:57:08)

Having read through these posts and those of the Mail, think that every one has got their Knickers in a complete twist.

The community of Liphook is not up in arms about this - in fact most comments have been that nobody actually knew this group of friends met in the village!

Secondly, it has been given a fair degree of humour - not laughing at the cross dressers, but that it has happened without making any fuss.

The winners in all this are actually those who some feel have been persecuted and to 'oust' private affairs of any kind in the press is hurtful but the press animal is not that compassionate.

Maybe Mr Bryant would have preferred it to remain quiet, but now with such resounding support that must give them hope for the future, and I am sure their event will be packed full. For Fabuliss, it is fabulous advertising.

The real downside to this is that the Community of Liphook has somehow been lumped together as a pile of nosey parkers and bigots - not a fair assessment to judge all the same as the opinion of perhaps one resident. The 'open minded' posters seem to have become very closed in their opinions of Liphook residents. It takes more than an inch of lace to make a basque!!

Good luck to you all, and as one person said, if you have never tried it don’t knock it - come and visit us here and see what kind of honest hardworking people we are!

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Phil MCNamara (1st Feb 2009  18:36:32)

As a Liphook resident, I am shocked and outraged as a result of this story.

Up until this thread, I had ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA that people read the Daily Mail.

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Kirsty (1st Feb 2009  19:55:39)

Dear all,
I'm not going to try and be clever or sarcastic as it seems the majority of posters have been, I will simply say I am very disappointed at the reaction of certain individuals.
I have read the article in the Daily Mail and have read the comments from posters on this site. It seems to me that the real issue is that those in favour of these "women" meeting at the Millennium Hall are failing to take in anyone else's opinion. I'm not here to discriminate against anyone but I am here to suggest that if you expect anyone to accept what goes on in the Hall, then you should be prepared to see why people think its wrong instead of dismissing it on grounds of Political Correctness and all that jazz!
The fact of the matter is that these "meetings" are going on at the same time as youth group meetings such as the Scouts and about this, something has to be done! I sincerely hope that the right decision is made and a solution found, I would hate to see Liphook divided over this!

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Mark Bryant (1st Feb 2009  20:47:09)

I am surprised by that last post by Kirsty. The scouts are far and away at the other side of the building and even use another front door. It is only the St Johns Ambulance meets that clash with us on the same night down the corridor and the majority of them are teenagers, some of who find it a giggle and others don't even seem to bother.

Please please please please don't assume ALL children should be shielded from us anyway (even though the scouts actually are because of where they are in the building). What do you think we're going to do ? - molest them ? Kirsty, do you actually know what a transvestite is ?

I am, unfortunately, the poor sod who was exposed in this article - my life is a total mess through it and at present FABULISS is not even on my mind...... trying to rebuild my life & confidence is, however. I really didn't deserve this - it's just not fair. I have sat back long enough without making comment because, to be honest, all you kind people on here (and the Daily Mail blog) have been so nice and have been my voice. Thank you all so much - I wish I could meet every one of you and shake your hand. Thank you so, so, so much. Barry Hope's comments earlier today on this blog explain my situation completely and perfectly. I am pretty much destroyed. So thank you Barry for your comments.

And thanks a huge bunch Daily Mail for ruining an innocent person's personal reputation. I didn't know I actually had any enemies !

Thank you Liphook for your support - I am truly touched.

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Kaz (1st Feb 2009  20:55:13)

Sorry to sound like I am being difficult but I don't think it is right that the TGirls use the Ladies toilets. On the night I was at the Millennium Hall whilst you had a TGirl meeting, there was also a LAMPS rehearsal at which there were a large number of both young girls and boys. When all is said and done, this is still a case of a man (albeit dressed as a woman) using a Ladies toilet. If I wear trousers to the Millennium Hall should I be using the Mens loo instead?

I know I am going to get shot down in flames here but I feel quite strongly about this. Surely I am not the only one here who feels this way....?

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- jon (1st Feb 2009  21:32:53)

Um,,, I read the daily mail.....

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Philip Jordan (1st Feb 2009  21:45:40)

As a Parish Coucillor of limited experience I find this episode has its pleasing but mostly very annoying aspects.

Pleasing, that there is an open-minded and honesty displayed by many in stating their differing views in considering the broader issues raised, but infuriating that such a manipulation of the priveleged position held by a national newspaper be used to support the not so subtle inuendos and distortions included in the article. Might it be the manipulation of a few for the persuance of personnal agendas?

Can we truly be asked to believe that an occurance such as this would excite even the most desperate sub-editor to commit resource to "follow the story" unless they were provided on a plate?

The alternative senario is that more local idle hands are at work. I congratulate the local press for not permitting themselves to be persuaded into considering it necessary to "follow a so called national story" I hope this attitude prevails.

If individuals have a gripe then let them have the courage to openly voice their views. I recognise that openness is sometimes a difficult torch to bear, however at least to do so is honest and better seeks to benefit and serve the community.

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Nicola (1st Feb 2009  23:22:25)

So, some feel it is wrong that the meetings are taking place at the same time as the scouts meetings. In that case:

(1) Have the alternative meeting starting after the scouts have finished.
(2) If that is not possible, ensure that the scouts and friends are not in the same part of the building or the friends start earlier or later than the scouts arrive - by that I mean, if the scouts are in one hall and the friends in another, surely the twain never shall meet?
(3) Give over, if the scouts see the friends, the worst they are going to do is snigger surely? Teenage embarassment! It is not going to affect their own sexual orientation surely?
(4) If the parents of scouts are upset, then maybe they ought to look at themselves for putting the wrong impression into young peoples minds. Parents should bring children up to realise that not everyone is the same and as such, they should not be subject to ridicule, they should just be tolerated and left to get on with it.

I have a son with special needs and he understands about gays, lesbians and transvestites because I have explained it to him. If he can take it on the chin and understand it, why not the scouts parents? Or is it because I and he are so used to being ridiculed and ignored because he is different that we can live and let live?

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Barry Hope (2nd Feb 2009  10:04:09)


I would like to congratulate you for having the courage to post on this site. I know that life must be far from easy for you at the moment but I do sincerely hope it will not last forever and that you will be able to rebuild over time.

Your courage, honesty and openness does you proud and you should not, even for one minute, think you are a lesser person than anyone of us. You have not hurt anyone nor have you wanted to cause problems for any other person, you do not deserve for this to have happened.

I am certain the persons or persons responsible for all of this must be reading these posts (even if it is due to ghoulish interests) and that they therefore must be totally aware of what they have caused. If they had your strength of courage and honesty they would have posted on here to apologise for the hurt and distress they have caused, even if they remained anonymous (having the extra courage to give their names would be too much to expect of cowards and bullies for that is what they are).

I don’t suppose that will happen and maybe we will never know, but at the very least they will have to live with their conscience for the rest of their lives whereas you can hold your head high and be proud of who you are.

Best wishes to you and Linda

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Phil McNamara (2nd Feb 2009  12:25:12)

Middle-aged men dressed as women holding underwear events in a local village hall more used to hosting scouts, girl guides and residents?

Wouldn't happen in Dubai.

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Mark Bryant (2nd Feb 2009  12:37:19)

In response to Phil McNamara's post above .... Phil, I hope you are joking. And for your info we don't hold underwear parties.

Dubai ? ..... Move there, Phil !?!?! (LOL)

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- barbara (2nd Feb 2009  13:09:27)

I do not think that what has gone on is against the law. Until it is, and until it is placed on a council agenda for discussion, then only you who see this site know my opinions.

It is not true the councillors have kept quiet. I was unaware that this group had meetings, and I would have said so what? Three of us councillors, as private individuals have posted on this site already. I was unaware of the story, I have not heard that there have been complaints I have not been telephoned by the Daily Mail for my opinion.

This is a story concocted to embarrass The TVS and also especially returning councillor Barry Hope, who this last week was voted Chairman of the Millenium Hall. The story must have been around since christmas. "SOMEBODY NOTICED A CHRISTMAS CARD FROM THEM SENT TO THE HALL STAFF! This" somebody" has contacted the journos.

If a journalist were to telephone I would tell them that if there were any illegality eg drugs, binge drinking vandalism, muggings etc caused by this group at the hall, then I would be concerned. My attitude would not make the pages of the daily mail!

It is amazing is it not that apart from Major Frank these disgruntled villagers have not had the courage to come forward, although I think I know their identities. Well done for Gabrielle Pike the local reporter on the Herald for keeping out of it, although I am sure she must have been aware of the story as well.

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Barry Hope (2nd Feb 2009  14:04:55)

As you know, I have always supported openness and honesty in Parish Council affairs, this applies to all issues that the council deal with. It is for this reason that I would like to just clear up one point in all of this that seems to have created some confusion and which has given rise to some unfair personal criticism of the clerk to the council.

Mr Paul Harris of the Daily Mail phoned the parish council office at 9.45am on the morning of Wednesday 28th and to inform the council that he was on the trail of a story regarding a transvestites/cross dressing organisation using the Millennium Hall. He also raised a number of associated issues that someone had obviously told him about. The clerk had to act very quickly and quite rightly contacted both John Tough as Chair of the council and myself as newly elected Vice Chair of the council (this happened during last Monday night’s pc meeting by the way) to inform us of the approach by the Daily Mail and to seek advice from us both.

John and I attended the parish office for a meeting with the clerk to discuss the Parish Council response to the Daily Mail. We discussed the issues raised by the reporter, the implications and also the wording of the response.

The wording of the response was agreed between myself and John and was as follows....: “The Parish Council thank you for bringing these matters to our attention. The issues you raise will be looked into urgently. We will look and see if there are any conflicts of interest and if any additional safeguards need to put into place.”

The clerk (as it is his job as clerk to the council) was asked by myself and John to phone the reporter back and give him the agreed response. I would like to be absolutely clear that, at no time did the clerk decide on the wording or say anything to the Daily Mail that was not created or agreed by John Tough or myself and the statement made must not be interpreted as being his personal concerns or thoughts as that is simply not true.

The reason that John and I agreed this statement was because we had to respond quickly in some way to the issues raised. It was not because we considered that we as a council had done anything wrong, it was simply to ensure that we did what would be expected of us as a responsible council and if anything, to confirm we had got it right.

In my own personal view, I consider that the PC have acted properly as a responsible public body should have done, both with respect to the hiring of the Hall, and in respect of their response to the Media and that they have also demonstrated their commitment to anti-discrimination practices. They have also been very careful in considering the needs of other users of the hall. If there are further arrangements or adjustments that we need to make I am sure we can do this to the satisfaction of all concerned without too much effort.

As newly elected Chair of the Liphook Millennium Centre Management Committee (again resulting from last Monday night’s PC meeting) I will always try to act in the best interests of the majority of Liphook (you can’t please everyone I know) ensuring that we treat all equally, without discrimination or preference which I am sure the council do already.

Kind regards to all.

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- lis (2nd Feb 2009  15:03:00)

I left the scout hall last week with my son and crossed paths with a TGirl (hope this is a correct inoffensive term). Whereas I was mildly surprised to see transvestite walking from Sainsbury's carpark, my son walked past and didn't even notice. The person in question was very dressed very conservatively. Now I've got more important thing to do..... building a snowman!

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Roy (2nd Feb 2009  17:22:34)

Well I have not had such a laugh for years. Trannies running amuck . Illicit sex in the Station car park.Public drinking. Vigilante groups wanting to run them out of town.The nerve of the Royal Anchor closing their private car park and denying Moms from parking whilst dropping of kids to lazy and pampered to walk to school.

And then we have the two traffic lights in the village that change colour from red to green, and the very offensive "flashing" yellow lights at the zebra crossings.

Better have a sit down. Too much excitement!!

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Kirsty (2nd Feb 2009  17:26:12)

Mark, how dare you insult my intelligence by suggesting I do not know what a transvestite is. The phrase originates from the latin, "trans" meaning "across" and "vestire" meaning "to dress." In future, don't try and insult people by attacking their intellect, unless of course this is your only means of fighting back?
I have never once suggested that you "girls" would "molest" the scouts so lets not go making libelous claims thankyou very much. If you can't see that what you are doing might have a negative effect on these children you should have gone to specsavers!
And Nicola! How can you sit there and place blame on the parents?!
And to you all, please research Alison Dale on the internet and then tell me if you still think that what Fabuliss does is all harmless.

[editor - from the Dail Mail "Neither Miss nor Mr Dale...has ever attended a Liphook meeting - Fabuliss was merely planning to invite her to judge a beauty contest."]

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- sue (2nd Feb 2009  17:32:13)

i have read some concern from parents regarding the tvs using the ladies toilets when i attended a meeting which i must tell you was great fun and very interesting i think you will find that all tvs are asked to use the disabled toilets a few new girls didn't realize this at first as for the scouts they enter there own building from another side they have nothing to do with the millenium the young people who attend the st johns come in and take absolutely no notice of the girls who arrive for fabuliss surly if they had a problem they would have made a complaint by now in fact there is one lovely lady who attends st johns she is quiet fascinated by the meeting she thinks its great for the tvs to have a place to meet

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Phil McNamara (2nd Feb 2009  17:58:37)

Mark B - Yes, of course I was joking!! I'm afraid I don't really take this Talkback thing very seriously ....


(PS - Dubai? Yes please.)

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Steve Read (2nd Feb 2009  18:46:05)

In reply to your post I would like to encompass the sentiments expressed by Barry.
At the moment everything to you must seem destroyed, but forget the views of a few narrow minded individuals and take heart from all the support expressed on here and carry on doing what you want to do.
Be positive and hang in there, put that float in the carnival, show the Fab Girls off, invite the local press in for a preview and generally stick two fingers up to the local bigots.
Nothing upsets these type of people more than to carry on regardless, if you walk they have won.

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Dawn Hoskins (2nd Feb 2009  18:55:41)

Hello Barry

I must say that the press statement about conflicts of interest has done damage to the PC, (as I have said to you personally). It is very unfortunate – but it is done now. From our conversation, it appears that the conflict of interest mentioned was in fact NOT in relation to the TGirls being in the Hall, but another matter.

It is a sign of a good man, that you have stepped up to the mark here. As the clerk was the only party we knew about (apart from the person delivering the piece in the 1st place) it would have been very easy for you to sit back and let him fall on his sword so to speak.

Honesty and openness can be a pain in the bum when it means admitting mistakes, but you have now done so and it appears that it was more of a misquote by the paper than a statement of concern about the use of the hall.

The real problem remains however. Someone with inside knowledge [and an axe to grind] has handed a salacious story to the Mail which has quite literally ruined the lives of a man and his family. This act of deliberate malice is inexcusable and devoid of all morals. What could they have possibly have hoped to achieve?

Having a Parish Council that can be seen by all and sundry as morally bankrupt does the entire community an injustice. The rift within the PC has been bought very clearly to public attention in a national paper and it cannot be allowed to continue.

I believe an enquiry should be held to find out who would stoop so low as to destroy a mans life; discredit the Parish Council and make the residents of Liphook look like closed minded bigots in the eyes of the world.

If only that person was a big enough an individual to come forward as you have done.

This whole thing stinks – we can all smell it, and someone’s head should roll.

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Mark Bryant (2nd Feb 2009  19:00:49)

Re Kirsty's comments above ...... well here we go Kirsty, you are taking exactly the same stance as the Dialy Mail ... didn't take you long did it ?

Quote latin nonsense to me all evening if you like on the various meanings of transvestism but how dare you suggest there is more to meets the eye at FABULISS because of Alison Dale. Don't take me for a mug Kirsty. Please.

On our website is a photo of me and Alison Dale in our photo gallery. We were both at an event in Essex a few months ago. She was there in her capacity as a judge at a transgender beauty contest and my wife and I went along to see how they ran their contest (we are thinking of doing the same). That's all. period.

Alison Dale is "known" in the transgender community AND I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HER WEBSITE IS ALL ABOUT. Can't say I agree with porn but each to his own. I happen to think she is very beautiful and our photo gallery shows us with a few people we have met on our travels. Alison Dale has never been to our club (and is never likely to now, is she ?).

When the low-life reporter from the Daily Mail came to my house he had an immediate agenda ..... our connection with Alison Dale. WE HAVE NO CONNECTION WITH ALISON DALE !

His agenda was sleaze and because he couldn't find any he kept coming back to Alison Dale - he wasn't interested in anything I had to say about Fabuliss. He was like a dog with a bone.

Yes, I am likely to be hitting out now Kirsty, I'm sorry but I am very hurt and angry about being "outed" so publicly over something that is very private to me. I don't think you have any idea what I am going through. I haven't been out of my house since Saturday (not good for someone who already is under medication for depression following a nervous breakdown a few years ago).

As for your worry over the toilets - Sue's explanation covers this above. The disabled toilets are always used until the hall is clear of other meets.

This whole thing stinks of a frame up. Someone on the comittee of the Millenium Hall is going to be very sorry. I hope they find out who this little snitch was and he is removed from HIS post.

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Barry Hope (2nd Feb 2009  20:08:02)


Just to clarify a little more from my own personal point of view. The conflict of interest as I understood it at the time of discussion related to the Mail reporter pointing out in his initial conversation with the clerk that I had a link on the Fabuliss web site to my B&B web site. This was entirely with my agreement as I have no wish to discriminate against any one person or group of people. I had checked over their web site thoroughly and considered it to be perfectly acceptable and without any risk.

It was also pointed out by the Mail Reporter that I had a link from my B&B web site pointing people to the Millennium Hall as a local venue for hiring. I also have links to many other local businesses in an attempt to promote trade and encourage people to make use of local facilities. I have nothing to gain from any of those links, I receive no payment of any sort from anyone and they are there purely for information purposes to assist my visitors. Only transvestites looking on the Fabuliss web site would follow their link to my B&B web site. I did not link back to their site. I therefore considered, and still do, that this did not create a conflict of interests, especially as I had declared the fact that we offer occasional B&B on the register of interests in the parish office which is required of me by law when I was elected to the council on 4th Dec 2008.

I would also most certainly declare a personal and prejudicial interest if an agenda item ever came up at any committee or parish council meeting that involved the Fabuliss bookings (due to the fact I offer B&B accommodation to their members).

Yes, the statement made to the Mail could have been worded differently but I guess any combination of words may not have been fully adequate in the sense that it would spell out the whole picture for the public.

There were several issues and comments made by the Mail reporter on Tuesday morning and it was felt by John Tough and myself that the statement covered as much as we could in as fewer words as possible. Anymore and we would have ended up giving the Mail more than they needed (and I am not saying that there was anything to hide).

Believe me, I am as keen as you and others are that we should be in full possession of the facts, including who was responsible, as I consider that someone needs to be brought to account for what they have done. Quite apart from all the obvious fallout that has been discussed and commented upon on this site and elsewhere, I also know that some comments and ridiculous suggestions were made by the Mail reporter about me to the clerk that must have been given to him by the instigator of this despicable action and, without saying what they were, I know these to be outright lies (I was pleased that they were never printed as I am sure they must have known they were malicious). I would be quite prepared to take whatever appropriate action was lawfully possible if I knew who made the slanderous accusations.

Lastly, I would consider that neither I nor John have made any mistake. It was very difficult under the pressure of the day to absolutely ensure that we had the formation of wording that would satisfy all aspects of the situation that was rapidly developing, bearing in mind the many faceted aspect of who and what was possibly involved. We had no way of knowing how the Mail story would develop and we were simply trying to be cautious for everyone’s sake and as I said in my earlier post we had nothing to hide as far as I and John were concerned.

Sorry to go on a bit but I think it is important that people understand the rationale behind the actions. Some of the above I had not mentioned earlier because it was personally directed at me and wasn’t necessarily PC business.

Hope this clarifies things a little more. As I also said earlier, can’t please everyone all the time but it won’t stop me trying!

Best wishes

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Barry Hope (2nd Feb 2009  20:16:35)


I am not sure whether, at the end of your last post, you meant the Liphook Millennium Centre Management Committe of which I am now Chaiman or whether you meant someone associated with the Hall in some way. I suspect you my have meant the latter.

Kind regards

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Phil McNamara (2nd Feb 2009  20:47:50)

Folks, very objectively reviewing this thread, IMHO there seem to be some tense statements appearing of late (i.e. within the last 48 hours).

Out of the interests of ALL, could I suggest that everyone carefully considers the impact airing personal and PC opinions in this manner is having, and please bear in mind that a lot of this is probably intended to be without prejudice (the legal definition, by the way) but perhaps a step back is needed by all parties? Freedom of Speech is fine, but is this (Talkback) the most sensible and concilatory way of having a discourse?

'Post' in haste, but repent at leisure ...

PS - For once, I'm being slightly serious!

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Phil McNamara (2nd Feb 2009  20:49:31)

(And now that I'm not being serious ... !).

This story is old news and getting a bit 'same-ish'.

Latest news: it snowed today.

Move on.

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Mark Bryant (2nd Feb 2009  20:55:30)

Sorry Barry (re above) - I meant somebody connected in some way.

Does it really matter though ? ..... let's run them out of town !!! (LOL).

I can't help feeling this subject is getting out of control. Obviously a lot of people on here are genuinely supportive but I think a lot of them are probably people who write a lot to the Radio Times !!?!!?!!!!!

Re: Liphook - in the paper for the wrong reasons!
- Sue W (2nd Feb 2009  20:58:31)


Do you not know when to quit?

Many have given you the decency to air your views, and allowed you to vent your anger against the Mail and the squealer, but I find it most objectionable for you to attack a concerned parent in such a way.

Discrimination of sex is illegal, now it would seem that 'pc' correctness should start applying to concerned parents that to discriminate against THEIR views should be unacceptable. Somehow you seem to have upped the anti and become very smug - not at all a good trait in any one - male or female!! Everyone has an opinion and theirs is as real to him or her as yours. You are lucky; you can be husband, father, 'girl' friend to wife and bosom buddies to every one else!

Mothers are quite simply mothers (they may be very competent people in their own right, but firstly a mother)

As far a this topic goes – yes I see no reason for you to stop using the hall, perhaps a tweak of your starting times could be looked at and future meetings should go ahead.
But you must accept that there would be objections, after all it has taken you and others years to ‘come out’, give the locals a bit of time to adjust too!!


I did not comment on your swipe at the Clerk earlier, and now Barry Hope has put the record straight I hope you offer him an apology.

I NEVER thought his statement was given to be offensive or speaking out of turn, but having seen before on here how careful they have to act, really did not think the poor guy could have said any else!! I know first hand how the press twist what you say, and present it in a different light, and the Herald is no saint in that!!. Thankfully Paul what’s-his-name is no longer the reporter, because I could tell you a few things about his angle of journalism!!

[editor - I think that everything that can be said on this subject has been covered, I will not be accepting any further posts on this thread]

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