Reply to THIS thread
Start a NEW Talkback Thread
Talkback Home

European Elections - Eneida (13th May 2009 - 10:25:29) I didn't want to go off topic on the Delicious thread, but Allan raised an interesting point which has been puzzling me. "Who are the candidates???" So I've googled and found out there are 133 of them for our region (South East) spread over 15 parties and the ONLY one I've ever heard of is Nigel Farage from UKIP. Some of the party names mean nothing to me either and I've no idea what they stand for. For example JT, CPCPA, LIB-EU, ENG. DEM, SLP, TPP, UKF and most intriguing ROMAN....do you think they're for Italians living in our area? So with all these unknowns how the hell are we supposed to choose a candidate? Don't these people ever communicate with their electorate? I'm sure they do very well out of the tax payer too, but we're obviously not worth talking to. Well I'd never vote for someone I've never even heard of, so that makes my choice quite easy, if I can be bothered to vote at all....personally I don't see the point of any of them or the EU...guess that makes it even easier ;) Eneida

Re: European Elections - Barry Hope (13th May 2009 - 15:03:03) Eneida If you want to know a little more about one of our MEP's take look at this video by Daniel Hannan, MEP who is not afraid of speaking his mind. www.youtube.com/watch.. Regards Barry

Re: European Elections - Eneida (13th May 2009 - 16:08:18) Thanks for that link Barry :) Yes, Mr Hannan was good and I don't know if you saw it, but he was followed by Nigel Farege at the same session (I imagine)...he was brilliant!! Gordon grinned throughout both speeches like someone receiving care in the community....what is it with that man :(

Re: European Elections - Allan (13th May 2009 - 17:07:31) Eneida, That smile is the stock in trade of a skilled undertaker, applied to the face of the dead but as yet, unburied!

Re: European Elections - Michael Grimes (13th May 2009 - 19:23:35) Eneida, The European Elections will be conducted (in the UK) under the D’Hondt closed list Proportional Represention System. I understand that this means that individual candidate names will not be on the ballot paper so will vote for your preferred party instead, the 10 seats in our region are then allocated based on (but not actually in proportion to) the number of votes cast for each party using the D’Hondt formula. This implies that we won't be able to vote for both the candidates we have heard of.

Re: European Elections - Eneida (15th May 2009 - 09:24:07) Thanks for the explanation Mike. I didn't realise these elections are held on a different system and we have to vote for a party rather than an individual candidate. I suppose that's why they're all 'faceless'. I still can't see the point of MEPs or the EU....it's just another expense for the tax payer isn't it? I'm sure they all sit in their offices all day thinking of what they can do next to upset the British. After all we seem to be the only nation that fully implement their laws...all the other countries seem to find ways to 'bend the rules' from what I've read.

Re: European Elections - John Lush (17th May 2009 - 12:43:12) Eneida The European Union brings the UK huge benefits on an economic and a political sphere! And i am assuming you are reading rags such as the mail and the express with your comment about rules and laws. I would recommend you undertake a little more research before you make such a sweeping statement! Kind Regards

Re: European Elections - Eneida (17th May 2009 - 17:13:21) Dear Mr Lush, Was it really necessary to send such a rude post?? You're are, of course, entitled to your opinions regarding the 'huge benefits' the UK receives from the EU....I happen to disagree and I am, obviously, not the only one! As far as my 'laws and bending the rules' comment, I recommend you don't make mistaken assumptions as to why I wrote that. I didn't actually read it anywhere...I know a great many people who live in different European countries and to take just one example, they all say that it's still permitted to smoke indoors in bars and cafes, where separate areas are provided and certain air extractors used. So their businesses aren't being forced to shut for lack of customers, unlike our pubs! And Kind Regards to you too Eneida

Re: European Elections - barbara (18th May 2009 - 11:17:32) Is the thirty million quid per day we spend on Europe one of our benefits?

Re: European Elections - Chris (18th May 2009 - 12:54:41) Benefits...let's see...a cost of £15bn per year, fraud, corruption, beaurocracy, the handing over control of our agricultural and fisheries and the surrender of our fishing grounds resulting in ecological disaster and wasteage. Not to mention one-way job opportunities and immigration. The EU is a dated institution with dated economic principles! Britain would get greater benefits being part of the global economy which represents greater economic return.

Re: European Elections - Dawn Hoskins (18th May 2009 - 15:48:27) One of the problems we have in the UK is that we only ever hear negative press about the European Union and EU Community Law. Apart from the very important fact that it reduces the possibility of wars between member nations (one of the main reasons it was established after WW2) there are many other benefits to us as members. Before full membership, countries used to charge busnesses ridiculous amounts of tax to bring their goods across borders. This is now a total thing of the past and we have all got used to eating foods from all around the world etc. No longer can the UK charge a preventative / punitive fee to importers which artificially inflates prices of oversees goods. (and vica verca). As consumers, the concept of free movement of goods, has benefitted us enormously. Also, although one person has stated that the free movement of people is only ‘one way’ that is only because us ‘British’ are too lazy to learn foreign languages. If you want to work in Spain, France, Italy – wherever you can quite easily learn the language and start a new life. It is no more difficult for us than it is for the other Europeans to learn English and come here – so complaining that it is one way should be viewed more as an English weakness rather than a failing of the system. The EU Urasmus scheme also allows our university students to travel to any EU country to do part of their degree abroad which has been very popular. How marvellous and what a brilliant opportunity! I expect you have been reading in the papers today about how soldiers should now be covered by basic Human Rights? Ie: be given the correct equipment so they don’t die unnecessarily. Although the ECHR is a different authority – it does basically stem from being members of the EU. So membership improves our justice system by giving a further point of appeal. This has also given workers great improvements in the work place which would never have happened if it was up to the UK alone. Equal pay for women etc..etc..etc.. I realise that there are negatives – and in the UK we really don’t like the loss of sovereignty that comes hand in hand with membership. But you should take all the negative spin with a pinch of salt and try to remember the benefits as well. I know you have to try pretty hard to find positives in the press – but they are out there.

Re: European Elections - Eneida (18th May 2009 - 16:39:17) Dawn, Just like to make one comment regarding the 'one way movement of people' regarding jobs. I've had conversations with several British people who've tried to get jobs in Spain, France, Italy and Portugal in order to start a new life...and although they were fluent in the local language, all they could get were very menial jobs (if at all) which didn't pay enough to live on. It's not as easy as you think and at the moment with the credit crunch, even harder....I don't really know about other EU countries, but these particular ones always put their own nationals first. Eneida

Re: European Elections - Dawn Hoskins (18th May 2009 - 17:08:26) I have only known people who have applied for the jobs before they left. I think that is the only sensible way of doing it - especially if you have children. I have read horror stories of people turning up in French villages or Spanish ones with no language at all - expecting the state schools to educate their children. With plans to open holiday villas. These usually end in disaster - any small village in a rural area would be the same. Imagine a highly skilled professional arriving in Liphook and expecting to find a great job! Finding a good job is never easy - in any country. Especially now there is more competition for every vacancy. I know lawyers who have happily settled with their families all over europe (as well as Australia) so I suppose some professions travel better than others. They would not have been able to do this before FMOP was established.

Re: European Elections - Allan (19th May 2009 - 00:23:37) We need to come out. Europe has done nothing for the benefit of our country and society. They do not like us, will not listen to us, and will continue to screw us for billions - for what return? I like the idea of a concord to trade freely without tarrifs, but why do we have to conform to Franco/German/Italian/Romanian?Belgian/Spanish/et al standards and ideas/laws as to how we run the UK.....at Huge cost?

Re: European Elections - Chris (19th May 2009 - 08:03:40) Of course, the biggest farce is the promised referundum that never materialised, promised by all parties in the lead-up to the last election if I remember correctly. Way back in the early 1970s when our last referundum was held under Heath, the EEC was smaller scale with smaller scale ambitions. People voting for membership then could not envisage the loss of sovereignty and loss of local government power that actually has resulted 36 years on. And then of course there is the infamous Human Rights act of 1998 that allows people to claim their rights (under the European Convention on Human Rights) in UK courts and tribunals. This has handcuffed our own judicial system when it has tried and consequently failed to punish people who more than deserved punishment under UK law. The reason why we haven't had another referundum? The Labour government (which supports greater EEC integration) fears a forced withdrawal!

Re: European Elections - Eneida (19th May 2009 - 09:27:29) I wish we could get out Allan, but I suppose it's too late now! Funnily enough, we were talking about the Heath referendum in the 70s, last night. When we voted 'yes' to join I imagined it would be something like EFTA, only with more countries. Never in a million years did I think it would grow into a political monster that could, eventually, even dictate what sort of light bulb I HAD to use....we were conned!! EFTA is still going, you know....perhaps we could rejoin. Only 4 countries now - Iceland, Liechenstein, Norway, Switzerland - but at least we could get good deals on fish, chocolates, clocks and false teeth and no EU poking their noses into our everyday lives. We would also save a fortune on MEPs. Eneida

Re: European Elections - Allan (19th May 2009 - 16:18:07) Well, Eneida, there is only one party that will guarantee that outcome

Re: European Elections - John Lush (19th May 2009 - 21:19:20) Eneida Please don't take my comments personally, i accept that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, both yourself and allan have not raised any considerable arguments for leaving the EU - you seem obsessed with the trival, daily mail bendy banana agenda, ignoring so many other things. I am not claiming for one moment the EU is perfect, far from it, it needs reform for sure but the benefits far outweigh the negatives. We lost soverignty years ago as a country, we live in a global world now. Climate change, terrorism, the economy are now all world isses where one country, a small island after all can not make a difference without world co-operation. I don't hear people complaining about how out stock exchange catches a cold when wall street sneezes, isn't that a loss of soverignty?! Leaving the EU would be simple crazyness - the economic and most importantly diplomatic consquences don't bear thinking about. And as for referendums, i am not a fan. We live in an indirect democracy. Take a look at the 01 and 05 general elections, the pro-european parties between them gained 60% of the popular vote- its a myth to suggest britain would vote for leaving. The govt promised a referendum on the constitution, what we have now is not a constitution as that was rejected. I am not claiming its perfect but thats hear some heavyweight points from the sceptics, not trivial tabloid-esque words we are getting from them now!

Re: European Elections - Mike Grimes (20th May 2009 - 00:31:17) Interestingly, the party most likely to pull us out of the EU will probably, under the current circumstances, poll well in the European parliamentary elections because, if nothing else, it seems like a relatively harmless protest vote. They need to do well in a UK General Election to actually achieve the goal. If you, like me, are totally unaware of what 8/10 of your European represetatives have ever done and also believe that the denial of a referendum on the fudged treaty /constitution was blatently wrong, then a protest vote is the only way to go. Just one more question. What happens to limited companies that fail to submit audited accounts every year?

Re: European Elections - Mike Grimes (20th May 2009 - 09:49:42) Pro European Unionists have always used the argument that the only alternative to ever closer integration is to pull out altogether with disasterous results. What most people want is the benefits of free trade, free labour movement etc. that was promised when we joined the EU without the loss of freedom/Sovereignty that wasn't. And, John, I'm not keen on referendums where the will of the majority is likely to differ from mine either.

Re: European Elections - Eneida (20th May 2009 - 10:56:59) Beautifully put Mike!! "The benefits of free trade" was what I signed up to...not sure about free labour movement, though....seems a bit one way to me, but as Dawn pointed out, that may be to do with language problems. Mr Lush could you explain what these "dipomatic consequences which don't bear thinking about" would be? My bendy banana brain is quite puzzled by that comment!! Eneida

Re: European Elections - Beth Marr (20th May 2009 - 17:55:54) To date, the only electioneering information that I've received is from the BNP, UKIP and the Greens. Is there some reason that Labour, Conservatives and Lib Dems have neglected to contact their public about policies and future plans? Keeping their heads down by any chance? Beth

Re: European Elections - Allan (21st May 2009 - 01:29:05) Hi John, I have fairly mixed views on the EU as it exists at this moment. I can see the benefits of a union of nation states acting as one entity within the global village, being able to talk to the super-powers on an equal basis and being able to negotiate or demand that they listen to and cooperate with international issues as we see them. The problem, of course, is that it does not work like that. The USA will continue doing what it wants to do without worrying too much about what we Europeans think (Kyoto, seems a good example). The emerging economies of asia will continue to emerge without a by-your-leave to the EU on environmental issues, and we will continue to import their cheap goods. The British Gov will carry on being "good" Europeans,slavishly enforcing every law and diktat that comes our way when France, Italy, Germany and the rest are selective on which directives they wish to adopt. The expense of membership in terms of finance seems disproportionate to the benefits we receive is a commonly held view. Bet you can't quantify any of those benefits in any terms. Finally,'cos it's late, the fact is that most people in the UK do not want to be forced into a constitutional arrangement unforeseen at the outset of this project, which will lead to ever greater dominance of our daily lives by unelected bureaucrats who may not have our best interest in the fore. With respect, Allan

Re: European Elections - Eneida (21st May 2009 - 11:45:12) Hi Beth :) We did receive a leaflet from the Conservatives this morning...well when I say 'we' it was actually addressed SOLELY to my husband...not a good move!! So, as you can imagine, I've now definitely made up my mind where my vote is going. Eneida

Re: European Elections - Mike Grimes (21st May 2009 - 19:41:51) "Ours" arrived addressed only to Mrs Grimes so it may be that we'll get one each. I suspect that you've already told Mr Nelson how he's to vote though.

Re: European Elections - Eneida (22nd May 2009 - 11:35:30) Mike, I wouldn't dream of 'telling' my husband how to vote...only a very bossy person indeed, would behave like that ;) Of course, I do make suggestions, but poor Mr Nelson has been afflicted by selective deafness ever since I've known him.....

Reply to THIS thread
Talkback Home