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Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Richard (13th Feb 2012 - 16:10:44) Sadly, this is no joke. EHDC appear to have completely lost the plot and are planning to install ‘speed cushions’ along a half mile stretch of the Longmoor road from the Avenue westbound for both directions of travel. The logic behind this planning calamity? To slow traffic for the proposed Lowsley farm development roundabout at the bottom of the hill on the Longmoor Road. Yes, you are reading this correctly. Having bowed to the obvious and concluded that the creation of a roundabout at the bottom of a steep hill with poor visibility in each direction is inherently dangerous, EHDC have responded, not by throwing out the developer’s proposal, but by instead bending over backwards to try and create a situation where a roundabout might just sneak through the planning regulations. And so we have this madness foisted upon us. To make matters worse EHDC have only deemed it necessary to write to about 10 people to inform them of these proposed changes and invite feedback. Again, yes you have read this correctly. The traffic calming and access proposals have been materially changed from those we have previously seen and have been put back out for consultation but EHDC feel it necessary to inform only a select few despite so many more people being directly affected by the new plans. Anyone who has the misfortune to either live upon, or use the Longmoor Road should take themselves across to the East Hants planning portal and make their thoughts clear on these proposals and the conduct of EHDC on this matter before February 22nd. Go to planningpublicaccess.easthants.gov.uk/... then type in Lowsley Farm and comment via the link on the page that comes up. For anyone struggling for a reason to object to the new proposals I suggest you consider the following: •The speed cushion proposal fails to mitigate the main risk that it is designed to tackle. The point was made during the last consultation that the location of a roundabout at the bottom of a hill with such restricted visibility (owing to the curvature of the road) meant there was a significant risk that vehicles would carry too much speed down the hill and would consequently be unable to stop in time for the roundabout in slippery conditions. This risk was obviously greatest for larger vehicles. EHDC have accepted this risk is significant and have proposed these new measures to reduce the risk by slowing traffic. The trouble with the scheme as now proposed is that speed cushions are deliberately designed so that they do not impede the progress of vehicles with wide or single axels. Articulated lorries, school buses, white vans, Motor bikes etc will still be liable to approach the roundabout at too great a speed unless their progress is being directly impeded by cars, which at most time of the day will simply not be the case. The risk of life threatening accidents resulting from the Lowsley Farm access roundabout therefore remains significant. Surely this renders the imposition of these humps on residents and road users as entirely unnecessary? EHDC should instead be sending the developers back to the drawing board to come up with a safer access proposal rather than trying to help the developer force through this current accident waiting to happen. •Speed cushions are proven to be unpopular, indeed other councils up and down the country are tearing them up as a result complaints from residents and road users. The key complaints made are that the humps are unsightly, damage vehicles, cause increases in impact noise and traffic vibrations for local residents and significantly increase air pollution wherever they are installed. They also (as noted above) fail to slow all types of vehicles. •The location of the humps, two of which are on a section of the road with a very steep gradient, is also a concern. For cars coming down the hill westbound the risk is that the bumps will not be spotted until cars are right on top of them, leading to heavy late breaking. At this level of gradient, in all road conditions, this situation presents a significant risk of vehicles losing control. In slippery conditions the risk is entirely unacceptable. For vehicles coming up the hill at peak hours traffic will be significantly slowed leading to vehicles pulling up the hill in first or second gears. The noise and vibrations from this will be appalling for the houses in close proximity, particularly for residents at the end of Forest Lane Close and No’s 112 & 110 Longmoor Road. Also, where is the need for bumps heading eastbound? Vehicles heading in this direction are not being slowed for the roundabout or indeed for anything else. It is proposed the bumps eastbound stop 150 metres short of the local schools for goodness sakes! If you are going to have them at least have them where they might do some good. •These speed bumps will see very heavy usage and will likely need repairing or replacement on a frequent basis. Who is exactly is going to be expected to pay for this? •The effect on traffic flows elsewhere in the village has not been adequately investigated. If faced with approximately half a mile of speed humps I expect around 1 in 4 drivers will decide against using that stretch of the Longmoor Road to enter or exit the village and will instead gladly use the A3 and the London Road instead to bypass the bumps. We saw a similar impact when speed humps were installed in the Avenue and the number of people using it as a cut through between the Longmoor and Headley road diminished sharply. That may have been desirable but it is unclear whether the effect of these new humps would be so well received and EHDC have not provided us with enough information to draw such conclusions. This could for example have highly significant impacts on traffic flows and jams at the Square in peak hours. Surely EHDC should have looked into this and informed us of their findings?

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Val Leonard (13th Feb 2012 - 17:24:49) Thanks for the 'heads up'. I've posted a comment on the planning site. Val.

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Nick (13th Feb 2012 - 18:45:36) I do hope that out District Councillors are aware of this possibilty and make their views known th the population of liphook and what can be done if anything. I often wonder if the staff at the District Council can see as far as the end of their noses and make decisions that could cause problems later on.( not for them but for us.) It did cross my mind on one aspect of this plan but i do not think i can print it so will leave it to your imagination.

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Richard (13th Feb 2012 - 20:02:06) My submission below: If their is a proposal to put in traffic calming Ie. some type of speed hum/cushion) this strikes me as a workaround to an issue. |The developers need to develop a proper traffic management solution that will not impact the environment by increasing vehicle emissions. Vehicles slow down and then speed up over humps which increase the emissions over and above a steady speed through the same road way. If the road needs attention to meet the requirement to be able to drive along it safely at the posted speed limit, and for vehicles to join said road at the posted speed, the redesign the road, and do not continue the "sticking plaster" solution of road humps. If the increased traffic flow of a new estate would be too much for the existing road, even with re-engineering, then do not build on that site, and therefore do not approve planning permission

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Leanne (14th Feb 2012 - 00:05:29) I thought this was an early April fools when I read title! Sadly not. The whole notion is just daft. Togther with the required road signs this will entirely alter the aesthetic characteristics of the area for about half a mile in either direction of this proposed roundabout. What colour would these bumps be? It wouldn't be possible for them to match the asphalt without increasing the risk of them going unseen by drivers. So, bright red it is then, that should blend in nicely! This new plan will adversely affect the visual environment as far up the road as No 76 Longmoor Road. You mention only a select few had been informed of the revised plans, do we know if that includes all residents up the newly affected strip of the road (No's 114 - 76) If not surely it can be challenged? This is environmental vandalism pure and simple and that is before you even consider the vehicle emissions implications of this plan. The saftey and traffic flow aspects you raise are even more concerning. It is alarming that the council looks prepared to gloss over these issues. It would be nice to think that the saftey and economic prosperity of existing residents would be considered more important than allowing a developer to line their pockets off the back of an ill conceived access plan. I will make a submission to the council on these subjects. I assume the parish council will do likewise? Just out of interest, does anyone actually believe it is possible for this roundabout to be made safe?

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - pam (14th Feb 2012 - 12:36:37) In response to Colin Osborne's posting I would like to point out that Hampshire County Council, Highways Department make all decisions regarding traffic calming which obviously includes "cushion speed" bumps. Lobby them and Bramshott and Liphook's County Councillor. I am all for pointing the finger of blame and accusation when it is deserved. However in this case the accusation against East Hampshire District Council is inaccurate and not deserved.

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Richard (14th Feb 2012 - 13:17:31) Pam You are quite right, responsibility for the design of these latest traffic calming measures falls to HCC's Highways Department who will in turn make a recommendation to EHDC. Sorry for not making this clear in my initial post. I will try and find the contact details of the highways dep't and post them up so that we can complain through that channel too. EHDC will only be in the firing line in the event that they accept a positive recommendation from the highways department in the event that these plans are not radically altered. It is still important that people respond to the EHDC consultation and we can we can still be legimtately unimpressed with EHDC for the decision to re-open the consultation in such a limited and low key fashion despite such material changes to the application having been made.

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Richard (14th Feb 2012 - 17:42:57) Leanne I’m afraid I’m not really in a position to provide definitive answers to your questions. There are hopefully others on here with greater expertise who can chip in. With regards the consultation exercise, without knowing who EHDC got in contact with it is difficult to know whether a challenge would be possible. That said, surely the purpose of a consultation is to give everyone who may be affected the right to have their voice heard? Against that criteria this poorly publicised exercise over such a short timeframe must come up short. However, I doubt EHDC would be amateurish enough to allow a consultation exercise to break any explicit rules. I therefore imagine we have few grounds for challenge in this area. Our best course is to try and spread the word so that those affected are aware of the plan and have time to comment. The safety concerns probably provide the best route for a future challenge to the development. EHDC and the HCC Highways team should not be fudging safety worries in order to facilitate a non essential housing development that the local community do not even want. As that is plainly what these plans do, in the event they are given permission by the district council, I think the door has been left well and truly open for a judicial review and further appeals if necessary. This is very much something the parish council and affected residents should investigate. As for whether this roundabout could ever be made safe, I think in its current proposed location the answer is simply no. The combination of poor visibility down the hill and a steep gradient create a dangerous cocktail which it does not appear simple traffic calming measures will be able to resolve. This is the second set of traffic calming proposals we have seen. Both have been enormously flawed and leave the public facing unacceptable risks. If there was a better solution for this location I expect we would have seen it by now. If a roundabout is to be located on this part of the Longmoor road then in order for it to be safe I think it would need to be located another 20-25 metres further down the hill. However, this would then worsen the visibility issue from the top of the hill so at the same time the ‘S bend’ section of the road would have to be straightened to allow the roundabout to be clearly visible from the crest of the hill and from the bottom of it. For obvious cost reasons this is something I imagine the developers are reluctant to consider whilst they believe EHDC and the HCC highways people are willing to ride roughshod over safety concerns and will allow them to resolve their access problems on the cheap using traffic calming. By making submissions to EHDC we can and least make clear that we have very grave and genuine safety concerns regarding this roundabout that we will not allow the council to ignore or gloss over. Nor will we allow them to mitigate these concerns via half baked traffic calming schemes that have not been fully investigated regarding their impact on the rest of the village, or that fail to reduce the risk of accidents to an acceptable level, or that impose an unreasonable environmental cost on the local area and residents whilst assisting the developer to line their pockets.

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Jan (14th Feb 2012 - 18:49:28) I remember this being discussed in the 1970s, didn't happen then, will it happen now.

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Richard (14th Feb 2012 - 23:36:11) I wonder how many people know the damage that the type of speed hump being considered for Longmoor Road do to low profile car tyres. If drivers of cars fitted with tyres of less than about 60 profile try to straddle the humps, that is having a wheel on the tapered edge each side they will be damage the inner side wall of their tyres. The lower the profile the worse the damage. The big danger here is that the inner sidewall is invisible on most cars and the danger of a blow out on a fast dual carriage becomes much greater. You have been warned!

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Rob (15th Feb 2012 - 01:40:06) I was written to, and did look at the plans online. Another problem with these cushions, is that they are a total eyesore. Liphook is a lovely looking village, not a modern housing estate.

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - JS (15th Feb 2012 - 07:11:30) Can we have some on the Headley Rd,just before you enter the village !

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Chris (15th Feb 2012 - 08:57:29) I have mentioned before on this site that I would see us use the system I have seen work well in Portugal. Its far less intrusive than speed bumps or cushions and probably less expensive. With their system if you enter or drive too fast in a speed limited you are stopped for 20 seconds by a red traffic light. The result is that most obey the speed limit. Simple but effective! Perhaps Liphook could be a pilot scheme in the UK?

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Steve (15th Feb 2012 - 10:54:52) Whilst the traffic light system appears to have many advantages compared to speed bumps, I don't think it would be appropriate in this particular situation as the primary purpose of the speed cushions is to control the speed of westbound vehicles approaching the new roundabout. I suppose speed contolled lights at the roundabout itself could be an option but I suspect they would not be allowed under current UK road design standards on a roundabout of this type. As mentioned elsewhere the cushions will do little to slow larger vehicles as they come down the hill because their wheels are far enough apart to pass either side of the bumps. A neighbour in Griggs Green who used to drive HGVs has told me that he can almost guarrantee that jackknifing of articulated lorries will become a regular occurance as they try to brake for the roundabout.

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Les (15th Feb 2012 - 11:08:11) As a resident of Forest Lane Close, and I am only speaking for myself, I welcome the speed restrictions being put in place regardless of whether the Losely Park development takes place or not. If this is what it takes to stop motorists travelling at speeds of 50/60 mph down the hill past the entrance to the Close then I am all for it. When turning right out of the Close towards the bypass you are never sure of the speed the vehicle that appears over the brow of the hill will be doing when it comes into view. Why is it that as I drive from the Square down the Longmoor Road obeying the 20, 30, and 40 mph restrictions I always seem to have a queue of traffic build up behind me and after I have turned right into the Close, I look into my rear view mirror and see the immediately following vehicles driver looking my way with either one or two fingers up and mouthing obsenities. Get used to speed humps and 20 mph speed limits in our towns and villages because you are going to see more and more of them all over the country if this is the only way vehicle speed can be curtailed, I drove through Clanfield the other morning, they slow you down very effectively. I find the best method of driving through/over speed humps is to select the correct gear for driving at a consistent safe speed for other road users as well as your vehicles well being without the need to continually accelerate and brake between the restrictions. As someone who also regularly walks up and down the Longmoor Road at night, using a torch, to see and be seen, at times you wonder if the vehicle approaching you is going to make the bends or loose control,as they have done in the past, mounting the pavement and taking you with them. Then you have to risk life and limb crossing the road at the recommended point where the pavement changes sides. I will also add that the system mentioned where a red light stops speeding traffic for 20 seconds sounds a good idea, may be the red light could be incorporated in the flashing mph signs that are installed temporally. as on the Passfield straight at the moment

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Dawn Hoskins (15th Feb 2012 - 12:13:41) This is going to be discussed by the Parish Council Planning Committee on Monday evening, so you should try to attend to put your views accross. The PC are not the decision makers of course, but their opinion should be taken into consideration when EHDC make their decision.

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Richard (15th Feb 2012 - 13:17:24) The following list is from the Telegraph motoring pages and details a number of problems with speed cushions: They break car road springs. They damage the inside shoulders of car tyres, where the damage cannot easily be seen, sometimes leading to blowouts on high speed roads and multiple death crashes later in the vehicle's journey. They damage car suspension and steering, sometimes leading to high speed crashes later in the vehicle's journey. They cause 50% more pollution and fuel consumed due to vehicles slowing down for them then re-accelerating. They destabilise motorcycles and bicycles, sometimes throwing the rider into the path of another vehicle. They are particularly lethal to motorcyclists and cyclists when covered with leaves, and in adverse weather conditions such as snow, ice and heavy rain. They increase noise levels from vehicles slowing down then re-accelerating. They damage vehicle sumps, wrecking engines and casing dangerous oil spillages. They prevent the passage of long low vehicles such as hearses They do not slow all vehicle types, lorries etc are too wide to be affected. They are concealed by heavy leaf fall They are concealed by snow. They prevent the use of snowploughs to clear snow

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Richard (15th Feb 2012 - 13:53:01) I must confess I had not previously even considered the last three points on that list. Surely these problems alone make speed cushions entirely inappropriate for this location? Visibility was already an issue for these cushions given the location of one set just over the brow of a hill with a very steep gradient, and another set just below these on only a slightly more forgiving gradient. At this section the road is hemmed in on both sides by deciduous trees which, after heavy frosts, have been known to absolutely bury the surrounding pavements. Visibility of the humps certainly can’t be guaranteed. If a car hits one of these humps when it is not expecting it then, in slippery conditions, loss of control of the vehicle is certainly more likely than not. Snow is an even more pertinent issue. Preventing this section of the road from being ploughed is absolute madness. Its bad enough as it is with snow ploughs making only a handful of trips down the road in any 24 hour period. To leave a hill this steep and heavily used reliant only upon gritting is just inviting disaster, especially if they then compound the problem by putting a concealed roundabout halfway down the hill! Also, as even cars will only be glancing the edge of the speed cushions, snow upon the tops of the cushions will likely remain there for extended periods, so rendering the presence of the cushions virtually invisible to road users. Does anyone fancy the prospect of driving down that hill unploughed with concealed humps lurking to catch you out? If Longmoor Road were a quiet residential street on a housing estate then it might be possible to argue that these speed cushions were appropriate. In reality it is heavily used rural thoroughfare linking the centre of the village to the A3. There are plenty of reasons not to put bumps on those sort of roads which is why most in Liphook and elsewhere do not have them. In this particular case there are even more reasons than normal to object to their presence.

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Paul (15th Feb 2012 - 20:00:36) Oh for goodness sake! Ridiculous idea and not the solution. Tackle the drivers who treat The Square as a chicane first. Maybe a few more white Corsas parked on Longmoor would bring traffic speeds down - normally does outside Bohunt!

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - matt (16th Feb 2012 - 08:22:07) I don't mind a reduction in speed limits and I'm happy with traffic calming/speed control measures that are appropriate to the circumstances. I do not believe speed bumps are the solution in this instance. I suggest two approaches: 1) Revisit whether access via this roundabout is suitable with the developer 2) If the roundabout is the best option, request that the developer and highways design a better solution to reduce the risk of accidents

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Mary W (16th Feb 2012 - 10:20:41) Les - The only way to slow the traffic down is to put a camera there. As you say yourself, most traffic ignores the speed signs to some extent, so lowering the official speed would do no good.

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - h (16th Feb 2012 - 13:35:28) I believe that this forms part of the amended application for the lowsley farm app? If that gets the thumbs down so will the traffic calming for the proposed roundabout, and so will the roundabout. In any event if the application does go ahead the scheme has to be an entire thing, we cannot pick and choose the bits we do or do not want afterward, the time to object is now via the planning portal.

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Colin Osborne (16th Feb 2012 - 21:18:48) As advised by Pam (14th Feb) the amended roundabout plans are subject to a Technical Review by Stephen Jenkins, HCC Highways authority, Winchester. They have, therefore, not yet been approved. In view of your strength of feelings on the subject I would again advise you to raise your comments/objections with EHDC, who in turn are duty bound to make HCC aware of your issues. The EHDC link is:- http://planningpublicaccess.easthants.gov.uk/online-applications/ (enter Ref: 34310/016 and at next screen click on Icon ‘ Make a public comment’) I would also refer you to the latest editions of The Petersfield Post (15th Feb.) page 14 'Last chance for say on Lowsley Farm' and the front page of the Liphook Herald (17th Feb.) 'Lowsley road row continues'. Both articles encourage residents to take the opportunity to send in comments by Wednesday, 22nd Feb. to add your voice to the arguments so that EHDC and HCC will get the message loud and clear.

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Jim Cartwright (18th Feb 2012 - 08:48:44) Excellent idea don't care what anyone says it is fact that slower cars = less accidents

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Leanne (18th Feb 2012 - 16:24:32) Jim As others have taken the time to explain above, in this case the humps are likely to cause more accidents than they prevent. This will be doubly true if they are joined by a roundabout positioned as is proposed. If overall saftey on the Longmoor Road is your main concern then this is certainly not the answer.

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Colin Osborne (22nd Feb 2012 - 09:51:19) The amended roundabout plans are subject to a Technical Review by Stephen Jenkins, HCC Highways authority, Winchester. They have, therefore, not yet been approved. Rhetoric on Talkback alone will not get the collective message across to EHDC. There is not much evidence to date of your objections/comments being added to the EHDC web site. An e-mail (paul.bowman@easthants.gov.uk) or letter to Penns Place for the attention of Paul Bowman is also acceptable.You now have until the 5th March. I would again advise you to get your message across and add weight to the arguments. The EHDC link is:- planningpublicaccess.easthants.gov.uk/... (enter Ref: 34310/016 and at next screen click on Icon ‘ Make a public comment’) I refer you to the latest editions of The Petersfield Post (15th Feb.) page 14 'Last chance for say on Lowsley Farm' and the front page of the Liphook Herald (17th Feb.) 'Lowsley road row continues'.

Re: Speed bumps to be installed on Longmoor Road - Nick Hancock (23rd Feb 2012 - 20:06:51) Just spotted this thread. I can't see why residents of Longmoor Road should be opposed - speaking as one such resident, they strike me as an excellent idea. Anything that can be done to slow the cars which currently race round the bend from The Avenue must be a good thing. If they have low profile tyres they will just have to slow down properly instead of straddling the bumps - that's what they are supposed to do! But I do agree they are not a solution to the problems posed by the Lowsley Farm roundabout. That is simply misplaced and surely must change.

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