Reply to THIS thread
Start a NEW Talkback Thread
Talkback Home

gypsy's back at radford park? - carl (29th Jan 2015 - 21:21:19) Yes they are back any ideas why?

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Gw (30th Jan 2015 - 17:51:30) Bordon is getting too posh so Liphook is next best town? Channel 4 are apparently coming to film a new Big Fat series in the spring. Gentleman start your generators...

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - ellie (30th Jan 2015 - 18:06:57) Probsly becsuse they have been moved on from somewhere else and decided that less people will see them there. The council need to put a lockable arm barrier system in place

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Tiim (30th Jan 2015 - 23:28:08) Carl, just checked but no sign of anyone. Where did you see them?

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Lips (31st Jan 2015 - 07:18:32) The council must be more proactive than blocking off parts of the Parish. They are paid (by us, not "travellers") to maintain the order and see that all are treated equally. So far, thug "travellers" dictate the rules and are treated as 'MORE equal' than the rest of us. The authorities should pardon political correctness and exercise their duty to evict the illegal.

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Ian (31st Jan 2015 - 08:41:58) Lips, are you just referring to these travellers as thugs or all of them, everywhere?

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - h (31st Jan 2015 - 10:04:44) The police would call it a private matter as the council own the car park land, the travellers were legally evicted once, with court papers, but the process has to be gone through every time. The police would not approach without a legal court order. What do you want then? vigilantees? endorsed by the Parish council?

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Phill (31st Jan 2015 - 11:35:14) Thank you Ian. We should be careful what language we use and should not be too quick to judge. Has anyone spoken with these people? Is there any nuisance caused other than the noise of a generator? Usually best to resolve issues through friendly cooperation rather than acrimony and coercion.

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Donna (31st Jan 2015 - 12:14:12) Just got a hot chocolate and some popcorn ready for this to all kick off!! Lips, whoever you are, you certainly do like to stir it up on a Saturday afternoon,

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Lips (31st Jan 2015 - 21:09:59) Hi Ian: I was referring to the general fact that one is more likely to get away with illegal activity if they belong to a minority e.g. gypsies. Illegal is illegal; be it paedophiles, terrorists, squatters, trespassers etc. They should all be treated according to the law with equal urgency and determination. Hello Phill: I agree problems are best be resolved before the intervention of the law, especially when the law is slow. If I’m not mistaken, it seems the caravan takes layby space that was never intended for “long-term camping”, possibly obstructing traffic using the layby as intended. The generator seems to block the pavement; do I have to spell what pavements were meant for? I may be wrong; I have not had a closer look. …and dearest Donna: Yes, I do know who I am, and sorry but not all that tempted by the combination of hot chocolate and popcorn. However, do have a splendid Saturday night (out of the generator humming zone).

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Ian (1st Feb 2015 - 08:33:22) Lips, you still haven't explained why you appear to have labelled a whole group of people as thugs, is this because you are deeply prejudiced? Based on this thread and others on talkback you have contributed to it would appear you are? Very unpleasant!

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - dear deardie (1st Feb 2015 - 13:28:41) I really don't get why you have to moan I'm fed up with with you because lips why do you stir up so much in a way I find it fascinating because your a hypocrite well have a good day bye!

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Lips (1st Feb 2015 - 13:32:47) Ian: firstly, I choose not to go down your path and blame you and accuse you of what I may think of you. Secondly, I never personally named the people in that caravan as thugs; however, I do group all those of thuggish behaviour as thugs, yes. So should anyone assume I place them in a certain group this would either be a misunderstanding, or they themselves find enough common traits with that very group. Thirdly, and I hope lastly, not all subjects are pleasant, I wish they were. I choose to tackle problems head-on and call a spade a spade. Thus, there’s some food for thought for yourself before you choose to label me as prejudice or an unpleasant person; how well do you actually know me? Your recent entry was prejudice and unpleasant!

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - tony (1st Feb 2015 - 14:15:56) Actually Lips, like it or not (and I take it you're a not), gypsies are not breaking the law. It's a civil matter like any other housing issue. Sorry Lips, we can't just make travelling illegal because it scares you. Irrespective of the bad travellers selling their tat to the unwary, who we should all be mature enough to avoid, the majority are law abiding, just a little different to you and me in their ways of life. I can live with that, can you?

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - ian (1st Feb 2015 - 16:25:31) Lips, I am judging and labelling you individually purely based on your postings here, you are prejudiced and your postings are unpleasant. I judge people on their actions, not because of what group of our community they come from, unlike you! Your last post shows you are not just prejudiced but deeply hypocritical and ignorant as well.

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Lips (1st Feb 2015 - 17:34:19) Tony: Call it illegal or antisocial, reality is that gypsies are left unaffected whilst civilised taxpayers would have been immediately removed and faced faster justice. It does scare me that some are allowed more than others. It scares me that authorities are at best dithering dealing with gypsy nuisance for personal fear of persecution and being labelled as racist or similar. It scares me that so many people like I don’t dare voicing their legitimate opinion from fear of being backlashed and labelled by an angry mob of ‘good doers’. We can play the game of terminology and bending words, as PCs love doing. Not illegal, but civil ASBO. Not forceful nuisance settlers, but “travellers”… Thank you for the lesson in gypsy statistics. I reiterate, my words go out against those who have done wrong against the general public (illegal or ASBO). My protest does NOT apply to any gypsy who had never done such wrong. Those who choose to be offended / upset anyway are those who misunderstood me or those who have indeed done such wrong. Yes, I can readily live with the sociable and law abiding gypsies. Bring those on!

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - DM (2nd Feb 2015 - 00:20:57) Anyone heard when these Travellers /Eastern Europeans are leaving their illegal camp in the Lay-by? Starting to get very fed up with continuous generator noise and men shouting every night until late. It has been a real eye opener of how slow and incompetent both East Hants Council and Hampshire County Councils have been. No one wants to take responsibility. They have been dithering over who owns the land the caravan is on for weeks. A caravan clearly illegally parked on a public highway totally blocking a public footpath with a generator running to 1am every night keeping people awake. Totally unacceptable nothing has been done. Is the local MP aware of these issues..? .. Noise nuisance to local residents, possible welfare/safety issues for the caravan occupiers ? Why the council have not offered a safe relocation of these travellers who appear to need help?

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Richard Robertson (2nd Feb 2015 - 04:55:16) And as far as we know the travellers that have been in Radford Park and on the London Road have been law abiding, unless Lips knows any different. If you can welcome 'law abiding gypsies' than why do you not acknowledge that they are law abiding. Lips will probably counter this with an argument that they are parked illegally or causing a noise nuisance, but they are not committing any crime where police action would be rapid (ie: endangerment to life / criminal activities in general) so leave them be. PS stop hiding behind anonymity. If you can sit on a keyboard ranting but can't put your name to it than keep your unwanted and unhelpful opinions to yourself

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - ellie (2nd Feb 2015 - 17:16:49) the london Rd travellers are blocking the pavement, with the generator yes but there are no yellow lines so surely they are not parked illegally? I think that there is a massive waiting list of homeless people living rough who deserve to be indoors, they are at least warm in a caravan, they maybe choose to live in a caravan because it is cheaper, when one is in a fixed abode all kinds of bills kick in! Council Tax, rent, water, electricity etc. Perhaps they are not eligible for benefits either? what would they be entitled to as single men ? approx 30 per week? Think it through! Perhaps they are moving around to find work?

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Lips (3rd Feb 2015 - 07:20:00) Richard Robinson (maybe , or maybe a pseudonym like many on here): Turning the argument into a personal onslaught on me is not more helpful than my opinions on here. I’ve the right to anonymity (even though Lips is actually a name I’m known by). I’ve the right to publish my opinions relevant to the thread (I never initiated any personal exchange against anybody, which can’t be said about you) even if you fail to understand them and call them unhelpful / unpleasant. Thank you for your instructions what I should or shouldn't do, I chose to ignore. In case you failed to notice, anonymity allows those with less popular yet very legitimate opinions to contribute, expecting fewer backlashes from aggressive / angry cyber users. Instead of attacking me and suggest I must stop contributing, attempting to muzzle me - remember you can always not read my contributions and certainly welcome to not respond to them. Je suis Charlie.

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - ian (3rd Feb 2015 - 10:25:21) No-one is trying to muzzle you Lips but don't feel surprised when your unpleasant posts provoke a reaction. Most would not object to you raising the valid point that public spaces should not be used for unauthorised settlement and if they are, the authorities should act quickly and decisively. What is so objectionable and offensive is the rhetoric you use in grouping all travellers as thugs. I'm afraid your type that hide their racist views with anonymity fuel prejudice and bigotry and other users of this forum are free to point this out.

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Lips (3rd Feb 2015 - 11:53:54) Ian: You never understood (tried though I had) and I fear never will understand my points. I have never grouped all travellers as thugs, only those who behave as thugs. I’m happy for reactions relevant to my postings and the thread subject; however, I never initiated personal insults, whilst you and Richard have. I’m not sure why the Moderator will not spare those from this thread. This is borderline bullying. Perhaps start a new thread: “Come along, abuse Lips”? My husband was right about comments on this forum. Read your own entry, you refer to me as `YOUR TYPE`: that’s bigot grouping!!! I had gypsy friends; race was never an issue and is not an issue for me here. I shan't explain to you AGAIN about how anonymity IS constructive and legitimate – in fact I will not waste my time justifying any of my other points to you again. For the sake of other thread readers, I will ignore you and Richard from now on.

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Ian (3rd Feb 2015 - 13:27:37) Bullying, come off it Lips, if you will post inflammatory generalisations and demand your freedom of speech you can hardly object to some of us sharing our opinions about you and your postings. You can't have it both ways!

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Julie (3rd Feb 2015 - 15:01:12) Here here Ian, if people are going to give out stick you've got to learn to take it too.

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Another Anon, not a fool. (3rd Feb 2015 - 16:42:20) I have to agree with everything that LIPS has been saying. It also proves a point about intimidation, plenty of that going on here. Only a fool would put their real name when saying anything detrimental about the gypsy community. I think some of these posters on here are very naive. The truth hurts sometimes.True not all can be tarred with the same brush,and some do not use gypsy status for their own gain but there are many who have had unfortunate dealings with some families. LIPS is right, they seem to be above the law regarding certain things, and that is wrong and unfair. As a society we would not be allowed to do what they can do. There should be one law governing us all.

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - tony (3rd Feb 2015 - 21:50:13) Anon (number 2) said: "As a society we would not be allowed to do what they can do. There should be one law governing us all." ------------- Anon, there is but one law governing us all. Well actually it's a minefield of zillions of little bits of law from case law (you need to trawl through that stuff) to statutory law, then you can hire expensive lawyers to spend years and another zillion pounds trying to decipher it. At the end you have to trust some dithery old judge to decide whose right. The politicians, bankers, property developers and most of big business are masters at playing it (and us) for fools. But mustn't grumble, it's the law and all that. Yet when we think that some travelling family clinging onto their way of life in a caravan might be parked by the side of the road for a little bit too long, even though their traditional way of life far predates our concreted town, we are jumping up and down and spitting with rage. One law for them another for us, we scream.. See the irony? Yes they might be working the law to the max (working the law is within the law), but it's their RIGHT to do that, as much as it is Mr Developer's to wine, dine and lunch the politicians before his lawyers put in the next planning application for another zillion homes in rural England! The solution is clearly for the government to put a little of it's billions spent on foreign aid, wars, etc to designate some proper facilities for our travelling communities, so they don't need to park up by the side of the road! (Rant over).

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Keith (4th Feb 2015 - 09:52:57) The fundamental problem is that East Hampshire does not have any official sites for travellers and therefore with some justification the travellers can claim "Sorry Guv, we've got nowhere else to go" Although several sites have been proposed over the years, any parish, district or county councillor (and to some degree our MP too), know that to suggest having an official site in their own area would be to commit electoral suicide - this thread by itself demonstrates the strength of feeling on both sides (although some of the name-calling and arguments in this thread (on both sides) should have been left behind in the primary school playground). Although not normally in favour of quangos, I think this is one area where a non-elected quango with compulsory purchase rights is the only answer. This 'body' would be able to allocate a site, buy it at market rates, and those around it would have to like it or lump it but at least it would then help the authorities move ad-hoc travellers on.

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Lips (4th Feb 2015 - 11:01:17) ….Here we go yesterday, new attempts to justify how gypsies are should stay above common law: The gypsies ‘have the right’ to be above the law because other groups (e.g. bankers & developers) are too?!?! Lovely, let’s all go above the law because some do, come one come all…. The gypsies ‘have the right’ to be above the law because their way of life pre-dates our concreted town and state law?!?!?! Brilliant: before the state law we had feudal, monarchy, Roman, Norman, Saxons, French, mammoths etc.… Let’s allow them all to override the state law because they were here before us! - Actually, sounds like an interesting proposition to me! I agree regards to primary school level of argument above. Should the council allocate and pay for a special site on ‘lifestyle’ or ethnic grounds? Out of whose pocket will the funds come from? Is this justice? Would this ache towards discrimination of the ‘positive’ variety? Or worse: what is the definition of a Ghetto? When I decided I fancied moving into Liphook I never expected to be given free land and paid-for services from nobody. Most of us work hard and legally to pay the tax and services to afford our home and lifestyle. Why should we pay for those who won’t? I would agree with council-subsidised lifestyle of special groups voted as welcome in a democratic CONFIDENTIAL Parish vote. Only confidentiality, like anonymity – give true representation of conscious.

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Keith (4th Feb 2015 - 13:07:03) Lips Whether EHDC should pay for such a site is already enshrined in legislation - they have to pay for such a site, so your referendum would be largely redundant, the law is already there. What they have failed to do (despite some persistent efforts by some of their officers), is to establish a permanent site. Until they do, the problem will just roll on. By the way, it's not just EHDC dragging their heels on this, Havant BC, Winchester City Council and many other local authorities don't have permanent sites either (although I believe there either is/are plans for) a site in the New Forest.

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - liz (4th Feb 2015 - 15:19:44) Isn't there a site for travellers at Headley Down?

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Keith (4th Feb 2015 - 15:35:06) If there is then it doesn't have permission as EHDC refused permission see this article travellerspace-gypsyroads.blogspot.co.uk/... There IS a long standing site there "Grayshott council said land next to the proposed site at Stallions of Substance Lodge was already used by travelling Showpeople, so further development should not go ahead."

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Lips (4th Feb 2015 - 18:38:25) Here’s another attempt at social ‘justice’ earlier today. Assuming we all agree to accept existing rather than pre-Magna Carta law: Most must keep pay their bills and to uphold the enshrined law. In the same time other individuals illegitimately occupy a public pavement, don’t pay their bill, yet are entitled for paid-for land and services …

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Diane (4th Feb 2015 - 19:11:17) Surely the best solution to this problem is for them to get together and buy theire own pieces of land ,get permission from the councils FIRST and have their own sites. Failing that some generous minded person buys the land equips it and rents sites out to them.

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - roo (4th Feb 2015 - 19:40:47) While every body is slagging each other off has anybody actually seen these gypsy, A I have walked my dog up there several times in the past week and have not seen sight nor sound off them

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - G (8th Feb 2015 - 22:48:35) Gypsy and two other men along with their caravan and generator gone from the London Rd lay-by? Driveway company seen removing them this morning.

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Dawn Hoskins (10th Feb 2015 - 15:33:58) When Councils actually comply with their legal duty to provide sites - then the Gypsies and Travellers pay taxes just like the rest of us. Even ‘transit’ sites for those just passing through have a financial charge. It is our disinterested and NIMBY authorities that are permanently dragging their feet over the issue and failing in their duty to provide these sites. Gypsies and travellers are not state scroungers, for them – there is shame attached to not earning a living, which is why they have always travelled to where the work is. We on the other hand have those in our community who are quite happy to not work and live of State benefits. Gypsies and Travellers stick to their traditions because they are proud of their culture and this is generally true of all us. I am only half Scottish but feel immensely proud of that heritage. My sons wear their kilts with pride. We all want to celebrate or annual traditions from Samhain through to playing conkers – because that is what makes us – us. I find the sentiment that there are no Gypsies or Travellers now - only descendants quite absurd. I am part Scottish and very proud of it thank you very much despite being ‘only’ a descendant! How could it be right for us to demand to keep our traditions alive but in the same breath constantly berate and criticise Gypsies and Travellers for wanting to do the same? They live differently. So what. Is this such a big deal? Really? What right do we have to demand they change their traditions and how ‘big’ are we really if we continue to marginalise them for not conforming to ‘our’ ways – whilst we hold very dearly on to our ways, refuse to change, and pass this legacy down our generations. It is totally hypocritical and illogical. There is a national shortage of authorised sites for Gypsies and Travellers. All the time this stupidity continues, there will be unauthorised encampments. This shortage of sites means the only way around it is for Gypsies and Travellers to buy their own land on which to live (and pay taxes on). Although – as we have seen very clearly demonstrated in our locality, they often don’t get a chance to even live on their own land as members of the public whip up a s**t-storm and object to any plans they submit. So they move in, build their washhouses and apply for retrospective planning permission (which they are just as much entitled to do as any other person). It is not against the law to apply for retrospective permission. Did you know that one in four Gypsy and Traveller households having nowhere to call home? With regard to Councils doing more: it is always the landowner's responsibility – so if Gypsies or Travellers are on council land, then the council can apply to evict them – but not if they are on private land. Even on Council land, Central Government has advised that if they are not causing a problem, the site may be tolerated. Each case is considered on its merits so even if the Council wants to move them on and tries to obtain the relevant court order –the Court can refuse it if they feel there is an unavoidable reason for them to be there. As far as the police are concerned, they must observe all the relevant health and welfare requirements in UK laws and also the Human Rights Act. Their obvious duty is to keep the peace and although trespass may be a nuisance, it is a Tort and not a criminal offence – so it is not the job of police to remove them. If you want to lobby anyone about anything, then lobby EHDC about their continued lack of provision of settled sites and transit sites. Maligning an entire group of people because you do not understand their culture just shows you up to be narrow-minded, prejudiced and bigoted.

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - JMP (10th Feb 2015 - 17:28:48) Good points made. But this so called Gypsy known as John and the two Polish men were a clear nuisance. Running a loud petrol generator very late at night near residential homes, going to the toilet in the bushes and littering near a river. There was also shouting and apparently threats were made to local residents. Yes John you were recorded mate. The question people need to ask is what is a Gypsy and two Polish men were doing in a tiny caravan mid winter? Working as slaves on driveways? See C4 doc later this year.......3 Men and a Big Fat Generator

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Stacey (10th Feb 2015 - 18:39:47) I understand everyone is entitled to an opinion, but it is laughable to suggest that travellers on official sites pay tax. Which Tax ? A caravan does not attract council tax, and if income tax is paid by anyone in the same way as we do I would be surprised. I think that a permanent site, does not imply they are there all the time.

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - stacey (10th Feb 2015 - 18:51:00) Another point to make is that the travelling community claim the same benefits as the rest of us. They also use state schools, NHS, and some elderly do also end up in our care homes. Just because they are earning money, does not signify that they are A, paying any tax, or B not claiming the same benefits. I cannot think of one benefit unavailable to travellers. All one needs to claim most benefits is a Bank Account and National Insurance Number, easily obtained.

Re: gypsy's back at radford park? - Kevin Jackson (11th Feb 2015 - 16:43:42) Dawn I take issue with these two statements in your last post: "When Councils actually comply with their legal duty to provide sites - then the Gypsies and Travellers pay taxes just like the rest of us" and "It is our disinterested and NIMBY authorities that are permanently dragging their feet over the issue and failing in their duty to provide these sites." These remarks are at best naïve and at worst just plain stupid. Local councils do try to find sites for travellers only to be worsted at every turn, not only by the people who live near the proposed sites but also by the travellers' themselves who don't want to move there and who would much prefer to purchase land at agricultural prices and then live on it. Who wouldn't and as the law stands that is exactly what they can do. It is not the councils who are NIMBY but nearby residents and who can blame them. I would not want to live near a travellers' site, not just because of possible anti social behaviour, but because my own property would immediately become de-valued.

Reply to THIS thread
Talkback Home