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Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - pete (9th Jul 2015 - 13:31:29) I heard the meeting was today, has anybody heard the result?

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - SOS Bohunt Manor (9th Jul 2015 - 13:58:47) You will no doubt be pleased to learn that the South Downs National Park Planning Committee have today refused permission to GVI Ltd to develop the historic Bohunt Manor estate. There will probably be an appeal, by the developers GVI Ltd, against this decision. We will continue to resist this development proposal during the appeal process should this be lodged. Many thanks for your support since the public meeting on 9th July 2013, which was coincidentally held exactly two years ago. Regards Roger Miller Chairman SOS Bohunt Manor Community Action Group

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - pete (9th Jul 2015 - 14:11:48) OK great news Roger, congratulations to you & your team keep up the good work.

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - liz (9th Jul 2015 - 14:23:11) Yippee!! (And well done SOS). I am not anti-growth but there is plenty of development going on in Liphook already.

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - A. Ryan (9th Jul 2015 - 15:03:39) Most agreed at meeting that this would be a good development for the village and was well thought out but opposed it on the grounds of the boundary. One would have to say there should be a serious look again at this boundary as it impedes any possible benefits to Liphook. There seems to be an overwhelming support from the residents for this development and all it brings, but again our Parish Council seem bent on ignoring them, also favouring less ideal sites with nothing put forward but housing. There was one lady around the table, her name I did not catch, who spoke for the development, who seemed to be the only sensible one there. Again members of the public seemed keen but again I feel we have been done over. One might say if these other developments go ahead then the Parish Council gets what it deserves.

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - liz (9th Jul 2015 - 16:10:01) A.Ryan In what way was the boundary an issue? Do you just mean that the development was IN the SDNP rather than OUT of it. Remember a lot of local people put a lot of work into getting the SDNP boundary extended towards Liphook. We have not been "done over". Many of us have thought the full implications through thoroughly. As for other developments, whether or not the Bohunt development was approved or not would have no impact on them.

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - Dawn Hoskins (9th Jul 2015 - 16:37:29) This is an old response to the same claims that the Parish Council are anti this and anti that.........but still relevant although the initial decision makers are the SDNP [first] for including this countryside within their boundary and [second] for not allowing a mass housing estate in it. So at teh bottom where it says write to EHDC - substitute SDNP. Time and again, I have heard that ‘The Parish Council’ ‘want’ or are ‘in favour’ this site. That is complete nonsense spoken by people who simply do not understand the planning constraints that councillors must work under. In areas which are inside an area of sustainable development (Liphook) there is an automatic presumption to build. This is not something that is dreamed up by Parish Councillors, but a policy from Central Government. The presumption to build is rebuttable only if certain (but few) objections can be matched to the application. If there is no matching objection that can be made to stick – then the Parish council have no choice. They are entirely hamstrung by policy. They can’t object for the sake of objecting. It would be great if there was a box to tick on the objections list that said: Liphook is full; Liphook does not have the infrastructure to cope……etc. It doesn't, it can’t and it won’t. You may not like, or understand these provisions, but to put in simple terms, if the answer is yes (to the questions listed below) -you can’t object. All the Parish Council has the power to do is place ‘Conditions’ on the application to cover the concerns that they have. Which they did do. The Conditions placed are that ‘developer contributions’ must pay for the required improvements to the Midhurst Road railway bridge and the safety issues thereon; that ‘Public Open Space’ must be provided in the form of allotments; that the developer remove all the Japanese Knotweed; that the developer must try to provide additional on-site parking spaces. I have looked with great interest at this as it has rolled on with ill-informed allegations being made against the Parish Council that they are not acting in the Parishioners best interests etc – but – please at least try to understand what the rules are before you complain that they have been broken. If you are dealt a hand full of bad cards all you can do is play the best you have – even though it is still a low scorer! We, as parish, and whether we like it or not are going to have hundreds of homes thrust upon us, because central government said so (Not because our Parish Councillors are doing a bad job). So all the Parish can do is look at all the cards in the rubbish hand they have been dealt by the various developers and decide which is the least bad. Is this an area of sustainable settlement? Yes Does the site have adequate access? Yes Does the application provide adequate car parking provision. Yes Have Hampshire County council approved road access? Yes Is the site outside of a registered flood zone? Yes Does the number of affordable homes match the number of private residences? Yes Is the application accord with current housing allocation needs? Yes Is the application high, medium or low density compared to surrounding areas? Low Does the application accord with the National Planning Framework guidelines? Yes Can the Parish Council object to this proposal under the planning rules..........No What can you do about it? Write to your member of Parliament, write to head of EHDC, attend planning meetings at Penns Place. You can campaign against the rules, but slagging off the Parish Council is wrong, misguided, unwarranted and just plain silly. It's like shooting the messenger because you don't like the message! Learn what the rules are - then protest to the rule makers.

on the planning meeting? - ellie (9th Jul 2015 - 17:43:19) Alison, I was at the same meeting this morning. The majority of people there were not in favour of the application, it would be misleading to say that. Just because you clapped where you thought appropriate when the developer, or only voice in favour on the commitee spoke, does not mean that the silent majority approved. In fact quite a few people were there for the second application. Thank goodness the committee remembered the SDNP policies. We have a boundary there, there was an appeal against it which was dismissed. This application is all about money. As was pointed out, the medical centre and football facilities have had permission for over 5 years now. There is no constraint to bring forward these community facilities, and indeed the allotments have had permissio for the same length of time. It is the fault of the applicant that they have not allowed any progress on building what has already been allowed. I expect they will appeal this so we will have another round of it!

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - Julie (9th Jul 2015 - 18:04:05) Dawn Wrong! .... It does NOT comply with National Planning Policy Framework Para 116. Natural Environment. National Parks Check out Defra Circular 2010 too Trouble is everyone thinks it's just another housing development. Also wrong. It is in a National Park. Different rules. Government rules, hence SDNPA rules. Boundary has been set - get over it. Developer's marketing campaign has banked on gullibility of public. Must have thought it was worth a gamble. Well duh how much profit would they make? Tory EHDC want housing everywhere. Where's their duty to co-operate with the statutory purpose and duty of the Park? A later post by Dawn explains that her post, (9th Jul 2015 16:37:29), was not about Bohunt - hence some confusion here.

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - A. Ryan (9th Jul 2015 - 18:10:01) Dawn Then why did a Parish Councillor stand and speak to oppose this development, another former Councillor did as well, and three other Parish Councillors who oppose were also there. Surely they are the voice of the people, and quite plainly they are not speaking for the majority, which would seem at odds with their positions, or am I mistaken in that? All those Councillors have favoured the other developments which are not wanted by Liphook residents, so enlighten me as to who they are serving?

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - I (9th Jul 2015 - 18:49:21) A.Ryan, what a complete load of claptrap, how can you possibly claim the majority of residents support this development, this is nonsense, what basis do you make this ridiculous claim. No one including myself can claim to speak for the majority of residents to do so is complete arrogance. I live in the village and can assure you I have a large circle of friends and associates who also live in the village and not one of them support this development. Now I am not claiming this represents the majority of opinion, I am not that arrogant but it does put into question your ridiculous claim

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - A. Ryan (9th Jul 2015 - 20:18:59) -I Did you go to the meeting today at Midhurst? Did you go to any of the exhibitions at the Millenium Hall ? Have you looked at the planning for this development on the SDNP website? And what is this post all about? "No one including myself can claim to speak for the majority of residents to do so is complete arrogance. I live in the village and can assure you I have a large circle of friends and associates who also live in the village and not one of them support this development." Please explain why you are opposed to this. I think everyone knows who I am, my family have been here for generations , pray tell me who are you??

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - I (9th Jul 2015 - 21:19:49) A.ryan,firstly, yes to your questions. Once again you are showing an arrogance by making demands on other contributors that do not agree with you. It's is simply a personal opinion of mine that I do not support building on the scale and of the type suggested on land in the National Park. I do not need to justify that opinion and I do not need you to justify why you have a different opinion. However I do not claim my opinion represents others as you do and I do not demand that others who have a different opinion need to or should justify to me, simple really! And I have reasons (that I do not feel inclined or obliged to explain to you) why I wish to withhold my name. And as this site does not require full disclosure of ones name that is my prerogative

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - ellie (9th Jul 2015 - 21:27:15) How arrogant Alison, to imply you are the only one entitled to have an opinion because you have history in the area. The policies of the Park are there, we should be grateful the Parish Council care about our local environment. Just because they speak against one planning application, does not infer they support others? did they not also speak against the lowesly farm development? What arrogance you have? There were only about 200 people who attended the Lips process not the majority of people in Liphook. To say you speak for the majority is ridiculous. The application was decided on policy grounds, as it should have been, otherwise they lay themselves open to judicial review.

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - Rachael (9th Jul 2015 - 21:30:23) To A.Ryan I have read the various posts and your contributions to them in relation to the development of this land and you have frequently made reference to the many generations your family have lived in liphook. With respect, that is totally irrelevant! Your thoughts on this topic are no more, or no less, important than those like myself who have only lived in Liphook for just a few months. The decisions on the growth of our village affect all of us who live here, regardless of how long we have been lucky enough to live here

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - liz (10th Jul 2015 - 09:18:04) Well said, 'I', your points were very well made.

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - Dawn Hoskins (10th Jul 2015 - 09:26:56) For the avoidance of doubt, I should point out again that my long post (9th Jul 2015 16:37:29) was made in relation to another large planning application - not Bohunt. It is the message about what Parish Councillors are able 'to do' and 'not do' that I wanted to get across to people. If people remain unaware of the planning rules they may wish to blame the P.C. for not being able to refuse an application. I want to make it clear that not being able to refuse is not the same as welcoming it, promoting it or wanting it at all full stop.

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - GM (10th Jul 2015 - 10:31:02) I think it's good that Dawn has highlighted the situation of the PC above. There are some (not all) who feel that the PC have more control or power over certain things than they actually do regarding planning. Personally, I was leaning towards support of the development. But, the SDNP have made their decision (subject to another appeal of course) and I think whether you agree or disagree, that has to be respected. The only thing I have found astounding through this whole affair is how many people didn't read the full application(s) in depth to understand what was involved in the proposal. There has been a lot of rumour mongering, conspiracy theories and here-say over this development, some of which has been totally unfounded. I enjoy a good debate, especially over developments given my background. However, I would urge people who didn't read the details of this application (and others in future) to do so to avoid some of the ugly exchanges that have been on previous threads. But just to be clear, it looks like those on this thread have done so! :-)

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - Hmmmm (10th Jul 2015 - 10:31:59) A. Ryan, Given your very active support for GVI's application and other proposals associated with it, could you clarify whether yourself or family or associates have any vested interest in the applications success? Just wondering.

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - A. Ryan (10th Jul 2015 - 12:01:21) It is astounding the amount of posts that have abuse and vitriol in them. Why? Is it because I support this development and you do not? Am I not allowed that opinion ? Why am I arrogant? -I Could you explain this sentence [ Once again you are showing an arrogance by making demands on other contributors that do not agree with you.] What demands am I making? You oppose I do not, it is that simple, but I am entitled to to voice my opinions as do you. The difference is I do not hurl abuse about. I am stating actual fact that there appear to be more for this development than against, Look on the planning application Rachael. Welcome to the village. There are many including yourself who want to move to Liphook, without new housing this would not be possible. It should make no difference, but in reality it does, knowing a place comes with time, seeing change happen, seeing shops change, people getting older. Liphook is a vastly different place from fifty years ago. I can count myself lucky... or unlucky to experience that. In time you will too. Ellie, You have me at a disadvantage, you know me I am sorry I do not know you.. If you were there at the meeting you would have heard the majority of the committee thought it would be good for Liphook but that they could not set a precedent and allow it to go ahead as it would open the floodgates to more developments being put forward. The woman to whom I clapped I assumed was part of the committee and spoke the truth, I did not know she was anything to do with the developer. From where I sat I could not really see her. Did you not here the tentative clap when I clapped. I know I should not have, but that's me. Hmmmm Why must I have something to do with the developers? We get back to rumours, theories,and the like. No, myself, nor any living, dead or otherwise member of my family have anything to do with the developer or their family, living or dead. For those people that don't know me I am a very ordinary, boring old housewife with three kids, dogs and chickens, nothing more grander than that. Just one note to say if people are going to be rude to me at least have the guts to put your names forward.

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - ellie (10th Jul 2015 - 13:04:22) No one has been rude to you Alison, you have made some very arrogant statements on here. Yes There are a lot of postage pre paid pro forma scripted tick box pre printed forms in support supplied ( by the developer) but there were about 300 people who attended a meeting in the Millennium Hall 2 years ago. Only one member of the public showed support. The rest were anti. The remarks on the website do not prove that the majority of the population of Liphook support the development. There are nearly 9 thousand people young and old living here now, unless there was a paid for referendum of the voters, then you cannot make such sweeping statements and pass them off as fact. The only SDNP committee member to support the app was a former District Councillor, who did not seek re election in May so she is not a councillor anywhere. She actually lives in Rogate.

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - I (10th Jul 2015 - 13:15:05) Alison, no-one is being rude to you, just making an observation about your claims and having a different opinion. Too many users of this site get all prissy and upset when they are challenged or simply not agreed with. You originally claimed "There seems to be an overwhelming support from the residents for this development " This is not a factual statement and can be considered by some like myself an arrogant assumption on your part. Nothing personal, and I don't mean to be rude but it is my (and it appears others) opinion. It is interesting to see that your subsequent post states "I am stating actual fact that there appear to be more for this development than against, Look on the planning application" This is of course different from inferring that the majority of residents of Liphook support this development, that is not factual and would be very difficult to substantiate, as would it be if I claimed the majority do not. And of course Alison, you are entitled to an opinion, as is everyone else who lives in Liphook, regardless of how long they or their families have lived here

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - Question No 7 (10th Jul 2015 - 13:31:57) Hi A Ryan, Far be it for me to speak on behalf of the posts, but I think the issue arises from your comment: 'There seems to be an overwhelming support from the residents for this development and all it brings.....' Whilst several of us may have been to the presentations and meetings at the Millennium Hall, I think it is is safe to assume not all or even the majority of Liphook residents attended. There is the issue of the 'silent majority' who have not made their view clear to either side in this matter, so too assume their support either way I think is the basis of responses received.

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - Dawn Hoskins (10th Jul 2015 - 13:39:12) Alison, you do seem determined to not understand my point? Having explained in great detail the constraints upon which the Parish Council are placed, and how they are unable to refuse an application if certain boxes are ticked you then go on to say that....."All those Councillors have favoured the other developments which are not wanted by Liphook residents".... Do you really not understand that they can only refuse if the application breaches the automatic presumption of acceptance? I have tried hard to explain but you keep responding in the same manner - which confuses me. Also, you must all understand that the Parish Council have only a cursory input on any planning application. The Parish Council are not the decision maker at all.. EHDC are the decision makers - or in Bohunt's case SDNP. It is a shame Alison that you did not stand for the local election, you would then be able to fully understand the way in which the planning department is hamstrung. They DO NOT VOTE FOR large developments, they are simply unable to refuse them. As individuals their views are the same as the parishioners, they would like to say "no, the village is full, the roads are full, the schools are full" etc etc etc - BUT THEY CAN'T. That is a very very long way from being in favour of something. It is really upsetting to hear you 'slagging them off' when you seem to not understand the situation. First Alison, know the rules, then - complain to the people who make the rules. You will find this is not the Parish Council - but they are targeted here because they are an easy target. Do you know the names of the people on the EHDC planning team in Penns Place? Ever met them? talked to them? slagged them off? or is it just the Parish Council (not the decision makers) that you have a problem with?

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - liz (10th Jul 2015 - 14:52:30) A Ryan Describing a comment as "arrogant" is not "abuse and vitriol". That is an exaggeration which leads me to further doubt the accuracy of your other comments. You defend wholeheartedly your right to have your own opinion (and so you should) ..but you don't seem to want anyone else to have theirs!

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - A. Ryan (10th Jul 2015 - 16:23:27) This is my original post: Most agreed at meeting that this would be a good development for the village and was well thought out but opposed it on the grounds of the boundary One would have to say there should be a serious look again at this boundary as it impedes any possible benefits to Liphook. There seems to be an overwhelming support from the residents for this development and all it brings, but again our Parish Council seem bent on ignoring them, also favouring less ideal sites with nothing put forward but housing. There was one lady around the table, her name I did not catch, who spoke for the development, who seemed to be the only sensible one there. Again members of the public seemed keen but again I feel we have been done over One might say if these other developments go ahead then the Parish Council gets what it deserves. Let me clarify, Most agreed at the meeting, ( these were the committee people round the table) The majority, not ALL thought it quite a good development, not exceptional ( their words) but in the wrong place. The boundary; I still think needs to be looked at. Other sites; A lot of people opposed the Chiltley site myself included, but this was one I do believe was recommended by the Parish Council. If I am wrong I am sure you will be quick to let me know! I thought Lowsley farm not the best place because of noise and pollution and too far out of Liphook, hence more traffic. Like many others that went to the meeting that was held last year I too put my spot on the Bohunt site. The lady at the table I thought spoke well, simple. QuestionNo7, Yes you are right there is a silent majority, but you should not presume that they would vote against as I can not presume they would vote for. My stating that the majority voted for, is coming from the planning application and the figures on there, I have not made anything up. Ellie I still can not see what I have said as arrogant? But you do seem to like calling me it .Here are two of them {How arrogant Alison, to imply you are the only one entitled to have an opinion because you have history in the area.} {No one has been rude to you Alison, you have made some very arrogant statements on here.} Nothing in my post is untrue. I have not tried to bend anybody's arm in trying to change their opinion. I am just putting across mine. I am quite happy to accept you opinion and your reasons that is your prerogative. Dawn. { Alison, you do seem determined to not understand my point? } You have a way with people that makes them feel slightly dumb. I have obviously not been educated to your standard, as I believe you were into law. You are right I do not understand, and maybe that is why I did not stand for the council because of it. It is only what I see of the council that I have to go on. Liz If you don't think calling someone arrogant is wrong may I say you too have been arrogant as well. As to what accuracy to my comments are you in doubt. I am sure some of the other people at the meeting could inform you, including a District Councillor. With luck there may be an article in the paper, but maybe you are one of those that think that is all lies and conspiracies. If my phrasing of my words have caused all this rancour then I apologise, and I would obviously fail at English, dismally , nowadays. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I would become so infamous over preferring one development over another. Still as Oscar Wilde would say, "There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about."

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - ellie (10th Jul 2015 - 17:15:31) Hi Alison, we were at the same meeting but heard different things. The members who thought it was an eco/green attempt to get around the "no unrestricted housing in the Park Defra 2010 circular" still said "it does not meet the exceptional test" which applies to development in the Park, which means that it must enhance and protect the park, and benefit the the people who already live in the Park then went on to say, "however the Park has planning policies which cannot be overcome." The boundary was set at a cost of millions, the public enquiry which looked at the boundary issue again did not overturn the boundary at Bohunt Manor. Get over it. It is nonsense to say Lowsley is too far out of the village, it is in the EHDC local plan as their preferred site for housing. The reason the EHDC committee refused extra housing at Lowsley Farm was they were hoping that under the JCC that the Park would take some of their existing housing numbers. They all went on to say, that most of the community facilities have already been given permission, they are the only exceptional developments they would approve, and they already have. Nothing prevents them being built. I do not see it matters that you know me, we have seen the way you respond to people on here.

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - A. Ryan (10th Jul 2015 - 18:54:07) Ellie You write, {I do not see it matters that you know me, we have seen the way you respond to people on here.} What way do I respond to people? If I am being lambasted I will try to defend myself. I can have an opinion, but I do not mock or criticise unless I am being picked on, and I must say I have felt like I have been playing in a Shakespeare play today! Any way all postings are here for eternity so it is not difficult to find the people who post the most cutting of comments, You must have taped the words from the committee at the meeting or have exceptional memory as you seem to have phrased it as though they were the words. You may be right, I just worded it "not exceptional" You would have also heard that three spoke against and three spoke for the development, you can't say fairer than that.

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - Question 7 (10th Jul 2015 - 18:54:41) Hi A Ryan My previous post was completely neutral trying to explain the "abuse and vitriol" response from other parties. I do not presume to speak for the majority of residents and nor should you. I think at best you could have phrased your original post as 'the majority of residents at the meeting' assuming that was your point.

Re: Bohunt any news on the planning meeting? - A. Ryan (10th Jul 2015 - 21:02:07) I will admit defeat .I have been brow beaten on my vocabulary. I am sure you are all pleased I did not stand for Council. As they say. Case closed.

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