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Parish council why do we pay for them? - Justin (24th Nov 2010 - 13:08:25) I realise that the Parish Councillors are not paid and give up time volunarily, but do the decisions they make which affect us, which come out of OUR council tax, represent value for money? After the last full meeting, we realise that there is something very wrong, What is going on? Please all attend this Mondays meeting. Why are there sessions which seem to relate to extra cash payments again? Is this a repeat of the extra payment which went out nearly four years ago? This, People is YOUR money! please be more aware of the way decisions to spend large amounts are taken, after all surely the salaries are good enough? The councillors who were around to make the payments before are still there. WHY? These councillors are also the councillors who are in favour of the Exclusive Bretheren getting planning permission in the the National Park. Come along to the meeting on Monday and ask them to justify their decision making on behalf of the people of Liphook!

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - Nick Hancock (24th Nov 2010 - 20:40:52) Justin, I can't make Monday's meeting but I am curious to know what you have seen - can you enlighten us? Thanks

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - Dawn Hoskins (25th Nov 2010 - 17:31:21) OMG not another 'ex-gratia' payment from public funds! I thought that was all put to bed when the last load of . . . . hit the proverbial fan!! I know that everyone got very fed up with me ranting on about it - and the whole thing made me so infuriated that I dropped out of attending council meetings etc for quite a time. In my absence it seems that the same old players are up to their old tricks! What happened to 'transparency'.......... Barry Hope died trying to expose this using the Freedom of Information Act. He would be turning in his grave!

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - PeterW (3rd Dec 2010 - 09:56:48) As is mentioned the Councillors themselves do not get paid, however the Parish Clerk does, and very handsomely I understand. However it seems very petty after 23 years of 'illustrious service' in the army and retiring with the rank of Lieutenant Colonel that as soon as people starting asking him questions he will or cannot answer it suddenly becomes bullying and intimidation and then uses the force of his union to fight his battles. Another 8K paid out and his wife lwaving the hall in floods of tears telling us we don't know what we are talking about. I would suggest that if the clerk had any honour left in him that he would resign to protect his family. However that is not going to happen as every time somebody says something nasty he will hide behind Unison and cry foul, bit like an asian Police Officer who was promoted out of his capabilities and then was put in jail for abusing his position. I am not quite sure what the answer really is, but new elections are due soon and then perhaps, just perhaps, the people of Liphook will stand up and elect a completey new council that has the interests of the village at heart rather that there own pet projects.

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - Irene (3rd Dec 2010 - 12:44:20) Well said Peter W you have hit the nail on the head. I have written to the chairman of the Parish Council saying how angry I am that our rate payer’s money is being paid to Mr Groves instead of the community. I just wish more people would write then perhaps we could get this mess sorted out, and not behind closed doors, and then we could have councillors who could ask question in the interest of the parishioners without being in fear of victimisation and being taken to a tribunal. Mr Newman said in the report that there were scores of people in support of the payment. I don’t know where he gets his information from but there are scores of parishioners out there who think the opposite so unless enough people write and let them know different nothing will change.

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - Bill Ratcliffe (3rd Dec 2010 - 13:10:00) The sad state of affairs in the Parish Council is only a reflection of public life in the UK. Wasting public money is so easy because the people involved can just raise more from tax payer. Would the Parish Councilors have so easily awarded the payments if they either had to pay the money themselves or create a business that made a profit from which to make compensation payments. It seems the Public Sector is run for the benefit of people working in, or supposedly managing, the service (MPs and Councilors). Liphook people have gained no benefit from the payments which were made from money they supplied. After the scandal of the MP’s expenses and the incredible saga of our own Parish Council the only slender hope that we have of irradiating dubious practices is less secrecy and greater transparency.

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - marian (3rd Dec 2010 - 14:26:42) I think this payment to the Parish Clerk is an absolute disgrace. He has now received two payment from our money - if he does't like the job why doesn't he look for another. Most people would have to.

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - dave (3rd Dec 2010 - 16:43:08) What extra payment................? Someone enlighten me please, Irene you seem in the know what have I missed.

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - Irene (3rd Dec 2010 - 20:12:41) Dave Go and buy the Liphook Herald its on the front page or ask one of the Parish Councilor. If you had attended the parish meeting last monday you would have had all the details first hand. It was a full house.

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - helen (5th Dec 2010 - 10:04:05) There is a finance and policy meeting this monday evening. Most of the couincillors who seem to have been in favour iof the payment will be there, please ask them why they want to use our money for yet another handout. Also the newspaper report is totally one sided, the normal procedure if one is having a dispute with employers is to use a tribunal not just throw public money at the employee,. let an independant tribunal decide if we should pick up the bill for "hurt feelings!" How I understand it is if the councillors talk about it there is a clause preventing them doing this, why is it ok then for Mr Grove's family to be so public , and vocal, surely laws of confidentiality prevents anyone talking about this, including Mrs Groves? We should let them know we do not condone this sort of thing from our money, do not vote those in favour in again in May!

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - marian (5th Dec 2010 - 13:37:47) I should be very interested to know who works on setting the budget for the Parish Council? Does the Parish Clerk have any input into this budget? and which category do these payments which have been made to him come out of? In order to be able to make the payment to the Parish Clerk there must be items of expenditure which have been approved for in the budget which are now not being made due to a shortfall of £8.5K. Has the payment been made from the contingency? There are many unanswered questions which need to be addressed.

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - Dawn Hoskins (5th Dec 2010 - 22:37:48) I am so pleased that other people (apart from me) are suddenly interested in the 'goings on' at the Parish Council Offices! rolling back the clock, I witnessed the clerk behaving in a very odd way, parked out at night watching a particular road. (not his). This news got around very quickly as the person who was the recipient of the unwanted attention confided in many many people, some neighbours, like myself, and some councillors. The vice chairman informed the chairman straight away. Nothing was done. Pretty much all the councillors got to know about it. Still nothing was done. In the end, a councillor brave enough to face the wrath of 'the few', plucked up the courage to ask the clerk about it .No one heard the councillor ask the question, he did it privately, at a closed meeting. No public were there. 'They' had him arrested (or tried to) on a trumped up public order offence! The 'few' did not investigate the behaviour of the clerk. Despite being called to undertake an independent instigation. Instead, they charged the councillor who asked the question of 'bullying'. A kangaroo court was put together at Penns place. As I was a witness, I was there. The clerk was also there. He was staring at us and taking notes in a very dramatic way throughout the event. Key witness on the clerks' side was his cousin,councillor Anna James. Administrative law does not permit this. It is called BIAS. The whole hearing was 'Privileged' . That means that no action can be taken against any person for anything they say during the proceedings. Despite this, the clerk with his trusty notebook, felt fit to put in a claim for damages on the basis of it!! On the point of the clerks behaviour, it was NEVER investigated! You would never know this if you only read the Liphook Herald would you? So, even though no action can be brought on the basis of what is said in a privileged hearing, 'the few' decided to pay up. This came as a great shock to those councillors at the other end of the table, who knew nothing about it. The decision was taken at a meeting in which they were not present - neither did the minutes of that meeting inform those absent councillors what they were missing. I tell you. . . . you couldn't make it up - it is so ridiculous.

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - MC (6th Dec 2010 - 09:30:14) You are all 10 years too late and should have listened to Mr Conroy who was one of trustees at the Milleneum Hall and a certain local journalist also tried to stop this meglomaniac but hes good at his game so good luck with the fight. Politburo comes to mind.

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - liz (6th Dec 2010 - 11:23:56) Perhaps the person concerned should feel vindicated with a ruling in his favour but not accept a second payment from public funds (from every single person in the Bramshott and Liphook area) for what appears to be a private spat.

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - Outraged of Liphook (6th Dec 2010 - 16:54:35) If the parish clerk was paid an initial payment of £2500.00 and a subsequent sum of £8500.00 that represents a considerable settlement on it's own, but add the cost of employing others to perform his duties in his absence, then the cost of legal fees (as yet undisclosed and apparantly privvy to not all of our councillors, but certainly to a few), and you are not now talking about £11,000.00 but an amount of money to make the eyes water! I am constantly puzzled by the secrecy employed by certain councillors when dealing with matters which are not that much of a secret. Afterall it invariably comes out in the washing, doesn't it?, Post edited to remove incorrect information Ms. Hoskins suggests (above) the illegality of bias in the matter, but what is worse is that some may interpret it not as bias but collusion, right or wrong. A stench is starting to make it's self noticable

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - liz (7th Dec 2010 - 12:12:11) I note that the minutes of the last meeting of the full Parish Council are still not on the PC website. How long does this normally take?

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - Editor (7th Dec 2010 - 12:51:31) A quick search of the EHDC web site - 'Council Meetings' - reveals this interesting document from their Standards Committee. Standards Consideration and Hearing Sub-Committee - Friday 18th June Long - but well worth the read Alan

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - liz (7th Dec 2010 - 13:12:09) Mountains and molehills come to mind. And we are STILL paying for all this nonsense.

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - Robert Douglas (7th Dec 2010 - 15:04:45) It's pantomime season! With Lieutenant Colonel ("thanks for my army pension, and my salary, and my compensation payment") Clerk in the role of principal boy, Cllr Tough-by-name-and-wet-by-nature as one of the ugly sisters (type casting if there ever was some!), Cllr not-so-Good Evans (gettit?) as one of the monsters in the woods, Anna James as the disinterested blood relation from a faraway land, and Early-bird-Dawn Hoskins playing the part of a caped avenger, defending people whether they want to be defended or not, and in the process making publicly insulting statements about their mental stability. Good grief. All available at your local parish hall. Tickets £11,000 apiece. A plague on all your houses. Grounds, surely, for a series of charges of Misconduct in Public Office directed at all the individuals involved.

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - Les Futcher (7th Dec 2010 - 18:19:42) I am concerned that it appears about half the Parish Council Members consider the meeting of September 27th unlawful.Should not this matter be referred to lawyers at east Hants or Hants cc,or is their another avenue to go down to clear this unsatisfactory state of affairs. Over to you Dawn or Bill.

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - Editor (9th Dec 2010 - 16:53:02) Just to compound the issue, we have now received a solicitors letter at the request of the Bramshott & Liphook Parish Council asking for a certain post to be removed from the thread on the grounds of a defamatory statement. The Parish Council could have asked us directly FOR FREE to remove the comment, but they have decided to waste even more of our money on solicitors fees. We have asked the solicitor to clarify the exact defamatory comment, by the way.

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - Jaybee (9th Dec 2010 - 20:14:11) It would appear that this Parish Council does not like fair critisim. BIG BROTHER SYNDROM. In five months they will be out

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - Dazed & Confused (10th Dec 2010 - 00:58:24) Indeed, JB, criticism seems to be a problem for a proportion of our councillors. The chairman of the P.C. campaigned when he first stood for election with a slogan of "it's not rocket science". Meaning, I suppose that when you you sort out the chaff from the straw that everything is apparent and commonsensicle. So why has he displayed such paranoia over stuff and nonsense in exchanges with other councillors. It really is primary school falling out if you take the time to read the report hyperlinked above. "Please, Miss he said I smell" Boo hoo, grow up. Week past Monday, the chairman of the P.C. was overheard apologising to some members of the Brethren after the council meeting. Anybody got any idea why he felt the need to do so?

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - liz (10th Dec 2010 - 09:09:52) I think that just shows how out of touch the Parish Council are bearing in mind how much they have been criticised in the past for wasting public funds taking legal advice on issues that should never have developed to that stage. Why not just a quick email to the Editor? I note in the Herald how effective Milland Parish Council's 'emergency response' to the snow was "while Liphook remained closed". No doubt our PC just sent a solicitor's letter to the weatherman saying "It's not fair!".

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - Commoner (10th Dec 2010 - 14:04:14) They will only be out if more that 15 people stand for the election. If not, all those who stand will be automatically in, again. So rally round and find more people to stand against and force a proper election!

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - Al (10th Dec 2010 - 14:39:37) Perhaps the public servant who received this £8000 from local taxpayers money, feels he is entitled to it because he is an "MBE". One notices that ever since this debacle become public , all documentation from The Parish Council now includes his name with an MBE. Why isn't the fact he won good enough? Why not give the money to a local charity!

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - Dawn Hoskins (12th Dec 2010 - 13:37:04) OOHHHH! Exciting. I too have a letter from Hedleys Solictors!! Interestingly there is a large header along the top saying 'NOT FOR PUBLICATION' this is very strange as they are the ones who have published it when they sent it to me?! I shall ask them what they think is untrue and direct them to the signed witness statement at the police station from the time of the incident. I wonder who is paying for these letters to be sent. Is their 'Client' the parish council? If so - that is costing tax payers a lot of money. I believe the Parish Council have access to FREE legal advice via the EHDC - I wonder why they would chose to - not take that up - and pay out with tax payers money instead? Also, if the client is the Parish Council, do ALL councillors have access to the information being given to these Solicitors? Do ALL councillors know what is being paid for, how much, and WHY?

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - liz (13th Dec 2010 - 10:42:07) Dawn Don't solicitors have to tell you who they are acting for? The fax we had from them said "Bramshott & Liphook Parish Council"

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - Diana (15th Dec 2010 - 12:42:27) Given the present goings on with our Parish council what is going to happen to the people of Bramshott and Liphook if the same councillers are in power when the new coalition goverment impliment giving full monetary control to Parish councils to do as they please?

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - simon (15th Dec 2010 - 17:27:29) Perhaps this link may hold at least one answer.....Enjoy www.youtube.com/...

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - Dawn Hoskins (15th Dec 2010 - 23:16:37) I would just make one point clear. When I spoke of publication, I meant that Hedleys Solicitors had re-published my entire post in their letter. [copyright issues]? They did not publish the sentences above it - or below it in their letter to me as that was seen by only my eyes. Having cleared that up, I have written a response and sent a copy to the editor to publish for you all to read. Also, what I was trying to establish when I ask - 'who is their client' - is whether it is one councillor acting alone or whether all 12 have agreed at a meeting that this is a course of action and at financial cost they are happy to condone. I wonder if every contributor to every thread on this site will now be receiving threats from solicitors if they dare to speak out?!

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - Don (23rd Dec 2010 - 09:10:43) This is just to let you know, if you didn’t know already, that there is a B&L Parish Council meeting at 7 pm (not 8pm) tomorrow (Thursday) which should be attended by as many parishioners as possible who care about the future of Liphook, and object to the proposals at Bohunt Manor. These proposals are supported by the Chairman, Nigel Newman and the Chairman of the Planning Committee, Anna James. What may be revealed at the meeting is how Cllr Newman instructed Hedleys, solicitors, to advise at the taxpayers’ expense that a payment of £8500 of the taxpayers money being passed to the Clerk, Mr Groves. One comment removed from this point of the post as it has been reported as incorrect by the person mentioned in it. And how Cllr James apparently had a meeting with the person who bought Bohunt Manor from the WWF, before the recent planning proposals. Or how the Parish Council objected unanimously (except for Cllr Newman) to the proposal for 51 holiday units at Old Thorns but couldn’t be bothered to send a representative to the site meeting or to make a submission at the EHDC South Planning committee at which the proposal was approved. Or how Cllr Newman used taxpayers’ money to instruct Hedleys to write to people threatening them with legal action if they tried to expose any of this on the talkback section of the Liphook website, again without the approval or knowledge of the Council.

Re: Parish council why do we pay for them? - EMK (23rd Dec 2010 - 11:40:10) Is this the same Nigel Newman who was elected in 2006 with the slogan "It's not rocket science, it's just common sense" and called for more openness from the Parish Council? Is this the person who stated - "The majority of people in Liphook feel they can't make a difference whether expressing views or opinions "If I can contribute to more openness and frankness and more people talking to each other and understanding other views, it will be for the mutual benefit of everyone" He stated that he had decided to stand to get some "plain speaking on local issues" and also accused the parish council of conducting "meetings behind closed doors". What happened?

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