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Supporting local traders - HH (19th Dec 2005 - 14:00:14) We are very lucky in Liphook to have a fair selection of shops. I'm sure that we've all heard to death about how big town shopping is killing the heart of small towns and villages. Sadly, it seems that despite all the words, the good feelings of supporting local traders isn't translating into sales for these folk. I have been in many of the village shops over the last few weeks, and many of them are reporting a very slow trade. Usually at this time of year retailers can expect a higher than average turnover and, even in shops that are geared up for Christmas, with a range of gifts, goods and services, the village shops are not feeling any of the benefit. Please, if you want to keep these retailers, then show them some support. So you may pay a few pence more for the odd item, but surely once you've taken into account time taken, petrol costs and parking, it's cost effective. It's an old chestnut but it's true. Use them or lose them!

Re: Supporting local traders - Paul Robinson (19th Dec 2005 - 20:03:10) Whilst I have every sympathy with the plight of local traders I have to say that the malaise that affects Liphook retailers is just part of a larger picture. Many of the major names in the high street are also wringing their hands and reflecting upon disasterous sales not only in the run up to Christmas but for the last twelve months! But, I hear you say, what of the Governments audited sales figures that indicate a growth in retail sales? The reason is that for some time now internet shopping has been included in these retail surveys and this accounts for some 10% of total retail sales and this figure is well up on the same period last year. The fact of the matter is that stealth taxes and increases in fuel costs have been putting a brake on retail sales and this is unlikely to resolve itself unless the government addresses itself to the problem. Many families who have re-mortgaged their properties in order to free up some spending money or to reduce their borrowings are now anxious about property prices taking a dive and leaving them in negative equity. Some may have good reason to remember the last time this happened and when they see the demise of blue chip companies like Allders and MG Rover they wonder what the future holds for them. I spend a lot of time selling to wholesalers and retailers and not one of them is happy with their current position, several are planning store closures in the new year in order to reduce their costs. Wake up and smell the coffee. This is a national problem not just a Liphhook problem. Paul Robinson

Re: Supporting local traders - Allan (20th Dec 2005 - 01:47:55) Paul, I assume you read in the national press over the w/end that a number of the supermarket chain's internet ordering and delivery services have been suspended due to overwhelming demand. Is this a portend of things to come for the retail industry whether it is village , high st. or out of town? Thing is, it is the very same companies that have set up their web services whose land based stores surely must lose out. Do you think that there may be a plan afoot? After all,prestige retail sites cost mega bucks to be in, low rent warehouses in subsidised locations must be a very attractive altrernative. My view is that local small retailers cannot compete in that scenario nor should they try to; specialise, go for the quality market. The above mentioned are not interested in competing 'cos it is too time and labour intensive. Take the example of the bakery in Station rd., who, in their right minds would buy freshly baked bread in,say, Sainsbury's in preference? I simply can't see the trend reversing.

Re: Supporting local traders - Chris (20th Dec 2005 - 05:27:53) I agree with HH but with some reserve. The advent of Sainsburys means a cheaper, one-stop shop where most of our food shopping needs are catered for. The local shops in our village cannot cater for basic needs on their own and the only other food alternatives (Co-op and Somerfield) are, in themselves, big(gish) supermarket chains. Can anybody honestly say that they could fulfil their weekly requirements by exclusively using our smaller local shops (excluding Somerfield and the Co-op)? I'm afraid it comes down to simple economics and convenience and if Sainsburys wasn't there you would find the huge amount of cars in its car park diverted to Tesco or erm...Tesco. Which leads to the question, excluding the opportunities afforded by the larger local retailers in Liphook, where would you park?

Re: Supporting local traders - liz (20th Dec 2005 - 09:47:19) Chris I seem to remember there was life in Liphook before Sainsburys.. and a geengrocers... and an (excellent) butchers...and sufficient parking and, perhaps most significantly, much less traffic. The traffic volumes generated by Sainsburys and associated development have taken away most of the benefits we gained from the bypass. I am not opposed to Supermarkets but allowing a very large one to be built right in the centre of the village was bonkers..but that's politicians/planners for you. ......Er back to the subject.. I would love to see some more specialist shops in Liphook - and other areas have shown that there is a market for them.

Re: Supporting local traders - Chris (20th Dec 2005 - 11:03:16) Liz, that was before my time here but I take your point. And you're right...traffic volumes are ridiculous!

Re: Supporting local traders - Alex Cameron (20th Dec 2005 - 16:11:52) I remember seeing Haslemere's mayor (yes they have a mayor - do we?) on the soon-to-be-defunct ITV News Channel explaining how they had launched a local loyalty card for small businesses in direct response to the threat posed by Tesco. Quite an interesting idea, although yet to see hwo effective it will be. On another point, how much of this suffering by local business is caused by sticking heads in the sand? If you continue to do things as you always have (or just refuse to deal with changes when they happen), in spite of a massive competitor arriving on your doorstep, then who is really to blame? You won't wake up one day to find they've disappeared! If you can't compete on size or price, you are forced to compete on service and diversity/niche products. I wonder what would happen if half the time spent whingeing were spent on working on a new strategy/direction...

Re: Supporting local traders - liz (20th Dec 2005 - 17:16:14) - The butchers shop was moved to another location outside Liphook - positive for their business but not good for Liphook! We do not want to push all the small businesses away and end up with nothing more than a 'one stop shop'.

Re: Supporting local traders - Mike Grimes (21st Dec 2005 - 02:00:35) The title of this thread is the wrong way round. How about "Local Traders Supporting us" I think just about everybody reading this would be quite happy to support local traders if only they would supply what we wanted to buy at a reasonable price. Supermarkets have become the new convenience store and we are lucky enough to have three in our village but supermarkets were never able to compete with true quality which is why quality butcher's and baker's still exist. Sadly, there is no butcher's shop in Liphook but I certainly would support a quality one. Greengrocers are a bit different, I like the idea of eating vegetables that were pulled this morning (preferably organic) but how many greengrocers source their produce locally? In the main, it comes from Covent Garden - i.e. anywhere in the world and Organic vegetables are invariably past their best by the time they get to us. What I want is fresh local produce (organic or not) and I will support a local business that supplies that. Butchers, supermarket meat is variable in quality. 'Taste the difference' means 'half way there' but how many people have asked - What happens to the male offspring of cows that are bred for milking? And why are we told where meat alledgedly comes from but we are never told the breed. Newsagents, as I write I learn that the Coop were not able to make a go of the newsagents in Station Road. Maybe a newsagents that ceases to deliver newspapers represents a less than satisfactory business model especially as all the previously mentioned supermarkets (convenience stores) are now selling (but not delivering) newspapers. Bakers, we have an excellent one that bakes on the premises. Why would you ever buy that frozen bake off stuff or chemical stuffed pre sliced 'best thing since' crap from a supermarket. Everybody, please stop buying supermarket bread. Oh, I don't actually support local bakers that much here as I like to bake my own. Chemist, yes we have one of those but when I want drugs I go to the Doctor and he/she says that I have to live more than a mile away from the chemist before they will dispense drugs. So if I live a long way from the doctors that I had to visit (near the chemists) I can have the doctor dispense drugs. But if I live closer I have to make two trips. How about the chemist opening a dispensary in the doctor's surgery? Basically local businesses need to stop whinging and start reacting to new local needs. Consumers need to let go of the past and think about what they want rather than where they used to get it. On a positive note, there are some wonderful farmer's markets going on around Liphook every weekend. Winchester's is, I believe, the largest in the country but they are held in Alton, Petersfield, Farnham, Milford etc. Couldn't Liphook have one Mr Parish Council - even if it meant waving a fee?

Re: Supporting local traders - Paul Robinson (21st Dec 2005 - 11:29:45) So, another nationwide multiple hits the skids. The demise of Unwin's Off Licences is just a portent to a few others that will be going the same way in the New Year. By all means support the local shops but please, this is the twenty first century. If Mrs Miniver were alive today she would not be toting her wicker basket and pausing to examine the apples outside the general store on her way to exchange her books at the Boots Library. She would be loading her four by four at Sainsburys or surfing the net for better prices from the comfort of her chintz armchair. Paul Robinson

Re: Supporting local traders - liz (21st Dec 2005 - 15:35:10) This is indeed the 21st century and the surfeit of supermarkets has resulted in them undermining quality and putting unreasonable pressure on producers in their efforts to undercut each other on price. Consumers are now turning back to their wicker baskets (OK maybe not literally!) and looking for a less 'mass produced' product. Consumers are now willing to purchase locally produced food hence the success of the farmers' markets and organic 'box' schemes. (a Farmers' Market in Liphook? A great idea!) There is an organic vegetable shop in Liss and a delicatessan in Headley, why not Liphook? While it is easy to be critical of small traders, it is very difficult for them to compete with supermarkets which have massive purchasing power and can squeeze the last drop out of suppliers and the whole supply chain.

Re: Supporting local traders - Daisy (21st Dec 2005 - 16:06:25) Whenever local shops are mentioned, we always seem to concentrate on Sainsburys and it's part in the death of the local butchers, bakers, etc. etc. As a previous poster said that's a fact of life and you can't compete with supermarkets. Just be grateful we've got a Sainsburys in Liphook. What I'd like to see in The Square would be a diversity of niche shops. For instance a stylish home interiors shop, a really good gift shop, a bookshop, a chocolate shop, an antiques shop....I could go on. These are the sorts of shops people enjoy browsing around and Liphook is certainly large enough to support them. Then we wouldn't have to spend ages queuing up to park in the surrounding towns when we're trying to do our Christmas shopping.

Re: Supporting local traders - Stephen (21st Dec 2005 - 16:16:43) We are all conditioned by the mass marketing of Sainsburys et al to think that ALL products are cheaper in supermarkets. The majority of price slashing is carried out on processed-type foods, not on fresh meat, veg, fruit and proper bread. And how fresh are the products? How do we know how long ago plastic packaged food items were killed/picked? What is the environmental damage caused by flying runner beans from Kenya? And do you remember the last time you bought meat, veg or fruit that actually had proper taste, texture and flavour. Shoppers, do yourself a favour and buy the staples at the supermarket, then go to any local shop for meat, veg and bread. So, there is no butchers in Liphook, but there are fine ones in Grayshott and Bordon (the Farmers Market on the Farnham Road) and everyone has a freezer.

Re: Supporting local traders - LippyChick (22nd Dec 2005 - 07:47:45) How many times have we bemoaned the fact that Liphook no longer has a greengrocers, or a butchers on this site? It is a sad fact of life, agreed, that the advent of the supermarket has meant that local shops have had to change the way that they do business or risk dying. It seems that the all encompassing evil that is the supermarket has already pretty much done it's worst in Liphook. However there are other traders that we have locally that maybe do deserve our attention, and don't come under the bracket of 'compete with supermarkets or die'. For example, why not consider using Liphook Hardware instead of a prolonged trip to Homebase or B & Q? Not only does it save acres of time, but also the service and assistance that you'll get in outlets like this far exceeds what you'd find from some saturday youth who is only earning money to buy top up vouchers for his mobile. Other examples? How about your childs bicycle for Christmas? using Liphook Cycles instead of Halfords or ToysRUs Football boots? Why not A3 instead of JJB. As to gifts, we have a splendid gift shop in the village. Peep Inside is an absolute haven for those looking for last minute birthday pleasers. Perhaps having lost our local food suppliers it is these traders that we should look towards and support. Wake up and smell the coffee? Sure, am happy to, I know that I would rather not have any more estate agents in the Square. Lips x

Re: Supporting local traders - Freddie Dawkins (29th Dec 2005 - 16:27:19) Crikey - What a nice varied thread. Been offline for weeks, I come back and there's all sorts of conversation here. I'll take the political point first: a Mayor would cost money. Your Chairman of the Parish Council (Barry Hope) does it for free, as do all the Parish Councillors. To my knowledge neither Barry, or Alan before him, has ever claimed a penny in expenses. Not bad for 4 years service so far as Chairmen between them. Can't speak for previous Chairmen - but I'm sure it'll be the same story. If you ever go along to a PC meeting, you'll know there is a true community spirit here. And the Chairman and other Councillors attend and support all sorts of local events - they just don't make a song and dance about it - they just get on with it. As to shops. Well, I always make a point of buying locally first. Mark in the bakers has done a grand job - especially when you remember he sold up at one stage and left. Just delighted he came back and got the business going again. Trevor at Liphook Hardware - brilliantly keen prices and service and open all hours at weekends. Alan Snudden at General Wine (where I used to be a part-timer). Alan's built up a really excellent local business over 20 odd years and through his wholesale business, provides work for a dozen local people via the shop and the Beaver site. If you join the Shippers Club in the shop, you'll get automatic discounts, excellent free advice and lots of free tastings etc etc. Chris Hampshire will match any of the big electrical discounters for price - and he's local, and his engineers turn up on time and finish jobs! Isn't that a surprise in this day and age. I could go on about some of the other businesses: Findlay's Florists, The Gables newsagents, Peep Inside, Liphook Taxis, Chockles (Chrissie still does the best poached eggs on toast I've ever tasted!). And what about Mr Cook, the shoe-mender. at Tweenways? He actually takes care about his work and does not charge the earth. And if he's got time, he'll have a chat and tell you about the village and some of the characters who used to live here. Fascinating local history tidbits. And guess where I'll be on New Year's Eve - not the Royal Anchor (gawd forbid!!!) but The Black Fox. Parked up, not driving and having a blooming good evening. Why not come down yourself and discover a real country pub, with good beer and wine, and brilliant cooked food at reasonable prices. (And Paul R, I'm sorry you had a bad experience - once - time to forgive and come back? Life's too short ;-) The railway bridge is re-opened, the traffic is flowing, so there's no excuse not to support Allan and Julie - they are excellent landlords. Mike G - if you're about on New year's Eve - a beer on me. cheers Freddie

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