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Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Finchie (1st Dec 2004 - 14:16:19) We are putting together a letter posing a few pointed questions and registering our disgust, to Mr Haines MD of SWT and we are after as many signatures as possible. Call it a petition if you like - I call a list of really p^&*ed off commuters. It will be Mon, Tue, Wed next week when we will be at Liphook looking for your support & signature. Don't feel you have to if you are happy with the new time-table :-). I am also after volunteers from Liss, Petersfield and Rowlands Castle to do the same (it means I won't have to drive down there next week !). We will provide the letter etc, what we need is signatures. So if anyone is prepared to coordinate - or knows someone who may be, please email me at mark.finch@tesco.net (damn my anonymity has just been obliterated). We think that a unified voice of a few hundred people will be more powerful than the odd letter here & there (which we have also done). We will also be copying just about every body we can including: Local Councils, East Hants District Council, local MP, Passengers Panel, The Portsmouth to Waterloo Users Group, The Rail Passengers Committee Southern England, London Transport Users’ Committee, Transport Secretary, The Local Press It will make a difference. Finchie

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Alex Cameron (1st Dec 2004 - 16:47:35) For those who can't get there have access to email/internet at work, is there anyway of doing an online petition/signature that could be printed out later? Perhaps the editor could help?

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Finchie (2nd Dec 2004 - 16:11:21) Good point Alex. Below is the letter. Please just reply to this thread with:- Name (or liphook.co.uk "handle" !): Usual Local Station: And we will print this thread off and also deliver it to Mr. Haines. Also, we have a volunteer from Liss. See you all Monday morning... ----------------------> 7th December 2004 Dear Mr. Haines, Re: The new train timetable for the Waterloo/Portsmouth line. We, your undersigned customers of Liphook, Liss, Petersfield and Rowlands Castle, demand an immediate response to the following questions: Your Consultation Process: Exactly how your consultation process operated, who was consulted, when they were consulted, what the results of the consultation were and why the majority of commuters had no say. Publishing the Timetable: We would like to understand why your timetable was published less than 4 weeks before the 12th December and why you believe this would have been adequate time for issues to be addressed. The Train Service: We have a number of issues with the peak-time commute: • Reduction in the number of evening peak time services • Increased length of time each journey is proposed to take in both directions • Longer waiting times at Haslemere station. • Lack of car parking facilities at alternative stations Haslemere and Petersfield, thus preventing commuters from other stations travelling there to use these services (a three year wait at Haslemere and one year wait at Petersfield) By way of example: Currently, the most reasonable service for commuters to get, after the close of most business is the 17:51 from Waterloo arriving at Liphook at 18:47 with a 4 minute change at Haslemere. With the new timetable, the 17:45 arrives at Liphook at 19:11 with a 17 minute wait at Haslemere. If commuters miss the 18:15 which arrives at Liphook at 19:11, the next train to stop at Liphook is at 20:02 (Currently the 18:32 or 18:40 get us to Liphook at 19:44). We would like to understand what your plans are when it becomes clear that the 18:15 from Waterloo is continually overcrowded as it is the only remaining reasonable service. We would like to understand what your plans are to fill this void in the rush hour service. Morning Service: We also point out that the 06:44 Portsmouth to Waterloo (stopping at 7:29 at Liphook) is not an ADDITIONAL service that your organisation so kindly continues to mention, but a replacement of an existing service, the eternally late 06:49. So please do not point this out again. Increase in Season Ticket Cost: We find it wholly unacceptable that you could begin to justify an increase in the ticket cost given this level of service. While you operate this level of service we would like to know what financial compensation you will be offering us. Corrective Action: We find it wholly unacceptable that the earliest opportunity your company have stated that changes to the timetable will be in December 2005 and would like to understand how you plan to bring this forward when the new timetable is proven to be impractical. Please respond immediately to these questions and I will personally ensure that all of the undersigned will have access to your response. In anticipation, Mark Finch, A frustrated commuter

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Mike Grimes (3rd Dec 2004 - 00:40:39) I would like to clarify / emphasise the problem I see with the evening peak. This applies to Liphook and, I think, equally to Liss. Most commuters leave work after 17:00 and like to be home before 20:00. Currently there are four trains from Waterloo to Liphook that might achieve this :- 17:20 ====> 18:23 17:51 ====> 18:47 18:15 ====> 19:13 18:40 ====> 19:44 The new time table offers only the following opportunities to arrive before 20:00 :- 17:30 ====> 18:33 18:15 ====> 19:11 given that most commuters will probably not be able to reach Waterloo before 17:30 this is going to make the 18:15 a very crowded train as it will be the only option after 17:30 where there used to be three options. This will be followed by three different ways to arrive at Liphook at 20:02 giving those of us with small children less chance of seeing them on a weekday evening than David Blunkett, his. In conclusion, I predict that the 18:15 ex Waterloo will get seriously crowded and ask SWT what they propose to do about it when it does.

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Alex Cameron (3rd Dec 2004 - 12:46:18) I'm surprised anyone made any sense out of what i wrote - just read it back and noticed missing words, bad grammar..it's all this talk about chavs methinks...

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - rob (5th Dec 2004 - 10:10:54) Well done, Finchie. Right behind you. Mike Grimes has an important point, well worth including in your complaint. The evening trains are crazy - and seem to assume no-one who lives in Liphook or Liss ever has to work much beyond about 6.00. The current 7.20 is critical for me, as it means I can get home at a fairly reasonable hour even if I have to work (as I often do) beyond 6.30pm. Now, if any of us miss the 7.00pm we won't be able to get home before 9.00pm. No doubt people who work for SWT all clock off at 5.00, but it's not a luxury many of us enjoy. Hope you enjoyed your event on Friday night. Interesting how Talkback is managing to make connections that would never have happened before it existed. Friday brought together three current strings - complaints about SWT, the bookclub and Bibi Ana's - and also a whole load of people who wouldn't otherwise have spoken to each other!! Rob.

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Finchie (6th Dec 2004 - 11:05:26) Thanks Rob and thanks for your support. I really like Mike's summary above, so will be using that. I also had not realised it will be just as bad for the later trains (7pm on), thanks. So far, after Friday night at Bibi Anna's, and 4 trains at Liphook this morning we have over 100 supporters from Liphook (and I probably only spoke to 25% of those on the platforms). Tonight we'll walk the full length of the 17:51, so look out for us. Tomorrow morning, we'll have many more letters (as I couldn't get signatures quick enough, since people were reading the letter). And it's the only time I'll ever say this - I hope the odd train is 5 minutes late in the morning, so that those that time their arrival at Liphook to perfecion, have the opportunity to sign ! My appointment with Mr Haines is confirmed as Thursday. Judging by Alex's points on another thread - he might be keen to listen ! Finchie

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Mark Boosey (6th Dec 2004 - 16:08:53) I'd just like to say thank you to Mark for all the effort you have put into this - especially for standing on the cold, dark platform for all that time this morning. See you all tomorrow for the manager liquidation!

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Mike Grimes (7th Dec 2004 - 11:32:16) I know it is a bit late for round one but there are other groups of travellers that are severely affected by these timetable changes. Firstly, the disabled, who currently face well documented difficulties at stations such as Liphook, will now face not only a ten minute wait at Haslemere but a change of platform (over the bridge to platform 2) as well. Secondly, those with shorter daily journeys, such as Liphook to Godalming or Liss to Milford, face, because of the change at Haselmere, a near doubling of journey times.

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Rory Lawson (7th Dec 2004 - 13:30:11) I have very recently moved from Haslemere to Liphook (last Saturday), and am totally cheesed off with the new timetable. When looking for a place to buy, having been renting for years, Liphook seemed a nice place to live and bring up my family, and the rail link was perfect. Now it seems I will have little chance of seeing them, bar weekends! Absolutely gutted quite frankly. Commuting is bad enough as it is without slashing the amount of services. Will it stop them putting up the fares? Not a chance.

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Annie (7th Dec 2004 - 15:07:18) Agree with all the above comments on timetable - well done Finchie for putting together the letter. I recently e-mailed SWT to complain about the platform extension that isn't long enough. The response (if you didn't already know) is that "The platform extension was funded by the SRA, and after financial assessments they felt that to extend the platform to accommodate the 8 car 450 units, was sufficient" Still seems a bit crazy to me!

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Finchie (8th Dec 2004 - 11:34:17) One of the benefits (!) of standing at Liphook station for a while today was I witnessed the reaction when the 07:56 was cancelled. Station staff did their best in asking for the following fast train to stop without success - but to their credit they did try. One chap considered getting on the track to force the fast train to stop, such was the level of his frustration. Apparently this is the 3rd time it has happened in 3 weeks. He travels to Godalming. He supported the petition and also made the comment "At least I have a choice - I could have gone home and got in the car. For for the majority of you, you have no choice". The guy I really felt sorry for was the 17 year old student, with an exam this morning that he would be late for. He was absolutely helpless and frantic and angry and tearful ...

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - rob (8th Dec 2004 - 22:02:48) Well done, Finchie. And good luck with your meeting with SWT tomorrow. My wife had a reply yesterday from James Arbuthnot MP to her e-mail to the Herald (not published, surprise, surprise) which she had copied to him. I copy it in full, below. "Thank you for your e-mail about the new rail timetable. I note what you say. "However, earlier this year I did have a one-to-one meeting with Andrew Haines, the Managing Director of SWT, when I started to get a number of complaints from my constituents about the shortcomings in the train service to Waterloo. Because of the unreliability of the service over the last year or two, I felt it was essential that SWT did something to give travellers a less miserable time, and it was a good thing that they were at least trying to do that. I do hope that in trying to address people's concerns they haven't made things worse by the changes they have introduced to their timetables. I know that as a result of representations they have received they have added an extra stop in the trains going to London, but there is a serious issue in relation to trains returning from London, including having to change at Haslemere. "I am writing to Mr Haines to pass on the concerns that my constituents have expressed to me. "Yours sincerely, James Arbuthnot." Very charming, but not exactly very dynamic (or even very factually correct!). Even so, you may want to make clear to Mr Haines that we have engaged at least the active interest of our MP (and perhaps you could copy your petition to him?). Others may also wish to write to him to make their points, so he knows how seriously fed up we all are. There is, after all, almost certainly an election next Spring! Rob.

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Finchie (9th Dec 2004 - 18:00:22) I'll post a detailed update of the meeting with Mr. Haines tomorrow (Friday) - However, more importantly, I'm up for a beer in the Railway (never been in there but it's next to the station) to comiserate the demise of the 17:51 from Waterloo. Anyone up for it ? Finchie

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Nick Hancock (10th Dec 2004 - 10:03:02) I confess that I was the one who suggested jumping on the track to stop the fast train. What really struck me was the resulting sense of humour failure on the part of the station staff - SWT really doesn't see our frustration and expects us to take it in our stride when important arrangements are messed up. They live in a different world. I was still there (nothing else to do when your train is cancelled!) when the lad mentioned by Finchie found out that he was going to be late for his exam. Not surprisingly, he swore (F*** h***) - and then got torn off a strip by the station staff. (Nb this was not a case of verbal abuse / threatened assault etc - it wasn't directed at them at all.) Have they no sense of why he was so cross? Have they never taken exams ... ? Finchie, many thanks for your sterling work. I signed your petition that morning and have since taken another look at the new timetable. I now have to leave 11 minutes earlier in order to get a train which arrives at Godalming 7 minutes later than before! My 19-minute journey will now take 37 minutes - almost doubled because of a 17 minute wait at Haslemere, with no option of a fast train from Haslemere to Godalming. The story in the evening will be similar. Fortunately I don't have to travel as far as you London commuters - but I don't see why I should have to live with this. Too late for your meeting today but one to add to the pot if things go further. I probably shan't make The Railway this evening but I'll be thinking of you there! Nick

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Finchie (10th Dec 2004 - 13:48:38) A very big thank you to 324 people for your signatures (of which 237 travel from Liphook) A blatant plug for the Liphook Herald this week - thanks for the coverage Steve. Lots of detail on the front page - so buy it ! Quick update - Andrew Haines (MD of SWT) listned to all our issues. We didn't want a response there & then, but wanted another longer appointment for him to then address our issues. He said yes to that - so we are trying to schedule one the week before Christmas. Thanks for your support Alison. A female touch kept away any blood spillage or expletives in what was a very reasonable but focussed 30 minutes ! A pretty optimistic Cheers, Finchie

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Finchie (10th Dec 2004 - 13:51:50) Before you dive in Alex - He "listened" and the meeting was "focused" :-)

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Mark Boosey (11th Dec 2004 - 15:06:29) Rob - sorry to say - that letter you got back from Arbuthnot was his "standard reply letter number 7" by the looks of it. I've got an almost identically worded letter from him here myself. It almost as if this guy doesn't want to get himself re-elected. Useless... Finchie - glad to hear the meeting went ok. Time to see how Monday morning's commute goes - I've already told work I'm probably going to be rather late :0(

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Alex Cameron (11th Dec 2004 - 21:58:25) Saying that though, if he does have a letter template for this issue, it could be the case that a lot of people have raised it with him. I've had a few responses back by using faxyourmp.com, but i'm suspicious as to how complacent he is. We could also take it up with a few others from this list: http://www.connectotel.com/... Glad to see my reputation for enforcing grammar and spelling rules is apparently preceding me - what can i say? If i ran for Arbuthnot's job next May, i'd introduce an online 'support ticket' service for every issue raised by a constituent. Actually, i'd put almost everything online, as well as hiring a bunch of merciless thugs to intimidate people hassling the people who voted for me. If i had my way, we'd go back to the old days and publicly flog Andrew Haines. Congrats on the great work chaps - i missed it unfortunately as i haven't been back into Liphook for a while now, but you have a lot of people's support as far as i can tell. Grassroots activism it may be, but effective nonetheless - the common man will triumph and all that.

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Rob (11th Dec 2004 - 23:13:15) Finchie Excellent stuff. Fully behind you. Happy to help in any way. What I guess we ought to be concentrating on now is specific proposals that we want SWT to introduce when the summer timetable comes in. For my part, my priorities would be to get two more trains to stop at Liphook (and Liss etc) between 1911 (the 1815 from W'loo) and 2100 (the 2000 from W'loo). I'm not clever enough to work out how they should do it - that's supposed to be their expertise - but there are lots of trains scheduled in that period already, they just need to recognise Liphook and Liss exist, rather than blasting through to Petersfield. Others will doubtless have other priorities. Rob.

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Finchy (13th Dec 2004 - 14:22:08) Definitely must be a stock letter from our delightful MP as I too have just received one with pretty much identicle wording: "I do hope that in trying to address people's concerns they haven't made things worse by the changes they have introduced to their timetables. I shall keep a close eye on the various issues involved here." If things weren't worse does he really think we would have been writing to him? Perhaps less of a close eye and more action would be more appropriate from Mr Arbuthnot?! We'll shall be sending him a copy of the letter and petition signatures and see if perhaps we can entice him to venture outside of his ivory castle and support his constituents. Finchie - you are welcome - though I was a wee bit disappointed not to see any blood spilled....!

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Alex Cameron (13th Dec 2004 - 23:49:22) He's a tory - since when have any of them been genuinely concerned for their constituents' problems when it is not strictly in their own interests to be? Headline on the Evening Standard was good today - for those who didn't see it it involved police being drafted onto trains due to protests by commuters on the Alton -> Waterloo route. Can't find a link just yet. SWT's friendly relationship with its customers goes back a long way: http://www.bloggerheads.com/archives/2003/11/swt_uk.asp

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Chris Elliott (15th Dec 2004 - 20:06:07) "The platform extension was funded by the SRA, and after financial assessments they felt that to extend the platform to accommodate the 8 car 450 units, was sufficient" The above does not make sences as the 8 Cars Units are not ment to go as far as Liphook, only to Guildford?

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - rob barnard-smith (23rd Dec 2004 - 13:05:22) Goes without saying I support all the effort being put in here. Coming from just a few other angles from already raised....the family unit & family values are a key issue in our society at the moment, and the new timetable makes it very difficult for parents to get home. Some people have had to organise/pay for additional nannies. Some have had to buy a new ''station'' car to get them to a major station. Can Mr Haines tell us what differentiates an 'intermediate' station (Liphook/Liss) from a 'large' one (Haslemere). The geniuses who put the new timetable together should be able to calculate a new fare basis where Haslemere commuters (and other stations) pay more than others (e.g. Liphook), irrespective of the distance involved, it should be based on 'level of service'. SWT need to pester Network Rail to increase capacity @ Waterloo, and in the longer-term put more tracks on the Portsmouth line.

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Lenny (23rd Dec 2004 - 21:39:34) Finchie The train service has certainly gone downhill in the years i have lived in the parish. I think the old fashioned way of acting is best - vote with your feet by using the bus or better still car-sharing Who needs SWT anyway? Lenny, Lark Rise

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - rob (23rd Dec 2004 - 23:06:44) It would be interesting to know what data SWT used in designing their new timetable. What evidence do they have to show the number of commuters from Liphook declining over recent years? If they have none, on what basis did they decide to hack our services? Also notable that, even with the new timetable, even with it being the school holidays, and even with a proportion of people being on holiday, their timekeeping this week has been just as pathetic as ever. And they are still using old (and increasingly foul and unmaintained) trains for many peak services. Rob.

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Mike Grimes (24th Dec 2004 - 00:28:45) The new timetable has been quite obviously designed to give SWT a better chance of meeting performance targets. It is widely known that the introduction of the new 'Desiro' trains was significantly delayed because someone forgot to upgrade the power supply to the track to enable them to run. It was also known that a train with two doors per carriage was going to take longer to load (at each station) than one with, say, eight doors per carriage. SWT believed that this would be compensated for by the superior acceleration and speed of the new trains. Heres the rub, even after the hugely expensive upgrade of the power supplies on SWT routes by Network Rail the trains are not allowed to utilise their superior acceleration or speed because the (newly upgraded) power supply cannot cope. SWT's answer: increase journey times, reduce number of trains, reduce station stops of those trains or all three. This is the real reason for a new timetable, not the stated reason that the current one dates back to the 1960's. F & F - Keep up the good work, it's appreciated.

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Alex Cameron (24th Dec 2004 - 10:09:35) I got the chance to try the services on the new timetable recently, having not had the opportunity before. Peak time and the platform was maxed out, and to top it off, we got the older carriages. Again, we were of course 30mins late. In light of Mike's post, its worth pointing out that a lot of the problems are down to what is passed to the rail companies from above - regulation, targets etc. There's no doubt its also down to the incompetence of the private franchisers either when you consider that the best performing service is the only government-run one. When you look and see the same problems, and subsequent 'cheating' to reach targets, in the NHS for example, responsibility is being dodged elsewhere as well as in Haines' office.

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Mark Boosey (24th Dec 2004 - 10:35:49) Thanks Alison and Mark for taking time to go see Mr Haines again - looking forward to hearing how the meeting went yesterday. Here are my thoughts on the new timetable now we've had to put up with it for a while. --> SWT state their main reason for introducing this timetable is to improve reliability (the fact they are trying to achieve this by putting in longer stops and less trains is another argument!). Basically in my eyes they have failed – the morning service is worse than ever. The 7:19 and 7:28 are already being labelled the 7:29 and 7:Whenever. We might as well revert back to the old timetable. --> The 18:15 isn't as crowded as expected which the only positive. However the two times I've caught the 17:30 it has been jam packed, standing only. Even if it wasn't for a lack of service to Liphook, SWT are going to have to think about putting another train in between then and the 18:15 to reduce the overcrowding! --> I have just looked at the afternoon service on the timetable for the first time. There are departures from Waterloo to Liphook every 15 minutes (first slow, second fast catching slow). This pattern suddenly stops at 17:30 thus wrecking the options for us – why!!! --> The fare increase isn't acceptable. You can't reduce service and increase prices – it just isn't fair (especially when you consider Haslemere commuters pay less). I like the idea Rob Barnard-Smith has above – fares based on the level of service. Sadly I don't think SWT have any inclination / option to budge on this one. --> The council, our MP and the rail 'pressure' groups are totally useless. Alison, Mark – do either of you fancy running for MP? – we'd all vote for you I'm sure, plus just think – no need to commute and a whacking big salary. I should have more time in my life next year so I might start up a campaign to get Mr Arbuthnot booted out – he is far too comfortable sitting there doing nothing apart from occasionally drafting another "Thank you for writing to me, I'm going to do nothing about your issue as I'm spending all your money on lazing about" letter. *sigh* Cheers, Mark B p.s. Merry Christmas everyone!

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Alex Cameron (24th Dec 2004 - 11:48:16) Mr Arbuthnot is certainly listening now, especially after i wrote to him about "growing disquiet" with the URLs of specific posts on this forum.

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Greg Millis (30th Dec 2004 - 12:46:52) Is it just me or are the answers comming back from the SWT Customer Service Centre getting more ridiculous? Having complained specifically about the absence of ANY service leaving W'loo between 17:30 and 18:15, I received back a series of stock paragraphs relating to train lengths, loading patterns and overcrowding. Oh how I would love a short formation overcrowded service to be leaving W'loo at 17:50!! I can't help feeling that the bods manning the 'Service Centre', and I use that expression somewhat tongue in cheek, are simply 'processing' the complaints, hoping that the writers will get bored. Maybe we need to find another way to flag Mr Haines attention?

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Mark Boosey (1st Jan 2005 - 20:47:10) Wow. Just seen the Liphook Herald - what a great leading story. Although we all knew SWT had to do something actually seeing some result of our complaints is still a little unbelievable. Congratulations Alison and Mark - I'm sure I speak for everyone in saying thanks so much for all the time and effort you've put into this cause. For anyone who hasn't yet seen the story the brief outline is that they're going to be extending the 17:45 through to Petersfield giving us two new options - the 17:45 or 18:00 fast which catches up with the 17:45 at Haslemere. In regards to Mr Haines invitation to come and see us all - I'm certainly willing to come along to a meeting. It will be partly to say thanks for actually listening to us but also to try and emphasise the point that the post 6:15 service still is a problem. Excellent stuff. p.s. Finchy - loved your attack on Mr Arbuthnot in the paper. Witty and oh so true! Fancy starting up a pressure group (when all this SWT stuff is out the way) to ensure Mr Arbuthnot doesnt get his seat back come May?!?

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Mike Grimes (1st Jan 2005 - 23:28:34) Thanks again F & F, I await your prognosis as to whether you consider this a result or if there is 'more to be done'. I read the article in the Herald and was very amused by SWT's attitude to the plight of passengers from Witley and Milford. Apparently, due to the poor service from these stations, they have considered driving to Haselmere or Godalming but, surprise surprise, they cannot park there so they have been forced to drive to Guildford. SWT's proud response was to announce an extra train to Waterloo in the morning - from Guildford.

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Alex Cameron (1st Jan 2005 - 23:35:39) Sounds amazing - i know that this might be pushing things a bit, but is there any chance anyone could scan the article and post it? I'm not going to be able to get back in time to buy it. Would be much appreciated.

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - S (4th Jan 2005 - 08:28:43) On a sour note train fares are now up by over 2 pound a day to London. 32 quid return. Almost a 10% rise. I guess we have to pay extra for less of a service then? Seems fair doesn't it?

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Finchy (4th Jan 2005 - 10:31:32) Definitely more to be done... but very pleased with result so far and no blood shed!! We are still pushing for the 6.40pm or an equivalent train to be reinstated so that if you do miss the 6.15pm train there is another service that can get you home to Liphook before 8.00pm! If we have enough people that want to attend the question and answer session and it goes ahead then this would be a good platform to push this point home. On the subject of our delightful MP(!) - I am very much looking forward to his reply to my letter detailing the results we have achieved so far and my questions to him about why he hasn't been of any use to us in this campaign and what could he do in the future for his constituents?! I'll post his reply if and when I get it....

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Finchie (6th Jan 2005 - 13:08:00) Thank you for your support everybody. Now in Black and White ... http://www.swtrains.co.uk/aboutus/newsreports.asp?ArticleID=304 1745 London Waterloo - Haslemere is extended to Havant. This train will run as advertised to Haslemere arrive 1847, depart 1856, Liphook arrive 1901, Liss 1907, Petersfield 1912, Rowlands Castle 1922, Havant arrive 1932. Also means you can get the 18:00 Fast train from Waterloo and change at Haslemere, still keeps the journey to near an hour. And it's not over because there is still a void after 18:15 from Waterloo. One small step at a time ! Also, I made a mistake when telling the Liphook Herald about the additional morning service from Guildford to Waterloo - it is in fact an additional 06:00 from Haslemere to Guildford to help out the Milford/Witley crew (not that I was at all interested in that service !). So SWT have not been that barmy. Cheers, Finchie

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - rob (19th Jan 2005 - 23:20:07) Oh what a day ...! I've just written to SWT in the following terms: "Dear Sirs Today has shown how utterly inadequate your new timetable is for people travelling to and from Liphook. Words cannot express how angry I am at the shabby way we have been treated. I can only hope that, on reflection, you will review your recent changes and put something more remotely acceptable in place as soon as possible. Specifically, I like many others am now forced to take the 0728 (which has only once this year been on time) to town from Liphook, this being now the only reasonably prompt service that gets us into Waterloo before 0900. Late as usual, this had four blue suburban carriages in front of two (?) sets of long distance white carriages. Massive confusion on the platform as people who, knowing there would be no space in the first four white carriages (before they even get to Liphook for heaven's sake), prepared to board the back of the first set - only to be told to board through only the front four carriages. Total chaos. And a further delay of several minutes while people jostled onto the train and started walking backwards towards Petersfield in the hope of finding a seat. [In all of this, what worries me most is that you'll decide not to run any fast trains from Liphook, rather than doing the sensible thing and extending the platform a useful distance. But I'll take a risk that you might be able to understand the difference from your customers' perspective.] Overall outcome, still five minutes late getting into Waterloo and huge overcrowding. Well done. Only this evening was even worse. Thanks to your pathetic new early evening timetable, which seems to assume almost everyone leaves work before 5pm (I wish!), I got to Waterloo at around 1850 to discover the 1900 had been cancelled. Your new timetable means that people living in Liphook and Liss at best only have three trains between 1815 at Waterloo and 2000 at Waterloo that stop for us. So (if we choose to avoid the meandering 1845 with its ten minutes of enforced emprisonment at Haslemere) when you cancel the 1900, we have nothing that gets us home before 2100. Yet you wouldn't even think of extending the 1915 to Haslemere to let us get home, and point blank refused to help us get taxis from Haslemere to Liphook. Of course, you've got a monopoly on the Portsmouth Harbour line. And you've a long enough franchise that you can afford to treat us with utter contempt. So this note is not worth the effort. But I would earnestly urge you to recognise just how much anger you have generated, and just how much ill will you are creating among your customers. Nothing can put this right, short of the reinstatement of all the trains you've denied us. But at the very least something urgently needs to be done to enable us to get on the very few trains you allow us by extending the platforms (again) at Liphook; and I very strongly believe there is a case for making the 1930 from Waterloo a stopper from Haslemere to give us at least a sporting chance of getting home sometime between 2000 and 2100 on a regular basis, and especially if (like tonight) you have to cancel any of our very few early evening options. Don't bother to reply if you are only going to make excuses for what's currently going on. But I'd be delighted to receive a reply that said you were willing to do something for the hundreds of Liphook commuters you have recently treated with such indifference. This copied to James Arbuthnott MP, others interested in trying to change the current timetable - oh, and John Tough at Liphook Parish Council." Waste of time, I've no doubt. But it made me feel just ever so slightly less fed up. Rob.

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - S (20th Jan 2005 - 09:27:42) Why don't you organise a protest. Everyone who gets the train in the morning refuse to pay, get on the train pull the cord just outside Liphook. In fact a group of 100-200 or so pulling the rip cord at the same place every day would be very iritating for SWTrains and not costly either. 50 quid fine between a couple of hundred is nothing. Those with monthly tickets refuse to show them. If you don't get arrested, do it once a week until something is done. I think the time for letter writing is over, it's done very little so far. Yeah I know, I'm barking mad.

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Stephen (20th Jan 2005 - 15:56:54) I have read in a journal called "Transit" that SWT had commissioned a firm of transport consultants to identify the stations where the service was most and least adequate for local demand, and for local population. However, I can't believe that Liphook's demand/population is no better than Milford or Witley. The article points out that housing developments around Farnborough justified an increase from one to two fast trains per hour. An another note, perhaps the way forward would be the extension of the "Taxibus" service, introduced at Petersfield (http://www.swtrains.com/transportlinks/) to Liphook (or even Haslemere covering the Liphook area in the gaps between our hourly service).

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - tim (20th Jan 2005 - 16:10:09) While I appreciate the 19th was a bad day (I was in the scrum for the 0728), I do think the service has improved slightly. As mentioned ,let's not shoot ourselves in the foot by making Liphook a no go area for SWT (although admittedly I am as culpable as any for making snidey comments to the guards about the fact that there are plenty of doors at the back of the train which they could be opening). Worst case scenario for me is that they replace the nice roomy 444s with those sardine can blue 450s. At least I have a chance of getting my laptop out on the former!

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Finchie (21st Jan 2005 - 10:11:07) Another vehicle to vent ... Mark your diary for Tue 25th Jan 7pm, Petersfield for the Portsmouth to Waterloo Line Rail Users Group meeting. It is in the Community Centre. Multimap Link: http://uk.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?lat=51.0077&lon=-0.9313&scale=10000&icon=x I know that our local counciller, Dr John Tough will be there and EHDC transport representative, Gwil Williams. Usually there is a very small sign in the station, advertising the meeting. There isn't one yet - perhaps they are hoping it slips by without too many frustrated people pitching up ! I'll be in the Folly Wine bar about an hour beforehand (for everyone that has said they'd buy me a beer - great opportunity !) Cheers, Finchie

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Mark Boosey (21st Jan 2005 - 14:39:02) Rob - good letter, let us know what the reply is (if any!) S - a protest probably wouldn't do much to endear ourselves to SWT or any of the passengers from the other stations. Plus of course SWT have shown on the Alton line they're not afraid to phone the police if someone pulls the cord as a protest rather than genuine emergency. Having said that, I'm certainly not going to be complaining if one a fast trains stops at Liphook because somebody 'slipped' on the alarm. Tim - I agree, the service is slightly better now, still a long way to go though. Finchie - thanks for the info. Anyone else try to catch the 18:15 yesterday? - it was quite enlightening! For those that don't know, the train was cancelled and so SWT made the 18:30 stop additionally at Liphook and Liss. It got into Liphook at 19:34 with no hassle at all. This 'extra' stop caused no inconvenience to anyone and if it were to be made a permanent feature of the time-table would fill that ever-so-problematic gap of another arrival before 20:02. Seems perfect - should we push for this?

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - rob (22nd Jan 2005 - 08:51:04) Mark Interesting about the 1830. [Doubtless the extra stops make the train marginally later at Petersfield and stops beyond that, but if SWT timetabled them properly everyone would know where they stand. And those beyond Liphook would still get some fast trains.] I think what I'd want us to press for most of all would be for the 1930 to be made a stopper at Liphook. That would then give us three trains after 1800 and before 2000 from Waterloo that stopped here (1815, 1900, 1930) rather than just two. Of course the really sensible thing would be to smooth out the gaps completely and have the 1815, 1830, 1900 and 1930 stop. But if that was too much, my priority would be for the 1930 rather than the 1830. The fact is that, for people like me who aren't very good at their jobs and so more often than not have to work late, the switch to only an hourly train from 1900 is too early. To deal with the morning problems, all they really need to do is to extend the "up" platform still further, so they can open more doors. [NB they don't even actually have to do that on the "down" platform, though I do understand the lack of symmetry might be a bit distressing for a railman!] I'd also like to go back to another train leaving Liphook after 0730 and arriving in London before 0900 (like the old 0740 used to do) - but that is a very minor wish compared to sorting out the evening for me. Will try to get to the meeting on Tuesday - but to get to Petersfield by 1900 means leaving Waterloo on the 1730, so they're clearly not very interested in hearing from people like me! Unless someone else would be kind enough to pass the message on ....

Re: Commuters:Time to make our feelings known - Finchie (24th Jan 2005 - 09:03:34) Tomorrow, Tue 25th, there is a Waterloo - Portsmouth Rail Users Group meeting at 7pm at the Community Center (Love Lane). I know Gwill Williams from EHDC and Counciller Tough will both be there. I'll be in the Folly Wine Bar at 6pm for all those that said they would buy me a beer :-) Cheers, Finchie

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