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Teacher Strikes - Moira Smith (24th Jun 2011 - 19:00:18) I'm so cross. I am a parent of a Liphook Infant pupil, this morning at about 10am I got a text message from the school informing me that next Thursday only 3 classes of children would be welcome at school as the other teachers are going on strike. In part I respect their right to strike, but it's disgusting that they make their decision to actually do so with less than a weeks notice for parents. I am generally very unhappy with the school - no leadership, very few full time teachers. It seems to be the place to teach if you only want to half commit to anything. They are even too busy now to listen to the children read individualy it's all done as a group. Bring on September when I can send my son to be educated at a decent school and we can put our involvement with the state system behind us. Sympathies to those of you without choice.

Re: Teacher Strikes - Susie (24th Jun 2011 - 20:57:34) Well you're lucky you have any notice. Legally teachers don't have to give any notice that they are striking. As for the reading, do you offer any of your time to go and help out rather than complain? Or do you just want to throw money at something to get get it done? Maybe you should walk a mile in anothers shoes before complaining about how teacher focus their classes learning time. Parents like you they can probably do without anyway, leave more space for those who value the hard working teachers of Liphook Infants and other schools. I know I do. My son is very happy there and couldn't be doing better.

Re: Teacher Strikes - rob (24th Jun 2011 - 23:17:56) The situation is difficult for teachers at the moment. Did you mean to be so snobbish about this? I can choose and afford an alternative for my children but the one thing truely stopping me from private education is having to rub shoulders with people like you...glad you are leaving !!

Re: Teacher Strikes - Dave (25th Jun 2011 - 08:46:39) Sounds to me (at least) that the OP is miffed because they are actually going to have to look after their own child on a day other than the weekend. Being married to a school teacher has shown me over the years that the OP is not an isolated case, A lot of parents seem to think that school is a state provided day care and then get upset when the "Carers" have the audacity to take an action to improve their lot. I do agree with the 2 previous posters. Teachers do NOT get it easy.

Re: Teacher Strikes - Jan (25th Jun 2011 - 10:03:47) Moyra you do come over as being a bit of a snob. I have 2 childred at the infants and for some time have wondered if it is the best place for them - not that I could finance anything else! I don\'t have much knowledge of the eduction system so maybe someone could help me here - Are our children meant to be listened to read a set amount? I think this group reading is a bit of an easy option and a cop out. Moyra is right in that most of the classes at the school are taught by two part time teachers. Is this a bad thing? It suggests to me that the school can\'t recruit full time staff. The school hasn\'t had any proper leadership for a long time. I believe the deputy head went on sick leave about 3 years ago and hasn\'t been seen since and there hasn\'t been a dedicated head for the last year. This can\'t be a good thing or a positive sign about the school, can it? As pointed by Susie the teachers don\'t have a legal duty to tell us they are going on strike but I would have thought they should have felt a moral duty.

Re: Teacher Strikes - Karen (25th Jun 2011 - 10:12:57) A school is not simply the responsibility of the education dept it is a part of the community and therefore we all have a responsibility, without support from parents the school will struggle. Teachers work very very hard and it saddens me when people slate them, so what if they want to work part time? Maybe they have their own children. They are after all humans too. Surely with all those funds in your bank account you can find a 5* child minder to have your child for the day!! I find the school & the primary to be fantastic.

Re: Teacher Strikes - helen (25th Jun 2011 - 11:40:13) A teacher is a public employee so we all have a right to expect a good service for our council tax, also if it was as private business is run, a strike would probably lead to termination of employment. Are the terms and conditions so bad? People in private business have it tough, as do those looking for work.

Re: Teacher Strikes - Jane G (25th Jun 2011 - 11:41:36) Moira your comments have probably caused offence to a number of people. If you think the state system is quite so bad why put your child in there in the first place? Was it to save a bit of money? Our infant school achieves above average results and having had two children go through both the infant and junior schools and now at Bohunt I cannot fault the education they have experienced. The state system is being pushed hard by our government to achieve achieve achieve, and I am sure teachers are jumping through hoops to meet all the targets set for them. Children in the state system are lucky enough to meet children from all walks of life, social class and ability and I believe come out as much more rounded individuals. Parents have a massive part to play in the education of their children, and I know many parents who happily listen to their child read - the school cannot do everything, we as parents have to take some responsibility. If our children are lacking in some way then I think the first place we should look is at ourselves, and not instantly blame what is a very good and well thought of school.

Re: Teacher Strikes - Paul (25th Jun 2011 - 11:59:27) Jan I can not answer your question about how often children should have someone listen to them reading but regards the state system you are free to approach any of the state schools incuding ones out of county and see if they have a place and transfer them if you think the school that they are in are failing you and your child/children alternatively you can always get yourself involved with school life as much as possible and see if you can help make the difference i am on the understanding that most schools really welcome parental/community input especially people who are prepared to give up some time to listen to children read hope that helps as for teachers strikes yes it is inconvienent even if they gave us a month's notice, my wife and i as working parents struggle with inset days when organised holiday clubs are not in operation i just hope that the strike is not going to be long and protracted as predicted and a solution/compromise is reached quickly

Re: Teacher Strikes - Susie (25th Jun 2011 - 13:30:42) If you have a problem with your childs teacher, not a community page would be the correct way to deal with your complaint. The method Moira has chosen just creates bad feeling and in my case (even though I don't teach at the infant school) anger. I'm sure any of the teachers who do read this, word will have spread by now, will be feeling equally angry as she hasn't given them a chance to defend their actions, only attempted to stir up trouble. Group reading means that actually a TEACHER gets to hear a child read more often than otherwise would be possible. Instead of spending 5 minutes on an individual child (30 x 5mins = 150 mins or 21/2 hours- try fitting that into a school day a couple of times a week). They can hear each child within a small group read while the rest follow and ask questions about the book/ text/ implied meaning in much more detail than would be possible). It is certainly not an easy option and I noticed that the school did offer parents a chance to be eductaed about this last week. Part time teachers are usually mothers who are trying to juggle the work/parent guilt and we are fortunate that this country allows mothers this option. In my experience full time teachers work 6 days a week (often 12 hour days), part time 5 days a week (even if they are only teaching for 2 to 3 days). Preperation and marking / paperwork take up far more time than you would imagine. Think of the iceburg, only 1/3 of what you see is what goes on underneath. Easy option? Lazy? PAH! I have a lot more I'd like to say to Moira and if she wants to send me her email address, I'll inform her all about the proposed slash in teacher pensions (up to 200,000 pounds in some cases) in detail and I'll invite her to accompany me to work for a week. Back to my marking, planning and preperation for next week now.

Re: Teacher Strikes - Les Dobson (26th Jun 2011 - 12:32:44) Poor old teachers - get the violins out! Susie give it up, think of all those holidays! Listening to you whine and moan makes me wonder why you bother! Helen you are right we as tax payers should get decent services for our money. Every one working in the public sector is suffering at the moment, thankfuly most recognise that the reason they opted to work in that sector is becuase they wanted to help people and because they care. Nobody does it to have a fantastic pension or earn loads of cash. Moria took a particularly abrupt approach to her comments and she probably should n't have, but I am enjoying that you have all decided she doesn't want to look after her children for the day and the strike is inconvenient to her. Has anyone stopped to think she may be out working in a responsible position and doesn't want to let people down? Maybe all Mums should stay at home and live on benefits, then they would be free to look after kids if the teachers want a day off!

Re: Teacher Strikes - natalie cross (26th Jun 2011 - 12:56:03) I am a carer, I look after old people in there homes. For 2 years we have been in a pay freezE, the cost of petrol keeps going up and we don't get a penny extra to cover thius cost. We keep getting poorer. We should go on strike, but we don't because we care and coulds not bear to think of the old and sick people we visit being stuck in bed, not having pills, not getting food. On thursday I can't go to work because of the teachers, most of the other carers can't work either. That means we won't get paid and the old peolpe won'y get the care they need. I think im a world away from moya and i don't mind looking adfter my children but i would like to work to and pay the bills.Thanks teachers shame you don't care about the children more than money.

Re: Teacher Strikes - Helen Atkin (26th Jun 2011 - 14:14:41) When I have calmed down after Les\'s and Natalie\'s comments I will write a considered reply. In the meantime I will continue to write the rest of the 90 reports I have been doing all weekend. I am not striking (not in that union) but completely support colleagues that are. We are not your creche Natalie!

Re: Teacher Strikes - helen (26th Jun 2011 - 15:45:40) Yes teachers may feel hard done by but there are other groups in society who have been suffering since the reccession hit in 2008 who are maybe not in a position to complain. Any decent financial adviser would not encourage teachers to leave their pension scheme it is still better than most private contributary ones. We all are suffering, perhaps a comparison would be, an employer who goes bust leaving his workers without redress, the state cannot afford to cushion public sector workers from the realities of life.

Re: Teacher Strikes - lily (26th Jun 2011 - 19:49:31) I must defend Moira. Why are people asking about her financial situation? The point is teachers are employed to do a job. They should do it. Perhaps Im completely ignorant but as far as I am aware,they get lots of benefits for doing not much. No they are not OUR entilement to free childcare, but in fact the law states that our children must be educated, and we as parents are legally bound to enforce this. A teachers job is to teach, and one to one reading is a basic thing. How can a child be assessed if its teacher doesnt know the individual childs ability? It is not because the school is a state school, my son went to Rake and I know that he had an education level to the kind you can buy.Its class sizes small, one to one attention was as standard. My son had problems at Liphook because of bullying. His lunch box was being squashed repeatedly by some of his classmates. The answer to the problem for them was "why doesnt he have cooked dinner?" That is not a solution in my eyes. The school lacks personal touch and it is in my opinion shoddily run and very incompetent. Also, why is it ok for the teachers to make the innocent little children suffer by depriving them of their education?They were employed to do a job, maybe they should just do it, and whinge in all the holiday time they get.

Re: Teacher Strikes - Jane G (26th Jun 2011 - 20:16:11) Now I've just picked my jaw off the ground from Lily's comments I had to post again ;-) To quote Lily.... "why is it ok for the teachers to make the innocent little children suffer by depriving them of their education?" Let's get this into perspective, we are talking about children 7 years old and under. In some parts of Europe children don't even start formal education until that age, so I hardly think 1 day off school is going to deprive them of their education. I wonder how many of these parents who are complaining are quite happy to take their children out of school for a week or two for a family holiday? And to quote again... "they get lots of benefits for doing not much" Do you really believe that's true??? I think teachers work exceptionally hard, and yes they get the holidays off (although I'm sure they are working for some of this time!)...so what? That's the career they have chosen, it goes with the job.

Re: Teacher Strikes - helen (27th Jun 2011 - 10:11:19) I am not up on the details of the strike but surely it is not just Liphook infant school teachers who will be on strike? Perhaps teachers do work hard but the outside world would have comparable jobs with lower pay, less protected pensions and fewer holiday perks. It was interesting that radio 4 recently stated that of the state employees recently made redundant, only 10-15 per cent of them had been lucky enough to gain work in the real world. My sister in law was working as a college lecturer on a huge salary, took redundacy because she was so sure she would walk into any other job, not so. Six months on she has not got work. State employees do not see working conditions elsewhere but the state can no longer afford the generosity towards them.

Re: Teacher Strikes - CK (27th Jun 2011 - 11:13:47) Liphook Junior School are not currently striking so does that mean that the junior school staff are in a different union or is it different leadership?

Re: Teacher Strikes - Eneida (27th Jun 2011 - 11:49:25) I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for teachers going on strike because they're upset about changes to their pensions. They're lucky to have a job with a pension or indeed, in the current economic mess we're all in, to have a job at all!! They should try to live in the real world like the rest of us have to and see how they like it....

Re: Teacher Strikes - vicki (27th Jun 2011 - 13:32:57) I have been reading this thread with interest over the weekend and I have to say I am horrified that people seem to view teachers as lazy, greedy, selfish people who are only in teaching for the holidays and can't commit to anything full time. I have just returned to work, part time after having my first child. I am a secondary teacher and I have returned not just for the money but because I love my job and everything that comes with it. I am abused by students and parents, I am constantly being hounded with statisitics and exam results and I work every evening and weekend and during all my daughter's naps on my days off and do I mind? No not a bit, I realise that's what I signed up for when I became a teacher and there are so many more positives about the job that make it completely worthwhile. I do however find it very difficult to take when people suggest that we are greedy and lazy and only work 9-3. I spend a long time planning my lessons to make them interesting and make sure individuals are progressing as they should. I do work and lots of it during my holidays when people perceive we are all lying on a beach for 6 weeks. I am putting my child into nursery for an extra afternoon this week so I can attend the school's summer show rehearsal, unpaid in preparation for the performance the following day. I will not be striking on Thursday because I dont work on a Thursday but plenty of my collegues are and I fully support them. Teaching tends to be a lifelong career and people who have been paying into their pensions for a long time are about to see far less that they expected in return, for some it is too late to make extra provisions and those people should be supported. The industrial action is going to cause debate, that's what its designed to do but please, please before you criticise a classroom teacher for being lazy and money grabbing, ask how hard they are working and sometimes with how little support, to do the best they can for your child. "...and people who have been paying into their pensions for a long time are about to see far less that they expected in return, for some it is too late to make extra provisions ..." - 90% of people working outside of the public sector have and will experience this - teachers are not unique and need to understand that the rest of us can't "throw the toys out of the pram" and go on strike - we will just have to work longer and grin and bear it.

Re: Teacher Strikes - helen (27th Jun 2011 - 14:14:32) perhaps when the strikers realise that they are out of touch with how other workers are treated they will re- consider, all this will do is speed up redundancies in the public sector, then perhaps when the ex public sector workers look for work they will reaslise how shortsighted they are. I am not suggesting they are all lazy but some view it as a protected job for life, and do not certainly have the same job uncertainty as the private sector. How many other parents have at least 10 paid weeks of holiday per year? All managerial workers take work home now and work extra hours for no extra pay.

Re: Teacher Strikes - Jay (27th Jun 2011 - 22:29:57) I'm not going to get into the rights or wrongs of the teachers' strike but I will say that it is not fair to accuse poor Moira or Natalie as treating teachers like "a creche" etc. The Government expects mothers to find work once their children are at school or, so I'm told, lose benefits. I'm sure it's not that easy to find work that fits around school hours and school holidays oh, and then the school INSETT days and, with Bohunt in particular, closures for school open days, teacher consultation days and even a football match. So these poor mothers are bound to be frustrated when they have to explain to their employers why they can't come into work again. I'm a working mother (through necessity not choice) in an environment where there are redundancies and I dread my children/childminder being ill or school closures. It isn't easy to make alternative arrangements at the drop of a hat and costs the working mother more of her hard earned cash. Teachers aren't the only people who work hard and their striking actions do affect a lot of people in many different ways. I hope they can resolve their issues so that we can carry on with our jobs (if we haven't already lost them).

Re: Teacher Strikes - Callie (28th Jun 2011 - 20:00:30) I am a secondary school teacher who will not be striking on Thursday (as i don't work full time due to two small children) but i just wanted to say 'walk a mile' and all that before criticizing. I've been teaching for 9 years and never have I come across such anger towards teachers. Attacking a profession that contains extremely dedicated and caring people is a very unfair generalisation!

Re: Teacher Strikes - david (28th Jun 2011 - 22:00:43) I AM sick of hearing how hard done by the teaching profession and other public sector workers are. I was self employed for for 30 years and no one paid into a pension scheme for me, i didn't get nearly 3 months holiday, i worked 7 days a week and i did not get sick pay. Grow up and wake up to what this recession has done to this country, the pot is empty, there are 2 wars we are financing, you are lucky to have a job.Try walking a mile in the private sector workers shoes and you will soon see how fortunate you are.

Re: Teacher Strikes - Sarah (28th Jun 2011 - 22:24:32) Caliie, please don't let a few angry people on here make you think that is the general consensus.Some of the comments have been quite stunning! I think teachers are extremely hardworking and if I didn't think highly of them I wouldn't put my child in their hands. I am also supportive of their right to strike and of anyone's right to fight for better pay/pension/working conditions etc. This is contrary to other people on here who seem to think that if life is hard it should be so for everyone and we should all just grin and bear it! I believe that would turn us into a very different sort of society. I would also like to voice my support for Liphook Infant School which I have found to be a lovely welcoming school for my child. All leadership issues have been well explained and are being resolved for the best. All group reading activities have also been well demonstrated and explained. I have no complaints about the care and education my child has received there and have nothing but praise for the friendly atmosphere in the school which I consider of prominent importance for children of such a young age. Good luck to the lady who is moving school in September - I hope you find the atmosphere there as welcoming!

Re: Teacher Strikes - Sarah Franks (28th Jun 2011 - 22:26:42) I am shocked by the way so may people have slated the teaching staff of Liphook Infants. I have a child at the school and will be affected by the impending strike. Teachers have a right to strike and have let us know, we could have been called on the day to collect our children when teaching staff were unavailable and then what we have done! With regards to the leadership, both the juniors and infants have been actively trying to recruit a new head teacher, and we have been kept up to date about this. Surely it is better to recruit the right person rather than to get someone who only half fits the role. When you all moan about hearing children read, how many of you honestly listen to your child read for at least 10mins every day? We as parents have a huge role to play in the education of our children and hearing them read is part of it. Group reading isn't an easy option - the teachers are not just listening to 5 or 6 reading at the same time for speed but focusing on a specific area of learning and checking all the children understand the learning objective. The teachers must also get a good knowledge of how our children are progressing through the other curriculum lessons when reading skills are needed! Over 50% of the teaching staff at the school are full time and I have no issues with P/T teachers. Take a look at other schools in the area and i think they too have many part time staff. Infant/primary schools tend to attract female teachers and they have right to chose to be part time especially when juggling work/home life. I have found this can sometimes benefit the children especially if your child doesn't 'click' with a teacher. Having volunteered at school to help I have had my eyes opened as to the hard work all the teachers do. They don't just turn up at 8.45am and disappear off at 3.15pm, most are there at 7.30am and don't leave until at least 6pm. they then take home planning and marking and prepare for the next day/week. Oh, and who runs the after school clubs for our children – oh yes, the teachers. Whilst we all took a holiday during last half term and enjoyed the weather, I know that the teachers spent the week writing reports, I know what i would rather have been doing. I applaud the hard work the teachers do and can hand on heart say I wouldn’t do it. Liphook Infants is a great school – with happy children and caring/hard working staff.

Re: Teacher Strikes - helen (28th Jun 2011 - 23:19:11) I do not think the issue is how hard teachers work. The issue is the cuts that they are facing, and those of us who survive without perks enjoyed by public sector workers cannot understand how they do not see how well off they are compared to those of us who have suffered the recession for 3 years. Obviously if the previous posters think everyone is entitled to a good standard of living, they will not mind having a sharp rise in income and council tax to pay for it? A fair society does not come about by strikes, it just means one group of workers ensure they are OK. A fair society comes about when we take care of the vunerable first which are the elderly and disabled, the very groups who have been hardest hit by the recession, not the teachers. On the news today the bbc stated that there are 82 graduate applications for every graduate position. What we should be doing is creating profitable employment. One in 5 workers now are public employees and that means our taxes have to support this sector, so why cannot we demand value for money from them at least?. We have no choice in whether we want to pay tax towards supporting all these jobs.

Re: Teacher Strikes - Callie (28th Jun 2011 - 23:23:24) Please could i also add that my daughter is at Liphook Infants and she has absolutely thrived; through group reading or individual reading. the school has been wonderful and has given her more than an education but a sense of community and some wonderful peers!! One final thing, these new ideas/initiatives are often pushed upon schools to implement so perhaps teachers are not always at fault?!!!!! Still reeling from the comments Callie

Re: Teacher Strikes - BDavies (29th Jun 2011 - 10:26:17) The issue here is not the sterling job that most teachers do it is about economics and what money can buy you these days. I have a good contributary company pension but the fund value has more than halved over the last 3 years and its predicted maturity value will be less than half of the original value predictions. For those that are lucky enough to have a pension in the private sector, the same is universaly true, even if it is based upon final salary. Pension values have dropped severely for everyone! The private sector is rarely able to strike to make a point; we have to face up and put up and make adjustments to our lifestyles to finance any shortfall in perceived retirement income. This means working for longer or foregoing other expenditure to help us to do this. These cutbacks will go ahead whether the public sector strikes or not. Just bear in mind that the economic reality that is impacting public sector pensions now has been adversely impacting the private sector for some years now.

Re: Teacher Strikes - Dave (29th Jun 2011 - 16:39:19) Well hasn't this topic brought out the worst in a lot of people. Lazy teachers, ungrateful, we pay our taxes to pay your salary etc, etc. People seem to forget that the teachers are only a PART of the public service going on strike and, funnily enough, they all pay tax. So in effect they are actually paying part of their own salary! It seems that the talking heads (politicians) have singled out the teachers. Has anyone questioned how much the politicians pensions are going to be affected ? Not a jot. They have already ring fenced and preserved their little (sic) nest eggs. The men & women of customs and immigration are also public servants. Perhaps some of the nay-sayers should complain to them in person next time they try to go overseas. Think you could find your trip cut a tad short. At the moment this is a nation divided in opinion by this strike and the ONLY ones who will come out on top will be the politicians. Teachers and others are only trying to get a little fairness. To badly misquote "If you pay peanuts, you'll only get monkeys".

Re: Teacher Strikes - Phil (30th Jun 2011 - 09:14:40) May I just point out that Liphook Junior school is open today and staff in to teach - so lets not generalise! Its not everyone!!!!!

Re: Teacher Strikes - helen (30th Jun 2011 - 09:47:08) Glad that not all public workers are on strike, with regards to salary the latest studies show that public sector workers are paid comparable salaries with their non public sector counterparts, and that their pensions are still usually better. I met a young worker last night who worked full time in a retail outlet in Farnham, and to make ends meet, after work she had to do part time work as a waitress in a restaurant as well, perhaps we should reserve our sympathy for workers such as these. She also had a degree.

Re: Teacher Strikes - maxine (3rd Jul 2011 - 19:45:04) Wow you lot on here do like to gang up on people for having an opinion that differs from your own dont you! I agree with parts of Moira's post actually but not all. It is incredibly frustrating when teachers go on strike. Not so much because it can be difficult to find alternative childcare, but because it is actually very disruptive to the children. At such a young age children need regular routine and being kept off school or given substitute teachers is actually very disruptive to their day. It is true that majority of people have to just get on with things-without the opportunity to go on strike. What is it they are striking for exactly? More money? less hours? More holiday? lol they are already pretty well paid in my opinion. At least they have jobs. Many out there dont. And as for hours, my partner works 12-14hrs+ per day and has to travel. And holiday? well they get 6 weeks off plus half terms etc so really what do they have to complain about? As for state education vs private education, this is something i do not agree with. I had the option of sending my daughter to the Royal school. Incredibly expensive and their stats are very good. However after looking around i actually decided that it would not be the best environment for my child and that at her age (5) it would be more important for her to attend a school that she would feel comfortable in. That was a caring environment where she would flourish. It is important to read to a child yes, and a routine is important yes. But paying for school does not necessarily guarantee that your child will do well. I also think that when it comes to the welfare of your children its ok to be a little snobbish once in a while and i feel that some of you on here take things far too personally, that the way you all gang up on someone is intimidating and you should not slate people for having their own opinions. Even if you dont agree with them.

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