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The Pope's Funeral - Eneida (8th Apr 2005 - 15:01:55) As a Catholic, I was very moved to see the thousands of people of different nationalities, cultures and even religions standing peacefully together to mourn the Pope. Even world leaders who would usually be at each others throats!! Wouldn't it be wonderful if the world was always like that!!...can't see it lasting, unfortunately.

Re: The Pope's Funeral - Steve Read (8th Apr 2005 - 18:26:17) Whilst not wishing to berate anyone's belief or religion I find it somewhat confusing that we talk about peace and harmony when history shows us that millions of people have suffered and died all in the name of religion and continue to do so today. Every faith has blood on its hands, every faith is guilty of manipulating its followers for land, power and wealth. Whatever your belief and I respect that please remember that there are a great many people who don't really care one way or the other and to have every single media channel conjested with the happenings of the past week I find rather tiresome. Sorry Eneida not having a go at you, its just the way I see it.

Re: The Pope's Funeral - Eneida (9th Apr 2005 - 08:02:07) I'm well aware of history, Steve. What I thought was wonderful was that, even in this imperfect world, for a little while at least, millions of people DID care. For me the bottle is always half full!! So sorry you found it all very tiresome.

Re: The Pope's Funeral - Alex Cameron (12th Apr 2005 - 12:06:42) Damn someone got in there before me ;) Eneida, respectfully as always, allow me to be the second person to go on the record as not caring very much. That applies for the royal wedding too - i just can't stand the gushing pseudo-emotion of it all. I think my problems with JPII might be something to do with his effective endorsement of Pinochet, interference with contraception advice in Africa and the blessings on sale in St Peter's Square when i last visited. I know its not good form to speak ill of the dead, but perspective is important. I was particularly fascinated, however, to hear that he prayed with the gunman who tried to assassinate him. The Independent has a very insightful article about these very points, here (get a user/pass from www.bugmenot.com): http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_a_l/johann_hari/story.jsp?story=627335 Don't get me wrong, my other half is a catholic, but i just can't understand the institution itself. Is it me, or are people just getting slightly more obsessive with displaying their emotional tributes in public as times goes on? Then again it might be just the media...

Re: The Pope's Funeral - S (12th Apr 2005 - 13:30:21) I have to agree with certain points on here. Religion seems to be the one think that starts all the hatred and wars in this world. If there was no religion would there be no war?? Don't know, would there be something else, possibly. Perhaps one religion would be more appropriate, so that everyone believed in the same thing. Oh and don't get me started on the Mafia and the Catholic church.

Re: The Pope's Funeral - Eneida Nelson (12th Apr 2005 - 15:14:52) I don't totally agree with many things the late Pope or the Catholic church endorse either. Particularly contraception and celibacy for the clergy, because I think these cause a lot of problems. Certainly the issue of contraception is deviding the church in Brazil, as the government is trying to encourage it as a fight against Aids. However, I don't think the emotion at his funeral was pseudo. Even though he was inflexible, I think he was genuinelly liked and respected and much more visible than any other Pope before (in fact I hardly remember any other Pope). Some races, especially Latin ones, have always been more demonstrative in public, perhaps the Anglo-Saxons are just catching up!! If you want to be part of one big Europe you'll just have to join in - or else big brother will get you. S - we certainly won't get you started on the Mafia etc. thank you very much :-)

Re: The Pope's Funeral - Alex Cameron (14th Apr 2005 - 12:29:07) I can't say i agree with the idea that religion itself causes wars - homo sapiens starts wars and uses religion as an excuse for them. We go to war for 2 reasons, and 2 reasons alone - to protect our interests, or to enhance them. Religion is a cultural framework for the establishment and maintenance of morality, and a way for us to gain some understanding of each other and our place in the world. I must say i did love the 'popemobile', and can agree that the chap was widely liked and respected. The latest Private Eye has a very interesting analysis of the TV coverage his illness and funeral got - apparently reporters were camped in Rome for weeks and his persistence in living messed all their scheduling up, hence the arslikan. And as it happens, Latin women are the most beautiful in the world, without question. :D)

Re: The Pope's Funeral - mammal (20th Apr 2005 - 03:59:53) re : Religions and war There is an old Hindu saying along the lines that in the beginning there was God and then there was the devil and they called it religion. I'm not sure the greatest conflicts of the the 20th Century were particularly Religious Based. Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. Also I am not sure that there have been many great Buddhist wars although some people might argue Buddhism is more a philosophy than a religion.

Re: The Pope's Funeral - S (20th Apr 2005 - 09:41:28) That being the case mammal, how do you explain that when Saddam tried to take Kuwait he claimed it on religous grounds. When the Allied forces took it back it was because we wanted to over throw the muslim religion causing an out roar accross the middle east. When we realised that Saddam and his regime was as evil as hitler if not worse and we sent the forces in to rid the country of his rulership it was deemed to be a force against muslims again. Every war in the middle east, asia and a like is almost certainly religion based and It's madness.

Re: The Pope's Funeral - Eneida (20th Apr 2005 - 10:32:28) Well, the conservatives have won the election...but this is one conservative I didn't want to win ;-) With more than half the world's Catholics living in the Americas and wanting a progressive Pope, who will be willing to address 21st Century problems, I find it a very strange decision to elect an elderly, hard-line German with a slightly dodgy past (Hitler Youth Movement). Cann't help but see huge problems ahead - I'm not a happy bunny this morning.

Re: The Pope's Funeral - Alex Cameron (20th Apr 2005 - 11:58:21) Sad indeed, Mrs Nelson. From an email i sent out this morning to friends: "Pope Benedict is firmly opposed to birth control, supports the celibacy of the priesthood, and is against the ordination of women. He has said that anyone who supports the 'grave sins' of abortion and euthanasia should be denied Communion. He has also spoken out against homosexuality, and once denounced rock music as 'the vehicle of anti-religion'. " (BBC News Online) Can't say i'm too unhappy, as it'll keep Rome from influencing most people's lives for a good deal longer. Personal feeling aside, Catholicism has had more than enough time, both to rectify its behaviour, and to be a force of moral authority. It would be nice if this pope stood up and said sorry for collaborating with Nazi Germany. Steve and Mammal's points are both interesting - however Bush didn't help anything by labelling his latest bloodbath a "crusade". But maybe it would be good to clear up some factual errors - Saddam tried to take back Kuwait because he believed it was historically part of Iraq, and we attacked him twice to protect and enhance our interests in the middle east. The UK joined in as the political ramifications if we didn't could be extremely damaging, and the nenefits included being able to 'punch above our weight' at the international level. Saddam's regime was horrific, but it was nowhere near as bad as Hitler's (6 million+), let alone Stalin's (35 million +). Its also worth noting that the Kurds he gassed were not "his own people" as so regularly stated on TV - the Kurds are spread between Turkey, Iran and Iraq and are known as the world's last "country-less people". Having said all that though, religion is the major factor when it comes to the middle east after the ancient Jews (Issac) Vx Arabs (Ishmael) issue. No-one can doubt that the most dangerous and aggressive uprising on the world stage is militant islamic extremism. I can see this thread being quite long....

Re: The Pope's Funeral - Eneida (20th Apr 2005 - 16:55:54) A friend of mine thinks the election had such a quick result because the progressives, knowing they would be out-voted, gave in, gambling on the fact that this hard-line Pope will be such a disaster and also short lived (well, he is 78) that the next time they will definitely win. I wonder...but it's an interesting theory don't you think, Mr. Cameron?

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