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Rumour (out of) Control - Moley Smoke (22nd May 2007 - 13:09:06) Well, well, well, what a lot of rumours of this, that and the other you have in Liphook! From my bunker in deepest Penns Place, let me throw a few pebbles into the pond. How's this for a juicy one to start with? Is it true that Sainsburys are facing a "closure action" due to planning irregularities? And what about the issue concerning incorrect "sell-by-date" labelling? Regarding Station Road, it's practically certain apparently, that the old trading estate behind it will be demolished for houses, the road itself pedestrianised and planning will have an emphasis on more eateries and a wine bar. Exciting or what?! And to complete the "leisurely Liphook look", are the plans for a Nightclub/Casino in a "central location" any further forward? So many rumours - and more to come, probably! The Mole [editor - not sure how many pinches of salt should be taken with this !]

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - liz (22nd May 2007 - 14:23:00) You forgot the one about the incineration plant .....

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Candyfloss (22nd May 2007 - 18:30:34) Holy Smoke (ha) Many a true word is spoken in jest!!. Not the first time SOME of your proposals have been uttered.

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Rhys G (22nd May 2007 - 20:15:58) I'm not too sure about the above rumours, but did read on the BBC News site today about an investigation into Sainsbury's and Tesco stores changing sell by dates on products from the counters. There was no suggestion this is happening in Liphook Sainsbury's though.

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Sue W (23rd May 2007 - 09:17:37) Moley If you are that dug into Penns Place - you would know that Sainsbury's are in breach of planning - for one they are NOT permitted to sell HOT food!! So why do they have a 'HOT FOOD' cabinet by the sarnies. And actually used it as a selling point on Delta Radio.

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Barbara (23rd May 2007 - 11:27:09) I agree there must be more to life than Sainsburys. I was caught short there recently and was appalled that now the only customer lavatories are two disabled ones. Did they run out of cash? I do not know how with all their profit?

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - phil (23rd May 2007 - 12:49:30) sue, are you part of the supermarket police? seems like you know alot about not very much. sour grapes by any chance? phil

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Stephen (23rd May 2007 - 14:07:53) I overheard someone say that their brother who is a cleaner at South West Trains head office knew of a secret plan to remove all the seats and lavatories in standard class so that passengers would be forced to buy a first class ticket. The station car park will be sold to Sainsburys for overflow parking and the station building turned into a 24 hour burger bar.

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Steve Read (23rd May 2007 - 15:19:38) Message for The Mole. There are quiet a few of us who would like to throw a few pebbles intermingled with the odd rock at Penns Place let alone a pond. I see by your post time you were obviously hard at it tucked away in your bunker. Never mind your index linked pension is safe, its good to see the worker bees within the system beavering away for the benefit of all. Look forward to our next issue of Partners.

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Mike Grimes (23rd May 2007 - 19:36:42) There WAS a plan to remove WCs from the SWT trains to make room for more seats. Unless the decision has been reversed, expect to see that one come tue.

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Sue W (23rd May 2007 - 20:02:05) Phil Why is stating facts - sour grapes??? Sue

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - phil (23rd May 2007 - 21:17:18) sue, do you really think that a large national company such as Sainsburys would make such a foolish error? i think the fact that you have lost business due to sainsburys has given you the sour grapes i spoke about before. and as i have mentioned previosuly if you concentrated more on saving your own business rather than worrying about sainsburys you wouldn't need to have the closing down signs in your shop window. phil

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Dave L (23rd May 2007 - 22:39:48) Phil Please re-enter the real world the reason Sainsburys can ride rough-shod over planning controls, small businesses and local authorities is because they can, do not stand in the way of the big corporate machine because you will lose, I know as (like Sue) I tried and was forced out of business because the local authorities are feited to such a degree they cannot and will not stand up to them. I would love a cosmopolitan village with butcher, baker and candle stick maker (ok we have one of those in Bordon and I think you CAN have enough candles). There is potential to create a great shopping experience in station Road but are the residents ready for bistros, butchers, Deli etc. Sue you have a right to gripe and a divine right to feel that life has dealt you a very rough deal, keep fighting back. Dave L

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - liz (24th May 2007 - 08:33:54) Phil You don't think big companies can make stupid errors. Do you ever read the financial papers or watch the news?

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Sue W (24th May 2007 - 08:45:41) Phil All your posting shows is how little you know!! Dave L Your words are spoken from experience, and knowledge and u understand exactly what the situation is. I do feel that perhaps some people miss judge my intentions, yes the big S has swallowed my business, but not just mine, other shops in Liphook are feeling the pinch too. So many posters seek Butchers, veg shops, but fail to understand that before Sainsburys we did have all of those. I am still fighting and there is a possibility of keeping open, with such good local support, but am unsure of a regular trade. If phil is anything to go by, its not worth the effort!!.

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - oscar (24th May 2007 - 09:46:27) I think Sue has every right in the world to gripe about Sainsburys. It has taken away part of the liphook way of life . Sue and trevor supply liphook with a fantastic service,as do many of the little shops that are left in Liphook. The only thing Sainsburys is good for is a meeting place for the youth of liphook and the boy racers . Keep up the good work Sue !!!! oscar

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - barbara (24th May 2007 - 10:59:09) I do think that we should concentrate on facts rather than rumours- The public for miles around come to Sainsburys it is far busier now than before the expansion. Unfortunately people are so busy they do not have time to shop as they did in days of yore and wander into each shop. The only shops which can survive would have to offer something not available at Sainsburys such as specialist items-how about an upmarket lingerie shop-Im sure the men would love it! What about an upmarket all day french style Brasserie? Instead of thinking of the way Sainbury has killed trade think of ones they could not affect! Bridalware shop? Material shop? After watching the programme on Sainsbury Deli counter specialist cheese shop etc!

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - phil (24th May 2007 - 12:03:13) barbara, that is exactly what i have been trying to say to sue (although not so eloquently). diversification is what is needed nowadays to keep individual businesses afloat. sue, i think you need to move away from the fact that sainsburys now sell similar stock to you and your husband at a cheaper price. they are in liphook to stay however much bad press you give them (in the obviosuly one-sided Herald franchise). diversify, adapt and you could survive. dwelling on the past will not help, because you are now no longer the only homewares retailer in the town and need to do something different rather than just accepting fate. let's get away from this always talking about sainsburys. there are plenty of other, far more important (and interesting) things going on in the world. phil

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Moley Smoke (24th May 2007 - 13:27:01) Had enough of Sainsbury's eh? Well, here's another pebble for the Liphook pond from my rumour control bunker deep in Penns Place, where the mission statement above my desk reads:- make Every effort to Hinder all Developments in the County. Lurking in dark corners here are boffins and geniuses who come up with all the bright ideas to make our lives more complicated - oops! I mean comfortable. One in particular - known as the "Droid", is, apparently, masterminding the next phase of the GRAND RE-CYCLING INITIATIVE. The Droid's dream is, it seems, a collection of something or other on EVERY day of the week, including Saturday! Just imagine, the "bottle box" on Monday, Tuesday might be cardboard, Wednesday Plastic Fantastic, old clothes for Thursday, complaints about Sainsburys on Friday and Saturday would have to be dead rat day! And the Droid's coup de grace? - you'll need a different coloured wheelie for each day!! What joy! Planning applications for outhouse storage facilities are available now and remember - there are swingeing fines for anyone making even the tiniest mistake! Happy days tax payers. The Mole

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - liz (24th May 2007 - 15:37:30) Moley If only Penns Place had the ability to organise all that they might also have the ability to get Sainsbury's to stick to the retrictions imposed in its original planning permission. Unfortunately they don't have the resources (at least I assume that's the reason, perhaps they just can't be bothered) for a prolonged legal battle with the supermarket. I've also seen that the Competition Commission has decided the regulatory code regulating the relationships between supermarkets and their suppliers is not effective. Surpise, surprise.

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - phil (24th May 2007 - 16:05:24) danger liz, you are sounding more and more like sue woods every day.

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Sue Woods (24th May 2007 - 19:51:58) Phil I seem to have got up your nose - ever so slightly. We know we will not stop the giants - I have no intention to do that single handed. But we can make it as uncomfortable as we can - rather like your choice words!! If you are so so clever, why have you not posted suggestions to my question of what would Liphook like me to stock!! I only presume from the resounding response NOTHING!! For someone so obviously perfect - you have to sell what you have, in order to buy something else - thats being done right now. If - i say If we can remain open it will not be selling the same things - but I am sure even you cant predict what they will stock next. Probably undies, shoes, a prescription counter to name but a few!! Any business only works if people walk through the door. That is the whole point of why the refit store is damaging small businesses - the need to walk through a door has been taken away. I could stock and do stock items not available from them, but people have to make the effort to walk in. No matter how much advertisement you may do, its feet through the door that count. By the way, how often have you been into the Housewares over the past 2.5 years? I've got just the items for you to buy, they are matching beakers and bowls - with smiley faces on in fun and trendy colours. Different enough for you. Sue

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Steve Read (24th May 2007 - 20:11:16) Geniuses & Boffins in Penns Place, now I know your full of Moo Dung Mr.Mole.

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Sue W (24th May 2007 - 20:51:33) Barbara, Thanks for some suggestions - unfortunately many would not work within the space available. The housewares is slightly less than half of the other units, and no storage space out back. Posh undies would, or even any kind but would people use it. And I would have to offer a changing room (not like Sainsburys, where you have to use the loo! - yes!! got them in here too, Phil take note!) I was selling exactly the same quilt cover as Next did a couple of years ago, theirs was £70 mine £45, unfortunately to say you purchased it from the local Hardware Department didn't quite have the same ring as Next!! May sound snobbery, but that is what matters to some!!

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - liz (25th May 2007 - 08:43:44) Phil I take your comment as a compliment. At least Sue is not one of the complacent "Oh do shut up dear and don't make a fuss" gang.

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Barbara (25th May 2007 - 13:41:35) I do appreciate your shop is small Sue if Liphook is to have the country ware shop is there an add-on for those types of people who might visit? What about expanding your gardening lines if they will not be selling that type of thing? More sunloungers, waterfeatures etc?

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Sue W (25th May 2007 - 16:36:18) Barbara, In the early days of the refit store, we did talk to a number of 'gardening' suppliers, with a view to have new purpose built garden displays. Unfortunately, the new Country wide do a lot of gardening and hardware too. Exactly what we will have to wait and see, but until then the idea is on ice. I have been to a supplier of quality mirrors today, to see if we can strike a deal, I will have to wait and see (!). I could increase my habberdashery section, but its finding out what, I have tried Cross-stitch, rug making kits, etc to no avail, and have contemplated wool, but with the newsagents in the square doing it, wouldnt at this point wish to tread on their toes. Just my kind nature. Also have looked into stocking roller-blinds, trialed a few - but again they are still there. We have been asked for bathroom cabinets etc, and introduced 3 sizes about 2 months ago - guess what, they are still there too. We have had a delivery of sunloungers, parasols, bbq's, paddling pools etc and always are good sellers. One of the fastest new ranges last year was ladies filp-flops for £2.99, (not really a relative product) and the first of the season are now in. I have a long list of products to trial, but like I have said before, we must rid ourselves of the 'not needed' products first. Keep ideas flowing - its comforting to know some people are more than a string of meaningless cliche words!! Sue

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - phil (25th May 2007 - 20:18:05) i was a fairly regular customer for your information sue until you started this one-man slagging off crusade on this site. i don't think you have thought about the positive impact sainsburys has had on the town. it employs getting on for 200 people therefore creating 200 jobs ( just in case you hadn't worked that out ). what would those people have been doing? an hour a day part time in your shop, i don't think so. yes it has it's faults and yes it is a big company that is imposing within the town but it's impact has not been all negative. as for plates with smily faces on, in the words of Nan Taylor from the Catherine Tate show "what a load of old s**t!!) and by the way, they already stock underwear and shoes. obviously haven't been in recently have you?! (reference to your previous comment) if i don't respond again it will be because i have read all what you write before. should rename it www.suewoods-puts-her-opinion-across-and-won't-listen-to-anyone-else.co.uk

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Sue W (25th May 2007 - 22:09:09) Phil You got it. Thats why I thought they would suit you just fine.

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Dave L (25th May 2007 - 22:42:50) Hi Sue Just a quickie what about stocking blinkers, it apears Phil could be your main customer. By the way is it just an Anglo-Saxon male thing or does he just think you should know your 'place'. Keep on posting (even just to wind him up!). Dave L

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - sue W (26th May 2007 - 00:31:24) Phil, I have thought about the last remark, and apologise for the personal comment. Heat of the moment. None of this has anything to do with who we are as people - please try not to forget that we are human too, trying to support our family, home and remain in work. Life has blown us many a challange - some far, far greater and bigger than this Sainsbury's, we are still here and still fighters but I wont be bullied into submission by just a faceless name and a few words. I owe it to myself to try all avenues to protect what we have achieved through a lot of hard work and financial strain, and when i have exhausted all possible avenues, i can live with myself having done all that I can. I just hope one day you will find something worth fighting for and perhaps you may begin to understand. If you really want to have a pop at me feel free and use the Subject heading FAO Sue (created a while ago by somone else). Regards Sue

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - mammal (26th May 2007 - 16:21:07) Phil, Phil, Phil, Devil's advocate, provocateur, bored individual, or whatever you are, within the world of commerce there has to be rules, a bit like football and our government is a bit like the FA and the referee, are you still with me? If the referee is too strict the game doesn't flow, if he is too slack the game will descend into anarchy, or becomes ridiculously one sided, neither situation is fun to watch or participate in. Is that clear enough for you? Good man, now give Sue a break and don't be such a weasel, there's healthy competition and this is not it, nor is it healthy.

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - phil (26th May 2007 - 18:33:39) that's me put in my place then!! like i said people have opinions and sue's are not always the same as mine....!! i wouldn't want to see all the independent retailers of liphook leave, but things change and people have to adapt with them. this sainsburys argument is really dull now. how about we talk about it when something meaningful happens there to talk about, not just the same train of thought every day. it's more than my tiny brain can cope with!! all the best with trying to keep your head above water sue, and thanks all others for the compliments i have been paid over the last few days. phil.

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Candyfloss (26th May 2007 - 19:01:47) Phil You sound like you are the one treading water!!. If I recall the post on here it was actually you that started it again. Sue was only quoting facts - you made it sound like a mis-guided personal vendetta, and turned it into a personal attact, by dredging up points you made much earlier. I love the bit where you say sue woods has her own opinion, and never listens to anyone else, and then have the nerve to say that she doesn't have the same point of view as you!! we all know why Sue has reasons for doing it, buy why are you, perhaps an employee?

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - mammal (27th May 2007 - 10:00:08) Phil If that is some genuine humility, Sorry I called you a weasel.

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - mammal (29th May 2007 - 12:13:39) Unfortunately the editor seems to edit some of my comments rightly or wrongly depending on your point of view. Which does have the effect of taking the sting out of it somewhat. So I will try to rephrase using more palatable English. Sainsbury's is a nefarious, sick, monopolistic, ravenous organisation that absolutely will not be checked or moderated in any way, locked in a bitter battle with other like minded super market monsters and the small business, suppliers and village life as we once knew it are the collateral damage. If there is such a thing as absolute evil which I doubt there is, they are doing their damnest to make me change my mind. They do not create jobs, that is simply a myth, that is something they spit out time and time again, to justify their sick existence, they cause as much if not more unemployment than employment. Do you honestly believe an organisation like that is in the business of providing employment per se, they employ the least possible number of staff, and pay them the least possible wage. But they DO employ people and don't they know it cos, as soon as Government or any other body tries to reign in their capitalistic excesses, they scream mass redundancy at the top of their lungs. Still I like the adverts with the good old wholesome, Jamie Oliver, multi millionaire dollar champion of school dinners. Mixed up Phony Fraud, that he is. Mind you I do shop there now and again, I like the bean wraps you get and I love walking by those delightfully articulate young boys and girls, that all stop talking as you walk by to stare as you walk by. So with a bit of luck the editor will published this little rant unedited. It's ok the Sainsburies police wont be knocking on your door in the middle of the night, I promise you. [editor - minor edit]

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Chris (29th May 2007 - 12:55:04) So there you have it. Sainsbury's is actually a Capitalist/Fascist oppressor, that Milton Friedman or even Hitler himself would have been proud of, brilliantly disguised as a purveyor of sundry comestibles. I think their "buy one get one free" scam is particularly evil. Perhaps the abundance of empty shelves is a deliberate attempt to disguise their true identity by emulating Russian shops in the sixties.

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - rob (29th May 2007 - 13:56:25) So mammal now claims to be a dung beetle. Not just stuck in the para-communist rhetoric of the 1960s (which even the communists have abandoned), also clearly very confused.

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Stephen (29th May 2007 - 15:58:24) In a sense I agree with mammal that Sainsbury's (and their ilk) is out of control and is evil. Not because the effect the store has on the village - but from the point of view of their smaller suppliers, i.e. the farmers. It seems reasonably clear to me from anecdotal evidence (but unfortunately not to the OFT) that Sainsburys, Tesco, etc are screwing any supplier who cannot afford to lose the business (which is just about anyone). We have Fairtrade for coffee plantation workers in South America, but not for our own farmers. And how can anyone produce a chicken to sell at 3 or 4 pounds. I don't want to eat anything that has had that little spend on it. That's why I don't like supermarkets. As for the rest - well that's 300 years of capitalism and its ain't gonna reverse.

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Steve Read (29th May 2007 - 18:09:09) I think those trolleys with wobbly wheels are really evil! Get back you spawn of the devil I shout when accousted by a Sainsbury's advert on the telly. Reaching for a wooden stake and a big hammer when I see an orange plastic bag floating menacingly around Liphook, especially after dark. Cries of die! go on die, as I stick my knife and fork into Sainsbury's own roast potatoes. As for the Sainsbury's fleeces the staff wear I think an exorcism is booked in for next Wednesday about 10.15am. Providing they can get through the Square, I told em to do it this week while the School is on half-term.

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Eneida (29th May 2007 - 19:53:55) Thank goodness for you Mr. Read....you've made me laugh :D:D This website has been so full of bovine poo recently that it was getting quite depressing!!! Eneida

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Candyfloss (29th May 2007 - 20:59:05) The exploits of all supermarkets on farmers is well documented. But just to make it more believable and very true, i had this conversation with a scrap metal dealer. He had purchased a lot of good quality metal and stainless steel from a LOCAL farmer (in Surrey), when he asked them why they didn't need their equipment the answer was - 'we were into a contract with a supermarket to supply 2 fields of crops, so were 3 other local farmers. When time came to assess the crops and select which field they wanted, they chose another one, and the crops had to be ploughed back as there was no buyer that late into the season. The same thing happened for three consecutive years. On the forth year, they accepted their crop, and the owner said, sorry mate, mine wasnt good enough for you for the past 3 years, so i will plough them in again. Hence the Supermarket lost their prize field, no goods, as the others had done the same and they had to buy at a much higher price. Hence customers were paying extra.' If a hardworking farmer has been pushed out of business by such practice, I am sure he would be so happy to hear that some people think it is bovine poo.!!

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Eneida (30th May 2007 - 10:07:07) I don't see any logic in this story at all....what one might call a 'pyrrhic victory' ;) The 4 local farmers should have got together, formed a co-operative and negotiated with the supermarket from a position of strength or set up their own Farm Shop. Eneida

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - rob (30th May 2007 - 10:07:52) Why would a farmer, even in a fit of childish pique, plough in a crop for which he has been promised payment? If that's how he behaves, it's no wonder he's gone out of business. Hardly "driven"; more voluntarily plunged, I'd say.

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - mammal (30th May 2007 - 11:34:04) Actually I was the first customer in Sainsburys in Liphook. How about that. I camped out all night to be the first customer in order to obtain a contribution to a charity I was raising money for. I think they gave us a bottle of Sainsburys sparkling wine and a £50 voucher. I was blown away by their generosity. I almost forgot that, Sorry they're great and they don't commit acts of mass genocide, that must make them almost Saintly. God bless you Sainsburys and all who shop in you.

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - Candyfloss (30th May 2007 - 20:34:16) Eneida etc I never asked the scrap metal man the ins and outs of the situation, and he wasn't qualified to answer either. Neither are any of us. All i know is that sometimes truth is much stranger than fiction. I am sure they tried lots of ways but for them none was successful. It is so hard to understand how people not living the circumstances can pass judgement on those who are?

Re: Rumour (out of) Control - purplecurly (31st May 2007 - 21:04:32) It is also true that lots of farmers are now converting to bio fuels that are not sold to supermarkets but to buyers outside the EU. I wonder if the big chains will start to respect their farmer suppliers and give them a fair price when there are only dwindling numbers remaining? I can certainly understand the farmers willingness to switch crops when it costs more to raise a pig than they can sell it for and a pint of mild costs less than a bottle of ‘volcanic’ water! I was so sad when the Sesame Health store closed. We used to do our shopping there. Now have to go to the BranTub in Petersfield. But only when I am passing through on other journeys as don’t want to drive there especially.

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