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Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Matthew (9th Sep 2007 - 11:12:35) Is anyone of the same opinion as me, that the benches on the village green are encouraging an increasing amount of anti-social behaviour and should be removed? Last night a group of under 18's (and one of their children who was still in a push-chair!) made camp there from 9pm and proceeded to work their way through several bottles of vodka until the police eventually moved them on at 3am. The noise level and obscene language were bad enough, but the destruction, of the bottles in the roads and gardens, vandalism to the bins and joy-riding up and down a residential street in Sainsbury's trolley's is totally unacceptable. This is not the first time i have witnessed this behaviour, and I am sure it will not be the last, whilst these benches continue to encourage under 18's to congregate in a residential area like this. Do any of the local residents use these benches, or are they simply there to attract under age drinkers? I can't imagine anyone wanting to go out and sit at a table covered in obscene graffitti and sentences such as "I hate Jaz so much i'm going to stab her with her own knife." I'm probably opening myself up to accusation of being a NIMBY, but I would just like to see this area used as it should be, and be able to take my children to the green without fear of them cutting themselves on broken glass and subjecting them to the levels of noise and bad language that is all too common these days. Any suggestions/comments?

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Barry Hope (9th Sep 2007 - 20:18:40) Matthew, We also witnessed (and heard) the noise, destruction and vandalism last night from across the green. We phoned the police three times at approx 1am, 2am and 2.20am (at this stage we asked them what else we should do? go over and sort it out ourselves? On the second call we got the response that officers were too busy dealing with other issues in the area and could not attend. On the third call we intimated that a formal complaint would be made if the issues were not dealt with. One police car arrived shortly afterwards with two officers and another car arrived 5 minutes later with another two, who all spent some time talking to the youths and eventually they moved on as you say at 3pm. Why did it take three calls and 2 hrs to deal with a problem that involved vandalism and anti-social behaviour. The answer is that there is simply not enough officers available to attend the calls. On the question of the benches, we have seen many locals use them for relaxation, picnics and reading books. Not every day admittedly, but fairly often. I personally think we should keep the benches and that we should not have to back down to this behaviour. If we do this then where does the retreat stop. We might as well take it further and stay inside from 9pm every night and hand over the streets for uninterrupted vandalism and for them to annoy residents all night long. I think the answers include increasing the number of police available to answer calls from the public, authorizing preferably the police, or magistrates if necessary, to impose a curfew on the offenders to be indoors by 9pm every night for a period of time, and also to make parents responsible for their children if they break the curfew. This is certainly a topic that has to be addressed at the next Police Community Forum when it is held as it is a prime example of the reasons why local residents feel exasperated, afraid, frustrated and annoyed when they have the kind of response that we did, saying that they had no one to attend. Perhaps one of the parish council members would be kind enough to let us know when the next meeting is taking place. Best wishes Barry Hope

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Phil MN (9th Sep 2007 - 21:54:43) As you say, the M/Hall side of the Green appears to be attracting a particularly nasty type of visitor of late. This summer particularly, it has seen it's fair share of strewn rubbish, vandalism, rowdy behaviour etc. I believe the situation is becoming worse - possibly a turning point really. Some observations: 1. The design is such that it is intended as a focal point, most likely for couples / families / teenagers etc 2. Functionally the above is correct, but in practise it is being abused and this must be challenged 3. The area today was strewn with till recipts, a quick perusal yielded info such as muliple packs of Rizlas, cider, alco-pops from Tesco's in Horsham (?) of all places (dated yesterday afternoon), plus train tickets from Emsworth 4. Copious receipts from Sainsburys for - guess what - alcohol 5. I would hate the above to establish itself, as predominantly there are young children about who could put the area to better, recreational use couple with families Personally, I believe there is significant evidence of drug-taking occuring. I would suggest (personal opinion): 1. We need a 'body' of complainants 2. Seek support from our Local Councillors 3. Speak to local newspapers 4. Approach Sainsburys in the form of a complaint over the amount of Sainsbury's branded litter and suggest they may like to avoid it becoming 'negative' marketing in the local media (cc Head Office, naturally) 5. Request a visit from EHDC and local Police Officers 6. Seek support to close-off the various access points at the rear of Huron Drive (not popular and possibly controversial, but FACT- it is a contributing factor) I would be pleased to support, as it is a fine line from an ammenity to an eye-sore. It is probably best to nip this in the bud to avoid any spread, and react appropriately yet very firmly.

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - S (10th Sep 2007 - 08:19:33) On the subject of receipts from Horsham, Emsworth etc I don't know if anyone else has noticed but if you drive past the station Friday and Saturday nights around 7pm ish like I have recently you will notice streams and streams of these youngsters getting off the trains and heading for the village. In fact a couple of weeks ago when I went past it was like a scene on a match day coming off the tube in London. It seemed like hundreds of people most of which were here to frequent the pubs and hang out all trooping out of station road, I have never seen anything like it in Liphook. Why has Liphook become a focal point? There must be a reason? Are the pubs easier to get served in? I have seen lots of youngsters in and around the Anchor and 95% of them I couldn't tell for sure but would debate if they were over 18. I am sure however that the anchor asks for ID so why are they all coming here? It will pass though, it always does I hope. What is this generations taste won't be the next and some other poor village will take the brunt, but we have to look into what the attraction is. Do we have a drug problem? Do our pubs, off licences, supermarket make under age drinking easier than other towns or is Liphook just becoming fashionable? Lets hope not, but any talk of a trendy wine bar, more drinking establishments and restaurants being opened in Liphook will only make it worse.

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Phil MN (10th Sep 2007 - 10:43:25) 'Do we have a drug problem?' Sadly, yes - it would indeed be foolish to think otherwise. It was obvious from the paraphenalia on the Green Sunday morning that drug use was involved. For me personally, this is the most disturbing aspect of the recent anti-social behaviour. I look forward to hearing of the next Parish Council meeting - have checked their website, it looks like 3rd Monday in September or thereabouts. It would be useful to organise a contingent to attend, perhaps? Regards, PMN

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Matthew (10th Sep 2007 - 11:52:44) Representation at the Parish Council meeting would be a good step forward. I would also be interested to discuss things with the local Police, and understand their thoughts on this, and any actions they are likely to be taking as a consequence of Saturday nights events. Are their regular meetings with the Police in the Millenium Hall, or should I approach them directly? Thanks for your advice and comments.

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Susie (10th Sep 2007 - 16:36:32) We had the same problem last summer with kids hanging around the library drinking fighting and taking drugs. I called the police over 50 times over the course of the summer and the police did come out although be it hours later. The kids were digging up the brick patio and then writting with the bricks 'liphook boiz', with the bricks that they didn't need they threw them over the fence on to the waiting cars the other side. The police could do nothing to stop them. We went to see the police at the Millenium Hall at the beginning of this summer to make sure they were aware of the problem - and so far, touch wood, we have had no problems. The Community Officer we spoke to said the reason for Liphooks increasing problems are because neighbouring villages and towns have put a curfew of 9pm for all people under 18 and they are not allowed to hang around in groups of more than 2. So because they can't hang around in big groups with all their mates they come to Liphook where the won't be interrupted! I think Liphook needs to introduce the same principle! There has also been a new warning system, whereby if you are caught being anti-social you are issued with some kind of warning and all your details are taken down, if you get issued 3 of these warnings then you are automatically given an ASBO and banned from the local area. Maybe this is something to put to the police about introducing here....

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Barry Hope (10th Sep 2007 - 19:02:08) Hi Matthew The next Parish Council meeting is Monday September 24th at the Parish Office in Midhurst Road. It starts at 8pm and they have a public question time for members of the public to ask the council questions about local issues. One councillor, Peter Wilson, is the chairman of the Police forum that is held at the Millennium Centre, I will find out the date of their next meeting and let you know. The police are aware of this type of problem but the simple fact is that they haven't got enough officers to respond immediately all the time (central government are to blame for this) . They have suggested a Neighborhood Watch Scheme but at the last meeting they did not have a coordinator. I think this is something that we should all sign up to, especially around the green area so that incidents are reported regularly. Perhaps if we have enough residents interested in having a meeting to talk about this we can agree some form of action between us that might help to address the problem when it happens. If there are enough of us acting together we may be able to have some impact on the council and ensre the police take the problem seriously. Regards Barry

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - sue (10th Sep 2007 - 19:25:07) Sadly, this incorporates other threads that have been discussed. It wasn't until Friday that I too discovered kids were comming here from 'Leigh Park' with the intention to cause trouble. It does seem that these 'dispersion' orders work - that is why they come here. Just as in the case of Nikki's boyfriend, they move to where they have freedom. About 3 mths ago, we had the community officer together with a PC giving out leaflets on Neighbourhood Watch, which people were requested to fill in and return, if a reasonable response was received they would set it up, together with a person who had already agreed to be a local co-ordinator (station Road area). On seeing this person about 2 wks ago, asked how was it going. Basically nothing, as either no or very few people had expressed interest in such a scheme. So all I can gather is people are not particularly bothered, but it is refreshing that there are a few who have posted here, who are concerned enough to try - Well done!!

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Barry Hope (10th Sep 2007 - 22:38:21) Just for informatin. The Police community forum hasn't been arranged just yet since the last one was held. It was supposed to be in August but didn't happen. I have spoken to the chairman of that forum and he will let me know as soon as it is organised. I also updated him on the current events and also the strength of feeling amongst the local community. Once I know the date I will post it here. Best wishes Barry

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Eneida (11th Sep 2007 - 09:17:45) Following on from Sue's post...is there a Neighbourhood Watch Scheme for the Headley Road? If so, I'd be interested in joining!! I've been a member of them in the past and they're very useful IMO. Eneida

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - S (11th Sep 2007 - 09:53:39) Have I missed something here? Curfews in neighbouring villages and towns? Why can't we get this setup in Liphook? If it could be setup properly and patrolled accordingly by the police I bet it would resolve a high percentage of the problems.

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - nikki (11th Sep 2007 - 10:11:55) I believe some surrounding villages and towns have a section 30 in place. This is a useful site www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/...

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Matthew (11th Sep 2007 - 10:45:46) Thanks all for your responses - there is a lot of information which I was not aware of! If the police have deemed other villages worthy of a curfew, why should Liphook suffer because of this? It seems to me that the village is being turned into an attraction for the local trouble-makers in the area, and that local residents are suffering, not just in the green area, but all over the village. Which surrounding towns/villages are we talking about with curfew's in place by the way, and what happened there for the curfew's to be put in place? It would be useful to know some background if anybody has any?

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - nikki (11th Sep 2007 - 11:48:42) Hi Matthew, I believe,as another post has stated,that we cannot blame just the locals. Because some other villages have dispersal orders in place and Liphook hasn't, then unfortunately for us right now, they can easily hop on a bus or train and "hang out" here. I am only too aware of the downfalls of the section 30, as my boyfriend was assualted whilst on holiday in the west country,the youths who carried out the assualt were not local to our resort but from the adjoining town where a section 30 has been granted. I shall have a look into what criteria is needed for the police to stamp a village with a section 30 dispersal order, maybe it goes on crime figures or complaints from local residents?

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - nikki (11th Sep 2007 - 11:58:55) www.askthe.police.uk/... www.lys.org.uk/people_to_talk_to/... a couple more good links the latter isn't applicable to Hants but does explain between whom a section 30 is agreed.

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - nikki (11th Sep 2007 - 13:05:13) On a Wednesday evening,the community police surgery is open from 5pm to 8pm. The beat office is attached to the Millennium Hall.

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Matthew (11th Sep 2007 - 13:59:08) Thanks for your time Nikki - some very useful information. It seems to me that as residents we need to ensure we document any anti-social behaviour from now on, and each time we witness it we need to call the 101 or worst case 999 services to notify the police. This should help to build a case for potentially putting in a section 30 dispersal order. What are people's feelings about this type of order? It concerns me that this sort of thing should be necessary, but if it puts off trouble makers from elsewhere coming in and spoiling the village, then I can't see why it would be a problem? Has anyone on the board got children under 16 who this would affect (who don't mis-behave!)? What impact would this have on how they live their lives?

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - jo (11th Sep 2007 - 16:57:32) It is a shame that we have to resort to getting curfew orders etc but if it has to be done then so be it. I have 3 children a daughter 16, another daughter 12 and and a son 3. I don't allow my kids out on a school night. My 16 yr old who has just started college works all day sat and sun and bank holidays to support her travelling to and from Portsmouth. I have never allowed her to stay out late except for special occasions and at 16 she has to be in at 10.30. With all the studying and working she is far too tired to stay out late anyway. I know being a parent isn't easy but do the parents of these youths know where they are and what they are doing? It is difficult to control teenagers especially if drink and/or drugs are involved but we as parents should be responsible for our offspring no matter what they do. Education, respect and discipline is what is needed. How you would achieve this I really don't know. What is the answer? I just feel lucky and proud that my children are the way they are.

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Eneida (11th Sep 2007 - 17:26:46) In the Section 30 and the website mentioned in Nikki's post it says that dispersal orders are applied to 'designated areas'. So if one was put in place here, would it apply to the whole of Liphook or just The Green (for example). Otherwise the problem would just be moved from one place to another. Eneida

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - nikki (11th Sep 2007 - 19:14:30) For firm answers, I believe it would be a good idea for allconcerned residents to go along to the police surgery as mentioned in my previous post. You will have the opportunity to meet our PSCO Peter Tedder and Alan Read our PC. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to answer any questions you have relating to dispersal orders.

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Barry Hope (11th Sep 2007 - 22:10:46) Hi all, I have spoken again to Pete Wilson who chairs the police forum. He has informed me that parish councillors have visited the police office at the Millennium Centre today to discuss the problems and talk about the way forward. Whilst we wait for that to happen, I think it would be useful for any interested village green residents to meet and to discuss any options, views and suggestions so that we can have a cohesive point of view and decide on some sensible solutions to these problems. These can then be passed to both the police and the parish council and therefore add more weight to our concerns. If any one is interested and is willing to meet I am quite happy to facilitate a meeting at my house (situated on the green perimeter) at a date and time as agreed. I would be very interested in any responses in order to judge the level of interest. If there are enough people willing to take part I will make arrangements to get my contact details to you, maybe through the editor if he agrees to assist (veiled request there Ed ??) Look forward to replies with interest. Best wishes Barry

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Barry Hope (11th Sep 2007 - 22:25:19) Whilst waiting for response to my suggestion of a meeting I just remembered a similar situation happening in Polzeath in North Cornwall. The local youths there were joined by many of the same age on holidays who gathered on the beach for parties, drinking and drug taking. The problem became so big and, like Liphook, did not have enough officers to deal with it that the local traders and residents all got together and chipped in a little each month to pay for their own police officer. Bit like sponsor a copper I suppose, but it increased the presence along the beach at night and they did cut the nuisance down and it had an impact. Just a thought for consideration, although it hardly seems right that after paying all the taxes that we do that we would have to pay more to get what should be standard service. Barry

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Matthew (12th Sep 2007 - 09:12:40) I would definitely be interested to meet up and discuss this with people. If you can let me have a few days notice or do this on a weekend it would be good as I work in London. Unfortunately I can't attend the Police forum this evening due to work commitments in town, but will endeavour to get there next week. I look forward to hearing from you re dates and times.

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - nikki (12th Sep 2007 - 09:55:14) Barry, I personally think that we should be working with the police on this 1. Have you met our psco or our designated pc yet? I would advise to pop into the beat surgery and have a chat with them. Then you can suggest your meeting to them, and invite them along. I know that our new pcso is very pro active. At the end of the day, we all want a satisfactory outcome to this problem and you need to actually find out what the police are doing about it, however you can only do that by talking to them, a pcso is exactly that..a police support COMMUNITY officer..working with them and other authorities will surely aid the plight to keep liphook a safe and trouble free place to live.

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Mike Grimes (12th Sep 2007 - 12:57:45) Barry, If you check your latest Council Tax demand I think you will see that we already "chip in a little each month" to supposedly "sponsor a copper". I think it is outrageous that you can regularly request support from the police "service" (it used to be a force) and be told that they are too busy. I don't get the option to say I'm too busy to pay the rates. Mike

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Barry Hope (12th Sep 2007 - 18:17:52) Matthew We are away this weekend but I will work out a suitable time and date, probably a weekend as you suggest. I will let you have contact details later. Nikki, I am fully aware of what a PCSO is; I had contact with them as a parish councillor and also as chairman of the police liaison forum before I came off the council. I do intend at some point to talk to them but the meeting I am suggesting is primarily for residents to discuss some sensible solutions and ways that we can help prevent these things happening in a uniform and cohesive fashion. Addressing the problems as a group is always much more effective than going it alone. This may include the idea of a residents association that will be able to speak with one voice for local residents around the green area on all sorts of issues (not just anti-social behaviour), as well as taking a more active part between us in a neighbourhood watch scheme. It goes without saying that this would include input from the police as appropriate and necessary. Mike, I agree, we all pay towards services we are supposed to receive but the evidence of late seems to prove that this is woefully inadequate. I didn't really think the idea was a starter for Liphook as Polzeath contributors were mainly local trade’s people with shops along the frontage of the beach (we are a little short of both here I think). Maybe when the council(s) agrees a development on the remaining OSU parcel of land (probably in 2017) some contributions might be asked of them to pay for extra policing to bring coverage to "normal" and acceptable standards for us. Best wishes Barry

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Jo T (12th Sep 2007 - 18:23:40) I also live on the green perimeter and had a prime view of Saturday nights antics. Today my neighbour and I visited the Parish Council offices to show them photographic evidence taken on Sunday morning and add more weight to the voice of complaint. Interestingly they had only had one call about Saturday night and were completely unaware of the defacement of the table and benches? I think the problem is no-one really knows the procedure and contacts for raising these issues coupled with the fact that the majority of the residents commute into London and have general family life to deal with. I would not confess to making any startling breakthroughs but the upshot is that we need to work together to nip this in the bud. This is now ultimately a police issue and the police need evidence to work on to tackle the culprits so it is suggested that we document all antisocial events, calls to police, visual descriptions, any physical evidence (ie receipts that can be traced back to shops), names you overhear even nicknames etc. Not rocket science but in light of Saturday something we all need to make more of an effort to do. There is 101 for small matters to report but if in any doubt just call 999. The council on their part have agreed to maintain the asthetics of the area. They have made an attempt today to obliterate the graffitti on the table - but it is nowhere near good enough and we have reported that back to them. So the upshot of this long rambling post is to be vigilant, report, report, report and work together as a group to turn the green back into a family site and make it as difficult as possible for others to misuse it. thanks Jo

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Barry Hope (12th Sep 2007 - 20:08:18) Hi all I have just had a lengthy talk with our PCSO Pete Tedder. He was over at the beat office tonight waiting to see anyone who wanted to discuss their concerns over recent events. It seems no one turned up so he decided to take to the streets instead and visit the residents around the green in person. We had a very interesting and positive discussion about the police response to the recent events and it would appear that they are doing as much as they can to be proactive in preventing future occurrences. He has changed his duty times so he is around until 12:00 midnight most nights and they are putting a priority on the areas around the green and into the estate towards Huron Drive as this is a through route to other areas, to ensure that their presence is known. He is very willing and keen to be involved in any local meetings and will do whatever he can to assist. We talked at length about the need for everyone to work as a team to include the council, police, residents, Sainsbury’s etc so that any event, no matter how small, is reported. It may just be that one incident is connected to another and any information that we can supply would be very useful in dealing with the problem and catching the perpetrators. I also discussed the idea of a residents association and more of us taking a more active role in a neighbourhood watch scheme. This is something that they are keen to promote and support and Alan Read (the local PC) will be keen to hear from anyone with regards setting this up. Perhaps if enough of us can meet up we can decide on the way forward with the support of the police. No doubt there will be more to add and I would still be interested in knowing if more residents would like to get together for an informal chat about what we can do together as a community. Regards Barry

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Steve Read (12th Sep 2007 - 21:59:26) So here we go again on the "lets arrange a meeting to discuss" merry go round. You do not need to arrange any meeting to understand the common underlying problem. There is not enough Police presence around the town. As Mike stated we pay more than enough for a useless service as it is without chipping in to sponsor an extra copper. With the silly season nearly upon us I bet though there will be enough of a Police presence around pulling us over for a defective rear light. As for the proposed idea of banning groups of more than two "children" after 9pm, what a joke and insult to the majority of responsible youths in Liphook and yet again hitting the majority for the sake of a minority. With this in mind Barry remember when we had a Youth Forum, you must remember there were at least five of us who attended. The "children" who did attend and spoke on behalf of the Youth from Liphook and told us what they would like, struck me as a mature and sensible group. Yet if, and its a big IF anything ever happens for them, what will they have to do, leave before 9pm to get home and indoors before the Police start rounding them up. Before anyone starts bleating about "my little Johnny is tucked up in bed by 7.30" these were 14, 15 & 16 year olds trying to put forward their ideas for something for the Youth to have for themselves. Mind you if most of you moaning on here had bothered to attend one of your beloved meetings you would have seen that for yourselves. This sadly goes with most things in Liphook, everybody loves to have meetings and talk about it, moan about it, pontificate about it. But when it comes down to the sharp end of the stick, you watch everybody dive for cover. After 49 years here nothing changes. In closing just have a look around the various benches placed around Liphook during the daytime, you will see the same individuals sitting in the same seats with their cans of beer etc holding court and as I know most of them I can assure you all they are well over 16, maybe the self styled vigilante's on here with their cameras can snap a picture and pop over to the PC office with that as well.

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - nikki (13th Sep 2007 - 09:32:56) I think it is unfair to say we have a useless service. As with most villages, police resources are stretched. We are not the only village with these problems, it is nationwide ... look at what happened on our holiday in Devon, the village of Westward Ho doesn't even have a beat office. The nearest police station is in the neighbouring town. I'm yet to hear of a major incident or crime in or close to Liphook, where the police didn't attend or had difficulty attending. It would be an ideal world if the police could attend situations that arise in Liphook, as they happen, (like the one on the village green). The situation on the village green, of course, did not affect everyone in Liphook but it is relevant to those living close by, who heard & saw it and they have the right to air their concerns & to pro actively do something about it. If we all sat back and let these incidents continue, without making it known that we won't put up with it, then surely this would just send out the wrong message to perspective trouble makers & the problems would escalate into far worse behaviour/crime. We can't change the way todays society is going down the pan, but we have the right to exercise our powers as residents & business' to help our little society(liphook) ... to stay relatively safe and trouble free. If that comes in the form of a residents association, neighbourhood watch or the odd meeting here and there then so be it.

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Matthew (13th Sep 2007 - 09:53:20) Steve, Many thanks for your feedback. My original posting was to ask for people's opinions on this issue. You are obviously a regular poster on this board, evident from the strong opinions you have on historical issues. This is my first posting on something I felt strongly about, so please don't try and patronise me by calling me a self-styled vigilante who won't follow through on things. I was encouraged when I started to read your post, as I completely agree with your main point here, that there is not enough of a police presence in Liphook. If there were more local police, groups of under 18's who were gathered together late in the evening, causing trouble, drinking and taking drugs would be dispersed without the need to impose the same curfew that evidently exists in villages in the surrounding area. Perhaps if this type of curfew was trialled (with a 10.30pm/11pm limit, as I agree that 9pm is probably too early) , it would actually mean that we would get more police in the area to enforce it, which is what you feel is the solution to the problem? I also feel that you make a valid point about the trouble-makers being the minority of the youths in Liphook. My concern is that the village seems to be attracting the minority of trouble-makers from all the surrounding villages as well. Surely the local youths that attended your youth forum would prefer to be able to walk past places like the village green, without being verbally abused and intimidated by groups of drunk yobs from other villages? I am going to pursue this Steve, and have already met with the local council and police, as have a number of other residents. In my experience it is not worth starting something if you are not going to follow it through. On that subject, how is your youth group going? I have young children under 6, but when they are old enough its good to know that groups like this exist in the local area. Finally, I don't want to see the benches in and around Liphook removed. I want to see them used by the community as they were intended, not for underage drinking, and drug-taking. I am pleased that you and your friends are able to take advantage of them during the day - thats a side to the village I don't get to see apart from at weekends, as I work long hours. Thanks for your post. Best wishes, Matthew

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - S (13th Sep 2007 - 09:53:53) What a suprise, a thread that was supposed to be about a yob culture problem in Liphook as a whole has been partially hijacked by the one development that is partly responsible for the whole damn problem. The Sainsburys one. I take it that the commuters who moved there to be in the country are now getting upset that yoofs are destroying the only bit of green they have seen for years? So what about other incidents in the village? The rec, outside the Anchor, the railway station or is the green outside the millennium hall the only place in Liphook.

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - S (13th Sep 2007 - 10:10:57) OOpss ignore that. Thre thread was started about the benches on the green. Although I stand by the rest of it.

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Jo T (13th Sep 2007 - 10:23:57) S, Another 'helpful' comment! Firstly, I would like to apologise again for moving to Liphook and the shock horror 'New houses' - yes my husband commutes into London but I can assure you this is not the first bit of green we have seen in years! I originate from Dorset and my husband from nearby Chichester not the East End of London. We are NOT just referring to the green but the problem in the whole of Liphook, it just happened that the thread escalated from Saturday nights events which could have originated elsewhere in Liphook. We are keenly aware of other trouble hotspots as my husband walks home from the station every night sometimes, gasp, after 9pm. When the sainsbury's forcefield allows us through we have been known to frequent the pubs after dark (babysitters willing) and have seen 'yoofs' (thanks JSP) misbehaving elsewhere. Why are we all attacking each other??? Jo - sorry I have only lived in Liphook for 3 years and hope to earn my write to comment at some point x

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Matthew (13th Sep 2007 - 10:29:03) S, Sorry, who's said this was just about the green? This is being used as an example following an incident at the weekend. I agree that the problems are occuring all over the area, and that they need to be sorted out. Anyway, I don't want this thread turning into all the other long threads here, going off at a tangent about the damage caused by Sainsbury's, so please can we stick to the point? It's a shame you can't come back with some constructive advice/opinions, without resorting to getting back on your "anti-anyone that hasn't lived in Liphook all their life campaign!"

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - nikki (13th Sep 2007 - 10:36:14) Barry, I apologise if my post about the pcso came across the wrong way. I was trying to highlight "community support officer", in the way that this is exactly the kind of issue Mr Tedder is there for ..a police resource that IS available and willing to help. I wasn't spelling it out for you, I was trying to explain that we do have this resource and should make the most of it. So apologies again if it came across the wrong way, as with the joy of forums, black & white text has no tone of voice! I am, of course, aware of your previous standing in the community.

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - nikki (13th Sep 2007 - 10:57:38) Matthew, Barry & Jo - Do keep us up to speed with any developments regarding your proposed meeting. Jo, I helped recently campaign to save a small play area in Passfield, I debated whether I should go ahead with this as I'd only lived in Passfield for a little less than a year at the time. I didn't want to appear to be treading on anyone's toes. But I ploughed on regardless and came up against criticism from people who didn't live in the vicinity. I posted a blog on this site keeping everyone affected ,up to date with developments. However, much like most threads, people will air their opinions, some a little harsh ...but don't lose sight of what you are passionate about. Whether you have lived here a lifetime or a week is irrelevant. You have the right to act on your grievances & indeed to post on here, as much as the next person.

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Barbara Easton (13th Sep 2007 - 15:01:01) I have put the matter of this anti social behaviour on the next PC full meeting which is on 24th September at 8 PM I would like members of the public to be there and any one with any ideas, eg CCTV would be welcome !

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Barry Hope (13th Sep 2007 - 19:00:30) Nikki, Apology accepted, no problem, as you say difficult to say something in b&w without the possibility of misinterpretation. Of course we will keep you up to date as we will all interested and positive parties. S Please do not go down the old route of the big bad Sainsbury’s. Let’s stick to the issue and remain constructive. By the way, we have lived in Liphook for 18 years; does that qualify us for acceptance? Steve, I know what you mean about youth forums and was there when the youngsters had their say, they were very positive and had some valuable comments. As far as I remember EHDC were going to pick this up and run with it, not sure what has happened yet although I will try and find out. As for meetings, I think Matthew is spot on, if the residents of any area have a desire to get together to organise positive and useful actions surely they should not be criticised for trying. As Matthew says, we will see this through and if we can achieve something then it will be worth trying. You can't organise a residents association or coordinate a neighbourhood watch scheme without discussions and agreement amongst those concerned. One last point, it would be very nice to see people remain sensible, positive and constructive and not start sniping at each other as on other posts. You can always see when a posting has outlived its usefulness when things get silly and personal. Matthew, keep up the spirit and we will meet soon. Best wishes Barry

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Steve Read (13th Sep 2007 - 20:35:39) Matthew, In reply to your letter let me just correct you on one very important point, although I stated that the daytime individuals using the benches are known to me they are not what I would call friends of mine, my point being that its not only the youth using these benches. I like a great many others on here are rushing around working to pay for these people sitting there drinking their bevvies all day. I wish you success with your venture and admire anybody prepared to take time out and organise something that will benefit everybody. However having had first hand experience of sticking ones head above the parapet on numerous projects around Liphook, know from bitter experience how difficult it is. Apathy tends to set in once you get down to the mechanics of the thing, this sadly is something Liphook is rather very good at. Nothing will convince me that the Police around here offer a remotely good service and I believe will not change or benefit anybody until we get more officers on the beat especially at weekends, and by that I mean on the beat and not riding around in nice warm cars. Remember we are now dealing with a culture where ASBO's are collected and worn with pride to see who can obtain the most and worst. Answer, don't know, well I do, but no doubt that would get shot to pieces by the bleeding heart brigade. On the issues of the youth forum, without wishing to change threads, how far has it progressed? Nowhere! Mr. Newman elected in a blaze of publicity organised this, laying out his stall with a vision for the youth. Attendance, three members of the public, two youth workers, Barry and four youngsters speaking on behalf of the youth of Liphook. Progress and implementation of any ideas put forth, nothing. When asked for an update months ago, nothing. Any word from Mr. Newman, nothing, in fact any feedback from the PC, nothing. Does all this sound familiar. With the exception of Barry and Barbara I think everybody else has legged it. Its a shame but I'am not surprised in the least, hope you do better with your issue and please prove me wrong. Regards, Steve. ps. Just remembered we had some vehicles broken into last weekend, tools etc stolen. Police reaction, do you need me to answer that!

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Freddie Dawkins (13th Sep 2007 - 21:20:08) Just for info: Hampshire Police have specially equipped CCTV vans, which act as a great deterrent and evidence gatherers when they are deployed. The station forecourt might be a good starting point - as the troublemakers from other areas usually arrive by train - and leave the same way. Local officers will also be able to arrange temporary CCTV coverage of trouble spots. When you meet up with the local beat officer and PCSO, ask them about availability. One of the problems about response times was debated here a long time ago, when the central Hampshire area was completely reorganised by the powers-that-be in Winchester. Even when they are not busy, officers often have to drive from Alton or Basingstoke - giving plenty of time for the troublemakers to disappear. With the growth of population in Liphook, it can't be too long before a more consistent police presence will be reconsidered by HQ - but at the same time, Liphook does have a very low crime history.

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Finchie (13th Sep 2007 - 23:35:49) But the great news there is much police activity during the day, at the wrong time, targeting the wrong people. I know of a group of young kids (12) having harmless fun, playing by the river this summer, middle of the day, all served with some kind of barmy ASBO warning letter. So there is "resources" out there, just targeting completely the wrong people at completely the wrong time. Mind you, I guess a 12 year old is an easy target, much easier than sorting out a drunken rabble. Enjoyed the article in the paper today pointing out that a policeman could have to fill out up to 33 forms for one incident. At least it keeps them of the street doing a proper job. Cheers, Finchie

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - nikki (14th Sep 2007 - 09:18:04) Hi Steve, I live on a road in Passfield where 5 vehicles were broken into, during the early hours of Sunday morning. These thefts came to light when a neighbour realised his van had been broken into, when he woke up. The police were called and were here within a satisfactory amount of time. They spent the morning finger printing the affected vehicles and speaking to everyone who lives on this street. As a follow up to these crimes, our psco, visited our area on Tuesday, knocking on peoples doors, leaflet dropping and advising people on how to make their vehicles and homes safe. So,I have to disagree with your comments on the police doing nothing in response to the break ins.

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Barbara Easton (14th Sep 2007 - 10:18:39) I have raised this as a question for discussion by the Parish Council at the full council meeting on Monday 24th of September

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Matthew (14th Sep 2007 - 15:30:26) Barbara, Thanks for your input. I look forward to seeing everyone on the 24th. Matthew

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Steve Read (14th Sep 2007 - 15:31:11) Hi Nikki, Took your point about the police coming out. The same people who done near you early last Sunday morning are obviously the same who paid us all a visit on the same night. Now we are not that far from you, about a mile and a bit. Response to us, nothing. So because they came out to your incident you are obviously happy with their response, we are not. How we relate to a service that we all pay for is the response and level of service we get in return, in this case and I could quote endless incidents, it was non existent. Regards, Steve

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Phil MN (19th Sep 2007 - 14:35:04) Goodness! One of the most entertaining aspects of any internet-based chat forum is the number of people who are willing to demonstrate polar opinion and bravado from behind a keyboard. Given that genuine, concerned residents wish to respond to anti-social behaviour in a positive, engaged manner, I can see no excuse for likes of 'Steve' (who I do not know, and have never met) to pour scorn on the matter and assaile members of the community from the safety of a computer. Shame on you. Barry / Jo / Nikki / Matthew - I would be pleased to participate in any way feasible, including attendance at meetings etc. Please feel free to contact me at any time to confirm or to elicit support. This matter affects all of Liphook, and therefore a Liphood-wide response is required. Finally, I moved to Liphook about 18 months ago. If it wasn't for new-blood moving into areas they would stagnate. And thanks to the likes of 'us' commuters moving in, the likes of Steve can now enjoy more equity in their own properties. But I don't expect to be thanked, but by the same token I would like to think that I would demonstrate tolerance and understanding of my local community rather than berate it for attempting to maturely tackle anti-social behaviour. Perhaps if you are considering posting to this thread and can't make a sensible, positive contribution, you might leave those of us who can to get on with it. Where is the Moderator, by the way?

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Barry Hope (22nd Sep 2007 - 09:10:11) Hi All You might be interested to know that there was a group of about 30 youngsters on the green again last night from about 8 - 10pm drinking, shouting and swearing. They were making the usual trip to and from Sainsbury's for their supplies. We did phone 101 and were put on hold for 20 minutes with no one answering, eventually gave up. We then phoned the 0845 number that PCSO Tedder gave to us and got straight through to a human being who was able to tell me that it had already been reported and officers were on their way. Shortly afterwards police did arrive and dispersed the group. They stayed around the area carrying out checks for quite some time until they were happy that the group had caught there trains or busses to go back to wherever they came from. All in all the response was much better than the other week and they made sure the area was clear by 10:00pm. I think it shows that public opinion and comment counts and does have results. Let’s hope the groups that turn up in future get the message. Best wishes Barry

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Barry Hope (23rd Sep 2007 - 23:00:14) Matthew and Jo, don't forget that the Parish Council meeting is on Monday evening at 8.00pm. It is also worth knowing that you, and anyone else, could also raise any questions at the EHDC community forums that are held around the area. Councillor Sam James who is Deputy Leader of EHDC is on that committee and he is also a County Councillor at Winchester. In addition, Councillor Mrs Anna James is also a Bramshott and Liphook Parish Councillor as well as a District Councillor. So, in effect you have the ears of representatives on all three Local Authorities on any issues that are relating to your area. I attend regularly and generally ask questions of interest and concern. I will also be attending the Parish Council Meeting if I can get there in time. See you there. Regards Barry

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Matthew (24th Sep 2007 - 09:16:47) Barry, Thanks for the reminder. I have your details now, so will drop you a line at some point this morning. I will be attending the meeting this evening, trains and work permitting. Best wishes, Matthew

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Phil MN (24th Sep 2007 - 09:44:07) Greetings. I shall also attend the Parish Council meeting this evenig, transport permitting. Also, I will be attending the Police Forum on Thursday at 8pm. I wonder whether by creating a fuss about anti-social behaviour we are playing into the hands of the offenders? I would imagine they would get a kick out of knowing how bothered we all are, plus getting moved on by the Police each Saturday could become a sport if we are not careful. LipHOOD indeed. Hopefully the Police Forum on Thursday can advise the best method of handling. Regards, PMN

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - liz (24th Sep 2007 - 11:33:24) On Saturday I had to negotiate my way out of Sainsbury's past some yoofs swigging beer out of bottles. Although they were outside the glass doors (just) they were still well within Sainsbury's covered entranceway. Also, people (not just youngsters) sit drinking beer on the benches on the Midhurst Road side of Sainsburys for a good part of the day. I would be interested to know what counts as 'on' or 'off' Sainsbury's premises as far as the licencing of alcohol sales is concerned.

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Mike Grimes (24th Sep 2007 - 12:13:34) I think the fact that they can wander across the road and pick up a '20 pack' of strong lager for £7.49 until 10:00pm is the single most important reason they are there. It's so convenient. The press is reporting that the many think liberalisation of the licencing laws for pubs as the main culprit. I don't think so. Having said that, I hope I am not stopped from buying a 20 pack for £7.49 as a result. But I should pass for over 21 should "S" raise the age to whom they sold alchohol.

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Freddie Dawkins (24th Sep 2007 - 15:00:08) It's quite easy to stop drinkling in public - most city centres and especially seaside resorts - now have drinking control areas. These are imposed by the local authority, in conjunction with the police. It would stop all alcohol consumption in public areas around the village. I'm surprised Sainsbury's has never taken action against the regulars who sit on the benches in the Midhurst Road space.

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Steve Read (21st Mar 2008 - 22:22:26) Anybody got any updates on this thread, or do I already know the answer?

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Jo (23rd Mar 2008 - 17:18:44) Yes Steve - there is now a dispersal order in place for Midhurst Rd, Ottowa Drive and Ontario Way. I also had the unpleasant task of taking someone to court as a result of a 101 call I made regarding an anti-social incident on the green. My husband initiated this post and as we discussed we are here to see these things through. Hope we have not shattered your illusions!

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - liz (25th Mar 2008 - 10:08:30) I appologise if this has already been covered but I haven't read all of the thread and it goes on a bit and goes off track in places. About 13 -14 years ago there were problems with the little (and not so little) horrors hanging about in the middle of Liphook. In those days Alldays convenience store seemed the attraction (presumably because it sold alcohol) as there was no Sainsburys. After a barrage of complaints the police finally had a crackdown and the village was heavily policed for several weekends running. Police came in by the vanload (literally). It worked. The centre of the village was then relatively quiet for several years - but now we have a new crowd. Why can't the police take the same action once again?

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Editor (27th Mar 2008 - 16:27:17) I just received information about an interesting web site which covers all areas of anti-social behaviour. Check it out at www.problemneighbours.co.uk I've also added it to our 'website links' page, so you can find it again !

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Phil (21st Apr 2008 - 18:02:06) Well done to certain people on this post who made the very excellent effort of standing up for us all, and seeing matters through court etc .. ! The little blighters deserve to be held to task, and thank god there are people out there who are willing to stand up and be counted. Well done you two! Kind regards, PMN

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Chris (21st Apr 2008 - 19:07:25) ...what actually happened to conclude the issue?

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Mike Grimes (22nd Apr 2008 - 01:09:50) Winter.

Re: Benches on the green encouraging Anti-Social Behaviour - Barry Hope (22nd Apr 2008 - 13:56:16) Hi Now that winter is leaving us and the lighter nights are coming I thought it would be useful to let you know that I have already started the process for a neighbourhood watch scheme around the green and the estate. However, due to ill health I am unable to give it my full attention at the moment. I have had a discussion with PCSO Pete Tedder and he said he would see if there was anyone who could run with this for the time being until I can put more time to it. So if there is someone in the area that can take the lead or would be willing to work with me on this please let me know. In the meantime don't forget that the 101 call number can still be used to report anything, even though it may appear to be insignificant. All information is useful and it may just tie up with other events and help the police to resolve issues. Best wishes Barry

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