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Pony and Trap racing in training? - paul (7th Aug 2011 - 20:04:23) Hi, Is Pony and Trap racing in next year's Olympics? There seems alot of riding going on around the streets of Liphook this summer. Any ideas?

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Jane G (7th Aug 2011 - 21:00:13) Hmmm...noticed the same myself! Incidentally is it legal for children to be in control of a pony and trap on a public road?

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - lily (8th Aug 2011 - 07:57:10) I am not entirely sure, but I always thought that a pony/horse/donkey had more right legally to be on the road than any other vehicle. The reason being, they were used way way before any motorised vehicle. I could be wrong though. As for kids being in charge, I really have no idea if thats legal, but I do suspect one probably does not have to produce a "drivers licence". Just a thought, perhaps one of the regulars on here might find a site which details the issue, I would be very interested to know the exact law on this. :)

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - helen (8th Aug 2011 - 10:30:32) For those interested there is a law relating to animals 1971 there is some evidence that the owners of the horse/pony will be liable for any damage to other road users if the animal has found to have caused the accident. AS regards to age of driver the pony and trap is obviously a vehicle on the road like any other, but I would think that is a question for either the highway code or alton police station.!

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - liz (8th Aug 2011 - 13:14:13) I cannot find any reference to a minimum age but if it is the same pony and trap I have seen going through the village it is going far to fast - a flat out extended trot with the pony sometimes breaking into a canter. This is very bad for the pony's legs - not to mention the danger to the passengers and other road users on busy roads.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Richard (8th Aug 2011 - 17:49:26) It may be ill advised, but personally I like it, as it strikes me as being a very summery type of pastime, and if it slows down the traffic in the village, gets people to notice what is around them, is it a bad thing?

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - liz (9th Aug 2011 - 09:18:59) It is a bad thing because of the potential danger to the passengers, pony and third parties. I agree it's nice to see a pony and trap being driven through the village but this one is being driven recklessly.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - helen (9th Aug 2011 - 10:27:37) I agree as they are on main roads it is dangerous to be driving these things at high speeds, there is a law I believe reckless driving which would probably cover any form of transport, whether or not the driver is old enough to be prosecuted is another matter!

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - sarah (11th Aug 2011 - 11:22:42) people that have got a problem are very sad.I see the children all the time driving through liphook and recently spoke to them and they are polite and the horse is absloutly beautiful.It is not the kids on the horse and cart that are the problem it is the people that speed through liphook.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - liz (11th Aug 2011 - 11:59:49) I'm sure the kids and pony are very nice and I would like them all to stay that way. The pony (on the several occasions I have seen it) is being far too fast on tarmaced roads both for its own health and for the safety of its passengers.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - john (11th Aug 2011 - 13:04:23) i am the owner of the horse and i think its very sad that people have brought up the subject the horse only does 10 mph i can go faster on bike

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Richard (11th Aug 2011 - 20:41:47) A lot of talk about the horse being slow or fast, but assuming dry roads, and a correctly shod horse, does anyone know of any definitve evidence as the speed a horse should achieve, and not exceed when pulling a trap etc. Hearsay is not sufficient as thus far, it seems it comes under "too fast", and we don't what speed the horse is going, and what it should adhere to. Someone must have definitve proof to enlighten us all...?

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Sarah (11th Aug 2011 - 22:18:11) Sorry but 10mph or not - I have seen the horse pelting down Midhurst rd, Haslemere rd, Station rd and Longmoor rd on several occasions; nice as it is to see a pony and trap on the road, it is going WAY too fast. I've also seen a child alongside it on a pony (not sure if there was actually a saddle on the pony either) on Haslemere rd - this is SO dangerous! Thoroughly irresponsible for both yourself, your children and other vehicles on the road.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - liz (12th Aug 2011 - 08:22:36) Richard and John At a fast trot a horse puts two feet down one diagonal then two feet down on the other. At a canter the horse put one rear foot down then two on the opposite diagonal then the other front foot. The upshot of this is that all the horse's weight is at times on one foot. I've not explained this very well but what it means is that you do not canter a horse on very hard ground such as tarmac because of the potential damage to its legs. There is less pressure on the legs at the trot but a very very fast trot on a very hard surface for sustained periods is not good for the legs either. This is known to all (well most!) horse owners and if you don't understand it is because I haven't explained this very well.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Concerned (12th Aug 2011 - 08:58:08) I do believe the horse and cart were in a near collision about a week ago. The trap is fairly lightweight so could turnover, especially when the children swap seats while moving at speed !! I

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - john (12th Aug 2011 - 10:47:46) are we on about the black cob or the other one

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Concerned (12th Aug 2011 - 14:44:06) How many pony and traps with young kids driving are there then ? The black cob is being driven far too fast on the local roads.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - john webb (12th Aug 2011 - 18:54:58) i cant see a problem with any of the horses around the area as there is a 30 mph speed limit on the roads and these horses are not capable of trotting at that speed. Hence no issue. Also as for causing injuries to the horses legs, if this was a concern to the horses how did people get by years ago when this was the only form of transpor?? I would rather see a horse and cart doing 10mp in the village with children enjoying themselves keeping out of trouble than idiots driving 50mph through the village with no concern to local residents.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Jay (12th Aug 2011 - 19:12:16) I did see them coming down the Headley Road on Thursday at a fair speed although it is difficult to judge. Having said that, they were holding up the cars behind them and as another poster has said, that's a good thing because the majority speed anyway! 2 young children in the trap - they seemed to be driving (?) it well but would they have the strength to avert a serious accident if the horse decided to bolt for any reason?

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - may (13th Aug 2011 - 02:02:00) These kids know what they are doing, so dont pretend to worry yourselves any longer, after all most kids walk home from school at the age of five alone and they also ride bikes at a very young age and on the pavement, IS THIS OK ?

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - helen (13th Aug 2011 - 09:53:08) In answer to the owner of the horse, when horse was the only form of transport the roads were not tarmaced they were on soft surfaces and I doubt if they were were looking terrified by all the traffic, as these ponies are. The speed limit around hill house bend is 40 which is where I saw them. The previous poster is right, if the pony and trap were in difficulty 2 children do not have the strength to avert an accident. Is it not selfish to use animals like this, obviously prepartions for pony and trap racing?

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Concerned (13th Aug 2011 - 11:14:56) To May Just because you think the kids are capable does not make it right. They are far too young to be driving at those speeds on the road. You would not let them drive a car,.. or maybe you would. Just because they are from a Gypsy family does not give them the right. If some one ends up in an accident with them it will be awful.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - may (13th Aug 2011 - 12:34:49) concerned First how do you know that they are gypsy children, have they got a tattoo on their head? it is perfectly legal for children to ride horses, bikes, super scoopers, roller skates etc etc. And no I dont beleive children should drive cars but then nore should a lot of adults, and I dont really understand your point, the only issue seems to be that a few busy bodies who apparantly know the law on just about everything CLAIM that they have seen it driven at speed

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - may (13th Aug 2011 - 12:51:08) concerned Thinking about your comments, it seems we have finaly arrived at the real reason for your concern, why do you distinguish between people? Children are also in danger and a danger to others on bikes, they also ride these at speed and on the pavement sometimes, OH, I almost forgot the majority are not gypsy children so therefor it is perfectly ok for them

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Jay (13th Aug 2011 - 13:03:52) Dear may I was not "pretending" any concern - my concern was genuine and it was not just for the children or the horse but for other people using the pavements and roads around Liphook. As for your comment about children walking home from schol on their own at the age of 5 - I don't see much evidence of that and Iwould have thought largely irrelevant to this thread but, no, I would certainly not condone that either. Having said that, the child is unlikely to cause harm to anyone else (unlike the pony and trap) and if the parent thinks its ok, then that is their choice and they are the ones who will have to live with it if something happens. You mention children riding bikes on pavements - not ideal I agree but the roads aren't safe for the young ones. Again, why people ar raising concern about the pony and trap with children in control. My youngsters rode bikes on the pavements WITH a parent in attendance and stopping if pedestrians came the other way. Again, the children in the pony and trap do not have an adult in attendance and my question was whether they had the physical strength to deal with an emergency should it arise. The fact that they are expert drivers of the trap was not in question.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Diana (13th Aug 2011 - 13:18:01) If the owner has insurance to drive the pony and trap on the public highway and also has insurance for the children to drive the pony and trap on the public highway, then should an accident occure there would not be a problem. I dont think children can get insurance to drive cars on the public highway.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - jennie (13th Aug 2011 - 14:47:07) just a note of interest children at the age of 5 are actually not released from class until the teacher has seen the appropriate adult who is designated to pick him/her up so no 5 year old from liphook infants should be seen walking home from school alone

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - helen (13th Aug 2011 - 16:03:06) I imagine as the legal age limit for driving is 18 and we all know how much insurance is for teenage drivers on their own, it would prove impossible to get insurance for children aged roughly 11 and 8 I may be wrong, riding a pony and trap on the highway, i will check, also a phone call to the police could clarify the situation. Also do not forget, that if your child is out riding a bicycle on the road, what insurance cover is there? All it needs is one driver behind who thinks everyone should be driving on the legal speed limit to be behind the pony flashing and tailgating for there to be an accident

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Concerned (13th Aug 2011 - 16:26:49) I very much doubt that there is insurance, and if these children are hit by a car I dread to think of the ramifications. It has nothing to do with who they are , just the attitude of the people allowing them to do it.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - irene (13th Aug 2011 - 17:29:39) Agree with may and why dont all you people in liphook get a lifeI

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Jay (13th Aug 2011 - 21:56:23) Love it - the ads showing at the bottom of this thread were :- "Fast Pony Payday Loans" and "Junior Supercar Driving - children can drive on track Ferrari". Well it tickled me anyway!

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - liz (14th Aug 2011 - 13:38:08) Irene Why do you agree with May when she seems to have no idea about the potential hazards to the horse to the occupants of the trap? Also those who think that as long as the horse is doing less than the legal speed limit then its OK certainly need a reality check!

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - may (14th Aug 2011 - 18:04:17) Liz I dont think that you have any idea either, I think you are exaggerating the whole thing.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Jordan (14th Aug 2011 - 22:52:40) I have seen many children driving their horses/pony's and traps and it is a growing interest for young people. The skill and knowledge required to keep and drive these animals is expansive and I will say to see children who have learnt these skills warms me. Unlike the children of today who spend their lives either sat at a computer screen or hanging out in Sainsburys car park these children spend most of their time caring for, learning and working with their animals, teaching them patience and responsibilities. With regard to the worry it appears to be causing, the children in question who drive through Liphook, would find it near impossible for their pony to do anywhere close to the speed limit let alone 10 miles an hour. Do bear in mind speed generally looks faster than it really is.The boys are extremely polite and to my knowledge have caused no problems so far, other than to slow down those who spend their lives at 100 miles an hour. To those who feel it is right to shout abuse to these young men, may be you should take a look at yourselves and worry about your own lives.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - may (15th Aug 2011 - 07:17:42) To Jorden WELL SAID

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - liz (15th Aug 2011 - 09:10:08) Jorden and May I know how to drive a pony and trap and I was properly taught. No-one is saying that it is not a good pastime but the pony and trap I have seen going through the village has been travelling far too fast on a busy tarmaced road. Being in charge of any vehicle implies an element of responsibility - you cannot just 'do as you like'. However you obviously do not agree so you will be delighted to hear there will be no more comment from me!

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Concerned (15th Aug 2011 - 10:53:46) In certain parts of the community there has an upsurge of driving pony and traps, and they do start young. It still does not make it right driving around the village, with the potential to cause an accident. The parents do not follow them around so do not know how fast they are going. Most of Liphook has seen them by now. Do these children go to school as well as learning "skills" of a certain nature. Jordan , judging by your post you seem to know these children personally, maybe related ? Many people have and keep horses round here and do find the actions of the those allowing them to do this irresponsible.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - may (15th Aug 2011 - 11:53:18) Liz and Conncerned Do you think that you are the only person who has been properly taught, these kids have probably been around horses all their life and I suspect know far more than you, and as for conncerned why do you assume that Jordan knows these children just because he does not agree with you

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Simon Coyte (15th Aug 2011 - 12:37:56) Oh for pitys sake! People have been training trotting ponys around Liphook for years, and I cant remember any having an accident. If they are breaking any laws let the authorities deal with it! There must be more interesting things to worry about Simon

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - may (15th Aug 2011 - 13:34:41) Simon Sanity at last

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Concerned (15th Aug 2011 - 13:57:28) Simon on occasion the families have trotted ponies , going back 40 , 50 years or more Can you not remember the lack of cars in Liphook,? Things were so much quieter then. The risk is just too great now, for them to be driving traps here. Most people know of the families that do this, and they are being the irresponsible ones. By all means trot ponies but Liphook has become a far too greater risk for this. Long gone is the old Liphook.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - may (15th Aug 2011 - 14:19:21) Concerned While we are at it lets try to put a stop to kids on bikes and scooters, they are a danger too, more so I believe, by the way do you have kids?do they ride their bikes unsupervised? Or does anyone elses kids who have objected to these children, the sheer number of children on bikes make it more of a danger, and they probabley go faster then the pony.People who live in glass houses shouldnt throw stones

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Simon Coyte (15th Aug 2011 - 14:21:53) Concerned I can remember before we had a by pass all the traffic came through the Village. The standard of driving may have deteriated since those days as every body seems to want to live life flat out if the speed limits and the highway code are observed we would all be better off. Simon

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - jordan (15th Aug 2011 - 15:04:53) I have to say Simon you are bang on. To the person who assumes I am a family member just because I don\'t agree with their point. Actually no I am not and no I don\'t know the children.Maybe your real problem is with the gypsy community and the convenience of the horse and pony issue is an excuse for a dig. If this is the case maybe you should take it up with them? If no one can Come up with any legality should there be any then surely there are more pressing things to talk about.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - may (15th Aug 2011 - 15:38:06) Jordon I couldnt agree with you more, you have hit the nail right on the head

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Michael (15th Aug 2011 - 15:50:48) NEWS FLASH Death of pony and trap driver in Hampshire!!!!!! Sorry what were you saying Man dies after horse bolts with trap in Hampshire

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Concerned (15th Aug 2011 - 16:25:41) Well there we go, maybe not so short sighted then?

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - helen (15th Aug 2011 - 18:23:59) The point about children on bikes is valid but no children have I have seen out on bikes on the main busy road without helmets in charge of something more powerful than them. A pony has the potential to react unexpectedly- on a pushbike a child is one is usually in control and usually with headgear. We are a village no longer, cars are faster, people are more impatient to get home, or with limited time if working.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - may (15th Aug 2011 - 18:52:47) There are far more fatalities involving cars and bikes throughout the country. I agree this accident is tragic but accidents happen .If we all thought like that none of us would get out of bed in the morning. Still hasnt changed my opinion

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - dee (15th Aug 2011 - 19:56:09) to everyone in this subject if you actually take note of the law then horses and ponies have more right on the main roads then any car ,regardless of who is controlling the horse . so why should horses and owners be discriminated against , any car not giving horses time and space are the ones actually breaking the law

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Jordan (15th Aug 2011 - 20:39:56) Michael..very unfortunate, but not the children in question.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Concerned (15th Aug 2011 - 20:53:25) I don't think the issue is about horses on the road. We see plenty of horse riders round here. Most walk if they have to get on the highway. The issue is of irresponsible driving of pony and traps in an area not really suitable for this.Even old Prince Philip has to drive on a proper course to do this.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - lily (15th Aug 2011 - 23:46:07) Dee That is exactly what I thought, they have been on the road longer, and to the opposition, whether it be Liphook, or London, they have a right to be on the road, and it is the duty of the person in charge of the motorised vehicle that needs to consider this, and the potential dangers of a trap being driven. I think most motorists have consideration when they see hackers etc so why not show the same consideration and patience for a horse and trap?If the problem lies with impatient busy people then perhaps they should, as responsible members of the community, consider taking an extended driving course to teach them how to deal with any hazards they may encounter?We are after all in the country and what a shame it would be to never see such a sight of the old pony and trap again? As for kids on their bikes, forget that, that is bad enough, but what is even worse is children of toddler age running far in front of their parents, also on scooters, at school run time. I for one have been very nervous of kids going so fast and NOT in control that I cannot condone the use of the scooters.This is far more dangerous in my eyes. Perhaps the every day things dont enter our heads, but if we went statistically, Id wager that pony/horse and trap is not big on the danger list.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - FK teen (16th Aug 2011 - 00:50:49) I am a student at bohunt secondary school maybe slighty nieve but this is my view, I agree with Jordan, there are to many of us teens/kids are sitting around playing computer games or hanging out by sainsbury's, I personaly am one of the teens/kids that play on computer games. I am not one of the teens/kids that hang around sainsbury's, my parents would not allow that. I do regular sports golf, football, tennis etc. and i would love to add pony and trap on my CV! How wonderful and why can't we encourage this as a sport, in appropriate arenas? As for you Micheal, Helen and concerned (gennarally to all of you) there may have been incedents where children are supervised on bikes but i see the majoraty of them with other friends on their skooters riding carelessly without supervision and yes i am not saying there haven't been deaths and accidents on horse and trap, but, let me ask you this question, how many accidents and deaths have there been on bikes (motor, scooters etc.)? Personally, as I have been walking to and from school I have seen lots of junior school kids beheaving silly, pushing eachother. Is this not a risk to drivers who might run them over accidently because of their silly beheaviour and parent negelct!!?

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - sarah jane (16th Aug 2011 - 00:59:14) the olny hazards though the village are those who pass to close to the horse and cart those who speed past them and those who wined down there car window and shout abouse at them THEY ARE KIDS.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - anon (17th Aug 2011 - 00:24:29) It seems a lot of people have gone off subject, people were complaining about the speed they were going. If its legal for a child to ride it then thats fine. As long as they drive/ride it in a safe way and not as fast as they have been going!

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Char (17th Aug 2011 - 04:38:40) I find this all very ridiculous. It maybe that kids are driving a trap but kids are in charge of horses under saddle on the main road every day. Have none of you passed a horse that is trotting with a child on it's back? Maybe they should be stopped also? It does seem that this is really an argument about a race of people and it is a way of stopping that race of people by bigotted ideas and small minds. Would any of you call the police because a child was on a horses back trotting through Liphook? Of course accidents happen with horses....but not just horses in trap's! If you are going to put a point up...maybe you should think your reasoning through..then maybe it won't look like down right racist abuse which in reality this is!

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - liz (17th Aug 2011 - 09:07:00) I said I wouldn't reply to this thread again but I'm sorry Char your comments are absolute nonsense. As I've said before no-one objects to a pony and trap being driven sensibly through the village or anywhere else. The point is that to drive a horse too fast on tarmac (as I have seen) is reckless. It is a slippery surface for a shod horse as all riders know. You may be able to drive fast but you certainly won't be able to stop quickly. Every rider also knows that you do not canter a horse on very hard ground (e.g. tarmac) it is vey bad for their legs. To gang up on people who are concerned for the safety of the horse and the occupants of the trap and accuse them of racism (what race?) just beggars belief.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - may (17th Aug 2011 - 11:14:18) Liz if you have read this thread properly you should know what race Char is talking about., I find it hard to believe that the pony in question canters through the village, exaggeration springs to mind

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Char (17th Aug 2011 - 12:44:51) Liz, It is not nonsense, I see people riding horses at a flat out trot everyday, note the word 'riding'. My comment would be nonsense if you had complained about children riding horses to fast as well has pony and traps...or children riding bikes to fast...or children riding scooters to fast...but of course it would be nonsense then because you would have included all groups of children who do activities to fast!!! It is however nonsense to include one lot of children doing one type of activity from one ethnic background...because that stinks of racism! It is not just racism but also biggoted...and these comments are done for a reason! To stop the development at Devils lane!

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - may (17th Aug 2011 - 13:05:36) Liz I did not think of that but yes you right, the reason some people are making a big thing about the pony and trap probably is to do with devils lane, and I agree it is very racist and bigoted

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - liz (17th Aug 2011 - 13:46:22) May I think it is Char you agree with and not me. To reply to her thread, if I saw children riding bicycles or horses too fast through the village I would be concerned. If I saw children riding scooters through the village I would be very concerned indeed!! All I have seen is different people, of different ages trotting horses far too fast for the safety of all concerned. I have know idea whether these people know each other or where they live and nor do I care. What I did see the other day was a young man driving a pony and trap though the village at a reasonable pace (trot!) and with extreme skill. If only that were always the case.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - liz (17th Aug 2011 - 13:50:38) May I have seen a pony pulling a trap at a canter in the village. Only a few strides admittedly but implies a far too fast pace for 'The Square' (which is where it was).

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - may (17th Aug 2011 - 14:19:55) Liz I dont know what planet you are on but children go through the village on their bikes and scooters unsupervised and at speed evey day. As for the pony breaking into a canter in the square I fail to see how, there are two roundabouts in the square and as you must know a pony has to build up to a certain speed before it goes into a canter, there is not enough room in the square to do this, unless of course all trafic was stopped to allow them a clear run

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - liz (17th Aug 2011 - 15:07:42) The pony came belting round the first roundabout (Lloyds Bank) heading south and had hit a canter by the time it was outside the Anchor. Perhaps you understand now why I think this is so dangerous.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - may (17th Aug 2011 - 16:02:29) Liz Then what did it do at the next roundabout

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - liz (17th Aug 2011 - 17:58:26) Luckily no traffic and trotted fast across.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - dee (17th Aug 2011 - 20:03:04) how many pony and traps have been coming through liphook then ?

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - liz (18th Aug 2011 - 07:39:37) I have seen three different ponies (on different occasions!)Whether its the same trap I have no idea.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - may (18th Aug 2011 - 11:46:28) Liz It would be a rare thing indeed if there was no traffic on the roundabout so I cant really believe that that happened

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - liz (18th Aug 2011 - 12:43:53) There was no traffic on the roundbout as it had stopped when drivers saw the horse approaching. I should have thought that was obvious. Hopefully it is now set out in enough detail and simpy enough for you to understand and my 'grilling' is now complete. Quite frankly whether you believe me or not is of absolutely no consequence.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - may (18th Aug 2011 - 13:29:00) lIZ We will have to just agree to disagree

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - may (18th Aug 2011 - 13:47:22) Liz Also by the way you described it, I think the pony was heading north and not south

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - liz (18th Aug 2011 - 14:55:05) I know what I saw and you evidently weren't there. However you are quite right the pony was going north, apologies for that.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - may (18th Aug 2011 - 18:57:22) Liz ok

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Concerned (19th Aug 2011 - 11:25:30) I think that some people using these threads are doing so to put across their pro "Gypsy" opinions, whether they believe they have behaved rightly OR wrongly, and no I am not being racist or abusive by saying that ! It has shown intimidation to those people that voice their own legitimate points of view.There does seem to be an agenda here that I have noticed on a few topics. Anyone that does not agree with them has unpleasant replies. It will put people off from posting, and that does appear to be the reason to their vigilance and answering to the posts. Everyone has a right to their opinions whether for or against the topics brought up. I suggest if you can not be civil, don't post !

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - dee (19th Aug 2011 - 12:35:41) concerned - you were the one that made this topic about gypsies, it all started off about kids driving ponies and traps through the villiage. and my opinion is that you included there is a lot of racist people in liphook.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - may (19th Aug 2011 - 17:13:51) concerned If you look back through this thread I think you will find it was you who suggested that they are gypsies, I am neither pro nor anti anybody, I believe all people are equal, you on the other hand seem to be very anti. The thread is about a pony and trap, and not about the ethnic group of the person driving it, that has never been an issue until you made it one, I also am allowed my opinion , which means that I dont have to agree with every one, as is quite obvious not every one agrees with you either, have you never heard of a thing called "debate" I think you will find it involves opposing views!

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - helen (19th Aug 2011 - 17:37:57) I agree someone's ethnicity is not the issue it is the actual subject matter. I happen to also have been behind the pony and trap going through the roundabouts in Liphook, and this time it was an adult driving, I think everyone gave more space to allow the pony through, on this occasion it was not going too fast, I also saw the children in a pony and trap, not in the roundabouts, and yes I do think they were going too fast, it is a main road not a country lane. Yes the horse has a right to be on the road but the laws for horses were established when traffic was virtually nil, and no cars were around and no tarmac.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - may (19th Aug 2011 - 21:19:53) Lizes description of events doesnt quite add up, think about it, the pony belts around the first roundabout, hits a canter at the anchor, then trots across the second roundabout, first in lizes words "thankfuly ther was no traffic " at the second rounabout, then her second version was that the traffic had all stopped to give the pony right of way, which is it, no traffic or traffic at a standstill. Also I think the pony must be fitted with lucas or girling brakes to be able to slow from a canter to a trot from the anchor to the roundabout

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - lily (20th Aug 2011 - 03:34:55) Helen I dont really think it matters when the law was established. The law is the law and we must abide by it. If there is no offence commited by the driver/owner in the eyes of the law then who are we to be judge and jury? If, however the driver/owner commits an offence then surely we sould leave it in the authoroties capable hands? P.S please dont pick up on my awful grammar! It has haunted me all my life!!!:)

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - Diana (23rd Aug 2011 - 10:51:45) Read the front of this weeks Messanger, It could answer a few questions.

Re: Pony and Trap racing in training? - may (23rd Aug 2011 - 12:24:22) That is old news, it has already been raised on this thread, it is tragic but accidents happen every day, I fail to see the relevance, should we be questioning all modes of transport

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