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Warning To All Parents. - Anonymous Poster (8th Jun 2004 - 22:14:04) On Monday afternoon at around 4.30pm my 13 year old son was walking along the Headley Road on his way to meet up with friends and play football at Bohunt. A white small van possibly an Escort pulled up and he was approached by a man from behind and asked where he was going and where did he play football, on replying he was going to Bohunt the man asked where Bohunt was and could he give my son a lift. Obviously my son refused and the man became more demanding that my son get into the van with him to which my son ran off. Never at any time did this individual lay a hand on my son but he was very intimadating and my son felt very threatened. The whole incident was reported to the Police who responded at once sending out an Officer who took a full statement from my son about what had happened. We enquired from the Police if they were going to alert the Schools about the incident to make parents aware of this but they said because the individual did not physically touch my son they would just submit the report. Now in their own words this was a serious issue and of not normal behaviour, especially where the incident took place on a section of footpath that leads away from the roadside. Are they right or wrong not to let the Schools know I will let you all be the judge of that. However please bear in mind my son although only 13 is 6 feet tall I dread to think if a smaller child had been approached. So please all be warned, Afro-Carribean man wearing green safety vest (as on building sites) driving a small white un-marked van and of large build. With regards to driving your children to School we only live a mile outside the village and have always driven both of our children to school and will continue to do so even if it causes congestion rather that than encounter this nightmare which all parents dread. I have asked the Editor to kindly refrain from printing my name to this letter to protect my son who has already gone through enough since this incident, but I feel other parents should be made aware that this can happen here in Liphook and things could have been a lot worse.

Re: Warning To All Parents. - Chris (18th Jun 2004 - 18:51:58) This should be reported to the schools in the area so that as many children as possible can be put on their guard. The man who did this is (possibly) potentially dangerous and bolder action on his part should not be the only catalyst for greater vigilence.

Re: Warning To All Parents. - LippyChick (16th Jul 2004 - 06:26:06) ...and that is indeed what happened this week. An incident occured on Monday, where (allegedly) a 10 year old girl was the victim of attempted abduction. On Tuesday afternoon all children in the infant and junior schools were sent home with letters informing parents of the possible risks, and warning them to be vigilant. That afternoon, members of staff from the school, and others (whom I believe to be police officers) were present in and around the square watching. To any parent this is a potential nightmare. We worry about what could happen, how best to protect our children. My 10 and 8 year old children now walk to and from school sometimes with friends. This was their own desire, and I have previously felt that this is a positive stage in their development. My immediate response to this news however was to collect them from school that day, and discuss with parents of their friends whether we should allow them to continue walking. I have decided to allow them to walk, but with various additional safeguards in place. I know that they are walking with other children who are both reliable and sensible, so they won't be separated, but not everyone has that priveledge. Perhaps before routinely castigating parents who drive their children any distance less than 5 miles to school every day, perhaps it would be helpful to consider these recent events.

Re: Warning To All Parents. - Mike Grimes (17th Jul 2004 - 02:17:10) What is important, but not clear, is whether the two events are connected. The first incident was perpetrated by a man of Afro Carribean appearance in a green vest. Could the second incident involve the same person? - the victims were quite different. LippyChick, I admire your approach as I think it would be counter productive to wrap our children in cotton wool, but if there is a genuine threat (as there appears to be) then we should expect some genuine support from those that are paid to protect us. My remarks are not intended to be flippant but I think it highly unlikely that a child will be abducted whilst accompanied by someone with nous. We do not have to drive them to the school gates just because there is a potential threat, just do not take unnecessary risks.

Re: Warning To All Parents. - Anonmyous Poster (18th Jul 2004 - 21:34:53) With enough rumours sweeping through Liphook and the local area regarding abduction attempts I would advise anyone thinking of posting news of these to make sure that you have the hard facts, where like us, it was our child. Since my first post on this incident we have heard many stories regarding other attempts and even variations of our own sons experience by people who listening to them you would think they were right along side him when it happened. All I'am saying is that be very careful when posting what allegedly occured somewhere in the village after hearing it from others. There have been various developments in our case which are being investigated by the Police at present. My original post was an attempt to warn all parents about what had happened because I felt the schools should have been notified at least to the point where they could have warned the children to be extra vigilant on the way too and from school. In response to Mr.Grimes post, we have already had the potential threat dropped right on our doorstep thankyou, and no we have not wrapped our child up in cotton wool but we will drive him right to the school gate

Re: Warning To All Parents. - Mike Grimes (19th Jul 2004 - 00:11:43) I certainly do not wish to play down the very real risks that our children face, and have always faced. It is just that those featured in this thread are not the only risks. Over protection from one set of risks may unwittingly, or otherwise, expose children to an entirely new set. I am not aware of any child has being successfully abducted, recently, in Liphook but feel that if they had it would most likely be when the child was walking alone at an odd time and not in the main flow of children to and from school. I am aware, however, of a number of incidents (one fatal) where children have been injured by vehicles taking children to school. It may not seem like it to us old uns, but I still like to think that our children are gaining valuble life skills with their peers on the way to school, education not available whilst strapped into a 4x4.

Re: Warning To All Parents. - Chris (19th Jul 2004 - 13:15:30) Mr Grimes, this talkback section is about protecting our children from abduction and not about the problems caused by 4x4 traffic. I am sure you agree that parents have a right and duty to protect their children, and this overwhelming instinct may prompt some seemingly illogical and perhaps irrational behaviour in some parents, such as wishing to drive their children to school by car (4x4 or otherwise). I fear that feedback presented (not necessarily by you) complaining about school traffic is less about safety and more about the inconvenience of an elongated journey time. I drive my son to Bohunt from the north side of the village and will continue to do so until these issues of child abduction are properly addressed by the police or until my son leaves Bohunt, whichever comes first. By the way, if we want less congested roads in Liphook then I suggest we start at the nub by boycotting all further development, a prime reason for the horrendous traffic problem. Then, to aid pedestrian safety, EHDC should examine the provision of safety crossing points, proposed in other talkback articles and requested time after time by concerned residents.

Re: Warning To All Parents. - Alex Cameron (19th Jul 2004 - 15:23:20) I'm going to be sticking up for Mike on this one. The caveat is that i don't have children personally, but i do have a small nephew. How true it seems to be that we form attitudes and decisions through emotion, and then use logic to justify them. Why does every statement involving this kind of material automatically have to be prefixed with "Of course parents should be concerned for their children's safety, but..."? The first post said "Never at any time did this individual lay a hand on my son." The poster then carried on to say: "I would advise anyone thinking of posting news of these to make sure that you have the hard facts, where like us, it was our child. Since my first post on this incident we have heard many stories regarding other attempts and even variations of our own sons experience by people who listening to them you would think they were right along side him when it happened" To those who are afraid for their children - what would you have us do? Before we go ANY further, maybe its time to introduce some cold reality by looking at the official Home Office statistics, available at this address: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/r225.pdf Lets all read the facts, then make a judgement - everything else is waffle and fear stirred up by the media to sell papers. Sex offenders et al don't need any help from us. Ignore it if you must - some of us never let the facts get in the way of a good bit of melodrama. If you haven't read the facts, shut up. Very simple. Mike is completely right, and the only one actually showing any sense of perspective. For someone who has children himself, its admirable. Chris - what is it like to live with that kind of fear every day? Given that 95% of all abuse happens in the home by someone a child knows well (as pointed out before), do you show the same diligence and lock your children in the cupboard when your relatives come round?

Re: Warning To All Parents. - LippyChick (19th Jul 2004 - 22:03:11) to the anonymous poster :) The threat that you warned about in June was reinforced a week ago when allegedly (a word I used in my original posting without apology) a man with a similar description attempted to abduct a girl walking in a group of 3 in the Longmoor Road. My posting wasn't intended to create hysteria or make a problem worse, but to reinforce the message that you sent, that we have to be vigilant for our childrens safely. The girl in question was in fact injured on this occasion, and as such the schools were informed, something, which sadly didn't happen in the case of your son. You are right in making no apologies to protect your son, I as do numerous other parents, applaud you in that, and thank you whole heartedly for your early warning about potential dangers. Hoping you all get over the trauma soon (no sarcasm intended)

Re: Warning To All Parents. - Chris (19th Jul 2004 - 22:23:02) Alex, speaking of facts and media coverage, did you hear of the recent cases in Belgium and that of Sarah Payne, to name but two high profile and heart-rending examples? None of that was waffle; any more than public reaction to it was “media fuelled fear”. Vile people like Roy Whiting, Alan Chater and other paedophiles in this country did not abduct their relatives and media coverage of their activity was not designed to prompt gossip and speculation. Perhaps you are reading the wrong sort of newspapers. And before I shut up, here’s another fact for you from the NSPCC… “There are currently at least 110,000 convicted child sex offenders living in this country…a significant proportion of that number have actually attempted abduction…” Take a look at some of the Police Authority web sites. They are full of alarming facts and statistics about this vilest of obsessions. As you said you do not have children and your posting is all the more lacking in persuasiveness for that reason. Not quite sure what your point is really as it sounds to me that you are more put out by the problem than concerned that it could AND HAS materialised in our neighbourhood. Perhaps you just wanted to “have a go” or is it REALLY due to this fascinating pre-occupation with the school run, cars and congestion again? I am the father of one child that I do not wrap in cotton wool, nor do I lock him in cupboards when his relatives visit. Nor am I prone to being regularly haunted by any other idiotic notions that you may wish to describe. But I will drive him to school (in my 4x2 and my Prozac induced hysteria) if that is OK with you. Methinks you protest too much!

Re: Warning To All Parents. - Anonymous Poster (19th Jul 2004 - 23:33:08) We can all sleep easy now that Mr.Cameron is on the case, the self righteous and condescending voice of Liphook. One day when you manage to grow up leave the security of mummy & daddy and go out into the real world and have real responsibilities plus possibly have children of your own you will find having them and raising them is an emotive experience. It is not a case of reading Government Statistics of what can happen or reading a manual on how to bring them up. Your only valid point which summed up my second post in fewer words which was the point I was trying to make, if you do not know the facts, shut up! My post was only put on as a warning to other parents which to a great many of us is a very important issue, certainly not to be turned around into an issue of questioning people what they do when their relatives visit or equiping ones child with valuable life skills whilst walking them to school bemoaning those of us who have the choice and wish to drive them. However in reading some of your previous posts of which there are ample on other issues I am not surprised you joined in here with your usual know it all attitude and your opinions drawn from that vast wealth of experience and knowledge that tend to belie your tender years.

Re: Warning To All Parents. - Eneida Nelson (20th Jul 2004 - 07:50:12) The truth is that, with most disturbing experiences in life, you don't know how you would react until it happens to you. Mike and Alex can pontificate and quote figures until the cows come home - it doesn't really mean anything. Two sets of parents in Liphook now know, let's pray that's the end of it. Eneida

Re: Warning To All Parents. - Steve (20th Jul 2004 - 09:05:50) The reality of it is that as much as people don't wish to believe it is that Alex is quite correct. Statistics can not be wrong. There is no more chance of a child in England being abducted, assaulted or whatever as there was during WWII. The statistics show this. The problem we have is a media fuelled frenzy. Having lived in Liphook all my life these things have happened before and with help from schools, parents and the local community people stayed calm but kept vigilent and an extra eye out. These things worked out ok. I have no problem whilst this is going on and until the perpertrator(s) are caught that parents should drive or dare I say WALK their kids to school. I am the first to object to 4x4 mothers disregard for other road users blocking our roads but whilst this potential danger exists I am happy and would actively encourage parents to take whatever measures they feel appropriate to keep their children safe. I'd prefer you to walk em to school though, lazy gits. :O)

Re: Warning To All Parents. - Alex Cameron (20th Jul 2004 - 11:29:10) Where do i start? I think my point has been proved very strongly indeed by looking at the emotive nature of the replies. Lets be clear. Children must protected with all diligence possible, and all parents are deeply concerned for their children's safety - this is taken for granted for almost everyone. Nobody is saying these things don't happen. I'm not repeating it out every time i make a point. Chris- Yes, 2 high profile media cases which would have gone unnoticed unless they didn't have the capacity to sell a huge amount of papers by terrifying parents. Which leaves 11.7 million dependent children unaffected (2001 Census). What exactly is a 'significant proportion'? I'm personally quite involved with the NSPCC - i was surprised to see such a vague statement. What's your source for this? I couldn't care less about congestion - my point was that the fear of child abduction is driven wildly out of perspective. Are you saying that because i don't have children that the argument i make is invalid? Well i've never been murdered either, but i know it's bad, and although your children haven't been abducted you're happy to tell us all about it. Anon. Poster - I'm genuinely sorry about what happened to your son (no sarcasm). Thank you for proving my point so well and doing the hard work on my behalf. If you actually read my post, i've made it clear i don't have children and that i don't know everything. As it happens i hear a lot of what happens in the criminal justice system in this area, and have been horrified over my 'tender years' from some of the cases. Compare the two responses - an invitation to read the facts, or the desperate throes of a personal attack. I'm not here to sing you to sleep - self-education is your sole responsibility, as it is mine. The issue of the reality of child abduction in Liphook has become the topic, not how nasty you can be to the horrible people who disagree with you. Like others, i'm also trying to work out the extent of the threat. But nobody has answered my question - what would you have us to do in response to it? What was the advice from the police?

Re: Warning To All Parents. - Steve (20th Jul 2004 - 15:16:21) "what would you have us to do in response to it? What was the advice from the police? " There usual response no doubt. They don't have the man power cos most of them are putting up speed traps/cameras and hanging around trying to catch real criminals doing 5 mph over the speed limit.

Re: Warning To All Parents. - Chris (20th Jul 2004 - 19:39:33) ...isn't the job of apprehending dangerous paedophiles handled by a different crime unit?

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