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Everlasting School Traffic Problems - Barry Hope (18th Jan 2007 - 12:42:48) Hi all, Just thought I would update you as to the progress (or lack of) regarding the plans to address the traffic problems around the schools in Avenue Close that have been evident for a few decades. I attended one of the regular Community Forum meetings run by EHDC last Tuesday and asked the question "Would the Council (EHDC) please contact Hampshire County Council to get an update from them on the travel plans that had been proposed quite some time ago to address the traffic problems around the Avenue and Avenue Close in Liphook as we still have heard nothing about any progress. I have just received a reply and (as it was in answer to a public question) have reproduced it here for your information. The following is an email reply sent to Gwill Williams (who works within the Transport Projects (Community) Department of EHDC), from Philippa Gordon, School Travel Plan Manager, Transport Policy, Environment Department, Hampshire County Council. More info about Travel Plans can be found on this web site link http://www.hants.gov.uk/schooltravelplans/ "I have spoken to Karen and she has informed me that we are going to undertake some more feasibility after the zebra in Headley Rd is complete. Due to the lack of public support for the original scheme we are aiming to run some workshops with the school, residents, members etc to get everyone in agreement as to what needs tackling and how. Any scheme resulting from this would then be put through our prioritisation matrix so funding would not be guaranteed although I believe there is a small amount of EF (External Funding) that could be used. I will speak to the schools when I see them on Friday about updating their plan once the zebra has been installed and the new pedestrian entrance is being used as the original plan is now due for review." I will personally continue to press for action to be taken to address the problems but as you are all aware, it is not easy and will always inevitably be subject to funding. Hope this may be of some use and lets look forward to the day when some real positive action is taken. Best wishes Barry Hope

Re: Everlasting School Traffic Problems - Paul Robinson (18th Jan 2007 - 13:29:28) Good to see that Barry Hope, one of our Parish Councillors, has used Liphook.co.uk to advise us of County Council contact addresses and keep us informed of the school traffic debate. Can we assume that the Parish Council will in future make further use of this site and abandon their plans for a Parish Council web site (still under construction?) As one who has made repeated suggestions over the years to use the scrub area of the school playing field that borders the Avenue as a lay by for dropping off school children I am disappointed to note that this scheme has not been mentioned, acknowledged or indeed discussed. Yes, I am sure, it is all a question of funding and I have no doubt that the Government's about turn with regard to the importance of school playing fields will be used as an argument against this proposal. As I see it unless crawling about among long grass, broken bottles, chip wrappings and other detritus is now part of the curriculum why not use this otherwise useless piece of ground as a partial solution to this long running problem.

Re: Everlasting School Traffic Problems - Barry Hope (18th Jan 2007 - 15:01:11) Paul, I am happy to pass on the information for all. Anyone who is interested can find out the same things by asking any questions they wish at the EHDC Community Forums. I attended the one in Bordon recently as a resident of Liphook as well as a Parish Councillor. I also agree with you that the piece of land you mention could be used as part of the solution and is something I have also suggested over the last 15 years or more. I know first hand how badly the regular problems affect local residents in the Avenue and Avenue Close as I lived there myself for 14 years and experienced it daily (in fact, it was because of this issue that I originally became a Parish Councillor). I have attended some HCC meetings in Winchester and raised the issue but have not got much of a response apart from that the School was producing a Travel Plan. A Travel Plan is a start but does not go far enough. I have constantly pushed HCC for a solution and have said that, in my personal view, the overall infrastructure and needs of Liphook should be considered and that this should be in the context of a long term plan, not just a quick, short term fix. These views are my own personal views by the way, but I do know that the Parish Council is also very keen to see a solution in place, although they have no powers to do any more than to simply campaign for an answer. I will, for my part, continue to raise the issue with both EHDC and HCC wherever and whenever I get an opportunity. Lastly, it would really be great if more local residents joined others and me at the EHDC Community Forums, which give everyone an opportunity to ask any questions relating to their local community and also to see what else happens around the area. When I know the date and venue for the next meeting I will let people know. Best wishes Barry

Re: Everlasting School Traffic Problems - Nick Hancock (29th Jan 2007 - 14:18:32) As Chair of Governors at the Junior School I thought I should add my penn'orth to this debate. About the time I become a governor (four years ago) we were developing a travel plan at the request of the County Council (which is the highways authority). Although I wasn't really involved and can't remember the detail, I know that it included improving and extending the parking on Longmoor Road, incorporating a crossing there, to encourage children to use the back entrance to the site. The draft travel plan disappeared into a big black hole. The eventual response was a proposal from the County Council to narrow the entrance to Avenue Close, supposedly to discourage parents from using the road which is causing the worst of the problems. We were given very little time to consult on this proposal but it was condemned by most of those who saw it. We have now come up with our own proposal, to build a path across the playing field to the existing entrance to The Avenue. But for the bad weather of the last couple of weeks, this path would have been finished by now. There are parking spaces on The Avenue and the idea is to provide a positive incentive not to use Avenue Close. We are also bidding for funding for a new walking bus, and if we are successful we will be consulting with parents about how best to organise it. The previous walking bus eventually failed because of a lack of volunteers to accompany the children, so it is just possible that the rather modest available funding may make a difference. Of course, we supported the new zebra crossing on Headley Road. We are also promoting cycling proficiency lessons, which will take place next term (although we have only two prospective trainers and would welcome volunteers to be trained up to teach the course). The problem throughout is that parents cannot easily be persuaded to walk their children to school or allow them to walk by themselves. Many drop them off by car en route to work and can't get them out of the house early enough to come to school by another route - a function of the world in which we live, I suspect. Parents are also naturally worried about the danger of traffic. We have two schools on an "island" site surrounded by roads. The new zebra crossing and the walking bus - if we can find enough volunteers - should help here; an extra crossing on Longmoor Road would have been even better. The idea of a parking area on the school site has been floated in the past. As Paul suggests, the school is reluctant to lose green space (which is used for teaching purposes as well as for playing fields). There are also significant safety and management issues inherent in having parking on the school premises. We are much smaller than Bohunt and so don't have the management resources which they can deploy. One might also ask whether more parking could actually encourage more traffic. What of the future? The County Council actually predicts a drop in school numbers in Liphook, despite the continued building activity in the village. We are questioning this. In the meantime we are full beyond our capacity but there seems little chance that new schools will be built elsewhere. Nick

Re: Everlasting School Traffic Problems - Huw (31st Jan 2007 - 09:42:18) This is always going to be an issue with the lack of ability it seems for people to place one foot in front of the other, we live a 5 minute walk from the schools but it angers me to see people from the same area that drive the half mile. Nick in response to your thread I am a keen cyclist (one of those loonies that is out early on Sundays getting covered head to foot in mud) and my daughter joins the Junior school in September)and would be delighted to assist with the cycle profiency anything to encourage kids onto two wheels has to be good.

Re: Everlasting School Traffic Problems - purplecurly (1st Feb 2007 - 10:40:52) Hi Nick, I notice that the hard core / sand is now being laid on the new school path and that soon it will be complete. This is a positive step in the right direction. With regard to previous posts about the number of car drivers who insist on using their vehicles to drive ridiculously short distances…. I’m afraid that no matter how much lobbying and promotion takes place – the number of persons who are predisposed to use their vehicles in this way will remain a constant. I know that this is a sad reflection society as a whole, but we must accept this core of laziness and take account of it in future plans and not pretend it doesn’t exist and hope it will go away. I feel convinced that even if more acceptable places were provided for them to ‘stop and drop’, they would still opt for the lazy option!! As for working parents; a stop and drop area at the ‘scrub’ end of the field would be an excellent idea. It would take away from the outrageously dangerous parking that is presently blighting the ‘lay-by’ entrance and the surrounding area and may encourage drivers to enter via Longmoor rather than the Avenue. Thank you for your continued good works PC

Re: Everlasting School Traffic Problems - Mike Grimes (1st Feb 2007 - 19:06:22) PC, Well meant, I know, but yours is another post on the subject that tries to deal with the issue of dropping children off without describing how this would solve the issue of picking children up at the end of the day. Infants have to be picked up from their classrooms and, although juniors don't, 360 of them roaming around at a pick up area would be a disaster waiting to happen so parents prefer to meet their children away from the traffic. I think you are right on one thing, no amount of cajoling will get these parents to walk so the only solution is to provide parking and none of them will be satisfied with any space other than that one right by the school gate. The new path is a good idea, I hope it works.

Re: Everlasting School Traffic Problems - Raman (1st Feb 2007 - 22:02:09) Hi I am one of those working parents. I live in Lark Rise and drop my child on my way to office. Though the school is in walking distance from my home, I have to use my car so that I can reach my office in time.It would be of immense help if a stop and drop area is created in the vicinity of the playground. I am sure a lot of parents will be benefitted with this and this will ensure that cars arrive and leave the area in a queue without the blockage caused by parking on the sides.

Re: Everlasting School Traffic Problems - purplecurly (9th Feb 2007 - 14:13:00) On the subject of the new school path that crosses the field. I have been slightly concerned that most builders worth their salts have not been making any mortar of laying any concrete / tarmac etc in the sub zero temperatures, yet this team seem to have disregarded the arctic conditions and ploughed ahead anyway. When the grass starts growing up through the cracks will the school be able to get some money back off them?

Re: Everlasting School Traffic Problems - Nick Hancock (10th Feb 2007 - 12:07:06) Huw, afraid I've only just picked up your post (a bit tied up lately with head teacher appointments). If you would like to train to be a cycling proficiency instructor then please contact the school - 722490. I'm sure there's still time. You'll need to go through CRB checks too. Nick

Re: Everlasting School Traffic Problems - marian c (10th Feb 2007 - 20:38:17) Huw If you want to train to be able to join the volunteers who offer cycling safety (proficiency went out of favour some time ago) contact the school as I believe they are compiling a list of interested parents. The training usually takes place in the evening up in Winchester. Having trained children through the Stage 2 course (10 years) at the school since 2003 I really feel it is worthwhile however, it's difficult to get over to kids how important wearing a helmet is when they see so many adults riding around without theirs.

Re: Everlasting School Traffic Problems - purplecurly (14th Feb 2007 - 10:05:05) Oh No! It is as I feared. Instead of dropping their children off at the new side gate - which would have drastically improved the situation.........parents are parking up and settling in with their picnic hampers at about 8:30 each morning! This leaves the slightly later comers to park up all along the other side of the road. RESULT: The entire length of the Avenue is now reduced to single width. It has been chaos the last two mornings trying to get to Bohunt. I realise the Local Authority don’t want to encourage cars – but as the catchment is so huge and there is no public transport to speak of, what are they to expect!!! Of course people will drive. It would be so simple to use the redundant grass verges to widen the road. This would still leave a nice sized pavement on both sides but would allow for parking AND two way traffic. Why is this simple idea continually overlooked?? I despair. I am wondering whether to start driving down to the Greatham entrance to the A3 and driving up that way. It would add time and miles to my journey but it is the only way I can see to avoid this disaster every morning.

Re: Everlasting School Traffic Problems - Mike Grimes (14th Feb 2007 - 19:08:54) PC, Or you could drop them off in Headley Road.

Re: Everlasting School Traffic Problems - Mr & Mrs Ellis (14th Feb 2007 - 19:16:07) As some one who lives in the Avenue we were pleased to see at last someone has listened to us if only in part and put the foot path across the playing field. A good start. Now will you listen to us about the car park drop of zone at bottom of playing field, which is just trees and rubbish and not used for any purpose. Nick if you are worried about safety and management on school premises we suggest you take a look at Liss School and speak to the head as we have done. The school perimeter fence has been moved back to accommodate the drop off and parking zone thus alleviating the schools responsibly for management and safety. The head will tell you the system works very well. This work was carried out by Hampshire County Council. When we brought this up at the meeting the reason given for not doing either path or drop off zone was that government policy was now not to build car parks. Nothing to do with safety or management. As for Mick’s comment of 360 juniors roaming around if we have another drop off pick up area it is up to the parents to arrange with their child where they will meet them but by moving the school perimeter fence they could still remain in the school grounds until collected.

Re: Everlasting School Traffic Problems - Steve Read (16th Mar 2007 - 18:23:20) Don't worry folks a solution is now in hand and working very well. Popped in the Wavey Line today at just after 3pm. The car park was packed, had to double park and only me and two others in the shop. Reason: All the mumsies with the volvos and range rovers come walking up from the Avenue with the kids in tow. Cheap free parking and very handy, unless you want to use the shop. So there you go people who needs extra space at the school, why don't we all campaign for the wavey Line to get a bigger car park.

Re: Everlasting School Traffic Problems - Paul Robinson (17th Mar 2007 - 08:14:26) Many congratulations for being able to get close enough to the Headley Road Co-op to find the overflowing car park. Tower Road is now an overflow car park for the Co-op with vehicles being parked on both sides forcing two way traffic to alternate passage up and down the road. This inevitably leads to vehicles entering Tower Road from the Headley Road being halted and preventing traffic up and down Headley Road. When this coincides with an articulated lorry trying to make a delivery to the Co-op then what ensues is a complete bugger's-muddle. However, never fear, the area is being observed on occasions by a Community Service Officer with a note book taking car numbers. Seemingly powerless to issue tickets this activity is having little impact on the situation. Just as well the pedestrian crossing is still not finished this allows angry white knucklers to accelerate away at great speed in a cloud of blue smoke and small stones once they have exited the bottleneck. Heigh ho

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