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Global warming - Editor (15th Mar 2007 - 17:55:20) Following on from other discussions here, if you didn't manage to watch the Channel 4 program "The Great Global Warming Swindle" it is now available on line at youtube - view here. It sheds a totally different light on the problem, and is very very interesting viewing.

Re: Global warming - Frank (15th Mar 2007 - 22:29:59) Enterrtaining viewing yes but based on bad science. See www.monbiot.com/archives/2007... Frank

Re: Global warming - Mike Grimes (16th Mar 2007 - 01:49:10) Powerful stuff, and it's a brave man that promotes this. The 'God of man made global warming' is already making sure that "Editor" is on the hit list. The heretic. This is so simple, solar activity causes global warming. Global warming warms the oceans. Oceans release dissolved carbon dioxide (like liquids do when they are warmed). There is shown to be a relationship between CO2 concentration and temperature. All the anti-communists and hippies of the world, who are running out of causes, spot this relationship. Suddenly it is the new religion that man created "Global Warming" non believers cannot be tolerated. Actually it was the other way around - just like the other religion. But if enough people believe it, it's a great way of raising taxes. The amount of dissolved CO2 in the oceans is massively greater than man could produce if he were to burn all the carbon deposits left in the world. Let's face it, once that is done, it's done and global warming won't, then, be the number one priority. Incidentally, did anybody see the Liphook Junior School family science quiz? There was a question which asked which gas is the 3rd largest constituent of air. I wonder if this "New Religion" caused anyone to get the answer wrong by a factor of 30. [editor: nitrogen comprises 78% of air by volume, oxygen comprises 21% of air by volume, and argon comprises another 0.9%, carbon dioxide is 0.03%. The rest is water vapour, ozone, methane, various oxides of nitrogen, neon, and helium]

Re: Global warming - liz (16th Mar 2007 - 08:34:04) The sun warms the earth - the problem is with the layer of 'insulation', the atmosphere. If the scientists are correct I understood the problem was that less heat is being radiated back into space. I saw the Channel 4 programme and found it very interesting but the 'adjustment' of some of the axis on some of the graphs to make their case (i.e. some ended in 1980) didn't do much for their credibility. Global warming has been on the agenda for 30 years plus, warming (whatever the cause) has been acclerating for the last 15 years or so. What I would like to know is why is it SUDDENLY such an issue. Nothing to do with higher energy prices of course. That said, as we're not entirely sure what is causing the warming,and it could be us, we can't afford not to do something about it. (Although in my view it shouldn't be used as an excuse by governments just to pile on the taxes. Better the carrot than the stick!)

Re: Global warming - Chris (16th Mar 2007 - 12:23:39) I read that the surface temperature of Mars is also increasing slightly due to increased solar activity and the same fluctuation in solar activity is affecting temperatures on our own planet. You may get some re-assurance if you read about the Gaia hypothesis (see the book by James Lovelock) which "speculates" (though no doubt with plenty of factual evidence to back the claim up) that the Earth can regulate and adjust its own temperature just as the human body can. I get the impression that Global warming is not entirely man made.

Re: Global warming - Eneida (16th Mar 2007 - 14:38:18) Yes, they were talking on the This Week programme last night about evidence of ice melting on Mars for the last 2 years and they also said some of the moons around Jupiter are showing signs of global warming. I think a lot of the hysteria going on at the moment is being spun by the politicians.....another way of controlling the masses and raising taxes. However, I've thought for years that we should develop other, renewable fuels and not rely on oil so much....not only because they cause less pollution, but because it lessens the dependency on dodgy oil producing countries. So, if nothing else, something beneficial might come out of all this, including no more wars like Iraq!!.....oh sorry....that was about WMD's wasn't it ;) Eneida

Re: Global warming - Mike Grimes (16th Mar 2007 - 23:16:35) Interesting that you should mention Mars. I was reading a very well reasoned case from a global warming - it's all our fault - protagonist when he finished with the sentence - "If you need any more proof that Man is responsible for global warming, then look what happened to Venus". I thought Man came from Mars!

Re: Global warming - Editor (17th Mar 2007 - 10:40:45) BBC - "Two leading UK climate researchers have criticised those among their peers who they say are "overplaying" the global warming message. " bbc news 17th March There are clearly two opposing sides to this debate - I personally believe that man made CO2 is NOT the cause, but is seen as great source of tax revenue.

Re: Global warming - Mammal (18th Mar 2007 - 07:56:02) You've got to love our mentality, so adept at postulating sophisticated arguments for and against the concept of global warming and whilst we are all pontificating in the courtroom over the finer points, the consequences of unabated consumerism of the earth's natural resources and the ensuing political conflict this causes is left to reach its cataclysmic and tragic conclusion. But hey ho, we must be seen to argue this debate `democratically', God forbid someone with some common sense put their foot down, bang our heads together, draw the line and say enough is enough you silly little people, full of clever scientific arguments but not an ounce of wisdom.

Re: Global warming - Steve Read (18th Mar 2007 - 19:14:05) Sold my dingy now that the whales are okey dokey. Sold my wigwam and moved off the grass verge at Greenham Common now that all them nasty missiles have moved on. Burnt my tree hut once the bypass got built. Now I find myself growing a beard, thinking that cardigans look smart and wanting a jacket with leather elbow pads. Once fully kitted out looking for the next fad to pontificate upon to the unsuspecting masses, in tones which imply "I know better than you." If I can get the silly politicians on board as well, who knows where it will all end. Give it a break, I'm off to have a bonfire, warm up my V8 and leave my telly on standby.

Re: Global warming - Eneida (19th Mar 2007 - 10:16:20) I actually think this is an interesting thread and well worth debating, because whatever side of the global warming fence we sit on, there are laws being proposed and passed right now, which will really affect all our lives. I would like to hear more people's views on the subject and not "give it a rest" as Steve suggests in his post. We shouldn't just meekly accept what the government dishes out, if we don't agree with it....that's what democracy is for, after all. For instance what do people think about the EU proposal about energy saving light bulbs?? I've read a lot of opposing views on these bulbs, some of which have been quite disconcerting IMO [in my opinion] and worry me.... Eneida

Re: Global warming - mammal (19th Mar 2007 - 12:49:50) Yeah you're probably right Steve Lets do what we do best, not give a toss about anything just by snide, jaded and cynical, as long as we're all snug and cosy. You forgot to say you sold out as well as everything else. Addaboy.

Re: Global warming - Allan (19th Mar 2007 - 17:50:12) Spot on Eneida, it is an interesting debate; if for no other reason than the fact that not one side of the arguement is any more factually based than the other. The "Greens", as usual, employ the shout loudest approach in the sure knowledge that it has worked before Any moderate view being dismissed as too silly to even contemplate. To be fair, I agree with a lot of what they say. A hell-bent- for-leather race to to strip the planet of it's natural resources without regard to renewal is nuts.Ask any farmer why overuse of land, for instance, is not a good idea. What gets me about them is their condescending attitude that they cannot be wrong. Statistic after statistic is rolled out. The opinions of eminent scientist, one after the other to back them up. The opinions of equaly eminent experts are rendered utter drivel unless they are in agreement. The subject will roll on for ages yet; I suppose as long as there is anyone left out there making a buck out other peoples fear and ignorance. Final thought to ponder; in one of the Sunday papers, John Redwood, the former govt. minister, said that it had been reported back from a space probe to Mars that it too was experiencing "global warming" but that the same probe was unable to identify any 4x4's that may be responsible. Whether this is the official Vulcan view or not , I guess only he and Spock would know!!!

Re: Global warming - Steve Read (19th Mar 2007 - 18:28:05) So tonight then mammal you have turned your central heating off, lit the candle, had a salad for dinner and are walking to work in the morning.

Re: Global warming - rob (19th Mar 2007 - 18:54:11) I agree with Allan about the quality of the science underpinning the debate. It's pretty ropey on both sides (if only because climate changes are incredibly difficult to measure, given the huge range of widely variable variables which contribute to any overall, long term effect). Taking it all together, I think I'd come down on the side of those who think we ought to do what we can to reduce our carbon emissions, just in case they're going to lead to potentially very significant worldwide changes. But let's keep it in perspective. Two weeks ago the Government signed up to a mandatory EU requirement to produce 20% of Europe's total energy (ie not just electricity) from renewables by 2020. Even if, in the carve up, we only get lumbered with producing 10% of our energy from renewables by then, this will cost UK consumers something over £120 billion to achieve. Which is madness, because that isn't even the cheapest way of reducing our carbon emissions! It'll make Trident look cheap in comparison - which would be amusing if we weren't trying to do both. And we produce only 2% of worldwide carbon emissions, so even if we were to collapse the economy entirely, it'd have virtually no effect on climate change. Lock up your 4x4s; cover up your ordinary lightbulbs; turn off your central heating. The carbon fascists are coming. And they are relishing their government backed mandate to attack the rest of us. rob.

Re: Global warming - Mammal (20th Mar 2007 - 07:54:17) No Steve not as much as I would like, next time it gets really cold i'll have to ask you to come round and we can share bodily heat. Seriously, Global warming, Global warning who cares if the science is sound, what are we trying to do? a mass experiment to see if we can destroy the planet and every species on it, just to see who's right? That one light bulb we leave on could be the straw that breaks the camel's back, or the one tree we cut down. Eventually it will be that finely poised, to not take some individual responsibility regardless of what everybody else is doing is crazy.

Re: Global warming - Steve Read (20th Mar 2007 - 20:34:30) Quality Mammal LOL. I expect they would find a way to tax us on that as well. Still won't convince me anything we try to do will make a slightest bit of difference.

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