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Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Sudha Rai (2nd Aug 2011 - 11:46:18) Hi everyone, With the Editor's blessing,I am informing you that grayshott.com has a forum on the recently opened tunnel. The difference between our liphook talkback and theirs is that there is a thread about the "near miss" incident, driving speed, overtaking inside the tunnel, etc. I find it helpful. I wonder if you will as well.....certainly whilst it is all new ground and many of us only use it for leisure and not commuting. So far,I have driven through the tunnel both ways and at different times of the day and found it to be a really positive improvement to the traffic flow.

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Dave (2nd Aug 2011 - 12:41:44) Very interesting indeed. So far I have found the following: When the speed limit is set at 70, one is unable to travel through the tunnel at 70mph because there will be someone in the outside lane travelling at 60mph or less. When the speed limit is set at 40 through the tunnel if one travels at 40mph you will be overtaken by other vehicles doing 50+ or tailgated quite severely on the inside lane. Therefore, at the moment it does not seem possible to travel through the tunnel in either direction at the maximum appropriate speed currently in place. TOO MANY IDIOT DRIVERS OUT THERE!

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - helen (2nd Aug 2011 - 18:03:31) As one who has been on a speed awareness course, the speed limit signs mean maximum not obligatory. If you want to overtake a slower driver, use the overtaking lane, that is what it is for. If every driver were doing 75 then all drivers are speeding. Just overtake safely and do not expect that everyone is comfortable driving at 70mph.

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Nearside Lil (2nd Aug 2011 - 19:46:58) I wholeheartedly agree with the first post, the standard of driving is deplorable to say the least and the tunnel demonstrates this perfectly. Few drivers see the outside (and middle) lane as overtaking only and choose to sit there at whatever speed they see fit. This causes frustration of other drivers who are prevented from overtaking at legal speeds. Coming through the tunnel this afternoon an idiot in a black golf GTI doing 55 in the outside lane on the southbound approach to the tunnel and all the way through it and as you'd expect a whole tail of vehicles behind him waiting for him to pull over. He didn't despite the inside lane being completely clear. I vote for a national campaign to utilise the nearside lanes(s) What is the point of widening roads to three or more lanes if the idiots are still driving in the outside two! THIS is the major cause of congestion, not the volume of traffic. Yours Nearside Lil :-)

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Jon (2nd Aug 2011 - 20:07:45) Having avoided Hindhead for numerous years by taking local routes eg Haslemere, Thursley, I too find my biggest obstacle through Hindhead now appears to be drivers in the outside lane doing 50mph or less in the tunnel. I don\'t endorse speeding, but having seen a number of vehicles undertaking in the left lane surely this has the potential to be just as dangerous. On a positive note my commuting time is shorter, the biggest bottleneck is during rush hour on the A3 at Guildford(no change there!).

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Dave (2nd Aug 2011 - 21:19:44) In response to Helen, where has anyone mentioned 75mph in this thread? The speed limit through the tunnel in good conditions is 70mph and the frustration comes when someone is in the OUTSIDE lane doing, say, 60mph or less preventing others (unnecessarily) from driving at higher, more realistic speeds under those conditions. I fully appreciate that some people are not comfortable at higher speeds but if this is the case, they should stick to the inside lane as much as possible. If there is another vehicle in front of them going even more slowly and they wish to overtake then they should take into consideration those who (legally) want to travel at higher speed. For example, under good driving conditions, if you are comfortable driving at 50mph in a 70 mph limit and you are approcahing a vehicle doing 45mph, it is selfish and, more to the point, downright dangerous, to overtake forcing other drivers to slow down dramatically from 70mph to 50mph as they come up behind you. Therefore in this instance, only overtake if the road is clear for a very long way behind you or accelerate significantly when you overtake. Too many people are selfish and only care about their own manouevre, not the impact it has on other road users. I recently took a full motorbike test and it was always stressed during training that you should get to "road speed" as quickly but as safely as possible. 50mph in a 70mph limit under good driving conditions does not constitute "road speed" and if you did this, you would fail the test. I take it you remember from your course that there are many situations in which it is possible to drive too slowly!!!!!!

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Mary W (2nd Aug 2011 - 22:57:18) I suppose one must consider those who pull over to the right to allow drivers to join from the Grayshott slip road and then may be unable to get back into the nearside lane if it is then occupied. What exactly does the sign say as you leave the tunnel - something about lane restrictions coming to an end? What lane restrictions? And all those angry people not able to go at the MAXIMUM permitted speed - I hope they know that tailgating is illegal and dangerous and that they are threatening more than their own lives by their behaviour. Advanced driving courses tell you to drop back if another vehicle is too close behind, so possibly that could cause the bunching. I enjoy driving fast, but I do think the lanes look a bit narrow in the tunnel - rather like the Tolworth section of the A3 - maximum speed 50 mph.

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Alan (3rd Aug 2011 - 07:33:12) One lane closed northbound A3 tunnel for emergency repairs until 8 am

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Dave (3rd Aug 2011 - 09:26:34) In response to Mary W - why do you assume that because someone wants to drive at maximum road speed that they'll be tailgating the car in front if he / she is going more slowly than that? That's an incorrect assumption on your behalf. Yes, it's frustrating but that doesn't make me personally tailgate....I'll drop back and if the driver is being really inconsiderate and not driving appropriately I might flash them but I personally would not tailgate. Obviously some do tailgate and it's both dangerous and illegal as you say. I'm not saying it's right but in many circumstances people driving too slowly cause other drivers to tailgate them. My whole argument on this thread is that many people drive too fast and many people drive too slowly, both of which are inconsiderate and dangerous.

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Nearside Lil (3rd Aug 2011 - 10:39:38) Agree with a lot of the comments but the main point that I was making does not relate to speed at all. The point is that unless one is overtaking (at any speed) or moving over to allow sliproad traffic access to the carriageway, one should always be in the nearside lane (not the middle), its as simple as that. If all drivers did this I would have few complaints Lil

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Liz (3rd Aug 2011 - 10:55:15) I agree with Dave, I have no idea why people are driving so slowly through the tunnel the other day I followed someone doing 30 in the outside lane!! 30 in 70 is ridiculous!! I have spoken to others about this and they thought it was 50 mph, I just laughed and I said why would it be 50 mph when there are national speed limit signs the whole way through the tunnel, their answer is that they thought that average speed cameras meant 50!! Very silly people, you just have to make sure that your average speed is 70 mph. Can everyone just tell everyone they know that it is 70 mph as maybe word of mouth will cure the problem failing that we should all get up really close behind them flash our lights and beep our horns!

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Mary W (3rd Aug 2011 - 17:42:44) Quite difficult to make your average speed 70 mph as 70 is the maximum allowable. Dave, when I travelled through the tunnel the other day, even though both lanes were congested, there were still people tailgating and flashing - where they thought the cars in front of them were going to go, I can't imagine. I am sure that there will be an accident very soon if this sort of driving continues. I thought the white line was continuous, except for the cats' eyes - that surely means no overtaking? Or am I wrong about that? The white line is NOT deemed to be continous, hence lane changing in the tunnel is allowed. I think 'stay in lane' signs would have been deployed otherwise.

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - helen (3rd Aug 2011 - 17:47:12) As I pointed out before 70 is the maximum allowable speed it is not obligatory, think of fog rain etc and it would be stupid to drive at that speed. Drivers should keep up with nearside lane traffic unless they are speeding, but it is a misconception to think we should all be driving at speed. just overtake do not flash or beep what is the point?

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - B (3rd Aug 2011 - 18:11:03) I heard on Kestrel radio this morning that one of the Northbound lanes through the tunnel was shut due to emergency repairs following an incident. Hopefully nothing nasty.

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Mary W (3rd Aug 2011 - 20:59:59) Did anybody else see a notice about lane rrestrictions at an end? What lane restrictions?

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Roy (4th Aug 2011 - 10:14:17) I went through the tunnel last night for the first time and was very impressed but I did see a sign about lane restrictions and have no idea what they mean? I assumed that as there is a single white line between lanes it meant no overtaking but earlier in this thread the editor states this is not correct. Any ideas what the signs mean?

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - liz (4th Aug 2011 - 12:03:56) The single white line is a BROKEN line - only every other space has a cats eye.

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Dave (4th Aug 2011 - 12:24:55) The differences in opinion around road rules and how you should or should not drive as posted on this sight alone are staggering and worrying. The chaos out there on a daily basis is the obvious result of this and it's a wonder there aren't even more accidents.

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Huw (4th Aug 2011 - 12:44:25) It is not Lane restrictions it is " Lane Control" on the signage It quite simply means that the tunnel control centre has the capability of "Controlling" which lanes are in use at any time According to various articles I have read recently there is a well rehearsed system where if any incident that may compromise safety occurs within the tunnels, a 40MPH speed limit can be imposed promptly, and / or individual Lanes taken out of use until the problem is cleared at which point the National speed limit can be restored. Hence the phrase "Lane control" I personally think the tunnel is a great asset and hearty congratulations to Balfour Beatty on a good job well done, it is saving me at least 40mins to an hour a day Although I was travelling last night at the NSL only to have someone Brake very hard to 40MPH at the sight of the SPECS Camera, I guess there is a psycological connection between speed cameras and 40/50MPH, a habit that is hard to shift as the penalties can be severe. For those unsure, SPECS is an average speed camera. Your number plate is recorded just before the entrance of the tunnel and again after you have exited. Your average speed is then calculated. If it is over the speed limit in force at that time you are likely to receive a ticket in the post. There are illuminated signs throughout the tunnel which indicate the current maximum speed. You are allowed to change lane within the tunnel, the white line is not continuous. You should not stay in the outside lane unless you are overtaking.

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - helen (4th Aug 2011 - 14:15:55) Direct quote from an up to date copy of the highway code rule 146 on page 48 DO NOT TREAT SPEED LIMITS AS A TARGET.

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Dave (4th Aug 2011 - 15:19:41) Helen - You seem extremely competent at reading things into posts that simply are not there. Nobody on here is saying that you have to drive at the speed limit at all times. What they are saying is that it is very frustrating not to be able to drive at the maximum allowable speed through the tunnel (or indeed elsewhere) when conditions dictate that it is suitable to do so because someone in front of them is doing a speed not simply lower, but considerably lower than the prevailing speed limit. If you read my posts I am also saying it's incredibly frustrating when the limit through the tunnel is 40mph and everyone proceeds to ignore it and drive through at 50!

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Nick (4th Aug 2011 - 19:55:17) Suggest you DO NOT flash your lights at other road users (i believe this could be classed as an offence if an accident occurs lights warn other users you are there and horns should only be used to warn not to use if you see someone you know ) Some time back a young motorcyclist was travelling along the petworth road at Milford he wanted to turn right and a car coming towards him flashed his lights the boy assumed he could turn he never made it he was killed. It seemed the driver was acknowledging a person he saw at the side of the road

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Robin (5th Aug 2011 - 09:52:48) Seen in the Herald this week. Starting on 22nd August for 12 months, a closure of the tunnel for 3 nights every 3 months for tunnel maintenance. Times of closure 7pm to 6am. I thought it was all done!! I guess they need to 'deep clean' the walls and check all the fans and equipment on a regular basis.

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - liz (5th Aug 2011 - 11:47:04) Presumably only one tunnel at a time!

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Phil (5th Aug 2011 - 15:47:52) Love the tunnel! Hate the idiot drivers, though. Think half the problem is that quite a number (how much, not sure) of drivers probably haven't experienced tunnels very often and hence are driving excessively cautiously or not adjusting their driving style to take account of the tunnel parameters. Or let me put it this way - sit in a metal and glass projectile, surround yourself with higly flammable liquid, then surround yourself with dozens of other similar projectiles (maybe even one that contains thousands of litres of flammable liquid) then hurtle through a concrete tunnel with restricted safety margins at 70 mph whilst listending to the radio and picking your nose. Would you do it?

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Richard (5th Aug 2011 - 18:52:34) I know that other tunnels close on a regular basis to undertake maintenance work, eg. Rotherhithe is closed (I believe Mondays) and the one near Brighton once a month. So if we get in the habit of the closure it may not be such a bad thing, as long as they contraflow it or similar.

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Dave (8th Aug 2011 - 12:53:23) Had the cruise control set bang on 70 yesterday. Got overtaken by a golf and astra in the run up to the tunnel (southbound) both of whom then braked down to 50 through the tunnel whereupon I overtook them back. Withing a mile of exiting the tunnel they had both overtaken me again. I am increasingly astonished at the number of people who have no idea what the speed limit is on our roads! Having said that, I did have my first untroubled run at 70 through the tunnel at 7am this morning. I guess there's a first time for everything. Having thought about it over the weekend though, I do think the 70mph limit through the tunnel is potentially too fast and maybe it should actually be 60.....Discuss.

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Richard (8th Aug 2011 - 17:44:27) I have gone through the tunnel at a relatively quiet time, and it was possible to maintain 70 mph (the wonders of cruise control), but most of the time people don't seem to know what the speed linits are, and are so scared by the cameras that they do not dare go too fast. Alternatively, they may also not appreciate what "Average Speed means"...I know education standards are slipping, but this is ridiculous! I have also seen people doing less tahn 40 in the outside lane, and getting them to budge on the previous 2 miles to the tunnel when going Southbound is nigh on impossible!

Re: Hindhead Tunnel incidents - Mary W (8th Aug 2011 - 23:06:43) Dave, I do agree with you. I think 60 mph would be better. Somehow those lanes feel a bit narrow, probably the tunnel effect. It would only take someone to be startled or worried about being tail gated in the middle there, a slight wobble, and we're looking at a real disaster. Makes me go hot and cold, thinking of a pile-up in the depths of the earth! Excuse slight exaggeration...

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