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MD of SWT to visit Liphook - Finchie (2nd Feb 2005 - 16:34:49) Mark your diaries folks... Wed 9th of March between 7pm and 9pm, Andrew Haines, MD for South West Trains will be visiting Liphook for an "informal" meeting with local Liphook train users. Location to be arranged. I know from the response to our notice at the station that over 60 people said they would be interested in a meeting - so now is our chance (including Shazza, Bazza and Kazza who scrawled over the notice - I expect to see you there !) The objective is simply to continue open dialogue with SWT at the highest level so that Andrew directly hears our concerns as well as providing a forum for direct feedback from SWT to ourselves. Hopefully this will be the first of a series of meetings. I suggest that we post questions on this thread that we give Andrew a couple of weeks beforehand so that he can provide some answers and the session is more productive than just us voicing concerns. I know there will be plenty, but I'll kick of with a few:- 1/ What has been the performance with the new timetable in Jan and Feb compared to last year ? ! 2/ What was the outcome of the loading analysis done in January, and are there sufficient volume of Liphook users to categorise Liphook as a "Major" station, similar to Haslemere ? 3/ When will something be done about the void in the evening service to Liphook after 6:15pm from Waterloo ? And, I have heard some horror stories for January e.g. the cancellation of the 06:40, bussing everybody to Haslemere for the 7:?? and a 4 carriage train pitched up. Cheers, Finchie

Re: MD of SWT to visit Liphook - rob (3rd Feb 2005 - 21:28:39) Finchie Well done! I'll be there. One question: on what data did SWT decide there were fewer commuters wanting to travel from Liphook now than two or three years ago? And if they don't have such data, why have they decided so drastically to cut our morning and evening services in favour of Haslemere and Petersfield? Another question: is it SWT's policy routinely to cancel Liphook trains if morning services into London are delayed (presumably so they can make up time for Haslemere and Waterloo)? [This morning I got to the station to discover they'd "cancelled" the 0728. Only at 0730 they reinstated it ("because the 0745 was going to be even more delayed than the expected 13 minutes" so the station announcement said). So actually what they'd planned to do was not to stop the fast train at Liphook and to let it just sail by us all. Conclusion: they really do think we're worse than second class citizens. Why?] I've just received the following reply from Andrew Haines to a steaming e-mail I sent him a week or so ago. It says nothing of any worth. But it does show how confused they are; and how the driving force for them has absolutely nothing to do with customers. Reading his letter from a customer perspective (he clearly didn't manage that exercise himself before he signed it) leaves one completely cold. It only confirms his view that we silly so-and-sos who chose to invest in living in Liphook were very short sighted. See you next week. Rob. Letter from A Haines: Thank you for your email of 19 January, which has been forwarded to me from Rosemary Zonneveld, assistant to the Rt. Hon. James Arbuthnot MP. Please accept my apologies for the delay in replying to you whilst this crossover took place. I was very sorry and concerned to learn of your frustration with the service you have received of late, whilst travelling between Liphook and London Waterloo, and that you feel our recast timetable is to blame. I requested a running report showing the performance of the 07.28 from Liphook to Waterloo for the month of January 2005. The overall performance since the start of the year has not been particularly good and I very much regret the inconvenience and frustration you have experienced. To address your specific concerns, on 19 January (the day with the odd train formation), whilst the train was slightly late on arrival it actually arrived at Waterloo on time and not 5 late, as you state. During the evening peak, the 19.00 service to Portsmouth (changing at Haslemere for Liphook) was cancelled on the 19 January due to a train failure. The week commencing on 24 January has also not been good for the morning peak services on the mainline in general and we are actively addressing this issue at present. The problem is a result of a number of reasons, but particularly speed restrictions in the Surbiton area due to track works. Such restrictions, whilst only delaying the services by a minute or two, can very quickly cause the trains to queue on their entry to Waterloo. This precipitates regulating decisions by the signalers controlling the line and there is further work going on to support them in the making. Whilst the current performance of the 0728 is far from perfect I am concerned that you appear to be linking this issue with the new timetable from Liphook. I note that you have drawn several comparisons from the old and new timetable. The new timetable cannot easily be compared to the old timetable, as this is a total re-write, the entire timetable has changed because the old one simply could not work. The old timetable lacked any flexibility, if there was disruption there was no clear contingency planning that could be implemented to recover disrupted services quickly. The way that individual timetables worked alongside each other was not helpful when trying to prevent congestion into the London area. The only way to improve our performance for customers was to start afresh and write a timetable that considers the departure, arrival time and every passing point of every train we operate and the affects that each train has on the network. Reference your comments on train performance at the end of the first few weeks of the new timetable the improvement in our performance has been demonstrated. Our overall performance is up by almost 15% compared to the same period last year. Improving performance for all our customers is our absolute top priority and whilst I can appreciate that you are frustrated the services you used to use no longer exist we have to offer our customers a service that is punctual. I do accept though that the 0720 has been indifferent. It is a problem at Liphook and Liss with short platforms etc where only the front 5 carriages can be accommodated on the platform (especially in the morning peak, where the rear carriages are likely to be the ones with more spare seats available). On the odd occasion, where a mixed 444/450 combination is used, this compounds the problem. On 19 January only the doors on the front 4 coaches could be opened. I agree this is far from ideal, but clearly better than running as a 5 car train only and further exacerbating the overcrowding issue. We are working hard to deliver consistently reliable service and I do hope this information has been of use to you. Please accept my further apologies and thank you again for taking the time to write to me. Yours sincerely Andrew Haines Managing Director

Re: MD of SWT to visit Liphook - Dave Roberts (8th Feb 2005 - 21:06:33) Hi I've read your Liphook email threads with great interest and support given that I live just up the line at Milford and have been experiencing similar frustrations with SWT and their new timetable. Are you aware of any other MIlford / Witley websites that cover this issue and can help us to represent our stations vs SWT. Would appreciate any feedback you may have. Cheers Dave

Re: MD of SWT to visit Liphook - Nick Hancock (10th Feb 2005 - 14:21:18) Well done Finchie! Come on all you commuters - where are your questions? (Or maybe they just weren't printable!) Mine is very specific to me: why is it no longer possible for the morning fast trains from Haslemere to stop at Godalming? Forcing me to stay on the slow train at Haslemere in order to get to Godalming has doubled the length of my rail journey (as I have previously explained on this site at laborious length ... ). (It does make you wonder whether SWT actually checked travel patterns before imposing their new timetable - which seems to have been written entirely from their point of view. There are quite a lot of passengers at Liphook in the mornings who buy tickets to Godalming.) Make sure you're all there in strength on the 9th! Nick

Re: MD of SWT to visit Liphook - Liz (11th Feb 2005 - 12:36:05) Many thanks Finchie for all your work to date..... Here are a couple of questions Andrew Haines may wish to consider.... 1) In a previous reply from SWT they referred to 'bunching' of passengers around 7am on weedays. I can only assume that means large numbers of people wish to travel at that time. Why then is there no London train from Liphook between 6.41am and 7.19 am? This is a huge gap for a peak period. 2)In Mr Haines letter posted by Rob, he refers to the short platforms at Liphook. These have been extended since the introduction of the new trains. If the platforms are not long enough, why not? And finally... I was told by SWT in the past that the 6.00pm from Waterloo could not be extended from Haslemere to Liphook. Fortunately this was incorrect. - So I hope Mr Haines has time to do his homework before the meeting!

Re: MD of SWT to visit Liphook - Mike Grimes (12th Feb 2005 - 01:16:21) Most of the focus has been on the changes to services in the morning and evening peak times but, although I usually do, not all of us travel at those times. Although the off-peak service has, essentially, not been reduced by the new timetable, no account seems to have been taken of the population changes since the original timetable was cast in the 1960's either. Haslemere has a population of 11,000+ and enjoys 4 trains per hour off-peak to and from London (3 per hour to and from the Portsmouth area) whilst Liphook (pop. 8,000+) only enjoys one. This figure excludes Bordon which connects into Liphook by Rail Coach Link. I am sure that 'Loading' figures will show that Haselmere attracts more passengers but the main reason for this might be the disproportionate number of trains that stop there and the fact that it offers two fast services per hour each way to Liphook's none. I have regularly seen people arrive at Liphook station intending to catch a southbound service that has just arrived but they fail to get across the bridge due to the sheer weight of numbers leaving the train. Bad luck for cutting it too fine, perhaps, but very bad luck having to wait another hour or so for the next service. Anyway, my request to Mr Haines would be that the 30 min. past the hour fast ex. Waterloo and the 45 min past the hour ex. Portsmouth stop additionally at Liphook. Small cost - big gain.

Re: MD of SWT to visit Liphook - John Allison (20th Feb 2005 - 16:30:40) Could the MD please explain why the platforms at Liphook are not being extended to take the new trains? Liphook is growing rapidly and demand is clearly increasing. A minor extension to the London-bound platform was made in next to no time . This platform currently takes at least 7 carriages if not 8 and I see no reason why it could not be extended to take the remaining 2 thus speeding up boarding times and freeing the guards from their annoying and unhelpful whistle-blowing at people who can't board any faster anyway- particularly galling given the 4 minute wait now built in at Guildford. Also why is it not possible for more off-peak services to stop at Liphook? My children work/attend college at Petersfield and Havant - the train service amounts to 1 per hour only. The price of an annual ticket has risen by more than 200 pounds yet the service is far less frequent and certainly no more punctual. On the positive side the new 10 coach grey trains are very good , thankfully the blue trains are not being used - they proved very uncomfortable when used on these long journeys, regards John

Re: MD of SWT to visit Liphook - rob barnard-smith (21st Feb 2005 - 16:40:39) ''Dear Sirs, I'm sure you've already heard from other disgruntled commuters, however I wanted to add my twopenny worth to the pot. SWT operates like the complete antithesis to the UK's leading retail stores (Asda/Tesco/Sainsbury/B&Q) who pride themselves on ''get more, for less'' and ''value for money''. Liphook commuters have the following slogan..''pay more, get less & get old stock!!!'' Yesterday, the 06.41 Liphook 'express' was cancelled (previous occasion @ 28.01.2005 so far as I am aware). Please confirm the reason for this. No taxis were provided for us to get to Haslemere, so I had to wait for the next service @ 07.19 - which obviously meant I was late to my office. More annoyingly, I was late for a 8am interview which I was due to conduct. Equally annoying, Liphook commuters then watched in amazement (kick a man when he's down, why don't you!) as a train came up the line and just went straight on to Haslemere, virtually empty! What was this train and why didn't the Controller stop it? Friends of mine caught this @ Haslemere and said it was empty and got into Waterloo c. 07.50. One person asked why it didn't stop @ Liphook and got a very surly/aggressive reply from the guard. Other commuters went back home and then drove to Haslemere to catch the 07.02 up service. They spoke with a platform attendant @ Haslemere, who basically said the new timetable meant ''tough luck'' for Liphook/Liss commuters as SWT priority was to the timetable and not to commuters!! Interestingly, today we made an additional stop @ Worplesdon due to previous service problems - to pick up at least 1 man and his dog!! Why was this sanctioned? I have previously pointed out to Andrew just how inflexible the recast timetable is, especially when there is a problem, and this again highlights just that point. We all moved to the area based on an existing level of service, which in all likelihood we expected to improve over time as the area and the number of commuters grew. Not only have you slashed our services, but when there is a problem, we just get completely ignored and treated with contempt and disdain. It is imperative for us that SWT at least operate the services we have scheduled in the printed timetable. I am just about to renew my season ticket for c.£3,000, as I have no other real means of getting to work. I feel most aggrieved that I have to 'subsidise' other commuters who travel in from so called 'major' (SWT terminology, not mine!) stations. No other utility/service provider operates in such a fashion, e.g. the Post Office…you get equal service for a first class stamp, wherever it is posted in the country, and wherever it is going to. Andrew knows I have raised the issue of fare structures commensurate with the level of service. I have always believed in life that you get what you pay for, however with SWT that theory is heavily tested! There is a move afoot amongst commuters to pursue the route of legal action against SWT for unfair trade, etc, etc. I look forward to hearing from you shortly. Good weekend.'' An e-mail I sent last Friday to SWT in an 'angry moment' - I'll let you know the reply!!

Re: MD of SWT to visit Liphook - Alex Cameron (22nd Feb 2005 - 09:24:55) You might also want to point out that in 2004, South West Trains' public subsidy (granted by the 'Strategic' Rail Authority) rose by 250% to £170 million, up from £48 million in 2003. This was apparently to cover the introduction of new rolling stock. We (i.e. the tazpayer) are not only paying the ordinary service, but also funding the risk associated with their corporate ventures, whilst Stagecoach (owners of SWT) get the return.

Re: MD of SWT to visit Liphook - Paul Robinson (22nd Feb 2005 - 12:33:38) Are we really surprised by this? During a recent radio 4 interview I heard one middle management spokesman for one of the operators saying that the extent of their input into the running of their trains was choosing the colour of the seat fabrics and the menu in the buffet cars!

Re: MD of SWT to visit Liphook - Nick Hancock (24th Feb 2005 - 13:01:24) Do we have a venue for this meeting yet? Nick

Re: MD of SWT to visit Liphook - Finchie (25th Feb 2005 - 08:39:50) We have the Millenium Hall - Canada Room on Wednesday 9th March - courtesy to the Local Council (Thanks John). TIME CHANGE: 8pm to 10pm A notice will go up in the Station on Monday. Cheers, Finchie

Re: MD of SWT to visit Liphook - A (28th Feb 2005 - 13:18:40) From the BBC website today and also on SWT website. Aren't they clever meeting their targets with our great new train service! One of Britain's busiest rail services claims to have cut delays by 15%. South West Trains, which re-wrote its timetable from top to bottom in December, said the number of trains on time had risen to 90% from 75%. The changes provided more time to load passengers in busy stations and for trains to turn at the end of a route. But the company admitted the changes also meant longer journeys for some commuters and that some smaller stops had been removed from the timetable. Some passengers believe all the company had done is increase its official journey times so punctuality targets are easier to meet. BBC transport correspondent Tom Symonds said other companies may now copy the moves. He said: "Tinkering with timetables is a method train companies are increasingly using to make their services run on time." South West Trains operates services in southern England and the West country.

Re: MD of SWT to visit Liphook - Liz (1st Mar 2005 - 12:02:07) Rob Barnard-Smith may (or may not!) wish to know that, according to the guard on what should have been the 6.41 from Liphook on 17 Feb, the train didn't stop at Rowlands Castle, Petersfield, Liss or Liphook as it was ordered not to stop by the controller because it was running 15 minutes late. Presumably it had to reach Haslemere on time to meet its 'punctuality' targets. I sent an e-mail to SWT complaining about what I regarded as unpleasant cynicism - ie meeting 'targets' by not stopping to pick up passengers. I have not, of course, received a reply other than the automated response which promises a proper reply within a maximum of 10 days. I very much appreciate the recent modifications to the new timetable and Andrew Haines taking the time to meet Liphook commuters. However this does feel like begging crumbs from the masters table and I am rapidly losing patience. We have the same dirty, smelly old trains which may or may not stop at Liphook, a significant reduction in service and no apparent improvement in punctuality. On top of this SWT's 'customer relations' department can't be bothered. If SWT had any real competition it would not be able to behave in this manner.

Re: MD of SWT to visit Liphook - Alex Cameron (4th Mar 2005 - 17:57:11) Some useful email addresses to put complaints to: South West Trains - Andrew Haines, Managing Director AHaines@swtrains.co.uk Network Rail - John Armitt, Chief Executive john.armitt@networkrail.co.uk Stagecoach - Brian Souter, Chief Executive brian.souter@stagecoachgroup.com Minister For Transport - Alistair Darling alistair.darling@dft.gsi.gov.uk

Re: MD of SWT to visit Liphook - S (7th Mar 2005 - 09:12:45) Telegram to Mr Darling Darling stop, please please sort out the trains darling STOP, get all trains that pass Liphook Darling to...STOP Thanks Darling STOP

Re: MD of SWT to visit Liphook - rob barnard-smith (8th Mar 2005 - 11:45:23) Dear Mr Barnard-Smith, I'd like to introduce myself as researcher to James Arbuthnot. I'm afraid I don't have a contact telephone number for you, otherwise I would call. James has just been notified that he needs to be in London tomorrow night, as there is a 3 line whip on a vote of national importance, and cannot get away. He is terribly apologetic, and sends his apologies as he would very much like to attend the meeting. However, he hopes it goes well, and is sure that communication between South West Trains and the community will be greatly enhanced by the meeting. Things are getting better but there is scope for a bit more in the way of making travel more convenient for the commuters. Do telephone me if you have any questions, as I am happy to help, and only too sorry to have to give you this news so close to the meeting. If you would like to let me know how the meeting went, and what more James can do to help. I'd be grateful to you. With kind regards Janet Walker Researcher to James Arbuthnot MP, Shadow Secretary of State for Trade E: walkerja@parliament.uk T: 020 7219 5281 Just recd from JA's researcher. See you all at the meeting!

Re: MD of SWT to visit Liphook - Alex Cameron (8th Mar 2005 - 15:36:19) I'd suggest a reply along the lines of: "Dear Janet - you seem like a nice person. We put James there in the first place, so we'd appreciate it if he got his finger out. If he can't make it, i'd suggest he send someone to the meeting so they can brief him while he's running up expenses in the first-class carriage on his way home. Everyone knows he's going to vote on the party line, so perhaps you could get someone to fill in his ballot for him. Much love, The entire population of James' constituency."

Re: MD of SWT to visit Liphook - Finchie (9th Mar 2005 - 11:58:08) Reminder: Tonight at 8:00pm Millenium Hall, Canada Room. As well as Andrew Haines we will have representatives from Network Rail to adddress the platform issue. Nice to see Arbuthnot's taking the issue as seriously as he always has - 3 line whip or not - back to "keeping an eye" on the situation - he really should start seeking another constituency for May ! Look forward to seeing you all there. Cheers, Finchie

Re: MD of SWT to visit Liphook - Andrew Smith (9th Mar 2005 - 12:49:56) Have just heard and seen that Mr Arbuthnot cannot make it. Suggest his parliamnetary/constituency agent be asked to replace him. Also, noting the reason for Mr Arbuthnot's absence as a 3 line whipped vote on an issue of national importance, I thought this worth checking with the parliamentary timetable (commonsleader.gov.uk). There does not appear to be a debate listed for tonight. Perhaps this could be clarified with Mr Arbuthnot's office?!

Re: MD of SWT to visit Liphook - Mike Grimes (9th Mar 2005 - 23:20:29) The 'Lock 'em up without trial' bill was due to be voted on at 19:00 this evening. However I heard on Radio 4 this morning that there was also to be a preview of the first episode of the new Doctor Who series in the house tonight and you cannot be paired for that.

Re: MD of SWT to visit Liphook - Nick Hancock (10th Mar 2005 - 09:32:38) Mark, thanks to you and Alison both for setting up last night's excellent meeting and also for the detailed thought that you put into running it. You even got James Arbuthnot to turn up (or maybe that was because of what was said about him on this thread!). Thinking over what was said, I wonder whether we may have underplayed one important argument on the "morning hole" point. Andrew Haines said that he couldn't stop an extra train at Liphook (I forget the time of the train) because it was already overcrowded when it left Guildford. The reply from the floor was that there were already four trains an hour from Guildford; Andrew responded to that by saying that there was massively more demand for trains from Guildford than from Liphook. Unless I missed something, we rather let it rest at that. But isn't the point that passengers from Guildford have plenty of other choices if they find that their train is too crowded, whilst we from Liphook don't have another train at all? I wasn't sure that we really got that answer across - perhaps it's worth mentioning when you summarise our views to him. Forgive me if it's already in your summary, though! Nick

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