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Delicious - Allan (10th May 2009 - 01:01:50) It is, it really is. You could not make this story up. Members of parliament have been exposed by the Telegraph for claiming millions of pounds at the tax payers expense, sometimes clearly fraudulently. And they have called in the police. Why? Is it to investigate the scale of the robbery of the public purse; is it to pursue the fact that M.P.'s of ALL parties (with some notable exceptions ) have been enriching themselves because they can? No, the police have been called in to investigate who might be responsible for disclosing the facts to the Telegraph!

Re: Delicious - Helen (10th May 2009 - 17:47:15) We can all go mad about this but the press (especially the Telegraph) are happily rubbing their hands and making lots of money on the back of this scandal...which has to be just as bad! Politicians have a very tough job to do and I think that envy plays a part here...if the shoe was on the other foot and a rubbish system ripe for abuse was in place...would you do the same?? Shame on me but I know I would! They can have my money for gardeners, washing machines and dirty films for all I care...it is the lazy arse people who work and claim benefits that I begrudge.

Re: Delicious - Paul Robinson (10th May 2009 - 20:27:51) On the contrary. While some of us may have suspected that there was fiddling going on I am sure that until the Daily Torygraph published their analysis of MP's expenses none of [us] had any idea of the scale of the corruption. In my opinion this exposure is in the public interest and was fully justified. I am reminded of Harold Evans and his team at the Sunday Times who uncovered the Thalidomide scandal and the pittance that Distillers were offering the families who had suffered as a result of the drug's affect on new born babies. I trust the press will continue to uncover this sort of dishonesty within the rest of the political parties. Clearly a system that allows a cabinet minister to describe one property as her private home and thus avoid paying capital gaines tax whilst at the same time describing the same property as a second home and claim expenses is nothing short of scandalous. I have known people who have been fired from the private sector for less. Paul Robinson

Re: Delicious - Nick (11th May 2009 - 07:38:38) Helen Your response to the systematic milking of a "rubbish system", a system set up by its abusers, is puzzling. You condemm benefit scroungers and miss the bigger picture whilst admitting you would exploit a system that let you get away with it. The Press has a perfect right to exist and they are absolutely correct to expose this shameless manipulation of our money. They will make a few quid over a few days or a week or so. SO WHAT? These MPs have been supplementing their salaries for years by the very claims you are happy to accept and shrug off. I don't for a moment believe the Press are all angels and, barring a few very experienced and seemingly trustworthy Parliamentary correspondents, they are often as unprincipled when going about their business as some of the MPs themselves. This isn't to do with them however. Speaking personally I experience no envy when this type of thing surfaces. Politicians do have a tough job but nobody asks them to stand for Parliament. They start off with great intentions but a number of them, faced with moral choices that should be obvious to them wander further and further from the straight and narrow. When you become an MP you should not lose sight of the reason you are elected - to represent your constituency not to rip them off. They complain of not being paid enough - a great many of them are not good enough to be paid the going rate now let alone more. These are the real "lazy arsed" people want something for nothing, want no one to know about it and run scared when we do find out. They are supposed to be worthy of our trust. I wouldn't trust some of them to go to the bar for a round of drinks without claiming travel expenses and wear and tear on their shoes.

Re: Delicious - Chris (11th May 2009 - 08:18:34) Aside from the near fraudulent nature of the claims it is the sheer scale of penny-pinching greed that astonishes me!

Re: Delicious - Eneida (11th May 2009 - 09:36:08) Definition of a Banana Republic:- "A country governed by a small, rich and corrupt clique that imposes its will arbitrarily and crudely on the powerless majority." Sounds familiar doesn't it? So if we're now a fully fledged member and we're not happy about it....what do you think we should do next???? I know what the traditional answer would be...but then again this is Britain so we'll probably just put up with it, as usual.

Re: Delicious - Sumi Olson (11th May 2009 - 14:32:08) "I have to have a proper family life and I can't do that unless I share the costs of the Southampton home with him." I wonder if in claiming her Southampton house as a second home Ms Moran is aware she's inadvertently suggesting a revolution in employer and employee relations...? It's apparently now the employer’s responsibility to financially sponsor their staffs' personal lives by ensuring that said employees should enjoy suitable succour and support from their loved ones regardless of [where] they live and work. Bless. In the real world, if a person chooses to work in a different location to where their main family home is based (and often, to pay the bills, it's not a willing choice by any means), they do not expect the employer to subsidise the upkeep and household expenses of the family home! Before we married, our jobs kept my husband & I in separate cities – I realise now that we ought to claimed financial support from our employers to help us maintain our long distance relationship. It would have made us so much both happier and thus better able to do our jobs. When I think of my years of filling in expense forms for employers and being aware of every penny I claimed, it's pathetic to see the mind-set of these politicians who think nothing to claim 88p bathplugs, sanitary protection, high-priced electrical goods, cleaners, and so on. And our own Chancellor skiving out of stamp duty... When the "court of public opinion" apparently encouraged this same govt to ask Fred Goodwin to pay back his repugnant but still legally binding pensions contract, or when our Chancellor's Treasury continues to apply retrospective taxation and penalties, I think it's absolutely reasonable to ask MPs to pay back these bogus claims out of the profits they've made in selling houses in a rising market. Hazel Blears - it's not the system as much as your exploiting of the system I hate! I must be careful listening to these reports, I get so dammed annoyed it might just set off my labour...

Re: Delicious - benard bayly (11th May 2009 - 15:21:56) The basic unanswered point by MPs is that although the system for expenses' payment exists there is no compunction on anyone to claim morally indefensible sums based on a so called "right"

Re: Delicious - Finchie (11th May 2009 - 15:46:37) Allan - Poor choice of subject title "Delicious". Our own MP, James Arbuthnott will probably miss it (or maybe not, as I was pretty curious !!!). James - I note you were a creditable 333rd in the expense rankings last year - just making the bottom half. So a credit to you. Although it is not the "How Much ?" that is important - it is also the "What On ?" For the sake of full disclosure, anything you want to confess to now before the press drill down even further :-) Pencils, sharpener, rubbers, rulers etc. all OK. Plugs, Porn etc - Very Bad ! I have total confidence. Cheers, Finchie PS I would be curious who you employ to monitor websites like this and alert you to anything that needs a response ? (Don't answer as this puts you in a no-win situation which you will never dig yourself out of !!! Because if you do it yourself have far too much time on your hands !!! If you employ someone to do it .... That's why you do your job and I do mine !!!

Re: Delicious - Steve Read (11th May 2009 - 19:01:05) I see the darling Tories are going through the mincer today, great stuff, can't wait for the next lot. As Allan stated in his first post, its all parties. What makes me laugh is seeing Brown & Cameron coming out today and saying they need to restore our confidence and trust in their so called 'Honourable' members. Pathetic really, lets face facts, as I stated on here a few years ago MP's are only in it for themselves and their sole intention is to get their noses as far into the trough as far as they can for as long as they can. End of! So they come out today in force and start apologising for the error of their ways, BULL~~~T you were caught now pay the price, as Paul stated anywhere else (in the real world) you would be down the road, will this happen? yeah right it will! The ranks will close up, all defending one another and at the end of it convincing themselves that they played within the rules. It will all blow over, people forget and then vote the next bunch of clowns in. The sad point being is that we are being taken for fools and we know it and are quite happy to go along with it!

Re: Delicious - Allan (12th May 2009 - 01:05:27) Helen, I read your post with interest. I guess a large no of people would join you in the So What lobby; but consider this; there is an even bigger gravy train running unchecked and loosely regulated the length and breadth of Europe. Elected MEP's are steeped in a culture of lavish benefits that bring a sinister connotation to the welfare of the constituencies they are elected to represent. If, hypothetically speaking, a groundswell of public opinion blurgeoned to demand that the United Kingdom withdraw it's membership of the E.U. would those elected be reluctant to put personal interests behind them and acquiesce for the benefit of G.B., or would they be reluctant through self interest to represent the majority view

Re: Delicious (but with sour after taste) - Mike Grimes (12th May 2009 - 01:09:56) So Steve. Who would you have govern us then?

Re: Delicious - Rhys G (12th May 2009 - 08:08:18) From the Telegraph site today: "James Arbuthnot, the Conservative chairman of the defence select committee, announced last night that he would be repaying money he had claimed from the taxpayer to clean his swimming pool. This was among a series of payments made to maintain a country residence he rented before buying a £2 million home without a mortgage in 2007." www.telegraph.co.uk/news.. Glad to see our MP wasn't missing out on his chances, though it does seem he has agreed to repay his swimming pool cleaning charges! What a nice chap.

Re: Delicious - Katy Clarke (12th May 2009 - 08:31:16) I am looking forwards to a dip in Mr Arbuthnot's swimming pool. After all if Liphook doesn't have a public one why can't we use his if it is being paid for out of the public purse? Looking forward to the invite to the pool party soon James, just pop it in the post!

Re: Delicious - Chris (12th May 2009 - 08:48:33) Referring to Allan's post we would all have to vote UKIP to see that happen as they are the only ones advocating withdrawal and only if enough UKIP MEPs are voted in would the UK's withdrawal from the EEC begin. 'Fraid we had our chance way back in Heath's time and another referendum is highly unlikely. The EEC we're stuck with but corrupt MPs and MEPs we are not! I hope that the wave of revulsion that our domestic situation has caused will reverberate loudly throughout the even more corrupt European Parliament because a cleaning up of that vile cesspool is long overdue!

Re: Delicious - Sue W (12th May 2009 - 09:45:03) I don’t suppose that all members of parliament set out to 'rob us rotten', but when you are swimming amongst the greedy sharks - doing the same job a you - making so much more money - you would be very enticed to join in! My question is, Who is passing these expenses? I know from experience that generally people (ie reps), claim for many things during their working life, but most companies vet the claims in detail. Astute companies will only allow credible claims. If some of these unsavoury and illegal claims have been passed, what incentives did those processing them receive? And what expenses could they claim? This could be an even bigger black hole for taxpayer’s money!

Re: Delicious - Dawn Hoskins (12th May 2009 - 12:55:13) I wonder if they are thinking of repaying just this year's immoral claims, or if they are going to be back dated so the public purse can be fully reimbursed for all past travesties. In any other profession – being caught with your hand in the till would be an automatic sacking offence for gross misconduct. In this case it is even worse as they have been stealing from US!

Re: Delicious - Alan Baker (12th May 2009 - 13:12:41) Good point Dawn The tax man can go back 6 years, I believe, so I guess that they should all do the right thing and pay back 6 years worth of overclaimed expenses. Now, do you know any bankers they could get the loans they will need from ? Alan

Re: Delicious - Scot (12th May 2009 - 13:45:39) Good point Katy, I'll come along to one of the public swim sessions. I'm sure the expenses can stretch to a BBQ also.

Re: Delicious - Mike Grimes (12th May 2009 - 14:31:35) When Gordon said yesterday "I want to apologise on behalf of politicians on behalf of all parties for what has happened in the events of the last few days". It struck me that he was, perhaps, sorry that the details had been published (in the last few days) rather than for the systematic milking that had been going on for rather longer. Yes, I'm working at my primary residence today Allan.

Re: Delicious - Phil (12th May 2009 - 23:09:00) From the BBC News website this evening: "The newspaper also said North East Hampshire MP James Arbuthnot, chairman of the Commons defence select committee, had claimed £1,471 for garden and swimming pool costs. He has agreed to repay the swimming pool expenses." Well as it's tax-payers money (i.e. you and I) and we all live locally, James before you repay our money can we pop around for a dip? Next Sunday would be convenient for the kids, thanks.

Re: Delicious - Phil (12th May 2009 - 23:16:22) Oh - as I'm bored and can't sleep ... an addendum .. ! Tory expenses seem to encompass hedge-cutting around helipads, swimming pools in sprawling country mansions, plumbing under tennis courts. Labour expenses include dog food, chunky Kit Kats and porn. Fascinating!

Re: Delicious - Allan (13th May 2009 - 01:51:40) Well, see, Following on from today's revelations regarding Our Local Hero, what is one supposed to think in terms of who to vote for on June 4? It is,I suppose, akin to being told that your parentage is not what you thought. Personally, I could not bring myself to vote for any one ascribed to have diddled the ex's. This leaves me disenfranchised in the fact that I can no longer excercise my natural choice of whom I would wish to represent me at anything above Parish Council level. That is the scale of the damage. For the Euro elections, who is the candidate not tainted with this sleaze?. Could be the BNP. Are the consequenses of your greed, Mr Arbuthnutt, going to be that people will vote in any party but Labour, Conservative or Liberal

Re: Delicious - Sue w (13th May 2009 - 09:26:43) Allan Love your intended typo!! Sue

Re: Delicious - Chris (13th May 2009 - 11:28:59) As distasteful as the situation is if we applied the same principle in other walks of life we would, for example, never use another bank, never make another Pension investment, never ever watch another BBC or ITV TV program (phone-in scandles) etc, etc. Also, there are equally awful and recent instances of corruption that have been forgotten in the passage of time, not least of which being: 1. Members of the House of Lords taking "consultancy" fees for change of law lobbying. 2. Cash for questions. 3. Cash for honours. Not to mention past revalations about some extremely dubious private lives that have been put up for public scrutiny -Jeremy Thorpe, John Profumo...the list of political sleaze perpetrators is endless!!!!! I would be surprised if this expenses scandal hasn't touched our less well know political organisations but even if it hasn't whose going to be daft enough to vote BNP in a mainstream election just because their members' expense claims are less "quirky"?

Re: Delicious - Phil (13th May 2009 - 13:03:26) I suspect that there are 2 'new' differences to consider in comparing MP's use of expenses with those of bank officials, TV officials, etc. Namely, (1) MP's are our elected officials, working for us, often on a manifesto of principals and values in public life - the others are in the main hired directly by their employers, and (2) how can our elected leaders offer to steer a country / electorate / tax-base through turbulent economic times when they are otherwise occupied in getting tax-payers to fund their swimming-pool maintenance charges, toilet-seat repairs, tampons and porn?!

Re: Delicious - Steve Read (14th May 2009 - 18:50:49) Now they have started falling on their swords today. 2 down a few more hundred to go. That other 'democratic' establishment the House of Lords is producing scandals now, nothing new there then! In reply to Mike's question, to be honest Mike I have not got a clue but surely some form of criteria demanding strict codes of conduct written in plain english with no grey areas or loop holes available for these slippery slimey individuals to crawl through at our expense could be constructed. Would it not be refreshing for some individual to stand up and announce that he or she would start up a new party called the Common Sense Party. Then announce that they realise this country is in the mire big time, then by pulling the 'best' together instead of pulling towards their own aims all get stuck in and attempt to initiate a recovery for the benefit of everyone. (ok I can dream). On the news tonight it was revealed the last time the House burnt down, people lined the Thames on the other side and cheered and clapped, bet this time around everyone would be stood there with a petrol can (if they could afford it). Just out of curiousity what would happen if nobody voted at the next general election? Anybody know. I would have asked our MP but he seems to be missing at the mo, probably doing a few lengths in the pool.

Re: Delicious - James Arbuthnot (14th May 2009 - 20:23:15) Finchie: Who monitors this website? I do. I have been staying away from it for the last couple of days because I didn't want to see what I thought I'd find on it. But I can't do so any more, and thought I should come on to apologise for my own part in a ghastly saga. My claims for the maintenance of the swimming pool at my constituency home were, as I should have known, wrong and unacceptable. The fact that such claims were accepted by the House of Commons authorities should not have blinded me to the impropriety of making them in the first place: the claims simply should never have been made. On Monday 11th May, I contacted the House of Commons authorities to work out exactly how much the claims amounted to and I repaid the amount in full immediately. I also asked the Chief Whip that I might be the first to have my entire expense claims for the past four years subjected to scrutiny by an independent panel to ensure that they are both within the guidelines and the spirit of House of Commons advice and what my constituents would expect. He agreed to this. I am not going to hide behind excuses about the whole allowance system for Members of Parliament and the way it has operated, because to do so would be seeking to transfer the blame for something for which I must take responsibility. But I am well aware of what a privilege it is to serve the people of North East Hampshire as their Member of Parliament and I am acutely aware of the upset and anger that this entire episode has caused. Over the coming days and months, I shall do my utmost to work to regain the trust of those I am fortunate enough to represent. James

Re: Delicious - Mike Grimes (14th May 2009 - 23:40:19) Thankyou James.

Re: Delicious - Finchie (15th May 2009 - 00:05:13) Flipping gutted to read all about this James. You are a good guy, have been very supportive, and this is madness. Particularly as you clearly don't need the money. You have been a complete and utter donut. I can't even be flippant and say I would forgive you if you held weekly naked pool parties. I'd attend, but wouldn't forgive you (possibly change my mind, dependent on the quality of attendees). The only way I'll be able to forgive you is if you get a morning train departing at 7:00 am from Liphook to Waterloo. And I thought I was having a bad week. No Cheers from me today, Finchie

Re: Delicious - Allan (15th May 2009 - 01:26:28) So, Mr Arbuthnot, in your role as Conservative Chief Whip, you did not appreciate that you or any of your Parliamentary colleagues would be embarrassed if they were found to be fiddling the public purse. I assume that that role would have entailed enforcing discipline on matters of principal and honesty which may become subject to scrutiny by the press or others

Re: Delicious - Eneida (15th May 2009 - 09:32:35) Well James I won't pretend I'm not disappointed you got involved in all this corruption going on, because I am!! However, I've lived in many different parts of England and you're the best MP I've come across, so far, when it comes to supporting the local communities, so I'll still vote for you. And talking about General Elections....I think we should have one ASAP....Oct 8th this year would be good! Do you think you could arrange that ?? Eneida

Re: Delicious - Sue W (15th May 2009 - 11:12:00) Do you know what? I feel people within Liphook seem to get more heated and argumentative (and personal) over a person who was standing for a local parish seat (unpaid) because they parked in a Mother & Baby place!!! Mr Arbuthnot, posts a massive portion of humble pie and he is thanked for it, mildly and politely told off, and even by some forgiven for joining in. I cannot understand at all how MP's can even remotely think, that claiming for cleaning pools and under court heating is in any way a necessary expense incurred in performing duties that the electorate expect. I suggest that the next time anyone has a VAT inspection or and investigation by the Inland revenue that if any errors are found - come out with similar lines that those above use and you will get away with it. Get real - ignorance or a lack of understanding is not accepted as a valid reason, and you will face heavy fines and penalties, which could even land you in prison! One rule for some another for us (who makes these rules!?)

Re: Delicious - Nick (15th May 2009 - 13:29:20) Sue You are absolutely right. At what point is it ok to forgive somebody, Eneida, and what is the level above which expenses claims cannot go? Taking something to which you are not entitled does not involve degrees of guilt. You either do it and expect to get away with it or you don't do it. Staggering how all those rumbled have made "mistakes" I would be disappointed if James Arbuthnot and all the others managed to regain the trust they have thrown away to the extent that they continued to represent thieir constituencies after the general election either in government or in opposition. They know that apologising and repaying taxpayers money doesn't cut it. For all of those who have committed social and political suicide there should be no way back. James Arbuthnot will be remembered by most of his constituents and the rest of the country for the remainder of his time at Westminster as the MP who cleaned his swimming pool at our expense. This should be a source of deep regret to him because there have undoubtedly been political achievements of which he was rightly proud. Probably only he will remember what they were now though ......... If people continue to kowtow to people capable of such, to put it kindly, slack accounting and lax judgement, then we will continue to get the politicians we deserve. It is time for an election which will begin to clear out the tired, sorry and discredited array of opportunists that we are funding and to replace them with anybody with a bit of integrity.

Re: Delicious - Karen F (15th May 2009 - 15:17:42) Dear Mr Arbuthnot Perhaps we would start voting for you again if you donated some expenses to us for a worthy cause (not cleaning our pool or moat - my moat is quite clean at the moment). We have a superb annual Carnival and Fun Day which unites our community every year and we would love to welcome you to either event (always looking for someone to crown our queen) and with the credit crunch, our poor old funds this year are running low. You would get my vote back again!! Karen F Mrs Carnival/Fun Day - she who seems to talk of nothing else..

Re: Delicious - Eneida (15th May 2009 - 15:38:06) Nick, I'm not going to get into any sort of pointless argument with you defending James Arbuthnot's behaviour...and in fact, I'm not defending it! I prefer to take the realistic view that none of us are perfect, including me, you and obviously, politicians. So all I'm saying is that, in my opinion, weighing up his past positives, as our MP, against this one negative (as long as nothing worse is revealed) he will get my support at the next General Election. As I've said before, I think this should be ASAP...then you can all make up your own minds. Eneida

Re: Delicious - Sharon (15th May 2009 - 17:19:49) James, I hope your pool is heated as well as spotless because I've joined weightwatchers, bought myself a rather fetching bathing suit (still have the receipt) and am looking forward immensely to a pleasant afternoon poolside followed by some early evening cocktails before dinner at Arbuthnot Acres. Saturday would be good for me; perhaps you could post directions on your website so that we may arrive in good time for the afternoon's relaxation. Don't know about you but I've had a hell of a week. I will arrive on my JCB so that, if we get time, we can make a start on your moat. I find it scandalous that you, as our MP, are so far behind the rest of the chaps. Should you not fancy that you could perhaps use it to dig yourself out of the teensy weensy chasm you have already dug for yourself.

Re: Delicious - Mike Grimes (15th May 2009 - 17:23:42) None of us is perfect, Eneida.

Re: Delicious - Steve Read (15th May 2009 - 17:49:32) Its not about being perfect its about being honourable and they luv using that in their own descriptions. Let me put it this way, Karen with her worthy efforts for the carnival raises a few quid and gives it to me to pay in the bank, on the way I decide to help myself to a tenner. Would you invite me back next year to pay it in? I think not! Everybody is calling it a scandal, I call it theft! I would say the question of being honourable in my eyes is for each and everyone who have been caught with their hands in the cookie jar, resigns from their position. Why go back 4 years, lets get right into the whole debacle and get a total figure. A complete audit of every single penny paid out since Thatcher brought in the current scam. Watch them all run cover on that one. As for our MP saying he will be working for the next few days, or months to rebuild his reputation and confidence with us the electorate, here's some news my friend it will take a damn site longer than that, even if you manage it at all. By the way some of the replies on here are going you can already see the pattern developing, never mind James, thanks for coming clean, there's a good bloke. Pity you never had the gumption or the intelligence to stand up and declare or question these payments a long time ago, then you might have come out of this sorry mess with a resemblance of credibility.

Re: Delicious - Rhys G (15th May 2009 - 18:36:36) I think we need to form an orderly queue for the swimming pool, Wikipedia tells me there is approximately 111,000 people living in East Hants. If Sharon has booked Saturday, can I come for a dip sometime Sunday, James? Looking forward to hearing from you soon.

Re: Delicious - Allan (15th May 2009 - 18:39:02) It appears that a number of people have reported the fraudulent behaviour of some M.P's to The Metropolitain police. Charges are sure to follow in the worst cases. What next, though? Parliament has been discredited beyond repair and it is absurd that to believe that business can still be "as usual". Government is a busted flush without moral authority and the country will surely suffer further as a result. It is also clear that there are m.p's whose reputations are unsullied. Let the full details of all expense claims be published now and audited by independent auditors, reveal who did not fiddle their exes and allow Her Maj. to exercise the Royal Prerogative, suspend parliament and force the P.M. to call an election where the people of this country can replace all the rotten eggs in one fell swoop. Wouldn't have been necessary in the old days, of course, a bottle of whisky and an old service revolver would have been the chosen resignation of those so publicly exposed and humiliated

Re: Delicious - Owen (15th May 2009 - 22:01:53) Bottle of whiskey and a service revolver? Chances are they'd find a way to claim for the bullets.

Re: Delicious - Bill Ratcliffe (15th May 2009 - 22:55:44) I notice from the local press that our MP has claimed over £100,000 in second home expenses. Tens of thousands of people commute into London every day using the excellent rail service. Why can't our local MP do the same? How can he justify claiming such a huge some of money for an unneccesay 2nd home?

Re: Delicious - Mike Grimes (15th May 2009 - 23:36:02) I have this horrible feeling that, in spite of telling us that we must retain tax/VAT records for at least seven years, records of MP's expenses may not survive an MP's resignation or the dissolution of the house. So, Anthony Charles Lynton's receipts have probably already been shredded and this would explain why Davids Cameron's promised audit will only go back four years. I hope HRH the Queen reads this website. Do the honourable thing Ma'am.

Re: Delicious - Mike Grimes (16th May 2009 - 01:34:28) Allan, I think that your use of the term 'Busted Flush' may be wrong. The accepted definition implies a marvelous opportunity that fails to be realised but you used the expression to describe [this] Government. Unless, of course, you were referring to the expenses claim for John Prescott's toilet.

Re: Delicious - Chris (16th May 2009 - 07:20:52) The fact that so many MPs have been doing the very same thing leaves those who are left with managing the situation with a dilemma. Let's face it, you cannot sack every MP that has put in an expense claim that defies the public interpretation of the rules because you would have a virtually empty Parliament. You may also have many costly, long, drawn-out legal battles involving the majority that were, in their opinion, working within the rules. Most institutions, both private and public, have a disciplinary procedure that involves varying levels of punishment. Apply this on this mass scale and you have at worst a lot of written warning being sent! Those that have blatantly robbed the public purse (the mortgage payment fiddlers that committed premeditated acts of extortion) should be punished severely as examples. But for the rest, given that the problem is clearly with the ambiguous wording of the rules and the very vague and lax vetting and control procedures, it is going to be extremely difficult to establish the dividing line between an abuse of privilege that constitutes a sacking offence and one that falls short. Add to this the fact that most MPs, James included, do a good job; their employers will be reluctant to remove them from office and will look for and find every excuse not to do so. No-one has offered the newspapers information about the sort of expense claims that are being submitted and passed at the lower echelons of publicly funded institutional life, Local Councils, the NHS, the Civil Service, the Army etc. etc. Set the punishment levels too high at the very highest level and you would have to follow this up with a similar carnage scenario at those levels too!

Re: Delicious - Paul Robinson (16th May 2009 - 09:21:46) Having listened and read the reports on this whole can of worms this week I am intrigued by the semantics used when describing the actions of individuals and their political backgrounds. When describing members of the labour party the words thief, rogue, disgraceful, scandalous were invoked. When applied to to the tories they were described as 'the squirearchy' and dishonorable. Is it me . . . Oh, and by the way, do not think that our parish council is entirely without its problems. I seem to recall that one or two councillors are currently investigating a sum of money which was made without authority and are invoking the freedom of information act in order to trace this matter. If and when this is resolved it will put unauthorised mother and baby parking in the ha'penny place. Paul Robinson

Re: Delicious - Robert Douglas (16th May 2009 - 12:30:17) Let's not let the swimming pool bit blind us to the fact that JA has also claimed £108,062 over five years for a second home somewhere. Why? Obviously, occasionally he'd have to stay in London after a heavy dinner. But is he not aware that most of his constituents earn less than he's claimed just for his second home? Is he not aware that the last Portsmouth Harbour train leaves Waterloo at 1145pm (that's the one his constituents catch when they have to work very late in town)? Is he not aware that the first train gets into London well before any MP has ever needed to be at work? The real problem is that MPs in general, our MP no exception, have become totally out of touch with real word in which most of us live. Note how they all kept thinking they'd get away with it until they found their names in the newspaper - still hoping they wouldn't get caught out. They've as a result totally undermined their credibility. Lovely letter in the Times the other day: "the recent exposures have lowered the depth of the trough: now let's reduce the number of pigs". Couldn't agree more. Robert

Re: Delicious - roy mountford (16th May 2009 - 19:00:10) Did any of you receive a personal apology from James? I did. It would be deeply touching if it is not (as I suspect) a generic response he might have sent to all constituents. If he thinks I will vote for him in future he really is out of touch with the real world!

Re: Delicious - Allan (17th May 2009 - 00:46:48) Bill, They cannot possibly justify to us the illegallity of their behaviour, but they will keep on trying to. Malik, Beckett; totally without any form of shame or remorse! Guy Faulkes knew what the score was!!!

Re: Delicious - Paul Robinson (17th May 2009 - 10:19:40) A thought has just occurred to me. Many of our previously esteemed Members of Parliament hold directorships in the private sector. Of course that was until recently when an MP's name on the headed notepaper meant something! Would these directorships come with an expense account and, if so, would they be quite so creative in submitting their claims as they have been when dipping into tax payer's money? I think we should be told Paul Robinson

Re: Delicious - Paul Robinson (19th May 2009 - 12:44:40) History has a grave habit of repeating itself . . . Oliver Cromwell Speech - Dissolution of the Long Parliament Dissolution of the Long Parliament by Oliver Cromwell given to the House of Commons, 20 April 1653 It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonored by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice; ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government; ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money. Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess? Ye have no more religion than my horse; gold is your God; which of you have not barter'd your conscience for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth? Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defil'd this sacred place, and turn'd the Lord's temple into a den of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress'd, are yourselves gone! So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors. In the name of God, go!

Re: Delicious - Allan, (19th May 2009 - 16:14:02) Nice one, Paul. Fergus Shanahan said something similar in that erstwhile organ of democracy and fearless enemy of corruption, The Sun, today. But I wager that Cromwell's diatribe didn't have a photograph of Jordan with her thrupennies hanging out beside it. Somehow the message isn't the same!

Re: Delicious - Scot (20th May 2009 - 14:10:26) It's official, we can all go for a dip in the pool ! newsbiscuit.com/2009/...

Re: Delicious - Alan Baker (23rd May 2009 - 15:36:04) It's a shame the MP's don't follow these simple rules seen on a sign in Kalimpong (India) by my stepdaughter a few weeks ago.

Re: Delicious - Steve Read (29th May 2009 - 22:51:54) Been away for a while but still been keeping an eye on the recent developments regarding the trough feeders. Call me slow, but I was wondering why the ones who have gone kicking and screaming were hanging on to the next general election. I see now they will recieve approx £100,000 for want of a better word 'severance pay' plus their ludicrous pensions. Good work if you can get it, caught fiddling, scamming and thieving and still get paid off. No wonder they didn't shout too loud about the bankers.

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