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Speed Vans - Alex Smith (23rd Sep 2005 - 19:20:16) Has anyone else been caught by a Police man in a van with a speed gun just passed Bordon lights, on the Farnahm road. This is a blatent attempt to gain money for the police force as before the hill it is a 60 mph zone, where as at the brow of the hill it is 40 mph, and this is where the Police Officer was catching the speeding motorists. I feel this is quite unfair, and justg an obvious way of catchin people out. I cannot believe they are saftey devices, as no one can see it coming so are not likley to slow down which is the argument for staionary speed cameras. I feel this is disgusting.

Re: Speed Vans - Mike Grimes (24th Sep 2005 - 01:41:36) Unfair? Unfair to whom? The way I see it you were caught speeding where there is a 40mph limit. The warning is the speed limit sign. The limit does not change when there is nobody to enforce it. Tough luck, cough up.

Re: Speed Vans - Alex Cameron (24th Sep 2005 - 12:28:50) I feel you are dumb. Seriously - something about you makes me want to vomit.

Re: Speed Vans - Helen (25th Sep 2005 - 10:46:16) Alex - if you travel this road regularly surely you know it goes down to 40mph at that point? Speed limits are there for a reason. Have to agree with Mike and don't think your comments to him are justified and not want we want to read on this forum. You stated your point and so did he - why deride him in such a childish manner when you could have debated your point?

Re: Speed Vans - Freddie Dawkins (25th Sep 2005 - 14:24:33) As someone who's had the odd speeding ticket - never more than 3 miles over the limit - I did grin to myself when I read that North Wales police (more cameras per mile/per car than any other police force in the UK) - has seen it's death by driving numbers rise - bucking the national downward trend. The zero-tolerance Chief Constable even admitted this week that maybe they had enough speed cameras in North Wales and that maybe it really was now time to re-educate rather than continue to inflict heavy fines and points on licences. He's talking about dropping the 60 pound fine and instead getting the driver to pay for and agree to attend an advanced driving short course. Makes a lot of sense. If such a hardline supporter can start to change his mind - based on the facts - then maybe there's hope for more serious consideration. I don't see the point of more and more speed cameras - now they are bright yellow, all you do see is lots of brake lights coming on as cars come up to them. The roving vans (often maroon or yellow or white and never looking anything like police vehicles) are, in my opinion, a rather sly way of catching drivers exceeding limits. I saw one last week in Essex, positioned halfway down a long decline. Very little traffic , mid-morning, and pretty obvious that most cars going down the hill were likely to top the 30mph limit. The single operator was sitting comfortably in the passenger seat of the van, reading his newspaper and collecting fines. Rather sad. Freddie

Re: Speed Vans - Dave Lamport (25th Sep 2005 - 20:51:29) Can the nice man with his speed camera please park anywhere from the library to the A3, I will make him tea and provide newspapers before Bernie Ecclestone designates it for the venue for the 2006 Grand Prix, Yachts have I understand booked moorings in Radford Park and we could rival Monaco for attendees.

Re: Speed Vans - S (26th Sep 2005 - 12:57:20) The whole thing is a blatant sneaky way to make the government more money and has nothing whatsoever to do with peoples safety or accident blackspots. If that really was the reason we wouldn't be so against them. So these Cameras are there to help avoid accidents, how many accidents happen there I wonder. None I bet. I'm suprised the Van wasn't disguised as a hedgehog. If you want to avoid them get yourself a laser jammer, you can drive what speed you like then. It also can be used to open your electric garage doors or gates if you have them. So completely legal, noone has been successfully convicted for using them yet.

Re: Speed Vans - A for Anglesey (28th Sep 2005 - 18:21:38) Come now Freddie, I have had one holiday in North Wales. Didn't enjoy it much; food poisoning,rain, insular people,etc. But even now, as sharpas my recollections are, I couldn't raise a grin at the news of their numbers perishing at the hands oof speeding drivers. Have you thought about counselling?

Re: Speed Vans - Alex Cameron (29th Sep 2005 - 00:57:24) Let's not let the facts get in the way of repeating the same nauseating rubbish we read in newspapers and our redneck friends tell us about speed cameras in the like. How about we start with some proper information? Details of speed camera programme funding for 2000-01 to 2002-03 are given in the National Safety Camera Programme three-year evaluation report, which is available from the Department of Transport's website (http://www.dft.gov.uk/.../dft_rdsafety_029193.hcsp). The provisional revenue and expenditure figures for the programme for 2003/04 from the 35 partnerships operating at that time in England and Wales (Scottish figures are separate) were: Receipts from fixed penalty fines: £112.2 million Expenditure: £91.8 million Balance: £20.4 million So the latest stats say we made a surplus of just over £20 million pounds from the 6000 or so cameras deployed across the country. Now, let's have the debate about whether they are effective.

Re: Speed Vans - rob (29th Sep 2005 - 12:30:17) Couple of thoughts. What's so wrong with the government making a bit of money out of these things? They aren't profit taking! The money they make goes back into things like policing. So money taken from people who think speeding doesn't matter means a bit less taxation is taken from the rest of us. Seems a pretty sound principle to me. Second, it's not unreasonable surely to have speed limits. And as is clear from this string of comments, if they aren't enforced, some people won't bother to pay any attention to them. So there needs to be a risk that people will caught out if they flout them. In practice, it doesn't much matter where the cameras/vans/police cars are - it's making us think there's a chance of being caught out sometime that makes (some of) us stick to the law (some of the time). I'm all for it. Rob.

Re: Speed Vans - Chris (29th Sep 2005 - 13:43:57) Just as informative, although perhaps not as exciting is www.highwaycode.gov.uk/signs04.htm ...fourth picture in. From that you can deduce that if it says 40 in a red and white circle it means drive at 40mph or less. Presumably then, if it says 60 in a red and white circle it means you can drive at 60mph or less...and so on...etc. Now, if a red and white circle saying 60 is followed fairly closely by a red and white circle saying 40 then that must mean stop doing 60 mph and do 40 mph instead. Simple really. Stick to that and no-one makes money out of you! No need to debate the effectivity of speed deterants, they work, no matter what form they take. I'm sure the original poster of the complaint will think twice about speeding in that area in future. Only those that don't understand the meaning of a speed limit (absolute maximum safe speed, not one mile per hour more!) will and should be shafted.

Re: Speed Vans - S (29th Sep 2005 - 14:20:31) Chris, either you have been brainwashed or you are part of Lionel Blair's red and white army.

Re: Speed Vans - Chris (30th Sep 2005 - 05:50:07) S, not to my knowledge. Can't quite get my head around your second assumption but I am not a Sunderland Supporter either (always thought Blair was a Newcastle fan). Makes me wonder if I've missed the whole point of your "teenage rebel" posturing...what was it again?

Re: Speed Vans - S (3rd Oct 2005 - 09:52:28) Don't worry Chris it was just my silly sense of humour. Only I got it obviously. :-)

Re: Speed Vans - Steve Read (3rd Oct 2005 - 18:28:35) Change of tack on this thread. 12.15pm this afternoon travelling up the A3 towards Hindhead. Usual delays back to the old Spaniard pub, after crawling upto St.Edmunds School, on the southbound side three vehicles involved in a shunt all going into one another. Damage yes, no apparent injuries all three drivers being spoken to by the Police. I counted 6 police cars, 7 officers having a laugh and a joke on the pavement, 2 officers and a beat officer ( the rarest of all breeds) talking to the drivers and 3 other officers sat in their cars on the radio. Its good to see such a response to these major crimes in our area, makes you feel safe at night. I remember back in January getting my truck stolen and it took officers 2 days to come and get a statement! Still better that than the lady who had her horse box stolen the other week, they never even turned up for a statement. Keep up the good work

Re: Speed Vans - Paul Robinson (3rd Oct 2005 - 19:44:07) I speak as one who was clocked at seven miles an hour over in a forty mile an hour zone. 2 mph less and I would have got away with it as there was an acceptable tolerance of 5mph more or less. 3mph more and it would have been an automatic fine of £60 and three points. As it was I was offered the option of attending a better drivers course that lasted half a day. After a couple of hours on an interactive computer programme we were given graphic illustrations of the difference between stopping distances at 30mph and 40 mph which I found a salutary experience! I understand that these courses are now to be offered in most counties and I urge anyone who has the choice of attending the course to do so. You will never feel the same about speed limits again. Paul Robinson

Re: Speed Vans - Finchie (4th Oct 2005 - 09:42:37) I'd just like to pass on something I was reminded of in the last few months. If there are no speed signs (which these days is a rare occurrence) and there are streetlamps - it is a 30mph zone. Might sound simple but my memory has faded in the 23 years since I took my test - Paul's refresher course seems like a good idea whether you've been caught speeding or not ! I discovered this fact when being caught by a camera in Derbyshire. There were FOURTEEN 40mph signs in the space of a couple of miles. Then a 30mph sign, halfway in a hedge just before a roundabout. I missed it, looking at the roundabout for directions, looking at traffic and generally avoiding people. But nevertheless, I missed it ! Carried on at 37mph for another mile, not one single speed warning, then a camera. My issue to the court was "Why was there not more than ONE 30MPH sign ? Particularly as the only one was poorly positioned and there were FOURTEEN 40mph signs before". Their response was - it is streetlit therefore I should have realised it was 30mph. AND legally they only have to provide one repeater sign to show the change in speed limit. And to get into specifics: For those of you able to take in the vast amount of information thrown at you on the road - for the streetlamp rule to apply the lamps should be no more than 183 metres apart (for England & Wales) or no more than 185 metres apart in Scotland. AND the streetlamps must be higher than 3.96 metres EXCEPT if they are less then 6.1 metres then they should be no more that 45.7 metres apart. GOOD THAT'S CLEAR THEN - Let me get my tape measure out before I enter that streetlit area. WTF is going wrong with the police in this country ! (who will reply it is not a police problem it is a council problem). Perhaps pointing that out didn't help my case ! My point to all those who say "well if you break the law ..." is that - this sequence of cameras is tantamount to deception, has no interest whatsoever in safety, the guidlines for camera positioning are out of date, and what have streetlamps got to do with determining speed limits?. And ... one day it will happen to you. And ... we will all collectively laugh a lot ! Good glad that's off my chest - the rant is worth the 3 point, fine & court costs ! Drive slowly and as always a big Cheers, Finchie.

Re: Speed Vans - S (4th Oct 2005 - 10:16:00) Now we are seeing some real people with real issues with Speeding. It's a revenue gainer, nothing more. Anyone who says stay under the speed limit and you won't get done is clearly living in cloud cuckoo land. As Finchie has just said they hide camers, they hide signs and they gain money from doing it. Thats the only reason they are there.

Re: Speed Vans - rob (5th Oct 2005 - 22:02:02) Yeah, S, they're just out to get you. One of the good things about being an unreal person living in cloud cuckoo land is that you don't have to suffer from paranoia. But then we don't get the satisfaction of believing we've carried forward an argument by repeating insultingly what we said in the first place. So, yes, we're the suckers. Cuckoo.

Re: Speed Vans - S (6th Oct 2005 - 11:21:31) Rob, are you all for the council tax increase too? Why should they make any more money of us though? They get enough already and motorists are an easy traget. Sorry if you thought that last post was an insult it wasn't really supposed to be. Lost in my translation I guess.

Re: Speed Vans - Alex Smith (27th Oct 2005 - 18:15:20) I have been rather busy over the past couple of weeks or so and have had no time for ''community talk'', but was astonished to see of 19 replies. I understnad the consequences, and have coughed up my £60, and got a fantastic 3 points on my liscense. Don't get me wrong, I am for speed limits, just when the police claim they are preventions, but then situate their spots, in areas where moterists are more than likley caught before even seeing the vehicle is quite clearly not doing what their statment is... So how does that work? I'm sorry for any upset this issue may have caused. Alex

Re: Speed Vans - Finchie (28th Oct 2005 - 23:42:00) A couple of Sundays ago a speed trap was placed Northbound on the A3, north of the Hindhead Lights, hidden behind a bush at the Thursley Slip road. Quite handily positioned at the start of the dual carriageway on the downhill. Good place to catch those drifting over 70mph. I have never seen or heard of an accident there. However, forget the fact that just a few miles before is the most dangerous section of single carriageway road, with regular accidents, and a number of deaths over the last few years. 50mph limits in places (i.e. cars passing each other at 100mph within feet of each other - and inches when an "artic" is involved). Tell me that is not wrong, is farcical, etc. To me it just a clear demonstration that the police do not give a stuff about safety - just want to get revenue. Roll on the tunnel. Cheers, Finchie

Re: Speed Vans - Alex Smith (1st Nov 2005 - 17:49:12) Certainly, roll on the tunnel! I can't wait, it should definatley solve congestions. Alex

Re: Speed Vans - A (3rd Nov 2005 - 12:55:24) But will it improve your spelling, Alex?.

Re: Speed Vans - Alex Cameron (3rd Nov 2005 - 18:01:49) *lmao* couldn't have said it better myself. It was missing "and your utterly revolting manner" at the end though.

Re: Speed Vans - Steve Read (3rd Nov 2005 - 19:27:34) Hey folks we got it all wrong, they are out there tackling other crime problems. This weeks Herald. Carnival Night. Co-Op Headley Rd. "A block of cheese and a pork pie were stolen PC James Noble said a suspect has been identified and the crime is under investigation." Thank our lucky stars then this individual is being pursued we wouldn't want him running amok through the village. Just off to get a 5 lever security padlock for my fridge.

Re: Speed Vans - rob (5th Nov 2005 - 10:15:31) I parked in the car park at Petersfield last weekend. I didn't buy a parking ticket. When I got back to my car, I found I'd been slapped with a £20 penalty for goodness sake. It's clear to me that this is absolutely nothing to do with road safety. It's all about revenue raising.

Re: Speed Vans - Alex Cameron (7th Nov 2005 - 09:33:28) Rob - When you park in those types of places, you need to buy a ticket. As you didn't, that's why you got a penalty.

Re: Speed Vans - S (7th Nov 2005 - 10:41:48) Unless it's a Sunday Rob then you can park for free. Rob seeings as you are so keen to boost the government coffers you will pleased to hear the new council tax plans for next year. If you live in areas where there is a lot of countryside and views you will be subject to a view tax which will increase your council tax a lot. This is already deployed in the States and Lionel Blair and his team are looking to put it in here for next year. Seems fair, don't you think? The countryside does belong to the country and governement after all.

Re: Speed Vans - Eneida (7th Nov 2005 - 11:19:18) I've been reading about this proposed new tax too. Apparently it will also apply if you have a view of the SEA!! and since we live on an island.....

Re: Speed Vans - Paul Robinson (7th Nov 2005 - 17:25:40) If the government plans to tax us for the quality of the view we enjoy from our property then I think that I am due a rebate for the view I get from the from of my house!

Re: Speed Vans - rob (7th Nov 2005 - 22:47:42) Surely one can get a hefty discount for looking out on a blue transit van?

Re: Speed Vans - S (8th Nov 2005 - 12:19:51) I think it's done by location Rob/Paul not personal circumstance. Still nice try though.

Re: Speed Vans - John Stone (18th Nov 2005 - 12:27:31) Always a hot topic this one, mobile speed camera's. I hate the damn things. They force you to keep an eye on your speedo instead of on the road. Not a safe way of driving if you ask me. To Alex Smith: I know the speed limit you are reffering to. The 40mph limit could have only been introduced for three reasons, the T junction, the petrol station and the entrance to the farmers market. It's not a built up area, no chance of any pedestrians or is anywhere near a school, so why is it a 40mph limit? Plus it is situated at the start of a hill heading down to the traffic lights which is when a vehicle will naturally speed up due to gravity. True, in 'some' cases the introduction of speed cameras have saved lives, but more often than not they are there to raise revenue, not speed limit awareness. Two things you need to consider before paying up, and I believe I am right in saying this: 1)Were there any speed camera warning signs? If not then the police can not legally fine you for speeding. 2)Did the speed limit signs have a yellow background? If they did then they are not official signs as set down by the High Way Code and therefore not legal. You can not be fined for speeding. I noticed there is a lot of these yellow backed signs in and around the Liphook, Borden areas and they are all unofficial signs, not law abiding! If either of these is true in you case Alex it may be worth contesting the speeding fine, but please do confirm what I have said. I am farily certain about the first one, but know for a fact about the second. All the best to all and drive carefully. John.

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