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Liphook's own pub project. - paul (5th Jul 2011 - 15:35:44) Hi, Is it worth starting a fund to lease and run our village pub as a community project? It is currently advertised on the www.rightmove.co.uk website. With so many country pubs closing for good, let\'s keep ours. For our local history, heritage, and liphook\'s population, for now and our future. Advert: £29,950 Ref: 6567 Recently refurbished & prominently located village inn within the highly desirable village of Liphook. Lounge Bar/Dining area (circa 40), refurbished Public Bar (circa 30) & games area, & Car Park for 25 cars. Spacious 4 bed living accom. Advised t/o for y/e 06/09 circa £255,783 (inc VAT)

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - helen (5th Jul 2011 - 16:47:09) The lease only runs for four years, the rent is 45k per year and the business rates are 65k per year. I think together with staff costs the pub is very expensive to run.

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - May (5th Jul 2011 - 16:58:14) I had heard a rumour that the pub had been sold. Obviously not true .............

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - Joe (5th Jul 2011 - 18:54:13) Very much support the idea of saving the pub, and would be interested in playing an active role. Is the freehold available for sale? Looking forward to further information/interest.

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - B (5th Jul 2011 - 21:35:43) So its all change at the Dragon again then?

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - helen (6th Jul 2011 - 00:05:57) Most unlikely that brewery would sell freehold as it is a tied house I think. I think for the pub to be successful it requires a makeover and investment which for a 4 year lease would not be worth while.

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - James (6th Jul 2011 - 00:50:40) I would be interested in putting in a grand, say. Pubs have been saved elsewhere in the country by organizing a public subscription. Only people living within the Parish should be eligible as shareholders.

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - James (6th Jul 2011 - 09:18:17) Further to the above, if you Google 'Villagers buy their pub', you will see various examples of buy-outs. Apparently, it would qualify as an Enterprise Investment Scheme with some useful tax breaks. The Dragon in its present form can't be making much profit, if any, so it's possible that the brewery might be more amenable to selling.

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - helen (6th Jul 2011 - 09:38:59) I think you will find that because of the requirement on leaseholders to buy all the main beer from the brewery that they would not relinquish a leased pub and lose beer sales. Most pub profits are now on the food not on drink. The 3 horseshoes at thursley works as they have turned it ito a restaurant, and I believe it is a free house. I have eaten there and a meal for 2 plus drinks would be approximately £60. The green dragon has direct competition from the Anchor.

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - Neil (6th Jul 2011 - 15:05:00) It's a great idea but it has been up for sale for rather a long time I think around November last year and with not takers yet something must be wrong.

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - Swifty (6th Jul 2011 - 16:18:47) The Green Dragon is held on a 25 year lease of which 4 remain. The lease was originally assigned by Enterprise Inns to David Jones who then franchised the business to various licencees over the years. It will be Mr Jones or his agents and partners who are seeking to re-assign the remainder of the lease. The drawback to holding a lease rather than a freehold is the tie. This legally binds you to purchase all or most of your wet products from your landlord/Pubco's nominated suppliers. Your landlord will have negotiated generous barrellage discounts from your supplier against so-called list price. You as leaseholder will not receive that discount; your landlord will. You may well be thrown a few scraps to incentivise you to sell more liquor because if you sell more beer, your landlord receives more discount from your supplier! In cash terms, a 50 lt keg of 4% abv lager to you will be circa £122 to £130. To the freehouse down the road it will be about £74 to £80 depending on volume sold per annum. Big difference! This does not mean that a leaseholder cannot make money under the yoke of the terms of the lease, many do. And the more successfull you are the happier you and your landlord will be- until your 3/5 yearly rent review. Because, if you have cracked it, and are making a nice little living out of it,your landlord will want a bigger slice of your pie in the shape of higher rent than before. He'll be ecstatic; will you be? And your business rates will increase as a result of your success. Now start to add up the maths. Rent, rates, insurance, labour costs, maintenance, electricity, gas, product, etc and you get an idea of how much you have to take at the till weekly just to break even, THEN consider that 1/5th of that has to be paid in vat. You take £10,000 in a week, luvvly jubbly! and hand £2k back to the revenue. Doh! All that being said, why should you not make enquiries on the terms available to you and what deal you could strike with the Pubco concerned. It will not cost you much to find out.

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - May (6th Jul 2011 - 19:47:27) This is getting interesting ...... so who is going to do put a business plan together ?

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - Editor (8th Jul 2011 - 10:12:35) Interesting news item on the BBC yesterday. www.bbc.co.uk/news/... Quote - "Tory MP Brian Binley said he had been contacted by many "distraught" tenants unhappy over lease details provided by firms such as Enterprise Inns."

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - Mandy (10th Jul 2011 - 14:37:01) It is great to see that a lot of people seem to want to save The Green Dragon. Some people also seem to have a lot of knowledge of the pub business! It would be interesting to know what it is that the people of Liphook want from their "local pub". The Anchor offers the "cheap and cheerful with full/large plates" option whereas The Links is at the other end of the spectrum. To my mind we could do with a nice friendly local, with a friendly and sociable landlord, good beer with traditional pub food on offer. A pub that is within walking distance of most people within Liphook community that offers a different choice to that which we already have. I for one would not mind paying more for decent well kept food and drink with nice, clean and welcoming surroundings. The building is small so a pub with a warm, cosy friendly atmosphere with good quality beer surely would be most welcome!

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - Dave (18th Jul 2011 - 12:11:39) Well said Mandy, I wonder how many people would use such a pub on a regular basis? as Swifty said earlier, bills and rent need to be paid. The Green Dragon needs to serve all members of the community establishing itself as the "Hub" but first it should gain control of the livelier eliments and gain some much needed respect.....Enterprise Inns dont brew beer, they manage and develop pub property often selling beer gardens and car parks while increasing rents and beer prices Lets hope the Green Dragon can survive.

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - Ed (18th Jul 2011 - 13:44:01) I recently heard that the freehold has been bought by the guy that has coytes and some other buildings along the road, so that he can develop the area. I also heard that he only wants the top end of the car park for his development, so the pub could be available. I think his name is Simon? Ed is not short for 'editor'

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - Simon Coyte (19th Jul 2011 - 16:31:46) Mary and I still own coyte's and although my name is Simon I have not bought the Dragon. Though as like many guys I have always fancied owning a Pub! Simon

Re: Liphook\'s own pub project. - linda north (21st Jul 2011 - 22:12:40) its a old building with character,needs channelling in right direction.real ales,well kept,excellent pub food at realistic prices. it has worked there before,so why not again?needs happy people to work there,it needs to come back as the \"village\" pub.maybe themed food nites,sunday roasts,all home cooked.the prince of wales at hammer does well with food and good beer and thats in the middle of nowhere.there is a huge opportunity to bring the dragon back to village life.whats next?

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - Al Murray (26th Jul 2011 - 14:48:52) This pub still belongs to Enterprise Inns, the lease is assignable but not really a viable proposition in its present state. A steady stream of temps will continue to damage/manage the Dragon. Maybe we should all give it a second chance, it can only get better!

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - Roy (1st Aug 2011 - 14:27:46) I have only been in Liphook about 6 years but in that time the pub has in my opinion gone from bad to worse and lots of previous local clients do not go in there anymore including me From a business point of view I would doubt if the pub has made any real profits for years for various reasons as below 1. Badly managed 2. Poor reputation 3. Little or no food sales 4. Not a freehold with the ability to purchase own stock from any supplier 4. Unable to compete profitably with The Anchor And one has to ask, why would you want to go in there as a customer?

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - liz (1st Aug 2011 - 16:13:20) Does anyone think this could be a deliberate ploy to run down the business so that it is unsaleable - then the property could be sold for residential development? (Like the Railway)

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - May D (2nd Aug 2011 - 14:01:44) Ooooer I hope not it would be a shame to lose the village pub PS (I am going to add the D on my sign-in in future so I don't get confused with the other May )

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - Dee (9th Aug 2011 - 13:44:09) Heard last night that the Dragon is shutting in 5 weeks, don't know if its for refurb or for good.

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - Neil (10th Aug 2011 - 00:14:05) Well from what I have herd and I am the other side of the world it is shutting for good or at least for a while. I understand that they owner of the land wants to build at the back, but some good news they also want to turn the pub back to a nice pub again. So one less pub in Liphook. Neil

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - Al Murray (10th Aug 2011 - 10:56:34) The Dragon is about to take a new direction, new licensee with high standards, good beer, good food and hopefully good local people to support it....watch this space! Post your ideas on here and let them know what you want from your local pub.

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - dave mcgrath (10th Aug 2011 - 18:43:58) been there heard it all before!!

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - David (10th Aug 2011 - 21:57:59) Al Murray? I doubt it! ?

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - helen (10th Aug 2011 - 22:23:45) Have a no yob rule and discourage swearing, bar staff who are good at customer service, and who know what they are selling, some decent wine which is not out of a stowells box. I could go on with a long list!

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - Al Murray (11th Aug 2011 - 11:10:56) I am not THE Al Murray. I would love to see the Dragon lose its tarnished reputation and earn the support and respect of local pub users. It is a small pub and needs to cater for the nicer eliments of the local community. Freshly decorated with a friendly professional licensee, traditional pub menu, good selection of beer and wine from around the world, prepared to turn away the disruptive abusers. If I was such a person, would I be alone? would I get support? I wonder.

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - B (11th Aug 2011 - 16:21:28) We have given the pub many visits over the last couple of years, it seems that each time there is somebody new it takes them a little while to sort out who is welcome and who is not, they start off with grand ideas, there is a lovely menu writen up on the blackboard but it was never advertised so never took off, and then they just get bored and give up. On the last two occasions we have been up on a Sunday night there was nobody else in the pub and it seemed as if we were putting them out by wanting a drink. I havent been up there for a couple of months now but would welcome the chance to go a village pub that isnt either full of 18 year olds with loud music or charging quite so much for a drink. I sincerely hope that whoever does take it over caters for people who are happy to sit and chat, have some back ground music, a nice pub meal occasional and a friendly welcoming atmosphere.

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - Good food & beer lover (11th Aug 2011 - 22:00:20) Its a shame you are not the real Al Murray - I think he is great! Still you sound as though you are a professional with some good ideas. It would seem that the last two managers were not professional licencees! Unfortunately your ideas can be the greatest but unless you have the backing of the Company who owns the Lease(with money to invest in refurbishments etc) and the Liphook community supporting you by spending money on good food and beer, things will be a little tough! I think a traditional pub with good food is exactly what is needed in Liphook. You don't have to compete with the Anchor or the Links, just offer something different, which by the sounds of it you are. I wish you good luck if you are intending to become the new manager and hopefully the community here in Liphook will show you their support by filling the pub on a regular basis! Watch this space!!

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - dave (13th Aug 2011 - 23:05:14) get someome in there who can run it right the green dragon is the best pub in the village come on people lets get this pub back to how it should be

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - anon (14th Aug 2011 - 10:46:27) if we're all honest with ourselves that pub could easily be a half a million a year business, albeit i've only been in the area for 5 years i've seen that pub hit rock bottom, but i think thats purely down to the managers the've employed in there,now if that pub had some decent managers in there i.e. katie & fred :) think about it it's in a prime location, it would need a refurb i agree, it would be run how the locals want it to be, all the idiots that go in there would be booted out & trust me i would, everything from on the menu & which drinks are sold would be dictated by the locals, that pub just needs abit of care & attention so why not give us a chance!!!!!!!!!! love F/william/L

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - anon (16th Aug 2011 - 20:18:08) Everybody seems to want a traditional village pub. The building is in the centre of Liphook, within walking distance of most. If a good manager is put in to the pub, with the more rowdy elements controlled, does this mean we will finally have a good pub with lots of character where you can meet up with friends and locals, drink a good pint whilst having a good gossip?! I can remember years ago when the pub was popular and a good place to go. If we as the local community support a new Manager by giving him our custom, surely the rowdy element will leave of their own accord? The pub could be turned into something great with the right manager and the right custom so if the company owning the lease put in the right manager, then we as local residents should do our part and try the pub at least! I would love to be able to walk to the pub, meet up with my friends and have a good evening out. I am willing to give it a go in September when the new manager arrives, who else is prepared to give it a go and support the local business? I would like to wish Al Murray good luck with this new venture and maybe he is "the one" to turn this failing business around! I look forward to meeting everybody there!

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - dave (19th Aug 2011 - 22:29:06) come on people lets get this pub back on track before its to late

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - viv (22nd Aug 2011 - 00:33:28) Helen Do you know the "yobs"? Perhaps Liphook is not good enough for some-one of your caliber, maybe you should try moving to Buckingham Palace, by the way, is your surname Bouquet

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - helen (22nd Aug 2011 - 11:17:37) I have heard a rumour that Mr Parris property developer has bought the pub so in that case it will not be a pub for very long- and to me a yob is anyone who is behaving badly in public regardless of age, colour, socio economic group, if Prince Harry was behaving like a yob I would have no hesitation in calling him a yob! I was in a pub in Godalming recently and a group of men aged between 55 and 65 were using foul langauage around children in the pub, that sort of behaviour I do not like.

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - may (22nd Aug 2011 - 12:27:11) I agree with Helen with regards to swearing around children, but, to be honest I dont think the dragon is a family pub, more of an old fashioned boozer, I dont believe people should be labled as yobs unless the person doing the name calling has had personal experiance of such behavier, which if this is the case please accept my apologies. I also dont think that the regulars, who have kept this pub open for years should be hounded out for the sake of a few newbys. From a previous thread regarding the Dragon I noticed that quite a few people were full of promises with regard to supporting the Dragon, and full of praise for the then new landlord and landlady, all of which amounted to nothing

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - Chris Parris (25th Aug 2011 - 16:46:54) Dont believe everything you hear Helen.

Re: Liphook's own pub project. - B (5th Sep 2011 - 14:15:56) I beleive today is the day that Green Dragon closes its doors. Hopefully it will open again soon and become the village pub it should be.

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