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New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Finchie (16th Nov 2004 - 14:10:46) Folks, For those that want to skip the following rant and want to get their voice heard - skip to the bottom ... SWT have gone barking mad. Is this what they call service ? I have just figured out if I miss that ONE commuter train from waterloo at 18:15 (which will now be HUGELY overcrowded) - I will get to sunny Liphook at 20:02. That's TWENTY OWE TWO - you must be )*&^%^ joking !!! But the great piece of new efficient scheduling still means that I have a number of trains leaving waterloo with the option of getting to Liphook at 20:02. The options are the 18.18, 18:30, 18:45, 19:00 with varying waits at Haslemere. Oh and by the way EVERY Single train on the commute from Waterloo to Liphook now has a 10 minute wait at Haslemere. That TEN )(&^*(&) minutes. What planet are they on !!! I am sure we will be compensated with considerably reduced fares for considerably reduced service. And while I am on a RANT. What was with extending the platform by 10 feet. They still can't open all the doors on the train. Who actually employs these decision makers. Lucky they don't handle the safety of thousands of commuters every day (oh !). I won't even start on the morning trains yet ! I understand the Liphook Herald have not had many people complaining, so please do contact them at liphook.herald@internet-today.co.uk. I will post his phone number once I have checked with him that this is OK ! Finchie

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Finchie (16th Nov 2004 - 14:55:37) Now the morning trains ... Not quite as bad as the evening service - but still APPALLING - at least we don't have to change Haslemere. But again the key point - the service is reduced, with the 6:50 disappearing being replaced with the 6:41. Still, luckily we have two trains after that, at 7:19 and 7:28 (WHY oh WHY do we have these two trains so close together - ONE will do). They arrive at Waterloo within 8 minutes of each other. Almost exactly the same as last year - the combined brains and technology of the new SWT schedules still haven't picked that one up. To be fair on them - they did originally take the 7:29 away, then re-instate it as the 7:28 and call it an ADDITIONAL train. Please do complain, since someone at the top thinks that it's all OK and everyone has been consulted. I wasn't, so I assume you weren't either. Finchie

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - S (16th Nov 2004 - 17:10:37) I've said it before and agree entirely with Finchie it's F$%%ing appalling service. A town that is getting as big as Petersfield and Haslemere has a train service the same as Trumpton. More and more commuters move to the area and they stop half the trains. £29+ for a day return to Waterloo is outrageous for a shoddy service, no seats, smelly, unclean and always frikkin LATE. I don't even use it but I may have to in the future and I'd like to see something done about it.

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Wilki (16th Nov 2004 - 20:07:30) I think Trumpton ran a better service... Perhaps SWT can explain how throughout the day there are 2 services per hour leaving Waterloo and then you get to the 5.30pm when it goes to ONE train in 90 mins?!! And the logic is...... Oh and of course they have raised the prices as well!

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Mike Grimes (17th Nov 2004 - 00:01:36) To be fair, there is not a 90 minute gap in the evening peak but if youy analyse it, there is no better service then than in the rest of the day (i.e. one train per hour) - the 18:15 is going to get pretty full as if you miss it, you kiss goodbye to the evening - but why should Haslemere (Shitty town with a two year waiting list for the car park) get 4 trains per hour throughout the day whereas we get one per hour in the peak period AND pay more for our tickets?

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - S (17th Nov 2004 - 08:40:11) Something really needs to be done about it. The people who make all the decisions to build all these new houses and increase Liphook's population tenfold should get their arses in to gear and sort out a train problem that has been getting worse for years. Come on someone on here, Freddie or anyone must be able to do something. It's a disgrace.

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Mark Boosey (17th Nov 2004 - 13:50:16) Good rant Finchie. I’m not going to complain about the morning service because that is hardly changing (although that doesn’t mean it is good) and the platform extensions now do allow most doors to open (although why they didn’t do a proper job and extend it far enough to accommodate even the biggest trains is beyond me). Like everyone else on here though I think that the planned evening services are totally unacceptable! It has already been said above but if you miss the 6:15 (which is a bit late anyway – most of us get to Waterloo about 5:45 and used to be able to get the 5:54) then you really have had it. The present 6:15 is already overflowing so I hate to think what it is going to be like under the new timetable where more people will have to catch that train. I don’t think I’d be so upset if it wasn’t for the fact I’m almost certain that service and reliability wont improve under the new timetable – all the new times will mean is longer journeys. I wonder if SWT’s bias towards Haslemere could be considered as anti discriminatory under EU law – it certainly should be, we’re growing as big as them but our services are being cut rather than increased. I think we should do something about it pro-actively. Shall we start a campaign up? Perhaps Freddie could help in some way? In my opinion before Christmas is our only real chance to make a difference for the long-term future because if the new timetable comes in and runs for a while they’re going to think “well the Liphook lot are living with it as it is – why change it”. As a minimum I think we should try and get them to sort out their evening service so that one of the later leaving fast trains catches up the slow train at Haslemere (much like the 5:54 now). Mark

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Wilki (17th Nov 2004 - 16:58:25) I totally agree with Mark – especially as I have just found out that this timetable lasts for a year instead of the usual 6 months so strike while the iron’s hot and all that… However, I don’t hold out much hope with getting any help from the Parish Council as some feedback I got from someone who attended the last council meeting was that those in charge of transport on the council admitted that they hadn't even looked at the evening time tables and therefore had not taken this issue any further. In the same breadth they then commented that it didn't effect them personally anyway....... uh and what about the community they represent...? Was this really what was said - Freddie are you out there can you fill us in??

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - rob (17th Nov 2004 - 22:11:46) Couldn't agree more. This is barking. Housing policy says "build more houses in the commuter belt" - so we get more houses. Environmental policy says "get more people off the roads (for carbon dioxide, sulphur, NOx reductions)". So transport policy ought to say "improve the rail services where the new houses are built". And what do they do? Make it virtually impossible to get home - unless you take your car to Haslemere, where you can't park anyway. This is - at minimum - a 20% reduction in service (ie trains that used to take just over an hour now take 75 minutes). Let alone the reduction in the number of services. It must be the worst service Liphook has been offered since the 1920s. Write to SWT. Write to the local rail users group. Write to your MP (Arbuthnot). Write to the Strategic Rail Authority. Write to the Transport Secretary (Alistair Darling - that's his name, not an expression of devotion). And write again in two months time, so they know we've not gone quiet. Rob.

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Freddie Dawkins (17th Nov 2004 - 22:22:36) Peeps - John Tough and Jim Walters look after Transport at Parish level. John is a highly-experienced transport consultant and Jim is a wizened/seasoned Councillor (and I mean that in the nicest sense, Jim). They are the guys who have the contacts to put pressure on. I know they both read this site and I'll copy this thread to them. But Jim and John will need to work their contacts at District and County level to kick some arses at SWT. Meanwhile, as a former regular user of the 05.24 service (does it still run?) I shall, tomorrow, actually use a train to Waterloo for the first time in about 4 years. I'm actually quite excited by the thought of commuting again (albeit it for just the one day). best to all. Freddie

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Eneida Nelson (18th Nov 2004 - 09:12:39) Finchie, You should remind unsympathetic non-commuters that a cut in rail services will certainly affect house prices in Liphook, so it's really everybody's problem.

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Finchie (18th Nov 2004 - 10:04:52) Freddie, Great contacts and Good Luck. A few top tips: - If you are getting the7:29, it always arrives at 7:34 - Only queue for the first 5 carriages (doors don't open on the others) - Take a cushion - the new seats are rock hard (but should soften after 5 years). On the positive side they do keep your back very upright and force a proper posture. - Take scarf and gloves in case the air conditioning in your carrage is set too low - Take a tee shirt in case the heating in you your carriage is set too high. - If you want a snooze, take some ear plugs, because "overcommunication" is the new policy and you will welcomed, told there is a drinks trolley where it is, and what the day's special is, and finally told what the next stop is (after every stop). But I do actually like the new trains. There is no danger that when you get to Guildford or Woking that someone is going try to sqeeze into the 12 inch gap between two of you on a three seater. In between the announcements they are very quite and the loos are spotless. I also recommend the "beer" train at 5:51 where in the drinks carriage the delightful lady serving the beers puts some good old 70's and 80's sounds on. I've nearly started dancing with some "pin stripes" ! Please do give us an update. Cheers, Finchie

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Freddie Dawkins (19th Nov 2004 - 15:37:28) Finchie - which one are you of the two quoted on the front page of today's Herald? Anyway, yesterday and today were fun. Both trains were the old slam doors - so I knew how to get on and off straightaway. The heating was broken on the one coming back - so no change there then from 4 years ago. Up train was 11 minutes late, down train was on time. Apart from flashy new info boards, Liphook Station looked the same to me and Waterloo is just a bigger mess than it was last time I was there. Who put in those stupid little info screens. Why did we lose the big boards? They were much easier to see. Announcements, there were none. But if you travel on Eurostar, everything is announced three times: English, French and Dutch. I once counted 36 announcements from Ashford International to Brussels Sud. Is this a record for a 2hr20min train journey? rgds Freddie

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Finchie (22nd Nov 2004 - 15:53:25) Freddie - Unfortunately I'm not the attractive one, I'm Mark ! Thanks for the update. The best bit about the screens at Waterloo - In the summer you had no hope seeing the screens due to the reflection from the Sun - so they spent loads putting those great little "peaks" on ! Everybody - as per the Liphook Herald - don't forget to let Steve know at liphook.herald@internet-today.co.uk about any concerns/gripes. If we all stay silent - no one will listen !! Or maybe evryone else is happy and it's just the grumpy Finches ? Cheers, Finchie

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Alex Cameron (24th Nov 2004 - 22:44:49) I was heartened to read in the Evening Standard the other day about the ad-hoc protest staged by angry SWT commuters who were forced off a train in the middle of nowhere during torential rain. I couldn't agree more with what's been said already. However experience shows that SWT couldn't care less. Does anyone know how they got their hands on £1 billion for the new (albeit much nicer) rolling stock? I've been tempting to print out leaflets and carpet-bomb angry commuters with them - a forceful protest would be useful. Ideas could include a mass blockade of the train doors to stop it moving anywhere and more... But god how i wish the Messenger and the rest of Tindle News would pull their finger out and get proper websites like their national counterparts. Local news is a nice little market - maybe they could provide xml syndication feeds to places like our own Liphook.co.uk. Makes you appreciate the place!

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Julian (26th Nov 2004 - 00:07:31) Very good points all round regarding the new timetables, and yes, we should complain, complain, complain. Yes, we can all write in to complain to the various people, but if someone has already produced a letter, can they post the standard complaint text up here? Not that we are illiterate, but it makes sense to submit a standard letter several hundred times.....Cut, paste, print and post! Job done. We did a similar thing for the A3 enquiry, and it worked very well. People may not have the time to draft their own letter (well I'm sure they would if the homeward train was ever on time), but can certainly copy & print standard text....if someone does not mind sharing their contents & who to write to? Can leaflets be handed out at the station to get more interest?

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - S (26th Nov 2004 - 09:13:12) I think we should complain like mad but I don't think it will make even the slightest bit of difference. The problem is SWT and these privately owned rail companies are only interested in profit and don't give a sh**e about their customers. They don't care about the appalling service they are providing, they know people have to use the trains regardless of how poor and shoddy the service is. I don't commute at the moment but may do again in the future. I occasionally have days work in London and not once that I can remember has my journey been delay free. For those people who pay 29.80 a day I'm suprised you don't lynch someone. I read somewhere that these companies did a risk assessment to weigh up the cost of putting staff on all the crossing gates against the cost of insurance and compensations for deaths if an accident occured due to the failure of one. It was cheaper to risk an accident to happen so thats what they did. I think that in itself shows what we are up against in getting anyone to listen to our issues. After all the accidents in the past how many of the so called expensive safety measures have actually been implemented? I bet it's near to zilch. I think the government should be looking to take the rail network back and get rid of these shoddy run, profit driven and uncaring organisations once and for all. Rant Over.

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - jane (28th Nov 2004 - 17:49:57) I've just written to the Liphook Herald, copied to James Arbuthnot MP, in the following terms: "Your articles have covered very well the pathetic failure of the Parish Council to act on the new rail timetable. But where was our MP when it mattered? "I see from a report in the Blackmore Vale magazine that "Tisbury residents who campaigned to keep their evening trains from Waterloo have won their battle after MP Robert Key came to their rescue ... the Salisbury MP took the residents' case to the managing director of South West Trains - and persuaded him to keep the service". "Perhaps James Arbuthnot MP carries less influence? Or maybe he's just not interested. Perhaps he'd like to try harder to get this nonsense reversed before the summer timetable comes." It might be worth others lobbying him directly, too. And while standard letters are useful, individual ones are much harder for MPs to reply to - because if they don't bother to answer the points you've made (rather than the points they'd hope you make) you write to them again and ask them why not. Jane

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Paul Robinson (28th Nov 2004 - 19:56:55) Way to go Jane. Thats the stuff. I hope that The Liphook Herald will put aside its all too obvious bias towards the Tory party and publish your excellent letter. If they don't then we will all know why. For the record I have been to Tisbury and it has two pubs and a dog and is a fraction the size of Liphook. If they can get something done then so can we. Paul Robinson

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Finchy (30th Nov 2004 - 14:40:42) I've also written to Andrew Haines, MD of SWT copying in James Arbuthnot, EHDC and Liphook Herald. I concentrated on the evening service in my letter as this is the one that is most severly disrupted with the changes with the outside hope (Stupid I know to feel in the least bit hopeful when it comes to SWT!) that we might get at least one train service back in peak hour or an alternative solution - they're not perfect solutions I grant you but better than the pathetic offering they are looking to implement come December 11th.... In summary I asked 5 questions of Andrew: 1)Can the 5.45pm slow train that leaves Waterloo and terminates at Haslemere not continue onto Portsmouth? This would give commuters the option of either getting this train or getting the fast 6.00pm train and changing onto this slow train at Haslemere? (much like the current 5.34pm and 5.51pm) 2) If there are no changes - what reduction can I expect in the price of my annual season ticket? SWT are providing me with a service which is going to be cut back hence the price should be cut back accordingly? This saving could then be spent on taxi's to and from Haslemere as we do not have any other option than to get lifts to Haslemere station due to the lack of carpark facilities. 3) Can SWT put on a bus to and from Liphook to Haslemere to allow us to get the fast trains - the price of this could be included in our annual season tickets? (similar to the Borden link & a new taxi link they are setting up at Petersfield?) 4) What plans are there for alleviating car parking issues? 5) On another note, when can I expect a better service from SWT? I currently get the 07.29 (regular commuters will know this as the 07.34!) into Waterloo which is so often late that I cannot rely on getting into my office by 9.00. To date I have had an unsatisfactory response back from Andrew Haines (He responded but only answer points 1 and 4, to point 1 he said that it couldn't be done because of a Southern train arriving at Havant?! And reponded to point 4 saying that there was nothing that could be done and yes there was a "rather long waiting list" - very helpful) James Arbuthnot has replied saying he will contact Andrew Haines and take it further, EHDC have said that they will lobby on behalf of us for summer timetable changes and Liphook Herald ran the article. Freddie - it would be good to hear from John Tough & Jim Walters if you have indeed passed on our thoughts to them? We need someone to grab this campaign by the neck and run with it - seems to me those in charge of Transport in our Parish are ideal choices?! The more the merrier that can write/complain/lobby the better I reckon ...... Finchy (The other one quoted in the newspaper article)

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Mark Boosey (1st Dec 2004 - 13:57:17) Can I just highlight this great service... http://www.faxyourmp.com It provides a very easy, quick and free way to get in touch with Mr Arbuthnot. Personally I think we are doing quite well however I imagine there are still a lot of non-Liphook.co.uk and non-Liphook Herald reading commuters out there who haven't voiced their concern yet. How can we encourage them to hassle too?

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Finchy (2nd Dec 2004 - 13:11:17) We have posted another message on Talkback under "Commuters: time to make our feelings known". If you read this you will see that we are putting together a letter posing a few pointed questions and registering our disgust, to Andrew Haines MD of SWT and we are after as many signatures as possible. We are also after volunteers to help collect signatures. If you look up this entry you will also see contact details of how to get involved - every bit of help/support is welcomed!! Thanks

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Phil (6th Apr 2005 - 09:47:01) If you believe that the new timetable is outrageous, and believe that our respective MP has done nothing about it, despite our pleas for him to help us, then why not show him how you feel on May the 5th? James Arbuthnott has a large majority, and the nearest candidate to him is the Liberal Democrat, Andrew Carey. Why not show our disgust at his lack of action with our votes. You want something done? then here is a very large chance.

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Eneida Nelson (6th Apr 2005 - 16:17:28) Phil, You may not be a supporter of James Arbuthnot (unlike me), but at least you got his name (nearly) right ;-)

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Finchie (6th Apr 2005 - 21:31:47) Ah Mr Carew - the man that single handedly swayed SWT to add stoppers at Liphook. Nuff said ! I want a candidate who is going to look after critical local issues such as:- -Why there is only one zebra crossing opposite the Anchor - surely there is room for another 20 yards up -There are not enough estate agents -Why Liphook Hardware shuts on Sunday afternoons -Why the Links not longer takes kids -Why there is not a good local delicatessen -Why Greyshott has two butchers and we don't have any -Why the Chinese takeway doesn't take credit cards -Why year after year the Carnival announcer calls the Honda bike Harleys - that gets up the nose of Harley riders and is probaly just as annoying for the Honda Goldwing riders -Why all the photocopiers in the town are always broken -Why the Post Office ladies can't just smile - once - please (perhaps they know our parliamentary candidates) -Why you can never get a haircut on a Saturday even with 4 hairdressers (you even have to book in advance for the barber- what is that about) Please add more ! Cheers, Finchie

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Mike Grimes (7th Apr 2005 - 00:09:47) Phil, This is a general election to elect a parliament to run our country. This parliament will have numerous and varied issues to deal with but I suspect that Liphook's specific rail service will not be one of them. Whatever your opinion on James Arbuthnot's contribution, I suggest it is irrelevant in the context of a general election. I somehow suspect that you would not vote for Mr Arbuthnot regardless of his performance on this issue and that your post here smacks of a teeny weeny bit of electioneering.

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Phil (7th Apr 2005 - 11:29:34) Whats in a name, eh? sorry about the incorrect spelling. firstly, no, i havent decided on who i am to vote for, and am waiting to see what they come up with to persuade me. I am just pointing out that the point of an MP is to represent his constituents interests first and foremeost, and then enact nationwide policy. if you feel that your MP is not paying attention to your needs (as seems to be some of the talk here), then this is a serious problem ,that stretches further than the south west train timetable (something i'm pretty certain will not decide the election!). I'm saying that perhaps the overwhelming majority this MP has here has made him complacent that he need not pander to the concerns of his constituents. and if you want him to listen to your needs more closely, then perhaps you should give him some idea that his job is not to be taken for granted by reducing this majority, and that he has to show some sort of effort and payback for the votes you invest in him. thats all. simple common sense.

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Eneida Nelson (7th Apr 2005 - 14:43:54) Well Phil, I suppose you're right in a way...a rose by any other name etc....but Mr. Adam Carew, the Lib-Dem candidate, might not feel the same :-)

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - James Arbuthnot (17th Apr 2005 - 23:24:42) Eneida, I like you! And Phil, Andrew Haines (before his translation elsewhere) told me he thought me one of the most effective MPs in his region, in terms of the communication I had with him on behalf of my constituents. Talking of which, it's a great shame he's gone.

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Eneida (18th Apr 2005 - 08:40:37) Hi James, welcome to Liphook.co.!! I'm delighted that you like me, of course, but you already have my vote :-)

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Phil (18th Apr 2005 - 15:07:31) Well, there's a surprise! I can quite honestly say that i never expected that to happen. do you visit this site often, James? Also I would like to ask, if you communicate the views and needs of your constituents so well, why was it only when a campaign was organised by the commuters themselves that any change was enacted? if you had been bending the ear of andrew haines with these views beforehand, then surely there would have been no need for this campaign? I would like to point out there there is no sarcasm or malice in this posting, i would just genuinely like to know. I guess (according to the polls) i must be one of the few young people who will be voting in these elections, and have an interest in what exactly it is that politicians do with their time outside parliament, and how much of it is actually productive. :)

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - Finchie (18th Apr 2005 - 23:00:01) I did think of getting in touch with our acting Managing Director, Graham Eccles, about the last couple of weeks - has anyone actually had a train that is 10 white coaches out of Waterloo at any time ?!!! It has been appalling recently - standing room only on most. However, as the executive director of rail for Stagecoach, I doubt he cares about little old Liphook (or knows where it is) ! I can't believe he is hands on, since as soon as Andrew left the whole Portsmouth Service has degenerated into a farce. I was never lucky enough to commute under Eccles' stewardship when he was MD of SWT in the late 90's - anyone remember what SWT was like then ? Cheers, Finchie

Re: New Train Timetable is OUTRAGEOUS - James Arbuthnot (20th Apr 2005 - 08:59:02) Hi Phil. I started visiting after the public meeting, when I said that everyone had been very rude about me on the website and then realised that I hadn't known exactly what you'd all been saying, and there was only one way of finding out ... And it was rather a good site! But the trouble with sites like this is that you can spend all day on them without necessarily doing anything in the wider world, so I only visit about once a week. Next question, why did a campaign have to be organised by you rather than me. Two reasons. First, SWT consulted me about the train timetables on the other two lines in my constituency (covering Fleet and Alton) but did not tell me there were any changes in Liphook because they didn't realise that Liphook was in the southern tip of my constituency. So I had been told specifically that the only changes that affected me were ones which, by and large, have gone down well in the north of the constituency. And second, I have to admit that even if they had told me about the changes, I am not certain that as a non-user of the Liphook line (I use the Alton line) the significance of the changes would necessarily have struck me as they did you. What this episode has done has been to teach me that when I get consulted about something like this, I have somehow to ask the people that are affected by the changes what they think. And, actually, until Finchie started this outstandingly successful campaign, I'm not even sure how I would have gone about that. These websites, though, do have a huge role to play and maybe that's the way forward. And, finally, it's not a wholly bad thing for an MP to be kicked around when he misses something big. And I did.

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