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Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Kev (27th Mar 2009 - 17:50:23) I know it sounds like we are all just moaning about everything at the moment, but I am going to proceed with this whinge anyway!! It gets me so annoyed when people use the Mother and Baby Parking facilities at Sainsburys when they clearly haven't got a baby or even a small child for that matter. I feel guilty using the parking spaces and I have a four year old. Tonight I witnessed a lady drive straight into a space, no kids, no car seats, no thought for the fact that at any time somebody who really needed the space (ie with a baby, toddler, pushchair, car seat or whatever else) might come along . Very thoughtless in my opinion. I know who you are so I will be interested to see if you 'talkback'.........

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Dawn Hoskins (27th Mar 2009 - 18:04:58) Gosh, I can't do anything right today!! Popped in for eggs and Milk. 5:15pm. Parent and child car park was empty. I did worry about it - but only for a millisecond due to completely empty car park and very little risk of tsunami of young toddlers arriving when they would either be sitting in their highchairs or their bath. When I cam out 5 minutes later, parent and child car park was still empty. I suppose that putting my photo on the site along with my manifesto for by-election is going to lead to criticisms of this nature. In this instance, I weighed up the situation and made my choice. No one was inconvenienced – except ‘Kev’ that is! So along with this and offering to help out with maths lessons I must be growing horns!!

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Sarah (27th Mar 2009 - 18:18:38) Hello Oh my goodness, you're going to get so many replies about this!! I completely agree and have a rant about it on a daily basis (two small children to contend with). Recently I was verbally abused in front of my children by a man who parked next to me with no children, simply because I stared at him. People don't seem to realise that the spots are there for safety, but also because it can be very hard to lift a child into a car seat if you can't fully open the door, as is the case in the normal spaces. Thank you for starting off this rant!

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Sarah (27th Mar 2009 - 20:31:49) I have to say further to my previous post and the post of the so-called 'guilty-party', I don't mind at all if it's 'out of hours' so to speak. It's fair enough in the evening when it's common sense that there won't be many babies and little children out and about and the whole space is pretty much sitting there empty. I do feel cheated out of my rant a bit now!!

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Kev (27th Mar 2009 - 21:09:02) Dawn, Do you take the same stance with Disabled Parking Spaces?

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Barry Hope (28th Mar 2009 - 00:24:45) I have recently written to Sainsbury’s about the misuse of disabled bays and they say they regularly check the use of the spaces. I don't think they monitor them (disabled and mothers & toddlers spaces) regularly enough as quite often in the evenings the spaces are used by cars that seem to be there for the night which leads me to suspect that the twilight shift are using them. I will be writing again if they do not treat this seriously as I know that disabled people do appreciate having close access to the entrance.

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Sumi Olson (28th Mar 2009 - 10:28:18) Perhaps it's just me but I don't use disabled spaces or (before being heavily pregnant and having a young child already)family spaces, whatever time of the day/night because if I don't meet the criteria then I just don't meet the criteria... I can't predict whether or not someone is going to need the space so don't take the chance. If everyone assumed that they were able to use specially allocated spaces at apparent "off peak periods", there wouldn't be any spaces left at all. I've a younger sister who has to use a disabled badge and she uses her car whenever she needs wants, day or night and if I needed to go somewhere for an emergency and had no choice but take my child(ren) with me (being a parent there's no such thing as "just popping in" to the shops or anywhere else anymore), I'd be counting on being able to use the assigned designated space. I suppose, my personal experience with my sister and since becoming a parent has given me an appreciation of how access matters. Like you Sarah, trying to get a child in or out of a car-seat is hard enough without enough space - being pregnant it's almost impossible at times! Dawn, I'll still vote for you at the by-elections but... please don't do it again! ;)

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Dawn Hoskins (28th Mar 2009 - 11:57:03) Hi I fully appreciate how difficult it is to manoeuvre car seats, prams and all the paraphernalia associated with young children. I had three children under five. However, no parent in their right mind would be getting their toddlers / babies out of bed to take them to the supermarket surely? Even Kev, [who posted originally] can testify that there was no one in sight of those bays before, during and probably after my milk and eggs were being gobbled up by my hungry hordes. As night time use has only a negligible chance of ever inconveniencing a parent and child; [due to babies not being prone to ‘late night /post bath time’ shopping trips], then clearly, these spaces do not come within the same category as disabled spaces which are in constant use. I would never advocate parking in a disabled bay – at any time.

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Sumi Olson (28th Mar 2009 - 15:17:15) Hi Dawn Hear what you're saying about the night time and availablity of spaces but still hold to my view about designated spaces in general (ie if one isn't in the bracket it's reserved for, then don't use it) and anyway at that time of night, it's not usually a problem to park in the ordinary bays either. So we'll agree to disagree... Anyway, what I realised I didin't say in my other post was I appreciated you coming in straight away and acknowledging that it had been you to whom Kev was referring. Others might not have been as willing to concede this and I thought it a point in your favour. BTW- I'm stopping at two kids under two - I'll have to pick your brains one day one day to see how you've coped with three so close together! Cheers Sumi

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - claire (28th Mar 2009 - 15:43:07) well, at least if a car is safely parked in a bay it is not mounting kerbs (please note: my tongue was firmly in my cheek when i typed the above)

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Sumi Olson (28th Mar 2009 - 15:52:55) Oh Claire, That's for another thread!! :)

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Kev (28th Mar 2009 - 16:46:37) Just to set the record straight, other Mother and Baby parking spaces were in use! I was in one of them and I did make a point to look to see how busy the others were. A designated space is just that however quiet the car park might be. I am always surprised at the number of babies I see in Sainsburys of an evening so I know they must get used. Sorry, just really don't think you have a leg to stand on - or a space to park in.....

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Paul Rochford (29th Mar 2009 - 00:04:27) Dawn, as your actions and commentary on this thread show you as someone with a flagrant disregard for rules and regulations on matters as basic as purposely taking up parking spaces for designated groups that you did not belong to at the time, I suspect you should not be let near a Parish Council that oversees many rules and regulations for the area. I hope this doesn't affect your outcome in the Parish Council election, now that people are aware you are willing to take up a Parent & Child parking space for your own convenience, and to hell with those who might need the space. Who knows what else you get up to, 'when no-one is looking' - or more correctly, when you thought no-one was looking?

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Sue W (29th Mar 2009 - 10:31:37) Disabled spaces should always be left available - as should M & B spots. BUT How often do you see cars parked with Disabled badges in windows - not having a disabled person being transported on that day? This is an abuse of a permit! It sends out the wrong messages - if they can do it and seen doing it - others will follow!

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Sue W (29th Mar 2009 - 17:13:37) Paul Perhaps you should check the 'current or past PC' to see if they have any such tendancies to 'break' the rules of society - even down to dropping litter, etc. I am sure somewhere everyone has done something they shouldnt - and indeed I know of one that committed a very serious offence, and still remained on the council!!

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Dawn Hoskins (29th Mar 2009 - 18:26:01) Are you Havering Councillor Paul Rochford ? Just so I can put a face to the name.............

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Dawn Hoskins (29th Mar 2009 - 18:53:32) OK – this has got to ridiculous levels of silliness. I wouldn’t mind if this was actually a serious thread about parking in Sainsburys – but this is just a pre-election attempt to jump on candidates to make them look stupid. So – this will be my final word on the matter. Paul Rochford There is no correlation to be found between making a decision that spaces will be sitting empty / and acting with a flagrant disregard for rules and regulations. I did not at anytime think - to hell with those who might need the space - and for you to suggest such is merely a laughable attempt to besmirch my character. People are more clever than you give them credit for, they see this for what it is, and quite frankly by voicing such a ridiculous parallel you achieve the ‘own goal’ of completely tarnishing your argument. Further, to suggest that because I parked within a line of empty bays – which were empty before I arrived and still empty afterwards - that I must be some sort of deviant behind closed doors is so laughable that it doesn’t even warrant a response. It would be very interesting to see whom you are affiliated to………… Go on – spill the beans!!!!

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Sue W (29th Mar 2009 - 18:54:34) Likewise - Or a 'Kev'?

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Paul Rochford (29th Mar 2009 - 20:35:46) I am not affiliated with anyone?!

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Paul Rochford (29th Mar 2009 - 20:40:42) Ah, I see what you mean - Havering! You had me there for a moment. You obviously felt the need to Google my name ... ? Not me I'm afraid, nor am I am the mountaineer Paul Rochford. I am simply Paul Rochford, thanks all the same, with no affiliations and I do not park in the Mother & Baby spaces at Sainsbury's when no-one is looking, before you ask!!

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Kev (29th Mar 2009 - 20:51:05) Dawn/Sue W There was no hidden agenda on my part, just the fact that I was really annoyed about this subject. When things annoy you other talkbackers, you are all swift to jump onto your keyboards and air your thoughts. So why can't I? I said my piece, and now the matter is closed. I trust a few people might think more carefully about parking in these bays in future which was the only real aim of my posting. It was not to discredit anyone or question their suitability to take on a role within the parish council.

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Kev (29th Mar 2009 - 22:19:01) Dawn, it is not a pre-election dig or anything of the sort, merely an attempt to get the person that was seen in the M & B bays to own up... so well done for that. Why don't you just acknowledge that you shouldn't have taken the space and it would, with hindsight, have been wiser to park in an unallocated space; something that you will do in future. Then we can move on. Thanks in anticipation...

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Richard Robertson (30th Mar 2009 - 00:31:24) Slightly off subject but I assume that all mothers who read this thread and shop at Sainsbury's abide by the rules of not putting their children in the food area of the trolley. A small walk around Sainsbury's will prove that they will complain about their precious parking spaces but do not give a damn about contaminating the trolleys will their precious offsprings dirty shoes.

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Sue W (30th Mar 2009 - 08:52:54) I actually think that Parent and baby parking is in the wrong place in all carparks. When I had two, allocated places had not been thought of, and think that they offer an invaluable aid to people with small children. I always chose a quieter spot - which is NOT at the front of a shop. I had more control on the attention of the toddler, and there was less distraction, quick shunting cars, and a gaggle of shoppers, so I could take out child two with less worry. If the spaces were further away, people would be less likely to fill them up. I still park in the quietest places - yes it means a few extra steps, but makes the whole process much calmer, and is less of a hassle for me. Just a thought!

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking/Photos with posts - Sumi Olson (30th Mar 2009 - 14:57:52) Richard, Perhaps I'm reading your post incorrectly, but I get the impresssion I'm wrong to have defended the right to keep M&B places free for the people for whom they are allocated... You're absolutely right, to me they are very "precious" for the reasons I've already outlined. If you don't agree, that's completely fair enough (i've already agreed to disagree with Dawn's stance) but if your point is that you are unhappy with people who have children standing up in the trolleys, that's wholly a different matter and I can't see the link between the two issues. If you don't want to see people doing that (not just mothers but anyone who's in charge of the child), perhaps start another thread highlighting the unsanitary nature of the practice? I'm sure you'll get supporters (myself included) but please, why tar defenders of designated spaces with the same brush? I'm sorry that this topic and the photos with names posts have turned into something akin to side-taking if you are a friend/supporter or not of Dawn and I find the alleged pre-election machinations suggested somewhat bizarre. I know that emails and posts can sometimes appear more brusque and argumentative than the writers intend them to be but I agree with Kev - this site isn't the monopoly of a few regular people to let off steam only to find when a new person comes to bring in a discussion piece their motives and actions come under review as questionned in the photos with posts thread. I know I wasn't having a personal attack at Dawn as much as I disagree with her actions and I don't believe Kev was either - he's already explained why he put up his original post which seems unnecessary to me. I've enjoyed reading many a good discussion on this website and think it's a great source of information about what's happening in the community. However, I've already mentioned to the Editor that speaking to other Liphook residents I am told that they are put off from taking part in the talkback section because of the often personal level posts sink down to, as well as the fact it seems the usual suspects who are happy to air their views on all topics but not so happy when there's disagreement. I try to encourage these potential participants to take part anyway so we have a wider mix of voices on the site but can see their point...

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Darren Ellis (30th Mar 2009 - 17:49:30) Got to say I agree with "Sue W" ??? don't know you so no axe to grind/personal involvement. Mother and Baby spaces are a good idea but why oh why are they always so close to the store. Surely if they were in a quieter area of the car park they would be much safer for the "Mother and Baby" and no one would feel the need to park in them to save a few seconds? They seem to me to be a bit of a commercial excercise by supermarkets to entice mothers with children to shop there as they will be able to park close to the store and push a nice full trolley back to a closely parked the car............ or am I being cynical? Before anyone asks..... no I don't have kids so may be I'm just looking at it from a different view point?

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Sue W (30th Mar 2009 - 19:29:07) Sumi Did not wish to add anything further, but this is to respond to issues you raised No one has said that Kev did not have a valid point - or he and any one else should refrain from comments This post has question marks all over it - and what it seems to you is different to my opinion. But I think I should clarify some points for you. My comments were not done to be pally to anyone - I just hate to think that it was used to humiliate a person who was standing for election, which Kev would have known, which makes me ask why? Anytime he could have ranted about this - the timing stinks! As for the photo's - just wondered if Kev would have been willing to add his to the post or would he have thought twice - that’s all. Tried not to make it contentious – but other comments probably swayed your view to that! Kev had said he did not do it for those reasons - and we have to acknowledge that.

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Sarah (30th Mar 2009 - 19:54:37) I too would like to comment on Richard's post and take exception to the phrase 'they complain about their precious parking spaces' as though they are in some way a status symbol! The parking spaces are a big help to parents with children for the reasons already stated, but I will stress them again in case you really don't understand. The spaces provide room to open car doors fully so that a baby or infant can be lifted into a car seat and buckled in. They also mean that trolleys can be parked alongside the car for loading/unloading children rather than at the boot of the car and when you have more than one child to keep an eye in the steady traffic of Liphook car park and when the trolleys often have no break, this is a big help. I know that in the past supermarkets didn't have these spaces but they now have them for a reason - because parents expressed their concerns and asked for them. I too park in the quieter far corner of the car park when there are no parent spaces, simply because then I can get my doors open, but then have to leave my children on their own for a few minutes while I search for a trolley for two children, or, in the past, a toddler and baby trolley which are buried in the trolley park near to the parent parking! I will open up a can of worms and say that I am guilty on one or two occasions of letting my three year old ride in the trolley - this has been because I also have a baby and on occasions have been unable to reach a trolley with a baby seat and a small child seat - either because they are all in use, or because they are wedged behind rows of other trolleys. I have commented on this to Sainsburys. I apologise if you find this unhygienic and offensive, though my daughter has always done this without her shoes on and, I add before others criticise, she is always supervised. Sometimes this is the only way parents can get things done, and you will probably find that a small childs feet are much cleaner than the many pairs of hands gracing the supermarket trolleys, or the many bags slung inside supermarket trolleys. However, as the previous post stated, that is entirely another issue. I hope that people will cease to view parent and child parking places as some sort of smug parent status symbol and understand that they are simply a big help to parents looking after their children.

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Sue W (30th Mar 2009 - 22:09:59) I understand the problems of 'finding' a specific trolly which is at the front of the shops, because that is where the spaces are and most shoppers put regular trollies. Now if when talking to the store, you could suggest a trolly bay in corner perhaps where less people use it - apart from the suggested M & B spaces - the trollies should be mostly the ones you need?

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Kev (31st Mar 2009 - 08:37:17) In case you had not realised, this is not Westminster it is Liphook. There is no political agenda, I have no axe to grind, I do not wish to see Dawn's expenses for the past three months. I don't really care if Dawn is running for President, Local Council or as Chairperson of the WI. The principal of my first posting remains the same. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. Go and find something else to talk about now. There are a number of regular talkbackers who really do like to read things into things when they are genuinely NOT there. By the time you have finished prattling on about this subject and guessing my 'alternative motives' I will no longer need the parent parking spaces as my children will be at University. As always, the subject has run on too long and completely lost its original and only genuine intention. Don't park in someone else's space just because it is free.

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Lee (7th May 2009 - 04:36:06) People of Liphook, this is a national problem. I have the same thing happen on an all too frequent basis at Tesco's of Bordon. The major problem is the supermarkets are unwilling to 'police' their car parks in case they offend customers. Instead they rely on the good will of those who wish to shop there. So to those who are too lazy to park in the correct spaces, please carry on. I appreciate that you are too ignorant or stubborn to notice them. To those who require the extra space why not just park across the middle of two spaces? Let's face it if the supermarkets are unwilling to 'police' dedicated spaces then nobody will complain. Sure it's an inconvenience that you will be further away from the store entrance but once the supermarkets realise their car park capacity has been halved then they will have no choice but to properly manage their car park spaces. Simple really......

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Helen (7th May 2009 - 08:11:42) Actually I was quite amused to see a single male getting a ticking off by a security guard in Tesco Bordon the other week! He had parked in the 1st mother and baby space...closest to the store! Very cheeky I thought, he was asked to move his car and the last I saw he was getting back in it to move!! Maybe Sainsburys could take a leaf out of Tesco's book?

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Stephen (7th May 2009 - 09:21:52) MOTHER and baby parking. "Mother"! Does anyone else see the extreme sexism in this statement? How narrow minded to assume that the little wifey will be home maker and do the shopping while big hunter-gather daddy goes off to important work and pushes papers around all day. And its not just the person who started the thread and came up with this title! Lookking through all the rest of the 31 or so comments it seems that just about everyone male and female fall into the same gener stereotyping trap. Shame on all of you. This is the 21st century. Emily Davison didn't throw herself under the King's Derby horse so that she could get a wider space at Sainsburys.

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Sumi Olson (7th May 2009 - 13:20:55) Stephen.... They are called MOTHER and baby, that's not the fault of anyone who made a posting here. I agree, that's not covering the other parent so sure, ask the supermarkets to rename them CARER and baby if that's really a problem for you. My hunter-gatherer husband uses the spaces if he's got our son whilst I'm stuck at home in the kitchen wearing my pinny making him a nice supper and warming his slippers. He might use the MOTHER and baby space but his masculinity still seems to be intact and he still knows that he has a right to park in the that space... No, "Emily Davison didn't throw herself under the King's Derby horse so that she could get a wider space at Sainsburys", she did it so women would be enfranchised; it is in recognition of her and other womens' sacrifice that I have ALWAYS voted and think little of women who can't be bothered to vote. Your reference is as relevant as the posting about children standing in the trolleys and pre-election machinations. The issue of this posting at the end of the day has always been and always will be the following: should a person who has not got a child [with them] be using the space that is designated for those who have. And you don't have to be of any particular gender to understand the convenience and necessity of these designated zones to those lugging children in and out of carseats...

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Stephen (7th May 2009 - 19:09:59) Oh. Touched a nerve but I don't see why. Sorry for not sticking to the exact original topic of the thread. Let's stick with one issue at a time if that's simpler for you.

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Sarah (7th May 2009 - 20:41:00) Stephen I suggest you read posts again - many of us refer to 'parent and child' spaces. You're response/rant is incorrect, unhelpful and, as Sumi said, totally off topic. Parent and child parking is a very simply idea that some people just don't seem to grasp.

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Stephen (8th May 2009 - 09:14:12) A sense of humour is also a simple topic that (as per usual on this forum) people also have difficulty grasping.

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Sarah (8th May 2009 - 09:54:43) Stephen I can't see any attempt to portray humour in your post at all. It looked like an off-topic attempt to irritate people, which has worked. Parent and child spaces are for parents (little wifeys or hunter gatherers) with children. End of topic.

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Stephen (8th May 2009 - 13:02:36) Well then I'll be less polite about it. Some people on this forum (and it seems like most people most of the time) like to make posts to response to other posts in a very unpleaseant agressive manner. The issue is not what was in any one post, but the manner in which forum users react. I was just trying to make conversation. I don;t want to have my views shoved back down my throat. Now I dont really care whether you agree or disagree with me. I would hope that's what the forum is for. But I do think that the responses to my post were downright rude. I know what you are thinking: don't like so don't take part. Sounds like a good idea to me. And I know I'm not the only person to find that this forum seems to lead to impolite behaviour more often than not. Try any previous thread of more than 10 posts and you''ll find one person having a go at another person.

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - jo herridge (8th May 2009 - 16:15:39) On this topic, a few weeks ago I was at Sainsburys in Alton with a friend and her child. She parked in one of these spaces as she had her child with her plus the fact that it was busy and not many other spaces left. We went into the store as she was meeting another friend who was then taking my friends child home with her, brought some bits and left about ten mins later. When we left, the parking attendant for the company that patrols the car park told my friend she could not park in that space as she had no child with her. She told him when she arrived she did but he didnt believe her. She then asked him where on any of the signs does it state that you must have the child with you upon leaving. He said it doesn't. He told her that as he didnt see the child when she arrived he would take her reg number (which he did) and he didnt want her parking there again. He was rather rude in his tone to say the least. I know this may not happen often but it does happen sometimes.

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - P Weyland (8th May 2009 - 16:21:20) I find the parent and baby parking vs disabled parking spaces are hugely out of proportion with each other. Without giving accurate figures it seems to be alot more spaces are allocated for disabled badge holders than there are for parent and babies. Its often the case to drive around a full car park with loads of empty disabled spaces. I'm sure at any one time there's likely to be alot more parents with kids in Sainsburys than there are disabled people. I also dispute the severity of what warrants an orange badge. I've often seen people with disability badges park up in the bays and get out of their car, walk to the shop the same as anyone else. I'm aware that some days are good and some days are bad but it takes two good arms and legs to drive a conventional, unmodified car which 99% of disabled drivers are using But at the end of the day - a few more yards doesnt make much of a difference to either of them. The only nuisance is getting a young child in and out of the babyseat with two cars parked eitherside.

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Sarah (8th May 2009 - 18:16:52) Stephen Please read my initial two posts which were pleasant and not specifically having a go at anyone and please read your first post, the tone of which was to stir up trouble. I think it's a case of pot and kettle and don't really understand what your point was in your last post. You were the one using this forum to have a go at people who might have misadvertantly said 'mother and baby' not parent and child. I will not be debating this with you again since you appear determined to have a go at people in general and I don't see the point of this any further.

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Verity (8th May 2009 - 23:57:16) This is my first post on ‘talkback’ and I must say that I am deeply saddened that it is the direction this particular thread and comments around disabilities that have found me compelled to participate. Very much in line with pervious posts, whether or not one personally agrees or not, “parent & child parking” spaces and “disabled parking” spaces are set aside for those who meet the criteria, for a reason and should be used as such. The language I have used is that of the Sainsbury’s signs, and just to clarify there are equally 10 “parent and child parking” spaces and 10 “disabled parking” spaces at the Liphook store. If we really want to debate the use of language in our threads, and indeed those used across society, should we not refer to ‘assessable parking’ spaces – after all, is it not the person who is disabled by the way they are catered for by society and not the patch of tarmac that is disabled? As to whether or not there is likely to be disabled persons shopping, it seems some contributors to this thread might be interested in a few facts and may wish to at least reconsider some opinions they currently hold. There are an estimated 9.8 million people in the UK with some form of disability, that’s 1 in 7 of the population. There were 750,000 wheelchair users alone in 1996 and there is an annual rise in the numbers of people (including children) with disabilities each year. The orange badge was actually replaced nearly a decade ago – with the Blue Badge parking scheme, in which those eligible apply for the “Parking card for disabled people”. In Hampshire this is a 7 page application, backed up with medical evidence and needs to be renewed every 3 years. Should one dispute the severity of what warrants a blue badge? Disabilities are diverse and range in severity. They may be either visible or invisible, or both. There will be many who quite rightly need and qualify for a Blue Badge, despite their disability not being obvious to the average onlooker – such as severe pain, fatigue, or complex medical need. For instance, there are 350,000 people with epilepsy. Someone with a Blue Badge may be a driver or passenger. I am not going to go into the issue of adaptations… Although am curious where the 99% of disabled drivers use an unmodified car comes from. At the end of the day, do a few extra yards make a difference? Yes, it does. Please feel free to accompany me on a trip to the shops with my disabled daughter, see how easy it is to lift a ridged, 9 year old child out of the limited gap of the car door with another car just inches away, lift a fully assembled wheelchair, complete with seating system out of an un-adapted vehicle and fasten a series of straps, whilst stood out in the way of drivers more concerned with finding an empty space that who might be in their path, find a route across a busy car park (a wheelchair does not fit between conventional car parking spaces) to do the shopping. There make the return route with both wheelchair and trolley. Perhaps we could move to a society that respects individual needs and not pass judgements on what some may see as ‘special’ treatment. Equality and inclusion is not treating everyone the same, it is treating everyone appropriately.

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Finchie (9th May 2009 - 08:41:48) Brilliant, Brilliant thread - how did I miss this one... Totally agree it should be "Parent" and Baby: Will stop me slapping on my red silk dress to pass off as a Mother - hang on - no that's when I'm off to the Millenium Hall - oh-er - I'm confused. Totally agree that the number of disabled spaces is disproportionate for such a small car park. If the car park is full I'll use one (but I'm not looking for votes for a council election). (That should keep the thread going to beat the record). I might think twice about using the last one though (only to demonstrate I am not completely heartless). Note I only said "think" :-) When I am "hunter gathering" at about 9:30 at night, because I was unable to kill an elephant with a spear (did you read about that - totally unacceptable), strangely I wouldn't just jump into a Mother & Baby space, only because there are plenty of others. Kids in the trolley - Guilty as charged. Normally after a nice walk in the park to ensure shoes has appropriate amount of dogs muck on shoes - fix THAT problem first. Why did I do this ? You try doing a weekly shop with young toddlers - after 3 hours sleep - exhausted. And a hyperactive Jonny not wanting to be strapped the most uncomfortable contraption around. If being in the main part of the trolley shuts them up for an hour then brilliant. Better still - I buried them, normally with a large 24 case of beer, drunk as soon as I got home to actually sleep through the night !! I also let them tuck into a french stick - there was always some left so I could pay for it. But I never let them have a grape - because that would be stealing. Happy Weekend. Cheers, Finchie

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - jo herridge (9th May 2009 - 22:28:25) Finchie, We can always rely on you to cheer us up with your quick wit, we need more of it on here lol

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Mike Grimes (10th May 2009 - 01:03:55) Top Tip Designate your sister's spare child as your main one then you can park with impunity. Even if you are rarely seen with the child. (Make sure you remember to claim child benefit though). I judge,, but confess - Just one grape! I'm sorry.

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Barry Hope (11th May 2009 - 14:07:36) Mike, Great suggestion. Why not take it a little further and, once you have claimed the maximum benefits for the "main child", flip it for another one who becomes the main child and claim the expenses all over again (providing the system allows it of course!).

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Barry Hope (13th May 2009 - 15:12:58) By the way Mike One grape is understandable...... any more than one is just taking the pith.

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Mick Smith (20th May 2009 - 00:57:01) Verity........... I really like your post. You cut across the dross of all the small and petty minded individuals who seem to think they are something special or deserve some form of specialised treatment. The remainder of you only serve to remind me of my fortunate departure from Liphook in the 1970's when I was forced to leave the village with my family due to the influx of outsiders who pushed up the prices of houses in the village and I (along with many other real villagers) were unable to provide a home for our families and found wew had to move to leave fortunate surroundings. Liphook and Bramshott are the roots of my family and my family had resided there for many generations, only my mother remains. Most of you are "Newbies". Please appreciate the privilege and splendour of where you live and stop being so short sighted, grouchy and adversarial. You are very privileged to live in such a beautiful part of the country and if you want to slag each other off............... may I suggest handbags at dawn in the Square...............LOL The Parent and Child spaces and the Disabled Parking spaces are complimentary ONLY. They have no standing in law. Get a reality check please. An ever watchful former villager Mick Smith

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Sarah (20th May 2009 - 09:54:22) Dear Mike Smith Please read my earlier post and the posts of others. I am not a small minded or petty individual who thinks they deserve specialised treatment in response to 'parent and child' parking. I have explained quite clearly that most parents do not view them as status symbols, they are simply a big help in what is a packed and busy car park. Since you no longer live in Liphook you may or may not be aware of how busy the car park now is. I also stated that I do not like being abused in car parks by people who park in designated spaces with no 'rights' and that is one of the major issues for parents parking there. Surely we have the right to discuss this on here? I am offended also by the people, including yourself, who post replies on here complaining that people post on here to 'slag' people off, yet you yourself call the people who have been having a discussion on here 'petty and small minded' and you refer to us in an implied derogatory way as 'newbies' with no knowledge of how long people have lived here in Liphook or in the general area. I am stunned that in today's world where people need to move for jobs, affordable housing, transport, quality of life etc, people are still referred to as 'outsiders' and 'newbies'. It is a peculiar, insular way of looking at the world, and you seem to ignore the fact that you have moved away and are presumably a 'newbie' wherever you live. Are you therefore not allowed an opinion or feelings on the place you have chosen to live in? You suggest that we do not appreciate where we live because we are having a discussion, however heated, on supermarket parking. Most people have moved here because it is a very pleasant place to live. The posts on here in no way suggest that people do not appreciate that. It is a discussion about a major supermarket chain found throughout the country,not a discussion on the merits of Liphook and its charms. Those of us who have chosen to live here, whether born and bred or 'incomers', do appreciate that. Please don't paint us all with the same brush and please do not make sweeping generalisations on the type of people we are.

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Karen F (20th May 2009 - 11:23:17) Hi Mick Now would be an ideal time to move back to Liphook as I know for sure my house is only worth about £4.50.... Some of us are not 'newbies' I was born and bred in the area and my mum and her family moved to Bramshott when she was a child, so does that mean I am qualified to say what I feel, or am I still in the small minded section? Incidentally, in my opinion, the main reason for this posting in the beginning was about people being courteous and respecting the fact that parking in a 'reserved' space is thoughtless to those who may need it more... Karen F

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Sumi Olson (20th May 2009 - 12:30:33) Like others I've have been disappointed at the way this thread has gone at times. As Karen says, the point has been from the first and I'll repeat myself here, about the ethics of situations where unqualified people park in spaces for which they are unqualified. I've been suprised that when posters like Kev, Verity or Sarah and others including myself have tried to explain why these spaces are so appreciated (and again, did we really have to explain why - surely the reasons why clear & easy access in and out of a car's passenger seat is useful are obvious to anyone who uses a car)... we'd be covering topics such as sexism, parochialism, political motivations, newbies, incomers, and so on and so on. At a time when we are talking about the ethics and morals of our politicians who may be working "within the rules" or according to Mr Brown, within the law, but still take things that we feel don't belong to them, I think that to be truly socially minded in a community (regardless of how long you've lived there), one works with people rather than against them. Regardless of the legal status of these spaces, they are an asset to those who need them. Why use them if you don't need to? Why impugne those who do need them? Mr Smith, I assume you come to visit your old village to visit your mother. Please feel free to get in touch if you would like to help me get out my toddler and newborn out of the car if we park in a non-designated zone somewhere else in the car park. We'll also need help whilst we look for a suitable trolley. I'd be very appreciative of your help and look forward to hearing of your stories of old time Liphook to help pass the time. This request for help extends to anyone else who thinks that we parents or disabled drivers are being selfish and making you walk a little bit further than you'd like from the shop entrance. I'd really appreciate the help over the next few months, especially if it's raining or the children are hungry and tired. Best wishes, Sumi

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - Sue W (20th May 2009 - 21:01:22) It seems that some people can not take their own advice in connection with new posters. they too have content that is extremely off topic and aimed at one person in particular (personal to the point of contacting the editor with what aim? - to have exclusion, removal or editing of posts? I can only guess that - if that is allowed.. Enough said.

Re: Sainsburys Mother and Baby Parking - claire (21st May 2009 - 17:12:20) Personally I think they should put the Sainsburys Parent and Child spaces in Hollycombe, a good walk could aid the battle against childhood obesity and the little blighters would be to exhausted to whinge all the way around the store :) [editor - this thread is now closed]

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