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Parish Council Minutes - Former Liphook resident (7th Jul 2011 - 20:27:31) I have recently moved from Liphook and keep in touch by regularly checking Liphook.co.uk. The Parish Council is newly elected and after previous discussion regarding decision made in exempt session I am surprised to see that a number of Extraordinary Meetings have taken place. Is this supposed to be progress leading to a more open Council. I am even more surprised that the published minutes of one of the latest of these meetings gives absolutely no indication of the subject discussed or if a decision was made. It is one thing not to publish names etc. but surely it is possible to indicate what is to be discussed. Is there a separate file where detailed sets of minutes of the exempt sessions are kept? It appears as though this Council is more secretive than the last!! I would go so far as to say that the minutes generally are so vague as to be meaningless. Perhaps any residents who attend the meetings can comment on there accuracy. I am sure Liphook residents expected far more from the new Council.

Re: Parish Council Minutes - Griggs Green Resident (7th Jul 2011 - 21:05:45) Perhaps another payout on the cards, nothing would surprise me after seeing the way things were handled at my first ever parish council meeting last month! It was nice to be able to put faces to all the names that I've seen and read about in the past!

Re: Parish Council Minutes - L Davis (7th Jul 2011 - 22:29:59) There are clearly issues from the previous PC that will be being sorted out by the new PC. But issues such as those that have been mentioned on this site previously cannot be dealt with overnight. Why don't we give the new PC a chance to get things sorted out properly before we start speculating? The new individuals that have been elected clearly care about the future of the village, by virtue of the fact they put themselves forward for the PC in the first place. Let's give them our support.

Re: Parish Council Minutes - Dawn Hoskins (7th Jul 2011 - 23:53:54) Dear all (any chance of real names?) We have had a number of extra meetings. However, the agenda for these goes up in the same way as a normal meeting and the public are invited, and I can assure you they do attend, as does the Liphook Herald. If it would make you feel better, I can ask the Editor if there is space on this site to have agendas put up before meetings.. I can't see a problem with that. I have already put up every date I have knowledge of, and I am busy trying to persuade everyone to come and be a part of the council meetings, but sometimes an item is missed off the agenda and an extra meeting is called to deal with it, I don't have advance notice of when that will happen. I will let you know the next time it does though. Sometimes we just can't get through everything in one go. Each committee only meets once per month unless an extra meeting is called. You may prefer us not to call the extra meetings and just delay matters, but we are being pro-active and I think that we should be applauded for that and not criticized for putting more hours in. Have you been to any meetings lately to see how we are behaving? If you had, I do not think you would accuse us of secrecy of any sort - quite the opposite in fact. The only way to be sure is to come along. Us new Councillors are giving up at least 3 or 4 evenings a week at the moment, unpaid, to make things better. I'm sure you could manage a meeting or two to see for yourself?! Then you could post here about your findings and eat some humble pie with it!.

Re: Parish Council Minutes - Dawn Hoskins (9th Jul 2011 - 21:28:23) Dear Former Residident, It is with much regret that I have to inform you that we will be holding, yet another, Extraordinary Meeting this Monday. I do apologise if this causes you any concern or puts your nose out of joint in any way. If I get a moment, I will pass your concerns on (regarding councillors spending more time than usual attending to Parish duties) to my fellow councillors who attend the Finance and Policy meeting. kind regards

Re: Parish Council Minutes - Doreen Lawrence (10th Jul 2011 - 00:42:51) Dear Dawn - Do you have to be SO sarcastic - it really does put people off contributing to these threads you know. I thought the poster made a fair comment - that's what talkback's about isn't it?

Re: Parish Council Minutes - Former Liphook Resident (10th Jul 2011 - 09:43:25) Dawn I am a former Liphook resident. I have moved a considerable distance away and it just not possible for me to attend meetings. I am only able to form an opinion from the Minutes published.and this is why I asked for the views from those that are able to and do attend the meetings. The point I was attempting to make was that some Minutes are published that include a Motion to exclude members of the Public but there are no details of the items discussed. I would refer you to Parish Council Minutes of the Extraordinary Meeting held 13th June 2011 and to the Draft Minutes of the Parish Council Meeting held 27th June 2011.

Re: Parish Council Minutes - Griggs green resident (10th Jul 2011 - 11:31:09) I would like to ask when we are going to find out what the latest solicitors letter is about that the parish council have received, it was raised by a member of the pubic at the last meeting who had seen that it had been received but the parish council refused to talk about it! Deja vu! If the council are going to pay out more money don\'t we have the right to find out / comment on it before the fact rather than after?

Re: Parish Council Minutes - Dawn Hoskins (10th Jul 2011 - 12:10:24) Hi Doreen, I am irritated when people who don't live here, make sweeping statements on behalf of those who do. Many of whom have started to come to meetings and feel 'included' by the Parish Council. I was trying to make the point that if ANY Liphook resident comes to ANY meeting, they will find a friendly welcoming new Council who welcomes them and their opinions. I was trying to make the point that extraordinary meetings do happen, but not for underhanded or secretive reasons. They are announced in the normal way, an Agenda is put up and people are invited to attend. I accept that this is a good place to ask questions and make statements. If 'Former Resident' whoever that is, had actually been to any meetings he would know how far from the truth his statement was. Doreen. If it is fair for 'Former Resident' to say what he thinks - in a juvenile manner, then you must allow me to respond like for like. The difference being of course, is that I have been prepared to put my name to my opinion. We are all human, we are all entitled to be irritated by people taking a swipe at us for unwarranted reasons. I will reiterate. The only way to see who we are and what we are about is to come to a few meetings. We are having them in a bigger room now to enable more residents to come. p.s. I thought the post was funny! Humour is a strange thing - what some laugh at others are tuned cold at.

Re: Parish Council Minutes - helen (10th Jul 2011 - 16:14:29) I too do not see why a former resident who has moved many miles away needs to scrutiise parish council mInutes. This could be a former councillor who moved more than 7 months ago now and was yet still allowed to remain a councillor. Out to cause trouble perhaps?

Re: Parish Council Minutes - Former Liphook Resident (10th Jul 2011 - 18:17:11) Ouch!! I have obviously touched a raw nerve and furthermore my query has not been answered. I will ignore the attempts to identify me as they are way off the mark.

Re: Parish Council Minutes - Sarah (10th Jul 2011 - 20:30:56) Dawn, I do not think the 'former resident's post was being sarcastic - nor was it criticising the calling of extra meetings - simply stating that perhaps the minutes could be more comprehensive for those of us who are interested in Liphook's going-ons but are too busy working etc. to attend every meeting called. I do think this is a fair point as the minutes ARE rather vague. Is there any reason why they are this vague or could not be made more comprehensive in future? I also do not see what the problem is with former residents taking an interest / having an opinion on these matters - i have lived in Liphook all my life (longer than you Dawn, and many of the other parish councillers), and feel that even if I left town Liphook would still be my home so it is fair to take an interest. I also find your sarcasm a little unecessary, and feel that perhaps you should try and be a little more diplomatic in your approach now you are finally on the parish council. "we should be applauded for that and not criticized for putting more hours in." I realise the work you do on the pc is voluntary but i do also fail to see why you should be applauded for it as you haven't exactly done anything yet and do seem to be enjoying this new found position within the community.

Re: Parish Council Minutes - liz (11th Jul 2011 - 08:30:59) If we continue to criticise, the new PC members (who have not had time to prove themselves yet) will quit and then we really will be back to square one. Let's give them the chance to prove themselves. Before the conspiracy theorists and ex-Liphook residents get their knickers in a twist, I do not know Dawn personally.

Re: Parish Council Minutes - Doreen Lawrence (11th Jul 2011 - 16:11:00) We're not criticising Liz, we're just contributing to the forum and raising our individual points which is what I thought this site was for, but it seems that whenever anybody new dares to post on here they get shot down in flames immediately - at least that's how it feels. I shan't bother again.

Re: Parish Council Minutes - liz (11th Jul 2011 - 16:38:43) "SO sarcastic" and "you haven't done anything yet" are not criticism?

Re: Parish Council Minutes - Griggs Green Resident (11th Jul 2011 - 17:14:50) This was my last post and I've had no feedback on it....yet! "I would like to ask when we are going to find out what the latest solicitors letter is about that the parish council have received, it was raised by a member of the pubic at the last meeting who had seen that it had been received but the parish council refused to talk about it! Deja vu! If the council are going to pay out more money don't we have the right to find out / comment on it before the fact rather than after?" I have no problem with the new parish councillors in fact I voted for change but I do feel that certain people who are employed at the offices know how to work the system and even if the councillors wanted to be more transparent their hands are tied, but having said that I do wish that we had the chance to find out about things so the councillors can stand up and talk for us and not be gagged! We had the member of parliment who stood up and named Ryan Giggs does any member of Liphook parish council want to do the same and let us know what's going on this time or has nothing really changed? I do hope not!

Re: Parish Council Minutes - Doreen Lawrence (11th Jul 2011 - 18:11:02) No not criticisms, just observations.

Re: Parish Council Minutes - Sarah (11th Jul 2011 - 19:24:56) No Liz, I do not think "you haven't done anything yet" is a criticism - as how can one expect a new councillor who has only just been elected to have done anything already. I was simply pointing out that Dawn chose to run for election, and as an elected councillor surely she is working for us (Liphook) and therefore ought to make an effort to be impartial and take all views into consideration as part of her role: rather than shooting down in flames anyone who disagrees with her opinions.

Re: Parish Council Minutes - Dawn Hoskins (11th Jul 2011 - 22:55:53) What a shame tonight's meeting was not attended very well. You would all have got the answers to your questions.

Re: Parish Council Minutes - Griggs Green Resident (12th Jul 2011 - 07:58:05) I DID attend the last one but due to prior commitments I was unable to attend last nights! So if all our questions were answered what was the solicitors letter all about? Thank you in advance for your reply.

Re: Parish Council Minutes - liz (12th Jul 2011 - 08:38:01) Doreen - semantics. Sarah - more criticism! Seriously though, I just think the new PC need more time to settle in. There are likely to be legacy issues which cannot be made public for legal reasons. If there is not more transparency in about 6 months time then humble pie will need to be eaten.

Re: Parish Council Minutes - Sarah (12th Jul 2011 - 10:36:42) Dawn we elect councillors to go to the meetings and report back in the minutes! It seems like what you're saying here is 'if you don't go to the meetings, you have no right to complain when your questions are not answered'! You might have noticed that a large number of Liphook's residents commute to London every day which means returning home late enough that we would either miss the meeting altogether, or frankly have better things to do with our evening - if I wanted to spend my time sitting in on all the council meetings I would have run for council! Perhaps it is criticism but I think it needs to be said as I just find your attitude on here hard to understand. This entire ridiculous thread could have been avoided if you had just answered the original poster's question sensibly in the first place: so i'm still waiting to hear why the published minutes are so vague and whether they could possibly be made more detailed for people who do not attend the meetings.

Re: Parish Council Minutes - liz (12th Jul 2011 - 11:37:48) Sarah To say that you (or others) "have better things to do in the evenings" while criticising unpaid volunteers for not producing the results you expect in what is an unrealistic time frame - is a bit rich in my view! I would still say, give them a bit more time.

Re: Parish Council Minutes - dawn hoskins (12th Jul 2011 - 12:13:28) I was answering the statement put by ‘Former Resident’ that he is surprised to see that a number of Extraordinary Meetings have taken place, and subsequent and incorrect conclusion drawn that this makes for a less open Council. Also his assertion that Liphook residents expected far more from the new Council. Councillors are not in control of the minutes. Councillors are not elected to report back in the minutes, this is the responsibility of the Parish Clerk and is so in every Council in the country (to my knowledge). I have recently tried to pass a motion that the draft minutes are only published if the Chairperson or Vice Chairperson can confirm that they are appropriate. We had this confirmed to be an acceptable request when we received council training, however, the motion was put on the agenda without including that part of it. With regards to exempt sessions, Councillors have in the past, I believe (but before my time) raised the issue of vague agendas and minutes etc. I believe that some Councillors have missed meetings without knowing an issue was going to be voted on. The rules do say there should be that a clear indication of the subject to be discussed. I wholeheartedly support those attending meetings to pass on their views, that is a win win situation as far as I am concerned. I have never inferred that if you don't go to the meetings, you have no right to complain. I am particularly open to all and any questions and always put them to the Council when I receive them, but I am not able to answer every question on every subject. I am only 1 of 12 Councillors on the Council. I like Talkback and will continue to use it. I think it is a brilliant resource for the village and a good way for questions and answers to be put quickly. However, it is not up to me to reveal information, which has to be considered carefully first. It is up to the Chairperson. The ‘Thompsons issue’ was put on the agenda for last nights meeting and it was discussed as fully as possible under the circumstances and in front of the public. We were not refusing to talk about it prior to this, but had to take advice before we did so, to be certain as to what could be said and what could not. The Council has now confirmed that a claim has been received. This was received before the new Council came into effect and relates back to issues decided by the previous Council. The press was given a statement, so it will no doubt be in the Herald this week. The new Council are working very hard to do what is requested of us. This should make improvements to the service and provision of information. We are new and enthusiastic, but a huge amount of our time to date has, unfortunately, been taken up dealing with this claim. It is not fair to say that we haven’t done anything yet when we have all been working so hard. It is also not accurate to say that I am enjoying my ‘new found’ position. At the moment I am not enjoying it at all. But we have all been elected to do this job, and that means dealing with this. I agree that the minutes have been vague regarding the exempt sessions. This is because, as I previously said, we had to receive advice first. This has now been addressed and hopefully the minutes should be representative from now on. I do not feel I was ‘shooting down in flames’ but felt strongly that the statement that the new councillors being secretive / that extra meetings amount to us being less open / that Liphook were disappointed in their new councillors were inflammatory and unwarranted. Surely I am allowed to ‘dis a line of argument which I disagree with Doreen? You will all note that I post here as ‘Dawn Hoskins’ the regular human being. I do not post as Councillor and do not make statements on behalf of the Council. My opinion is my own. I pass on information here that is openly available on all the notice boards in the village, and I do this because it is my wish for more people to become involved in Parish matters. As such, my humour (or not) is not curtailed and I don’t see why it should be. Isn’t that what Freedom of Expression is all about? I hope you all understand that I was not able to answer question about Thompsons. No Councillor was able to. I also hope that I have alleviated your concerns as to why the minutes were vague on the subject while we received advice. Certainly, regular minutes on normal matters are usually extremely detailed and comprehensive and have always been so as far as I can tell. I cannot see how they could be made any more so, but please send in your ideas, which we can pass on to the office. Hi Dawn, could you try and get Press Releases and statements (as above) sent to editor@liphook.co.uk so they can appear on this site if appropriate. I still have no clue what the Thompsons issue is.

Re: Parish Council Minutes - Griggs Green Resident (12th Jul 2011 - 13:15:08) "The Council has now confirmed that a claim has been received. This was received before the new Council came into effect and relates back to issues decided by the previous Council. The press was given a statement, so it will no doubt be in the Herald this week." If this is the same person again something NEEDS to be done!

Re: Parish Council Minutes - Phelim McIntyre (15th Jul 2011 - 13:09:39) There are a number of people who I could not vote for who stood for the Parish Council, or who were on the Parish Council, because 1) of the near libelous statements about Parish and District councilors and Parish Council staff, and 2) because of the hate filled leaflets they put out. I was horrified that many of them got in. The number of extraordinary meetings, from living in Liphook and reading the agendas and minutes, appear because certain councilors are "one person party" people who are political Don Quixote or their followers. If the auditors are happy, having checked through everything, why do certain members believe they have the right to hold the council to ransom by not agreeing them. Even after the mishandling of the building of the Millennium Hall under the last Liberal Democrat led Parish Council, and the issues around the Scout/Guide Halls (often caused by the same councilors who were sitting at the time the Hall was built) we have not had so many extra-ordinary meetings or decisions taken by individuals on important matters such as staffing. I am now living in a Parish with a council that I do not want to be sitting. If there was a way to organise a mass vote of no confidence in the council I would.

Re: Parish Council Minutes - liz (15th Jul 2011 - 15:15:14) Phelim I couldn't quite untangle all your post but it seems a lot of people in Liphook had the same view of the previous PC as you have of the present. I still believe the new people must be given more time and if there are a number of Extraordinary Meetings we should not be too surprised as I'm sure there are a considerable number of legacy issues regarding "staffing" to sort out. If this goes on and on however I will of course be forced to eat my hat (not pleasant!).

Re: Parish Council Minutes - Dawn Hoskins (16th Jul 2011 - 12:40:26) Dear Mr McIntyre, I understand from your posting that you felt statements made by acting Councillors had been libellous in effect. As one of the freethinkers among the group I can only assume that you mean me?! [Perhaps you can clarify?]. If you would like to meet with me, I can explain, in detail the events which I have already spoken about at great length. I can show you the exact spots that events happened ..etc..etc. This is such old news that I don’t think rehashing it here will serve any purpose. I can state with absolute certainty that I have never spoken any but the truth about this matter, and also that this matter was NEVER investigated. At many times in ones life, we may come across utterances which we don’t like. Sometimes because they are embarrassing, or make us think about our behaviour, or draw attention to things we thought forgotten. That makes them unpleasant to hear, but it does not make them untrue or defamatory – just uncomfortable listening! With regard to the Accounting Governance Statement, nobody is holding the council to ransom Mr McIntyre. Every one of us [12 Councillors] must take personal responsibility and state, hand on heart, that what we are presented with is transparent and accurate. This should be discussed, item by item, and explained to those not conversant with accounting principles, what things mean etc. Answers must be made individually by each councillor based on their own opinion. Instead, at our first ever meeting, we were presented with a ‘pre-completed sheet of answers’ answered in the affirmative for each and every section. I felt very uncomfortable about someone else pre-answering questions on my behalf, which I was expected to sign, about a very thick document, which I had not had time to digest. Other councillors felt the same. I also felt uncomfortable about items of expenditure which I know to have been made, not being visible. It was suggested that a Working Party be set up to establish whether those items ‘not visible’ should be visible. ALL COUNCILLORS WERE INVITED TO BE ON THE WORKING PARTY. The Working Party has been requesting documentation as to how expenditure has been generated; there has been nothing secretive or underhand. All requests have been approved before hand by the Finance and Policy Committee, so no Councillor is able to act in an arbitrary way. Everything done has been open and transparent. The only reason the Working Party has not been able to conclude, or come to an opinion as to whether to sign off the personal statements in the Accounting Governance Statement [to which we will be personally liable for] is because none of the documents we have asked for have been given to us by the Parish Office. We are therefore at permanent dead-end. With regard to your comment about staffing; the past council made a decision to procure the services of an HR professional. Although agreed, nothing was done about it and this [IMO] led to problems. Having HR services is not controversial- it is quite standard practice. This in no way affect staffing levels or decisions made about staffing. I therefore, do not understand your point Mr McIntyre, when you insinuate that the new councillors are making decisions “on important matters such as staffing” [perhaps you could clarify?] The point you raise about extra-ordinary meetings has already been addressed. We have so much to do, that one meeting per month is not enough. We could either have (a) put everything on the ‘back-burner’ or (b) hold extra meetings. We chose the latter. I would never have thought that this would have been controversial – but clearly it has been. Maybe we should consider doing less work? I take your point that you feel you are living in a Parish with a council that I do not want. I felt the same way for a number of years and decided to do something about it by standing for election. The fact that I was voted in tells me that a large percentage of the population of Liphook felt the same. In some regards, the new Council do want to right past wrongs, and many of us stood due to the perceived dysfunctionality of the old Council. I therefore understand that you feel we are Don Quixote’esque. This is not necessarily a bad thing, as long as every thing we do is open, transparent, reported correctly and done in a professional and correct manner. As far as the newspaper coverage……….well, if that is the basis of your opinion, I would urge you to try another source!

Re: Parish Council Minutes - Diana (17th Jul 2011 - 09:48:19) Well done Dawn on your well written and clear explaination. Perhaps Liphook and Bramshott are begining to get the Parish council we deserve. Dawn is only doing what several parishoners asked her to do in looking at the Accounts before signing them off.

Re: Parish Council Minutes - john (17th Jul 2011 - 11:00:21) Well said diane

Re: Parish Council Minutes - john Trodden (23rd Jul 2011 - 18:05:54) Thank you Dawn-you’re a star. I understand and have some knowledge of the falsely of the previous administration. I am currently being subjected to a claim for Defamation of Character brought by Ex-Council Chairman Nigel Newman. Part of the evidence against me is a transcript, taken from a “covert” recording of a B&LPC meeting in January, where I initially challenged Cllr Newman on three questions, from the floor. According to the Parishes own Standing Orders, the way this 3-4 page typed document found its way to a solicitor employed by the Council Chairman and dealing with a very serious matter is illegal and in my opinion disgraceful. This has yet to be fully investigated & explained by the new administration and I know they are doing a sterling job. I now understand it is the clerk’s responsibility to utilize the data from the recorder to assist in writing accurate minutes. However he is contravening the Parishes Standing Orders if he chooses to send the transcript, or make it available to others to send, to a solicitor employed by The Chairman of Liphook Parish Council in a case of Defamation of Character. Look out Liphook-there WERE some slippy characters in the old “gang”. Jock Trodden The Justice & Anti Corruption Party

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