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Liphook - The new Hampshire building site - JP (19th Jan 2015 - 16:27:34) I just thought you should be made aware of the new plans Old Thorns have submitted to this on-going battle over Weavers Down being turned in to yet another Golf Course: planningpublicaccess.southdowns.gov.uk/... This is so sad to see after the massive tree felling done there without approval by the Forestry Commission Liphook is now being turned in to a developers play ground. SDNP/13/02300/FUL - although from 2013 new documents have been added today

Re: Liphook - The new Hampshire building site - Old Thorns Neighbour (19th Jan 2015 - 17:13:30) "Should a heathland course not be viable then Old Thorns would look to using land as a form of revenue, permitted development rights would allow 28 days use for activities such as paintballing, quad biking and clay pigeon shooting. With limited income opportunity from the land Old Thorns may look as a last resort to auctioning off to the highest bidder, which could lead to representation from the travelling community or ............Old Thorns would naturally never wish this to happen, however should be born in mind when considering the proposed heathland restoration." After reading this in the latest documents displayed on the planning application page I think it's a case of either you let us have our second Golf course or this is what will happen!

Re: Liphook - The new Hampshire building site - S (19th Jan 2015 - 17:46:56) SHOCKING that they are issuing such ultimatums in the planning document!! This application should be considered on its own merit (or lack of) and not on the risk of the other options being worse. I also think that is totally farcical as there is NO WAY Old Thorns would want or permit a site for travellers right next door to them. Do they really need to make revenue from Weaver's Down? The amount of development they've already made is obviously earning them a LOT of money, only have to look at the gym prices to see how much they must be pulling in. There are other places where resorts like Old Thorns have made efforts to conserve land and habitats that they own - of course we would not be so lucky here. If the land has no planning permissions for development and does end up being sold, might there be some way of a community buy-out so the land is conserved by the village? Or a community fundraiser to help the SDNP purchase the land? There must be some other option, it's like keeping the land for it's own value is not even an option - well it IS an option so let's talk about it!

Re: Liphook - The new Hampshire building site - roo (19th Jan 2015 - 18:02:38) Can some one please explain why old thorns needs a second golf course making 3 in liphook in total. Surely the two existing courses are not used to full capacity, so there is no justification for a third course. And judging by old thorns last post if they don't get what they want then the village will face the consequences, SURELY its time to stop these people holding the village to ranson.

Re: Liphook - The new Hampshire building site - David (19th Jan 2015 - 21:56:31) What is going on around here ,we have fences opposite the damaged flats ,and why has nothing been done to sort that building out and reopen the road?Further the building work on the Sainsbury site that seems to be growing daily.And then there is the cutting of trees up at iron hill aand along by the golf course although some replanting has been done here,and down the lane near south road and what a mess it is.Seems that the planners or council have no control around here.

Re: Liphook - The new Hampshire building site - S (19th Jan 2015 - 23:15:33) A brainwave? LAWDD: Liphook Against Weavers Down Development .....Like, 'LOUD'?!! Could catch on?! Incite unity in the community?!

Re: Liphook - The new Hampshire building site - bdavies (20th Jan 2015 - 07:53:09) Please ensure that you point out to the SDNP authority if/when you object that the statement that holds us to ransom over the decision does not affect our resolve and should not affect that of the SDNP. As to the alternatives that Old Thorns proposes, I think that they underestimate what sustained bad publicity could do to their business.

Re: Liphook - The new Hampshire building site - NMG (20th Jan 2015 - 21:36:16) Just a small point, and playing Devils Advocate; If Old Thorns wish to carry out permitted development or change of use, why shouldn't they. If individuals wish to oppose, carefully consider what they would do in the same situation. Most human beings would be overcome with the opportunity of increasing ones wealth, and therefore providing security for their family. As with any land, it could always be changed or developed in some way. The only way to absolutely secure such land is to own it.

Re: Liphook - The new Hampshire building site - Consider this (21st Jan 2015 - 00:08:30) The family who have invested so much borrowed money into the development of Old thorns have created a fantastic local private amenity. they have built this, that and the next thing from what was a tired old place. I understand (from informed sources) that they have a sale agreed with an American operator if they have TWO golf courses. This may be total fiction, of course, but you can see the motivation in their procedures if it were true. A Travellers site next to a big, posh hotel complex would be just what they would wish for, wouldn't it

Re: Liphook - The new Hampshire building site - S (21st Jan 2015 - 00:36:33) NMG - It is fine to play devils advocate but have you read about this proposal? Yes it is in our human nature to develop these opportunities and increase our wealth; but we say that we now live in a 'civilised' society. Supposedly our society is now self-aware and able to look at the bigger picture, and our historic tactic of 'growth, growth, growth' is not working. Growth is finite but the resources we are lucky to have on this planet are not. The development of Weaver's Down is slightly different to some of the other developments proposed here at the moment, for example the Sainsbury's site that is currently being developed is the old MOD land and is a brownfield site. Clearly new housing needs to happen, and personally I think that all possible routes for development of brownfield sites and existing empty properties should be considered before any greenfield development is allowed to happen. Of course this isn't a building development, but using this heathland as a golf course will have other impacts, such as human disturbance and the use of chemicals to maintain the new greens. The proposed golf course is on common land, owned by Old Thorns but it is open-access to the public, so the proposal will be disruptive to people who regularly pass by the site, and obviously people do not want to walk through the middle of a golf course... It is possible that people will avoid passing through here for the risk of golf-ball-injuries! Additionally, the access route to the course would pass through parts of Weaver's Down that are designated SAC (Special Area of Conservation) and SSSI (Site of Special Scientific Interest) & SPA (Special Protection Area).... That is a valid cause for concern because although the heathland can benefit from some human disturbance so that spaces are cleared for important species, too much human traffic would prevent species from colonising these areas. Rabbits are also important for clearing space within the heathland for sand lizard breeding, and I don't believe golf courses and rabbit holes are particularly compatible? (in fact their documents state that they are likely to be 'discouraged from the greens and mown fairways in particular') I know it will be a heathland golf course but green areas are still proposed. Some important species that are present include a population of the rare sand lizard (if you don't know about the sand lizard this might not sound like a big deal, but it really is!). There is also a small population of smooth snakes (our rarest reptile), and breeding birds including nightjars, woodlarks and Dartford warblers. For each of these species the land comprises over 1% of their UK breeding population which is not an insignificant amount. There's also rare and protected insects at the site such as the mottled bee fly, grayling butterfly, cinnabar moth and bush-cricket. The proposed area for development isn't within the protected area but what I think is important is that the land is connected to the protected areas and also to the Weald which is the most important heathland area in southern England. The whole area has been identified as a priority for heathland restoration and heathland corridor creation, and it's so important to have connectivity of our heathlands. The UK has 20% of the whole world's heathland, and most of our heathland habitats have been destroyed in the last 100 years. They are home to a plethora of species that can't survive elsewhere, and (for those of you requiring a human benefit to justify their value) are really important carbon stores. Disturbance from recreation is an increasing threat (see the State of Nature Report) and this proposed development at Old Thorns is a classic example of this threat. Their documents state that 'damage might be caused by vehicles during the construction phase. Maintenance of green and fairways might reduce the value of the grassland'. They also state the development and ongoing use could disturb birds using the SSSI, could damage reptiles through damage from machinery or by collapsing their hibernation sites. It also states a loss of reptile habitat through the forming of the greens and access tracks. Some other claims are made in their documents which are admirable but in reality I doubt their sincerity. E.g. "Old Thorns can fund a warden from the income of the heathland course" and habitat improvements.... Call me a cynic but Old Thorns show absolute disregard for the wildlife and conservation of the area currently, there is no reason to expect they will suddenly become environmentally conscious when they have got what they want! I very highly recommend anyone to read the State of Nature Report (2013) - it's very readable and a hugely important document. Iolo William's accompanying speech is a must-watch, although he speaks of Wales, the situation is exactly the same and just as applicable here. It's so important to conserve our local habitats, it may not seem like a lot of land to some, but it all adds up to a lot through the country and our region. This is particularly concerning as it is heathland, a habitat that is so sensitive and already declining. I think this speech has a really relevant message and I wish that the management of Old Thorns who are pushing for this application would have a watch!!:

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