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RTA Passfield - Sc (3rd Jul 2019 - 10:12:13) Yet another nasty accident on the Passfield straight / Hollywater Rd junction. So when will there finally be some effective traffic calming measures on this stretch of road??

Re: RTA Passfield - SA (3rd Jul 2019 - 11:22:13) Is Passfield unique in having the speed limit increase (from 30 to 40) as you enter the village? Most other villages have white gates and a "please drive carefully" sign, but not Passfield. It is almost as if the council want drivers to drive recklessly and add to the 3 or 4 fatality count. Fortunately in this case no one was injured, just two right-offs. Even if proper traffic calming can't be afforded, then at the very least make it 30 like all other villages and paint no overtaking lines down the middle as it is overtaking at speed by junctions that is the cause of most accidents.

Re: RTA Passfield - PR (3rd Jul 2019 - 13:35:37) Interesting comments regarding the speed limit- Driving towards Liphook today I was overtaken, close to the spot of todays RTA, by a Black Mercedes 350 AMG registration number AA11...[last 3 letters removed] I was travelling at the legal limit of 40mph on cruise - classic example of the ' Me First ' society. It benefited them not as I was right behind them as they turned left into Tower Road. Oh the joys of having a very sophisticated Dash Cam.

Re: RTA Passfield - Julian (3rd Jul 2019 - 16:08:23) As a local Passfield resident, I made enquiries regarding the traffic calming measures last year. Yes, traffic calming can be installed, however the community is expected to raise the funding themselves. I emailed Ian Janes @ HCC with my concerns (Ian.Janes@hants.gov.uk). Mr Janes is responsible for Traffic Management (East Hampshire & Havant) Economy, Transport & Environment Department at Hampshire County Council. Its certainly worth giving it another go with the support of local Councillors and a community group. Here is what was previously communicated by HCC in March 2018, two weeks after a serious accident at the junction of Passfield Road and the B3004 with the Air Ambulance in attendance ... -------------- Thank you for your e-mail – I have double checked the five year injury accident record for Passfield Road, Passfield and I can confirm that there is no existing injury accident problem at this location. Regrettably, successive (and on-going) rounds of spending reductions for local authorities has reduced the County Council’s capacity to investigate & implement highway improvements and, in turn, has required the Council to prioritise its remaining limited resources to primarily address the causes of injury accidents to reduce the number of people killed and injured on its roads. The County Council’s Traffic & Safety teams use casualty data provided by Hampshire Police to identify locations where accidents are occurring and to assess the scope for engineering measures or traffic regulations to reduce the likelihood of similar accidents reoccurring. We regularly receive enquiries expressing concern about road safety and requesting engineering measures or traffic regulations, but where there are not proven injury accident problems. These locations are a lower priority compared with locations where there are proven injury accident problems and, with resources limited, they are generally not being investigated further at the present time. As requested, I have checked the five year injury accident records for the junctions of (i) the B3004/Hollywater Road and (ii) the B3004/Passfield Road. At the B3004/Hollywater Road junction, there has been one recorded injury accident and, at the B3004/Passfield Road junction, there have been no recorded injury accidents. Please note that the injury accident records are currently up-to-date to 31st December 2017, so the accident described in your e-mail below at the B3004/Passfield Road junction would not be included in these records at the present time. I will contact the Police with a view to obtaining initial details of this accident and subsequently determining whether or not engineering measures would be appropriate on this occasion. I will also contact the Police regarding whether or not the signing of the existing speed limits in the Passfield area is enforceable. Ian Janes Traffic Management (East Hampshire & Havant) Economy, Transport & Environment Department Hampshire County Council -------------------------------------------- For those sites which are outside of the scope of the County Council’s injury accident/casualty reduction-led policy, the County Council now operates a community funded traffic management initiative whereby external parties, such as Parish/Town Councils and residents associations/groups of residents, can fund the provision of straightforward minor TM measures (such as white fences/gates with 30mph signs) – for your information, I have attached a copy of the community funded initiative pamphlet and introductory notes. Ian Janes Traffic Management (East Hampshire & Havant) Economy, Transport & Environment Department Hampshire County Council --------------------------------------------

Re: RTA Passfield - Passfield resident (3rd Jul 2019 - 16:40:34) I have lived in Passfield for a long time and have to pull out onto that road daily. The current average speed through Passfield is 50-60, often more. I have seen schoolchildren have near misses crossing to the school bus stop on a regular basis and have had cars nearly slamming into the back of me as I stop to turn down one of the residential tracks many times. I have learnt to considerably slow the traffic behind me before stopping to turn off the main road near the shop, but even then cars peel off at speed down the Hollywater Road and cars immediately behind them then accelerate, not knowing I am ahead and stationary in the main road waiting to turn off. I have literally had cars skidding around me because they arre going way too fast. Cars pulling onto the main road from the Hollwater Road from Whitehill are often very aggressive in the mornings. Passfield should absolutely be a village 30, not a 40 with a 50/60 plus average.

Re: RTA Passfield - PR (3rd Jul 2019 - 18:10:19) My point entirely about the Mercedes driver - tried to name and shame but Mr Editor approve this not - WHY ????? Dash Cam footage with HantsPol

Re: RTA Passfield - Bob (4th Jul 2019 - 09:38:29) Its nothing to do with the junction its the people driving the cars. put a person behind the wheel of a car and if they cant drive properly accidents happen. i use that road every day for work and I've seen some right idiots. people take care and don't drive like complete idiots.

Re: RTA Passfield - SA (4th Jul 2019 - 10:18:36) Bob - sadly not everyone is a perfect driver like you and so it is very much to do with the junction. People see the speed limit go up as they enter Passfield and the long straight road and see it as an opportunity to overtake. The put their foot down and then a car turns out of one of the many side roads and tracks and BANG. Some simple measures would prevent all this carnage: - An island (which would also help people cross the road to the shop) - A 30mph speed limit - No overtaking double white lines. The latter two would not cost very much and would make Passfield much safer, just like every other village. Why does the council have to encourage dangerous driving through Passfield?

Re: RTA Passfield - Passfield Resident (4th Jul 2019 - 10:46:22) Bob, it is everything to do with everything - the drivers, the junction, everything - combine the lot and it is an accident/ near-accident hot spot, whether the council think so or not. Combine a long straight road, with a junction where three side roads meet the main road, a school bus stop and speeding drivers and it is dangerous. Those of us who live here and use those junctions/the main road multiple times a day every day know that. So it is everything, junctions and idiot drivers combined, most of the day every day.

Re: RTA Passfield - oldie (4th Jul 2019 - 10:55:46) SA you are 100% right. With fast cars and shockingly fast cars on the road as standard, being sold to anybody from teenagers on their first proper job, or school run mums to double glazing salesmen late for their next high pressure commission job, there is no way we can entrust people's lives to everybody's common sense and good nature behind the wheel! Even the calmest driver can become a bad driver for 10 seconds and pull out on somebody or rush a bit too fast to make their doctors appointment, whatever, the variables are just too great. So the sensible way is to design safety into the junction, whatever the stats show, it is a hairy junction and your measures sound quite reasonable.

Re: RTA Passfield - Ali (4th Jul 2019 - 10:55:57) I tend to agree with bob here.IT is the drivers responsibility.Surely they know their highway code.It all comes down to speed and not paying enough attention.If you cant drive properly you shouldnt be on the roads,so dont go blaming junctions.simple answer put a speed camera up thatl’ll slow them down.

Re: RTA Passfield - SA (4th Jul 2019 - 12:06:38) Ali - There is no point in having speed cameras until the speed limit has been reduced to at least that of every other village. The way it actually increases as you enter Passfield is taken as permission and encouragement to accelerate.

Re: RTA Passfield - dave (4th Jul 2019 - 12:13:33) Well said Bob and Ali, lets do away with speed limits and road markings and traffic police and rely on everyone's considerate driving - haha

Re: RTA Passfield - Penny Williamson (4th Jul 2019 - 12:33:09) @ Passfield Resident I am totally against speeding – drivers should observe speed limits at all times and I agree it is infuriating and potentially dangerous when one is keeping to the speed limit and cars overtake. However I am a little puzzled about your statement that you have had cars nearly slamming into the back of you as you stop to turn down one of the residential tracks many times. If you are signalling and slowing down in good time before turning off the road thereby giving adequate notice that you are intending to turn, then I cannot understand cars nearly slamming into the back of you. For the record I absolutely agree with Bob. The junction would not be a problem if drivers drove safely and considerately.

Re: RTA Passfield - Jim (4th Jul 2019 - 13:04:56) These things happen penny. Drivers are only human. Roads should be made safe to allow for human failings, lapses of concentration etc. We aren't all as perfect as you so please show a little tolerance.

Re: RTA Passfield - SA (4th Jul 2019 - 13:13:23) Penny Part of the problem is that the council in their wisdom permit and encourage people to go fast through Passfield by raising the speed limit as you enter the village. It could all be avoided if the council treated Passfield like every other town and village: - 30mph - Entrance gates with 'Please drive carefully' sign - Traffic Island - No overtaking The policeman at the scene told me that the police had been on to the council for years to put a chicane in as it was such an accident black spot.

Re: RTA Passfield - Passfield resident2 (4th Jul 2019 - 13:28:06) I underpin the same sentiment as @passfield resident,Penny Williamson. There are so many near misses when attempting a turn into one of the unmarked tracks. Vans in particular tail gating towards Liphook,driving without care / consideration,often on the phone / eating at the wheel...!! All of this has to be taken into consideration when turning off this now busy & noisy road. Penny you clearly haven`t experienced regularly so many of these careles /reckless drivers,and so lack empathy with this issue. Vans /cars regularly sounding their horns,when they have to slow down behind,or try to pass when the road is not clear,or there is no clear visibility. A real lack of patience especially on the home time drive,from so many will result in near misses or worse accidents.l I lost 2 tyres after heing forced into a track to get out of the way of white van man tail gating,despite my indicator being on,slowing down,he was on the mobile and not paying attention,so he drives on,my tyres rip as they hit a ridge @ 25mph,all so he wouldnt go into the rear of me. Hes not the only one,many others,often lLiphook locals,numbers /names of local businesses on the side all racing along. The sooner traffic calming measures are put in place the better,but its a bit like broadband here,we could be on Mars......

Re: RTA Passfield - Joyce (4th Jul 2019 - 13:56:28) @Penny Williamson, I'm a pedestrian who has to cross the road to get to the shop. I don't carry indicators. It would be lovely if there were a crossing in the village.

Re: RTA Passfield - bob (4th Jul 2019 - 13:58:08) We could solve two problems at once by moving the A3 cycle race to Passfield :-)

Re: RTA Passfield - dave (4th Jul 2019 - 15:03:56) Robyn-Ellen France, 18, a student from Fleet, was killed when her green Vauxhall Corsa collided with a blue BMW and then seconds later with a red Peugeot 306, travelling in the opposite direction, at the junction of Hollywater Road and Headley Road last Thursday night, April 5, just before 8pm. (www.farnhamherald.com/...) Of course it was the drivers fault, but had the council accepted that they too have a responsibility to make roads safe and treated Passfield like every other village (30, no overtaking, traffic island etc) then she might be alive today and there might not have been the succession of subsequent RTAs since. When that young lad got killed in Hollywater (www.bbc.co.uk/news/...) they made Hollywater a 30 zone, but the same does not seem to apply in Passfield. My on-going condolences to both families.

Re: RTA Passfield - Passfield Resident (4th Jul 2019 - 16:29:25) Penny Williamson - why is there always someone on here who has to argue! I am not an idiot driver! I have daily experience of this junction for nearly 2 decades! Picture the scene - I am driving at 40 or less from Liphook. When I get to Passfield Road (the one that runs to Headley) I start slowing even more so that I come to a full standstill by the shop turning right into the residential track. A car behind me accelerates off to the left up the Hollywater Road, which they can do because it is a curved junction, designed a few years ago to speed up traffic. The cars behind them, who cannot until that moment see I am stationary, haven’t slowed down through Passfield and nearly slam into the back of me/swerve around me. I have done nothing wrong. They have. End of discussion.

Re: RTA Passfield - Paul (4th Jul 2019 - 17:21:12) Earlier in this thread the response from HCC states that upon request they investigated the 5 year accident history of roads in Passfield - and with the exception of the incident which they note fell outside their timescales they stated it didn't have a significant accident history. Their words, not mine. I commute on that road. If anything, with increasing numbers of cars on the roads the speeds seem to be falling, and it's very rare to see anyone overtaking. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I can't recall the last time I've seen anyone speeding or overtaking along that stretch. The vast majority of motorists using the road seem to be obeying the speed limits from what I've experienced. But we're all likely to remember the speeders and nutters, right?

Re: RTA Passfield - jim (4th Jul 2019 - 17:48:23) Paul try driving there when its not commute time and you will see what we are all on about. This RTA and most of the others happen outside of commute time as the oncoming road has to be clear to overtake, or at least appear so.

Re: RTA Passfield - Alfredos Jones (4th Jul 2019 - 18:24:37) Local traffic management should listen to local people. Very few drivers consider every eventuality when out driving whether that be near hazards or not. A lot of people are outright dangerous drivers!

Re: RTA Passfield - Dawn Hoskins (4th Jul 2019 - 18:43:38) Just wait until the overflow cars from the new development start parking on the Hollywater Road - then you'll see the death toll increase. I can't believe it is over 5 years since that young 18-year old lad died opposite Lynchborough Raod, it may be more than 5 since the other 18 girls was killed though. There have been 2 other deaths in the 20 years we have been here. That doesn't include the number of pedestrians hit and non-fatal car crashes. It makes me crazy that some areas get calming and Passfield doesn't - look at the mini-roundabout in Lindford for example. No one died there.

Re: RTA Passfield - Passfield Resident (4th Jul 2019 - 19:04:33) Paul - I live here. I can see cars speeding as we speak. I can hear speeding cars and motorbikes as I lie in bed. I get to hear the crunch of accidents - I have picked cyclists off the grass verge as they have been hit, motorbikes, little old ladies in crashed cars and sadly lived here during two fatalities. Most crashes aren’t reported, they just end up as insurance claims, so the council figures are wrong. I would say at least half the cars along the main road speed. I commend you for not speeding, you are in the nice half, but others do all day every day. Just because you, on your few trips past, don’t see it doesn’t mean that all those of us who suffer from the speeding idiots are wrong. It’s infuriating - those of us who live in Passfield, whose children cross the road to the bus, who have been hit or nearly hit by speeding cars know it should be a village 30 to keep people safe. It is really no one else’s business. A decrease of 10mph on that short stretch will mean nothing to you on your daily journey as you quickly (40mph) pass through. Why must people who don’t live here be so quick to deny what the residents know to be the case. It’s like me saying that no one ever ever speeds near where you live because I haven’t seen it. Infuriating!

Re: RTA Passfield - Willo (4th Jul 2019 - 23:00:44) I live on the same road but in Standford which is marked as a 30 but it's mostly ignored by the majority of drivers. Many also don't realise that a lot of deer are living in the woods alongside the road. Last week a female deer was killed by a car and left on the pavement, the orphaned baby left behind is fending for itself in the woods, as sad as that is I guess it could have been worse and been another loss of human life. I make a point of sticking to or below the limit, I get a lot of grief for it but do my best to ignore them. Oddly this time of night around 11pm and early morning around 7am are consistently bad. Wish we could get some speed cameras as no amount of talking about it is going to make a jot of difference.

Re: RTA Passfield - Simon (5th Jul 2019 - 08:58:47) It nearly happened again last night and to me ! I turned out of the track by the shop to go to Liphook and just after I did a car decided to overtake a car coming from Liphook and so coming straight for me on my side of the road with very little warning. Fortunately I managed to swerve onto the verge to avoid a head on collision. I'm not saying the car was doing more than 40 but he was on my side of the road at a time when I wanted to be there. Shaken but OK.

Re: RTA Passfield - Paul (5th Jul 2019 - 16:07:41) It sounds from what people are saying that most of the speeding is happening outside of peak commuting time then. Presumably more (commuting) traffic means slower speeds and less desire / opportunity to overtake?

Re: RTA Passfield - Helen (5th Jul 2019 - 17:31:37) I had this happen yesterday in Puttenham. I think driving standards have deteriotated over the last few years everywhere not just in Passfield.

Re: RTA Passfield - Julian (5th Jul 2019 - 17:44:26) There are many good points here. Are there any locals interested in getting together to take this further? It is a serious issue. Other communities have achieved safer environments by working together and obtaining funding to implement traffic calming and signage. Let me know. Thanks.

Re: RTA Passfield - Passfield Resident (5th Jul 2019 - 17:51:00) Hi Paul Not sure where you got that from - we’ve repeatedly said it happens all day and that school children have had near misses crossing the road (in rush hour commuter time). Rush hour commuter time is awful. As soon as people round the bend from Standford (which also had speeding as Standford resident said), they see the straight and put their foot down. Please just understand speeding happens all day every day.

Re: RTA Passfield - Dawn Hoskins (5th Jul 2019 - 20:14:00) Had a near miss with and 18 plate Nissan Qashqai this morning at about 10:30. Drivers who are barreling along Haollywater Road at 60+ just do not appreciate that there may be stationary traffic or slow moving traffic entering/exiting Lynchbourough Road. I am always very careful, particularly at this time of year because of the height of the vegetation, I even roll down the windows and turn the radio off just to see if I can hear any vehicles coming, but ultimately we have very limited visibility when pulling out due to the bend. Any fast-moving cars that may be with us in mere seconds are still hidden around the corner when we are pulling out (that's why the 18-year-old lad died at this location). The driver of the Qashqai was beeping his horn and waving his arms around like a mad-man. I suppose they think that we are deliberately moving slowly and making them slam the anchors on?

Re: RTA Passfield - Nicola (5th Jul 2019 - 20:26:03) Tried to do something about it years ago when I was on the local council. Managed to get the speed limit down to 40mph. They refused 30mph due to the housing frontage to the road (not enough) and the pedestrian island was refused due to not enough footfall. Good luck.

Re: RTA Passfield - Simon (5th Jul 2019 - 23:56:09) Paul - My near miss yesterday was at 6pm

Re: RTA Passfield - Passfield Resident (8th Jul 2019 - 21:10:47) Flashing speed limit signs in Passfield today.

Re: RTA Passfield - Neil (15th Jul 2019 - 21:27:13) Sadly those flashing signs do absolutely nothing. They’ve had them on headley road and London road in Liphook and 90% cars still speed along them.

Re: RTA Passfield - Peter Fewings (16th Jul 2019 - 08:11:23) Interestingly I came up behind a car that had just turned onto the road from the cottages (shop was closed so I suspect it was a resident) who by the time we got to the Conford turn was doing over 45mph and still accelerating away from me.

Re: RTA Passfield - Passfield resident2 (16th Jul 2019 - 12:47:20) Peter,and your point is exactly ? I made my point alot earlier in this thread. Its other drivers driving without due care and attention that will inevitably cause accidents,in Passfield,not the residents ! Cuts to resources mean consequences,sometimes with tragic results. Until the highways get involved and undertake some measures,even as simple as a single white line with a speed reduction nothing will change. Its like a ticking bomb.....until the next one.

Re: RTA Passfield - Passfield Resident (16th Jul 2019 - 15:03:42) Peter, Indeed what is your point. People speed through Passfield. It is a 40 not a 30 so people drive too fast. Exactly what we are saying. I don’t know who the person was - perhaps they had posted a letter, used the track as a cut through, been visiting, or indeed, as you are implying, are a speeding resident of Passfield! Whoever they were they were speeding and that is our exact point - the road is prone to speeding and is dangerous.

Re: RTA Passfield - Pete (16th Jul 2019 - 15:31:04) My point being that if even a resident cannot abide by the speed limit in their own village I don't hold out much hope of change. Your reply to me "Its other drivers driving without due care and attention that will inevitably cause accidents,in Passfield,not the residents !" is in doubt. Personally I just think its mad that people cant negotiate a long straight road with a junction at 40 mph to such a degree that people are now looking to take it down to a 30 which I doubt will have any effect anyway. If real speed cameras and traps are put up people accuse the powers that be of using it as a cash cow (which I have never understood) so they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. I do think the traffic island suggestion though would be a very viable way of making people pay attention and helping people cross.

Re: RTA Passfield - Passfield resident2 (16th Jul 2019 - 22:15:40) Pete, "A long straight road with a junction" ... Have you counted the junctions,both marked and unmarked ? If so your maths is poor !!... Or you are on the wrong road,I think.

Re: RTA Passfield - Pete (17th Jul 2019 - 08:03:39) Passfield resident I hope you understand my point from my reply I am not defending or castigating anyone apart from the resident that was pulling away from me at speed (I would be fairly certain it is a resident as the car is always there in the evenings). Passfield resident 2 Sorry but I think you are being a bit pedantic I was referring to the particular segment of road that seems to have the problem by the shop but if you feel the need to pick holes go ahead. I am very familiar with the road I have been using it 4 times a day 6 days a week for the past 12 years.

Re: RTA Passfield - Passfield Resident (17th Jul 2019 - 08:23:45) Pete, Why do your opinions count more than those of us who live in Passfield and have nearly been mown down/ploughed into the back of/dangerously overtaken/cut up by speeding idiots on countless occasions every day. Those of us who have helped people after accidents and seen schoolchildren nearly knocked over? So what, you saw one person pulling out of Passfield (not necessarily a Resident) and speeding and on those grounds it should remain a fast road? Because 40 or not, it is a fast road, because people see 40 and think 50/60. In a 30 people take more care and are less likely to speed. What must you argue when the point is safety? What does it really matter to you? An extra minute on your drive past? I would rather that than dodge daily idiots as I try to pull into my road. A 30 in a residential area is the norm - it isn’t something to be argued over. Passfield Resident 2 is right, the junction is actually 3 roads (busy even if 2 of them are tracks) jointing the main road at one point, with 2 other residential tracks and a side road joining just further along. Perhaps you haven’t seen these as you whiz through?

Re: RTA Passfield - Pete (17th Jul 2019 - 09:02:10) You are obviously not reading my posts correctly or not wanting to. For your info I do not speed through your village just the same as I dont through my own, I don't whiz anywhere. I have not said that traffic calming isn't a good idea but I do believe that a lower speed limit will be ignored just as it is now.

Re: RTA Passfield - Passfield Resident (17th Jul 2019 - 09:55:31) Pete, I think our last two messages overlapped ‘in the post’. Thank you for confirming that you think traffic calming in some sort would be beneficial.

Re: RTA Passfield - Pete1968 (17th Jul 2019 - 18:22:23) There is no problem with the speed limit just the idiots who pull out of the junction I bet the passfield residents are worst at it No need for reducing the speed limit or traffic calming in some way

Re: RTA Passfield - Passfield Resident (17th Jul 2019 - 20:05:58) Pete1968 you are obviously trolling to rile people up again, please go away.

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