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Should we scrap the N.H.S. for a better local and national health care system? - paul (2nd Jan 2023 - 13:26:58) Hi, Sadly politicians don't have the "balls" to the electorate, and taxpayers, that the N.H.S. is broken beyond repair, and not fit for purpose in the 21st century, when it was launched in 1948. There are many reasons for it's demise. It was proudly admired across the world, that the best thing this country had ever done for it's peoples. Government funding (to a bottomless poorly managed pit), Staff retention and recruitment, pay and working conditions etc. All add to low morale amongst dedicated staff They also experience a "blame culture" if something goes wrong, from top to bottom employees. Would it not be better for every new working adult from say 20 plus to pay a small tax for top class healthcare. This would be like private hospitals provide to others in our country. Yes I know workers pay National insurance towards medical needs, but it is not working. The best investment in long term health and a longer living society is medical, without it, we have nothing to protect our families for the future.

Re: Should we scrap the N.H.S. for a better local and national health care system? - passfield resident (2nd Jan 2023 - 14:53:26) It's not broken beyond repair. In most cases it provides excellent treatment. We already pax taxes for a service that needs a decent level of funding and the social care situation improved so that thousands of people aren't occupying hospital beds when they would be better off being looked after at home.

Re: Should we scrap the N.H.S. for a better local and national health care system? - Gemma (2nd Jan 2023 - 16:22:16) Paul - why just new young workers to fund your crackpot idea when it is the ageing population that is mostly responsible for clogging up the system (we live too long these days) and, in the main, have the most disposable income?

Re: Should we scrap the N.H.S. for a better local and national health care system? - Sue (3rd Jan 2023 - 11:46:38) There are major factors that have brought OUR NHS to well below its knees: Aging population, swollen population, backdoor privatisation.... Not enough discussed are the middle management (one hand not knowing what the other is doing, miscommunication), Woke appointments (D&I budgets and expectations) and recreational spurious prescriptions (e.g. free heating and gender experimentation). Those free handouts have to be paid by some money, let that money be used with much more care and respect to those few who are paying for it. Fine those who abuse the system (missed appointments, nuisance appointments, prescription misuse, etc). Consider reduced help to those who chose not to help themselves. Personal responsibility is nothing to be ashamed of.

Re: Should we scrap the N.H.S. for a better local and national health care system? - Pete (3rd Jan 2023 - 13:08:50) The only reason the NHS is not working is the lack of will by this government to make it work. They have been slowly but surely trying to break the NHS so it is more acceptable to the general public to privatise it. The saddest thing is it would seem as a nation we are just about thick enough or don't care enough [I'm alright Jack] to stop this from happening.

Re: Should we scrap the N.H.S. for a better local and national health care system? - Sue (3rd Jan 2023 - 18:07:38) Peter, Seems to me that what you refer to as 'lack of will by this government' really means more taxpayers money dumped onto the NHS, whether the payers agree with it or not. If our Gov is indeed as you simplistically suggest, the only reason why the NHS is broken, then we should than this Gov for trying to stop public money waste on a mismanaged bottomless pit that does NOT deliver. The NHS had plenty near-death crisis before, lost opportunities to optimise and end waste inside the NHS. Over and over again the NHS failed to get its act together. Let it die before it kills the rest of us through: medical failure, managerial failure, bleeding us empty through taxation.

Re: Should we scrap the N.H.S. for a better local and national health care system? - Pete (4th Jan 2023 - 07:30:49) Sue- You just don't get it do you, this is planned. If the money spent [Billions] sending NHS patients to private hospitals and hiring in agency staff were invested into the NHS itself this would not be happening. It is not a bottomless pit it is purposely being ripped apart by a government that really doesn't care about you or me just their warped selfish ideas.

Re: Should we scrap the N.H.S. for a better local and national health care system? - Penny Williamson (4th Jan 2023 - 12:42:01) Pete In a previous Thread namely The Labour Party you made a statement about the Government selling the family silver for personal gain. (Actually it was Gordon Brown the then Labour Party Chancellor who sold off a proportion of our gold reserves having advertised the fact beforehand that he was going to do it and consequently they sold for a much lower price.) I asked you twice what did you meant by your remark “selling the family silver”. You did not reply. Now in this Thread you state that the Government is PURPOSELY ripping the NHS apart. I don’t personally believe this and take issue with the word “purposely.” So I am asking you politely as to why you think any government would try, on purpose, to ruin the NHS and what would be the point. Perhaps this time you would be kind enough to answer the question. Thank you.

Re: Should we scrap the N.H.S. for a better local and national health care system? - Pete (4th Jan 2023 - 14:52:15) Sorry Penny I get bored easily. By family silver I mean state owned industries that have been privatised. You may not believe it but many top table Conservatives stretching over many parliaments have made no secret of their opposition to the NHS. The only reason it has survived this long is due to public opinion being on its side, unfortunately because of its running down this is no longer a given. As soon as opinion swings enough that will be it no more national health service. Sorry but if you cant see the systematic stealth dismantling of the NHS then I can't help you.

Re: Should we scrap the N.H.S. for a better local and national health care system? - Penny Williamson (4th Jan 2023 - 15:19:23) Pete Perhaps you can help me by being more specific about the MP's who have and still are opposed to the NHS. Names please of these MPs and remember people who get bored easily are usually the boring. They like the sound of their own voices but do not like listening to others.

Re: Should we scrap the N.H.S. for a better local and national health care system? - passfield resident (4th Jan 2023 - 15:56:00) Penny-there are a number of Conservative MPs who have publicly suggested that the NHS as it exists now should be replaced by US style health insurance. The government at the moment knows this would be unacceptable to the electorate, but the Conservative party is split on this and other issues at the moment and we need to be aware that many of them do think the state should do less in all sorts of ways.

Re: Should we scrap the N.H.S. for a better local and national health care system? - Penny Williamson (4th Jan 2023 - 16:47:50) @Passfield Resident It is so easy just to say that "there are a number of Conservative MPs who have publicly suggested etc etc" but could you provide specific names. All to often people make statements and quote figures but never back them up with specifics. Could you also elaborate on your statement "Conservative party is split on this and other issues at the moment and we need to be aware that many of them do think the state should do less in all sorts of ways." More details on "other issues" and ways the state should do less. Thank you.

Re: Should we scrap the N.H.S. for a better local and national health care system? - passfield resident (4th Jan 2023 - 17:30:38) Penny- Kwasi Kwarteng, Jeremy Hunt, David Gauke, Douglas Carswell, Michael Gove, Greg Clark. Enough for you?

Re: Should we scrap the N.H.S. for a better local and national health care system? - Malcolm (4th Jan 2023 - 17:49:16) Penny don’t rise to the bait. We have several posters that just post and then disagree with everyone just to cause an argument. Paul Passfied resident, Sam and others come on threads and disagree just to wind people up I think they are possibly teenagers having fun .

Re: Should we scrap the N.H.S. for a better local and national health care system? - passfield resident (4th Jan 2023 - 21:47:19) Malcolm-Incredibly imaginative way to dismiss the views of people you don't agree with-can you assure me that the MPs I mentioned have never publicly supported the privatisation of the health service? Perhaps you'd like to do some research on how many Tory MPs are earning money from their links with private health companies and then come back to me. I wish I was a teenager still, but I'm old enough to have teenage grandchildren , I'm afraid.

Re: Should we scrap the N.H.S. for a better local and national health care system? - Pete (5th Jan 2023 - 11:13:45) Penny - Not a personal insult but when a thread goes on and on with the same points over and over I tend to switch off. Wouldn't class myself as boring but would have to check with my wife. Looks like some fellow posters have come up with the goods ref MPs publicly stating their opposition to the NHS so I wont go over the same ground or I may end up switching off on myself.

Re: Should we scrap the N.H.S. for a better local and national health care system? - Penny Williamson (6th Jan 2023 - 14:25:41) Pete I can find no evidence to support Passfield Resident's statement that Kwasi Kwarteng, Jeremy Hunt, David Gauke, Michael Gove and Greg Clark have suggested that they would like to see the NHS destroyed/dismantled. Douglas Carswell is no longer an MP, but the same applies.

Re: Should we scrap the N.H.S. for a better local and national health care system? - passfield resident (6th Jan 2023 - 15:04:10) Penny-find and read a copy of a publication called Direct Democracy An Agenda For A New Model Party, co-authored by the people I mentioned (if you can be bothered or you want to even consider views contradictory to your own). Tory MPs who favour the continuing privatisation of the health service are keeping quiet about it at the moment because they know it isn't popular with the electorate. After the next election it's entirely possible some of the right will split from the Conservative Party and become more honest about their views. Also, did you not notice Liz Truss conspicuously failing to guarantee the future of the NHS in her short time as PM? Finally, do some research into Tory MPs making money from private health providers. It's quite a long list. Don't ask me to name them- researching it yourself will open your eyes. Or perhaps you think the party that elected Boris and Liz Truss are fit to run the country.

Re: Should we scrap the N.H.S. for a better local and national health care system? - Ben dover (6th Jan 2023 - 15:38:51) Yes paul! Then I feel we should stab the fireman, shoot the police and descend into total and glorious anarchy!

Re: Should we scrap the N.H.S. for a better local and national health care system? - Penny Williamson (6th Jan 2023 - 16:08:29) Passfield Resident You don't have to be rude eg your statement "(if you can be bothered or you want to even consider views contradictory to your own)." I find that when people degenerate into being insulting even if it is obliquely they feel they are losing the argument. However that said I will indeed endeavour to obtain a copy of Direct Democracy and read it. Thank you.

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