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Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Customer (12th Aug 2020  10:11:15) Not just my impression, I have verified with shop staff: Pick your own trolley at your own risk. They do not guarantee the racked empty trolleys have been sanitised. Instead, they suggest you handle the suspect trolley into the shop, only then you are supplied with the necessary to sanitise it yourself. The sanitising station is a welcome addition albeit months of pandemic too late. Other supermarkets (at least abroad) have been supplying sanitation stations since about April. Trolley loaded with your items, heading for the non-robot checkouts, queuing is chaotic. Some shoppers believe or are told to queue for your specific chosen checkout, others opt for a general queue where the customer at the front gets to go to the first available checkout. Conflicts are inevitable. How many managerial employees does it take to devise these shambolic systems? Certainly not enough staff elsewhere... Much room for improvement, but we still like shopping at our local supermarket, we thank the front-line staff. Keep safe.

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - k (12th Aug 2020  11:32:12) Exactly why I don't shop there anymore other branches & supermarkets have much better systems in place - shame I have to travel feel sorry for those who cannot - BUT SAFTEY IS MORE IMPORTANT TO ME -Doubt I will return to this store post COVID it is poor in hygene at best of times- feel sorry for the staff

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Penny Williamson (12th Aug 2020  13:17:24) I can only speak as I find. I have never had a problem in Sainsburys either with social distancing or queuing. I carry my own sanitiser with me and sanitise my hands and that of the trolley handle before entering the shop having worked out a long time ago that it would be an almost impossible task for each trolley handle to be sanitised after each customer had used the trolley. Shop managers cannot do everything to prevent infection 100%. They do their best under very difficult circumstances. The thing I find most troubling in supermarkets is the way the public pick up merchandise and then put it back on the shelf. I have seen this happen many times. It is time people took responsibility for their own actions.

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - passfield resident (12th Aug 2020  13:29:16) The only disappointing thing I have found in Sainsbury's is the behaviour of some of the customers. I do think shops should have signs telling people to try not to touch anything unless they are buying it, but that isn't a problem peculiar to Sainsbury's.We are lucky in this area to have low levels of Covid infection, but that can change and people ought to carry on trying to take basic precautions

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Susie (12th Aug 2020  13:38:39) Penny its often necessary to pick things up as you put it,to check an expiry date,or ingredients or even source / origin. Its not crime of the century,if you are carrying your own sanitizer and you could also try wearing gloves if it bothers you that much. Joe Publics approach to social hygiene has been poor prior to this pandemic,how do you think the Winter vomiting bug is transferred.

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - JOE (12th Aug 2020  15:57:34) Penny M and S and Waitrose will not let you have an unsanitised trolley. A member of staff is there supervising the procedure. I gave up shopping in Sainsburys aged ago the level of hygiene in the public toilets has always been nil.

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Albion (12th Aug 2020  18:11:57) Someone should be permanently manning the trollies and cleaning the handles. They do this at Waitrose Alton. Are the baskets being cleaned too, as I never see anyone doing so?

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Realist (12th Aug 2020  18:14:26) Here we go again total hysteria how many deaths in Liphook from the virus not many. Liphook is one of the safest places in Hampshire More deaths from other diseases . Just go about your normal lives but be careful.

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - er (12th Aug 2020  18:41:40) Dont worry about Sainsburys trolleys the way they're packing it in at the coast i think we're in a big second wave and i don't just mean the surfers, sun kills the virus they say but schools go back for winter term soon and i think we're going to need bigger sanitiser bottles!

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Customer (13th Aug 2020  05:08:38) Dear Realist, You're right, "hysteria" It's not about how scary the virus is, it's about failing to keep with rules and regulations. The lax attitude had brought us into this COVID19 mess: medical disaster, societal disaster and economical disaster. The lax attitude is bringing us back into COVID19, or the next disaster.

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - James (13th Aug 2020  09:23:05) er, There is no evidence the sun kills the virus.

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Ginny (13th Aug 2020  10:43:25) As there is plenty of hand sanitizer and trolley sanitizer spray immediately inside the shop, presumably as long as you don't touch your face between collecting your trolley and the short walk to clean it/your hands then it should be just as safe as if there was a member of staff having to stand outside and spray everything. Its also very easy to carry your own sanitizer, if you're particularly worried.

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Penny Williamson (13th Aug 2020  11:19:43) Susie you are missing the point. In response to your comment that I should wear gloves if I am worried about customers touching merchandise. I am not worried as I am very careful myself about sanitising everything. The point I was trying to make is that some people are so quick to criticise management and authority for the way the spread of Covid-19 is being handled and yet the public still crowd onto the beaches, beauty spots and other public places with no attention to social distancing. That is far more likely to spread the virus so all I am saying is that individuals need to take responsibility for their own actions. If you are concerned about the way Sainsburys are handling the crisis either complain directly to the management or don't shop there. To Joe I suggest you shop in M&S and Waitrose and Albion shops at Waitrose as well.

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Dawn Hoskins (13th Aug 2020  11:50:30) Sun kills the virus??????? Tell that to Sub-Saharan Africa and every other sweltering hot country currently being decimated by the virus.

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - er (13th Aug 2020  12:00:59) Interesting, Liphook has it's very own would be free speech censor now! Before you get too hysterical and bossy though James, bear in mind you are factually wrong (now there's a word for that isn't there?): 1) Misinformation I think refers usually to lies or hysteria specifically intended to deceive. A statement such as 'they say this or that' is reporting and cannot be taken as 'advice', the truth is found in whether 'they say it' rather than what they say, you missed that. They do say it as you'll see: 2) Here's a link to show 'they actually say it' from the BBC, but there are many others SAYING IT!! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53392148 Only the UK Chief Scientific Officer, that is! (Seventh paragraph spells it out for YOU James!) 3) I was clearly supporting taking more care not advising people to be blase, so the misinformation causes serious harm thing was a unfair. 4) To what EXTENT the sun's UV rays actually 'kill' it in practice is in dispute and almost irrelevant to your allegation, although it is universally accepted that UV does kill this virus how far this transfers to real life is debated (not in truth but in extent), my point however was that THEY SAY it could get worse again in winter when people are spending more time indoors, yes they do say that James and we should all be wary of that. The risk factors suggested by our top scientists (amongst others) INCLUDE spending more time indoors in enclosed spaces where the virus can spread AND because the virus can live longer in colder conditions 6) I repeat, it could get worse in WINTER as THEY SAY! Don't try to be the community censor UNLESS YOU ARE AN EXPERT BECAUSE OVERSENSITIVE CENSORING CAN HARM!!! An apology would be nice but not expected and I'll forgive you for your overzealousness, I'll put it down to youth as I'm sure you meant well! Stay Safe All.

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - k (13th Aug 2020  12:38:45) Penny I too carry my own sanitiser & wipes & clean my trolley prior to getting to a cleaning station - the fact the cleaning station has ONLY just been addressed at Sainsbury's Liphook is the fault of MANAGEMENT as is the General Hygiene of the store in general Yes it is each individuals responsibility to help protect themselves & others as much as possible - but the competitors of Sainsbury Liphook - have been far ahead of the game - especially when sanitiser was difficult to come by AS TO GLOVE WEARERS JUST WATCH THEM FOR A FEW MINUTES TEND TO TOUCH MASKS THEN PROCEED TO TOUCH FOOD PACKETS spreading potentilal virus & germs everywhere.,I AM TRYING TO protect my LOVED ONES NO GOOD SAYING IF ONLY - AFTER THE EVENT THAT SADLY SOMEONE YOU LOVE IS AFFECTED.BADLY.

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - James (13th Aug 2020  14:33:48) er, Did I stop you from having the right to free speech? Nope. Stop getting yourself in a paddy. 1) You think? So, you didn't want to check? I have linked a UN News report for you on spreading misinformation. news.un.org/en/story/2020/06/1067422 2) I believe you linked the wrong article! I can't find anything about the sun or UV rays on that page! 3) No, it wasn't. It is justified. "Sun kills the virus", no evidence to back that claim up. 4) I do not understand what you are saying here. It is a bit jumbled up. 5) You missed 5. 6) Okay. Did I censor anything? No. What I actually said was there was no evidence the sun kills the virus. That's not censoring, that's stating facts. I don't apologise unless I am in the wrong. I do not believe I am. Unfortunately for you that means no apology :( overxealousness? Please explain, I simply pointed our you were incorrect with your statement. Or is it because I am young it means I don't know enough? I love a debate. Hope to hear back from you.

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Penny Williamson (13th Aug 2020  15:04:15) k It was Susie who suggested wearing gloves not me and it is not the fault of the management if customers handle the merchandise. I can only speak as I find and I shop at Sainsburys regularly before Covid-19 and now. I have never experienced any of the problems that you are talking about and as I said it is easy to sanitise the handle the trolley you use. As has been said before on this Thread if you don't like Sainsburys don't go there. You obviously feel very strongly and I respect that but I think it is probably better to direct your ire at all the people who do not social distance because that is the fastest way of spreading the virus.

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - PR (13th Aug 2020  16:19:40) I think all of you critical posters should Take the Knee for the Sainsbury's staff ~ any of you fancy a shift ~ think not ~ walk a mile in another's shoes .......

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Joe (13th Aug 2020  16:41:23) Penny obviously I do shop in M and S or Waitrose how otherwise would I know about their superior hygiene?

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Susie (14th Aug 2020  05:31:22) Penny August 12 @ 13.17 My reply was directly to your comment. Nobody has missed the point more than you here. As for Sainsburys haven’t shopped there for years,but if they aren’t cleaning properly not surprisingly you should be worried. If you don’t like it shop elsewhere. As for sun killing the virus,utter rubbish. If that was the case after this heat wave it would have been wiped out......but not so !

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Penny Williamson (14th Aug 2020  15:26:20) Joe I have not been shopping in M & S or Waitrose this year but I knew about there stringent hygiene regime- it's common knowledge.

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - er (14th Aug 2020  15:34:15) Hi again all, only me! Some folk think they know it all because... well because they just do and have got FAKE NEWS stickers to prove it! First of all I NEVER said the sun kills the virus, I said it's predicted to get worse in winter because 'they say' sun kills the virus (they being leading scientists etc). I personally have NO MORE KNOWLEDGE than you, I was just reporting! I was slapped a 'sharing misinformation can seriously harm those around you' sticker, not something you can really let slide! But who is James to tell you if my post is true or not, is this the future of debate? Someone else reckons sun can't kill it or they wouldn't have it in Sub-Saharan Africa! Obviously, well argued, informed comment, not subject to James's stickers??? Another says no way, rubbish, or it would have been wiped out in summer! Right gottit? Reminiscent of the school of 'I reckon I'm right so you are misinforming' usually heard by socialist students protesting on street corners, no? I don’t know them but they are almost certainly very well meaning villagers trying to be helpful but... I did post a link to a BBC article quoting the chief MEDICAL OFFICER of the UK saying it will probably come back again in winter when it is COLDER! But no, that was no good. So I’ll now post details of a HIGHLY REGARDED report filed in the National Library of Medicine and quoted by MOST MSM outlets including the New York Times etc (here is a link to the NYT article): nypost.com/2020/06/23/new-study-says... Report Titled: 'Estimated Inactivation of Coronaviruses by Solar Radiation With Special Reference to COVID-19' by Jose-Luis Sagripanti and C David Lytle 1/6/2020 ! won't bore you with all of the report as I doubt many of us would digest it (anyone who is still awake that is!) but here’s a well published extract (that our very own Chief Medical Officer will no doubt have READ!), here goes: Brief Abstract: Using a model developed for estimating solar inactivation of viruses of biodefense concerns, we calculated the expected inactivation of SARS-CoV-2 virus, cause of COVID-19 pandemic, by artificial UVC and by solar ultraviolet radiation in several cities of the world during different times of the year. The UV sensitivity estimated here for SARS-CoV-2 is compared with those reported for other ssRNA viruses, including influenza A virus. The results indicate that SARS-CoV-2 aerosolized from infected patients and deposited on surfaces could remain infectious outdoors for considerable time during the winter in many temperate-zone cities, with continued risk for re-aerosolization and human infection. Conversely, the presented data indicate that SARS-CoV-2 should be inactivated relatively fast (faster than influenza A) during summer in many populous cities of the world, indicating that sunlight should have a role in the occurrence, spread rate and duration of coronavirus pandemics. So, in short, sunlight is 'SAID to kill it' which is ALL I EVER SAID Let me recap; It is said that sunlight kills the virus, therefore I personally believe a resurgence in winter is more likely. TRUE OR NOT, THIS ISN'T FAKE NEWS or anything similar, it is evidential based reporting, sunlight (UV) cannot kill it inside the body obviously, it can still spread from person to person, surface to person, in more crowded countries/ cities etc (in Africa or anywhere else) it will still exist, but IF THE SCIENTISTS are right, then MAYBE it would be worse in Africa if it was colder there, because they say sunlight cuts down the length of time it lives on surfaces in the sun! Maybe it HAS died down a bit here in summer due to the errm, summer being sunny? As I said at the beginning of all this: "…sun kills the virus they say..." That is EVIDENCE, not necessarily PROOF (that's a different thing) but EXPERT BASED EVIDENCE! So please would you withdraw your sticker and stick it somewhere else thanks James! PS Don't take it personal, I know you were only trying to help😊

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Penny Williamson (14th Aug 2020  15:50:21) Susie you are missing the point. My comment was that the fact the staff at Sainsburys not sanitising trolley handles pales into insignificance (because you can sanitise the handles yourself) when you see customers handling goods and putting them back on the shelves. I did not ask for an explanation from you as to why you think handling goods should is necessary or acceptable. You also implied that if I was worried I should wear gloves. At no point did I say I was worried - I am not worried -and I shop at Sainsburys regularly – it was Passfield Resident who was concerned and said there should be notices asking people not to touch items and then replace them on the shelves. My point for the last time is why is there such a fuss about Sainsburys staff not sanitising trolley handles when customers, oblivious to health and safety, pick up merchandise and then replace it- it doesn’t matter why they do it

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - James (14th Aug 2020  17:16:33) er, First of no I will not withdraw my statement. Secondly, yes evidence and proof are different. Let's quickly look into that, evidence is suggestive whereas proof is suggestive. Thirdly, where did I say it was FAKE NEWS! Oh no, I am one of those people :( I'm not. I know you posted the BBC article but that didn't have the keywords such as sun, UV, or light in it. Fourth, I didn't slap you that would be assault. Fifth, UV light the whole point of this discussion. When we talk about the sun we typically refer to UVA as most of UVB and all of UVC is absorbed by the ozone layer, that's according to the CDC. UVC however, can be used as a disinfectant as it is has the shortest wavelength and the highest amount of energy. The article is here: livescience.com/uv-light-kill-coronavirus There's some more infographics for you :) PS I am not 'sticking my sticker' anywhere else.

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - doc holiday (14th Aug 2020  18:14:18) UV light kills most bacteria that is why it used to clean water not sun light per say There was a item on Click bbc tech program about a robot going around an airport loaded with uv tubes and blasting rooms with UV also many pond filter systems use UV to help clean water but there is so much miss information out there we all need to sit back an look at the whole picture and CALM down stop getting arsy with people who have a different opinion than yours w This virus for what ever reason is a nasty piece of work and we all have to try and help each other stay safe Touching food and putting it back is always un hygenic people sneeze or cough into hands touch food baskets door handles etc glove protect you not everyone else but a sensible idea to be safe Some people are very worried about it because of health so we must think of others for a change and not me me me The under 30's seem more resilient but they could spread the virus without knowing they have it take a step back look at the whole picture be aware of the virus take precations and we we all get back to a normalish way of life sooner

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - James (14th Aug 2020  21:30:56) Proof is concrete not suggestive. ***

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Penny Williamson (15th Aug 2020  10:26:49) James I don't understand your statement - "Secondly, yes evidence and proof are different. Let's quickly look into that, evidence is suggestive whereas proof is suggestive." At least the recent posts are not "Sainsbury bashing". [editor]He meant - “proof is concrete’ - see his last post above yours. [/editor]

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Penny Williamson (15th Aug 2020  11:44:20) Editor still don't understand. He seems in one breath to say proof and evidence are different and yet his statement "Secondly, yes evidence and proof are different. Let's quickly look into that, evidence is suggestive whereas proof is suggestive." contradict that. [editor]Read as - Let's quickly look into that, evidence is suggestive whereas proof is CONCRETE." [/editor]

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - James (15th Aug 2020  13:42:10) Penny, In my original statement I accidentally put suggestive twice. What I meant to put, was evidence is suggestive, proof is concrete. This is what I corrected in my last post.

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Susie (15th Aug 2020  14:45:32) Penny Re Aug 14 @15.50,line 10: “My last point for the last time........etcâ€� Wasn’t your last post though was it Penny,again 2 more on this matter, @ Aug 15 10.26 & 11.44,clearly you are demonstrating things need to be explained to you in detail,as I did originally to you. And more than once.....! Penny; It doesn’t matter which shop you enter you do so at your own risk,using common sense,and use any / all methods that suit you to protect yourself. Here endeth the first lesson Penny.

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Customer (15th Aug 2020  15:04:47) Thank you all expert virologists, This thread was not about the COVID19 virus's biology or how some people think the virus is transmitted. The subject was how compliant with the law and efficiently organised is that shop? Does it play its part in the good-will community spirit combating the pandemic?

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Penny Williamson (16th Aug 2020  09:29:39) Susie I did not say it was my last post on this subject merely that this was the last time I would point out my reasoning re: sanitising handles and people handling goods. Also when I posted my post on 15 August 10.26 I had not seen James's previous post! So please do not insult me by saying that "you (Penny) are demonstrating things need to be explained to you in detail". Your last statement "It doesn’t matter which shop you enter you do so at your own risk,using common sense,and use any / all methods that suit you to protect yourself." That is exactly what I have been saying so I think it is you who have missed the point which is stop blaming Sainsburys and take responsibility for your own actions and don't handle the merchanise"

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - James (16th Aug 2020  13:57:09) Susie, There is nothing wrong with asking questions if you don't understand something. Penny, I hope you understand now, if not feel free to ask more questions :)

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Susie (16th Aug 2020  14:11:14) Penny,Penny,Penny, You have so not taken on board why Joe Public will handle the merchandise..and have a right to do so ...see my post to you initially, Time to reflect,just .comical now,maybe you learn by hearing and listening rather than reading,& nothing wrong with that.!

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Susie (16th Aug 2020  15:04:09) James, Exactly! But Penny does not want answers to anything she posts. You should read the thread again maybe. As said & not posted people learn in different ways,some people need to listen to the answer rather than read it. Penny keeps raising the same issue of not handling merchandise,and as already explained Joe Public will and can do that for all the reasons already mentioned. Think you are trying to muddy the waters here a James.

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Penny Williamson (17th Aug 2020  09:30:41) Thank you James. For the record I do not think you are trying to muddy the waters - Susie just doesn't like what you are saying. For the benefit of Susie who doesn't seem to understand anything I understand your posts completely now.You are so right, If people are afraid to ask questions because they feel they might be ridiculed as Susie is trying to do to me, they won't ask them and therefore won't learn or be enlightened. Susie just does not get it - the fact that you can handle merchandise and some people do, is (I don't usually use capital letters but in this case perhaps the point will be rammed home) NOT THE POINT - HANDLING MERCHANDISE IN SHOPS SPREADS INFECTION and this is what this post is all about starting with Sainsbury's staff not sanitising trolley handles. We must all try to act responsibility and observe guidelines if we are to keep this horrible virus under control until when/if a safe vaccination is available.

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Susie (17th Aug 2020  14:21:53) Penny, If your last resort is to attack and insult me in defense of your learning abilities,go for it. I have a very thick skin having worked on the frontline with Joe Public all of my working life. I deal with deliberately awkward people regularly and have never insulted them as you have done. End of my comments to you,I have more pressing things to complete, explaining anything to you is pointless. Go ahead ask questions you have demonstrated your inability to comprehend any answer,reread your posts. Good Luck.

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Penny Williamson (17th Aug 2020  19:15:00) Susie Please point out where in any of my posts I have been insulting. You on the other hand have been at the very least patronising in several of your posts and I quote from your post dated 15 August when you say to me "clearly you are demonstrating things need to be explained to you in detail".Starting your16 August post with "Penny,Penny,Penny," was unnecessary and patronising and in your last post dated 17 August you said that "explaining anything to you is pointless." I find that insulting so "pot and kettle" spring to mind. FYI Susie: Coronavirus: how to shop safely at the supermarket The changes stores have made and steps you can take to reduce the spread of COVID-19 when grocery shopping Eight things you can do to make your supermarket visit safer and more enjoyable While you’re in store, there are a number of things you can do to reduce the chances of catching or spreading coronavirus.(I will not print all eight as they are the usual – masks, hygiene, distancing etc.) Here is number 5. 5. Only touch food you are going to buy, This will stop you leaving germs on items other people touch later. Read more: which.co.uk/news/2020/07/coronavirus-how-to-shop-safely-at-the-supermarket - Which?

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - James (17th Aug 2020  19:17:33) Susie, You are being disrespectful. Penny did not understand something, there is nothing wrong with her asking questions or getting her own point across.

Re: Sainsbury's COVID19 organisation - Pc plod (19th Aug 2020  01:52:55) yet another subject reduced to mud slinging

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