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Parish Council by-election - Barry Hope (14th Nov 2008 - 08:04:52) Dear All Despite what I said about not running for the Parish Council vacancy last time around, I have decided to go for it this time. I know what you lot are like, never afraid to speak your minds and say what you think. That’s good as I believe in doing the same thing. So, at the risk of sparking off a great debate, I would like to let all of you know why I am standing and what experience I can bring to the Parish. My name, as you probably all know by now, is BARRY HOPE and I am putting myself forward for the Bramshott and Liphook Parish Council By-Election on Thursday Dec 4th because, after a period of ill health, I would now very much like to return to being involved in the local community and feel ready to take up the challenge again after not standing for re-election at the 2007 and subsequent local elections. Unfortunately I will be out of the country during the weeks leading up to the election on Dec 4th as I and my family will be on a well deserved, and long arranged holiday, (the first since the onset of my ill health), hence the reason for this posting. I am putting my name forward for election as I am still very keen to contribute further to the Liphook community and to ensure that all decisions made by the parish council are in the best interests of the local people. As a past Councillor and Chairman of the council until May 2007 I fully understand the processes and responsibilities involved to be an effective councillor. My time as Chairman, involved the setting up and running of the Millennium Centre (which is now a great success) and also the negotiations that took place with the Scouts and Guides regarding their occupation of the Millennium Hall. The most important thing to remember about that process was that, although I was Chairman of the council, there were 11 other councillors who all had a say about which route the council took to resolve the issue. The Chairman does not make the decisions but has to act in accordance with the votes of those 11 other councillors who all hold varying and controversial views. I am sure the Scouts and Guides leaders will confirm what I have always publicly stated, that I wanted nothing more than for them to remain in the premises, and that they should be allowed to continue to provide an invaluable service to the youth in the parish. I was a Venture Scout leader in the past and know just what a rewarding and satisfying job it is to assist young people in developing the skills needed for their lives ahead. Throughout that time I tried very hard to keep the proceedings fair and on a friendly basis. I am completely aware of the current issues that have, and will continue to have, an impact on the parish. I also understand the very real concerns that local people (including the young and not so young) have about the way the village is developing. I have lived in Liphook for nearly 20 years and my children attended Bohunt School (one of whom went on to be a special constable in Liphook for a while before joining the Hampshire Constabulary to make our environment a safer place). I know of, and understand, the concerns that many people have about issues like parking and transport problems around the schools; the effect of increased housing developments in the village and the disproportionate provision of retail and leisure facilities to match the demand; the impact on parishioners lives caused by vandalism and anti social behaviour in the local area, frequently associated with underage drinking and the importance of liaising with the police, EHDC, HCC and other authorities to ensure that they all work together to create a safe and pleasant environment for us to live in. I feel very strongly that we, as members of the public, should be empowered to take back control of our community in order to push crime out and establish a secure environment. As evidence of this (and purely as a concerned resident) I am currently working in liaison with PCSO Tedder who has Chief Inspector Philip Kedge’s support and backing, to get enough names to be able to set up a Street Watch Scheme in the Parish. (This is different to the Neighbourhood Watch Scheme in that it involves volunteers walking the streets, in groups of two or more, at their convenience with high visibility jackets, and the ability to take notes and interact with local youth, acting as a bridge between the police and themselves). The scheme has been piloted in Four Marks and has resulted in a reduction in petty crime and unsocial behaviour. In addition to supporting the interests and expectations of parishioners, I am also aware of the needs of disabled and disadvantaged people when trying to access the community and its services (shopping, parking, facilities etc). I am adamant that all public services should make provision for disabled people (where reasonable and practicable) so that they are not disadvantaged in any way. I now have a disability which has allowed me to see more clearly the problems and issues that disabled people face on a daily basis. As well as working as an Operations Manager for a large residential and care home company overseeing the management of 10 large homes in the South West area, I am also currently an executive member of EHDF (East Hampshire Disability Forum) through which disabled people are able to have a voice in the community and can campaign for improvements to their daily lives, so I am already involved in ensuring that disabled people have their say. I will continue to fight for local disabled people to ensure that they have the same rights, provisions and access to local services as able bodied people already experience. Lastly, I also feel very strongly about ensuring that the council as a legal body, and all councillors as individuals, are transparent, open and remain fully accountable in their decisions and operations to the parishioners in the village. All decisions made by the council should be based on sound, reasonable and logical debate, but above all they must be made in the best interests of the community (If a decision cannot be justified then it should not be made at all). As you may be aware, I am not frightened to speak my mind if I consider something to be out of order or if I think the council are not acting in the best interests of the community and the parishioners who live in it. I will always act in your interests. I have energy, enthusiasm and a passion to work for the betterment of the local community and do hope that you will offer me your support by voting for me on Thursday, 4th December 2008. I will try and keep up to date with events as they happen and keep a keen eye on this website for updates, debates, comments etc and from time to time may respond if needed. I promise I will do my best for all and if anyone has any concerns about anything in Liphook, please let me know, either through this website or directly to my email address which is barryjhope@btopenworld.com Best wishes and kindest regards. Barry Hope

Re: Parish Council by-election - Finchie (16th Nov 2008 - 17:45:47) Sold - what did it for me - once I got there :-) ... "all councillors as individuals, are transparent, open and remain fully accountable in their decisions and operations to the parishioners in the village" The Scouts and Guides debacle divided the the community. Actually divided implies a pretty even split - my impression was very small number of stubborn individuals completely lost touch with reality - forgive me as my ability to retain detail is not what it used to be - but I just remember a process "run behind closed doors" causing significant frustration. Barry, so long as you are behind principles of "openness" - you have my vote. Enjoy your holidays. Cheers, Finchie

Re: Parish Council by-election - Paul Robinson (16th Nov 2008 - 20:29:54) Well said Finchie. As a regular correspondent on this site I have valued Barry's input and my only reservation is that if he gets elected will he have to moderate his views and join the rest of them behind the 'closed doors' Some might argue that, with his experience, he is a greater force for truth and common sense outside the Parish Council. Paul Robinson

Re: Parish Council by-election - Dawn Hoskins (17th Nov 2008 - 09:12:56) I also share your concerns on the squashing of free speech that seems to occur as soon as people are elected to our parish council. Previously outspoken, opinionated people seem to be put in a position where they 'can't possibly comment' on things which are important to us. As I have said before, in an age where Parliament is televised 24 hours a day, it is absurd that the parish council feel there is justification in holding discussions and decisions in closed sessions. I just don’t understand it at all. We vote for people based on their opinions – then once elected they aren’t allowed to have one!! Barry, I have e-mailed you about this separately. Dawn

Re: Parish Council by-election - Steve Read (17th Nov 2008 - 18:31:17) Barry, Trust you are feeling better these days and good to see a return. Agree with Finchie, Paul & Dawn but especially Paul's point about being a greater force on the outside. Regards, Steve Read

Re: Parish Council by-election - Barry Hope (18th Nov 2008 - 19:32:49) Thanks for your comments, they are encouraging and I have replied to those that have sent me personal emails. Thanks for your support and I hope you will get others to follow your lead. I would be very grateful. Best wishes Barry

Re: Parish Council by-election - David Lush (23rd Nov 2008 - 13:24:58) HI Barry, Pleased to see that you are standing once again for the Parish Council. I feel sure that your considerable experience as both a councillor and chairman would prove invaluable in what is essentially a 'green' Council. I wish you the best of luck. However, whilst agreeing with most of your long 'prospectus', I must take issue with, I quote 'the setting-up and running of the Millennium Centre', in particular with words 'setting-up'. As you are aware the Parish Council took over the management of the Centre(in 2003 as I recall) from the Trustees of the Liphook Millennium Hall, a Registered Charity, who had been involved with this massive project even well before the building was completed, in 1998. The then Parish Council set up this body to take responsibility for ensuring the successful completion of the building of the Hall,and,then afterwards, that it was well-used and financially viable. This the Management Committee, under the very able leadership of Frank Conroy, worked very hard to achieve and I think you will agree that when the building was handed over to the Council, it was in very good shape. I am the first to acknowledge, that, since taking it over, the Parish Council have continued the good work, considerably expanding the number of users, and, of course, setting-up the cinema, which has proved very popular. As you say, it is now a great success, and I am as extremely pleased as you are that it has turned out so well. In the early days many people were sceptical, to say the very least,regarding the Hall's future, with comments like-'it will be white elephant' and 'the community already has enough leisure fac ilities' being freely expressed. Despite much criticism and negativity the management committee pressed on and I feel sure that all the ex-Trustees now feel fully vindicated that their confidence in the project has been shown to be fully justified. Anway Barry, I feel certain that, if you are elected,you will continue to ensure that the Parish Council supports the Millennium Centre and that this excellent community facility will continue to thrive for the foreseeable future. David Lush.

Re: Parish Council by-election - Phil McNamara (25th Nov 2008 - 10:28:10) Dear Barry / all HOPE09!! I encourage all to support Barry in his candidacy, as the values he is standing for are just and true. His contribution to the Parish Council will be, no doubt, constructive and open. Many thanks for standing forward, Barry. Kind regards, PMN

Re: Parish Council by-election - barbara (25th Nov 2008 - 11:07:44) The history of the millenium hall was interesting Mr Lush but what did you mean by the Parish Council being green? Is this a reference to efforts in recycling? Or being not retirement age?There was a new influx of councillors in 2007 and will be again 2 more soon but life changes and so does policy at EHDC level and National Government on an almost daily basis? What did Gordon Brown say last year- no more boom and bust? Things are not set in stone even in Liphook. Sometimes new people bring in new ideas and also may reflect the age group in liphook who are pre retirement age.

Re: Parish Council by-election - nigel newman (26th Nov 2008 - 17:33:46) Before everyone gets carried away on a rose-tinted tide of how great it would be to have Barry Hope back on the parish council, perhaps I should set out some of the facts. I have outlined these in a letter to the Liphook Herald this week which I repeat below. Thanks. Nigel. Having read the statements made by the candidates for next week’s Bramshott and Liphook Parish Council by-election, I feel compelled to write to set the record straight on two matters in particular. Although I am a parish councillor myself – elected at a by-election in May 2006 – I must stress that these are personal views rather than official ones. My concerns are over attempts by two former chairmen, Barry Hope and Jim Walters, to muddy the waters over the reasons they are not on the council at present. Mr Hope, who was chairman during much of the traumatic negotiations over a lease for the Scouts and Guides at the Millennium Hall, actually stood down at the last parish elections in May 2007. He stood instead as a Conservative candidate for East Hampshire District Council in an Alton ward but was defeated. A month later he tried to rejoin Bramshott and Liphook Parish Council by putting his name forward for co-option after not enough people had come forward to make a public election necessary. He failed to win support from the council and has since spent his time sniping from the sidelines about the very matters with which he was supposed to deal with when he was chairman. Mr Walters did stand at the May 2007 elections and was automatically elected by default. However, he then ruled himself out by failing to sign the necessary paperwork which goes with the job even though parish office staff offered to take it to his house to get his signature. He therefore disqualified himself from office. Like Mr Hope, however, he then put himself forward for co-option – and failed to win backing from other councillors who preferred to give new blood a chance. These two gentlemen are of course entitled to put their names forward again, but I fear it is in a spirit of looking back rather than going forward. We have moved on from those troubled times and hopefully put old disputes behind us. Villagers, of course, are entitled to vote for whom they like, and I just hope that as many as possible will turn out next Thursday to help shape our community’s future rather than bitch about its past. Nigel Newman

Re: Parish Council by-election - Barry Hope (26th Nov 2008 - 19:58:15) David Thanks for your comments, they are greatly appreciated. I have no wish however, to rake over old coals, suffice to say that a lot of people have put in a great deal of effort over the years to make the centre a success and I am sincerely grateful to all of them nomatter what their background. Of course I will do my best to ensure its continued success in any way I can. I think the most important thing is to concentrate on the future and to endeavour to improve the facility even further. One thing I always said as chairman was that it should be self financing and not be a burden on the parish, I am pleased to say that was achieved and that this this still seems to be the case. Phil Thanks for your kind support, much appreciated, I am sure I can rely on you for some valued and relevant input. Barbara Whilst I agree that fresh blood provides new input, I think it just as important that old and new work effectively together for the common good combining all available experience with fresh ideas and enthusiasm. Unfortunately, both from experience and my understanding, I am aware that some find new ideas, being questioned and opposed very difficult to tolerate and will rapidly man the trenches in defence instead of being open to possible alternatives and constructive criticism. I look forward to being back in Liphook on Thursday next, whatever the outcome ;) Best Wishes Barry

Re: Parish Council by-election - Barry Hope (26th Nov 2008 - 23:07:38) Nigel, Thank you so much for your comments and proving my point (good timing by the way, letter to the Herald in this week while I have little chance to respond as I am away before the next election.) Throughout this campaign I have remained civil and have concentrated on positive comments and have looked towards the future. You, on the other hand, have just done the very thing you accuse me of, harping on the past. I have neither "bitched" or concentrated on the past prefering instead to stay positive. Let me put you right. I did not resign from the council in May last year simply to run for District Council in Alton, but in fact resigned for a number of reasons AND to stand for District in Alton. It comes as no surprise to me that you take the stance you have, after all it is only a repeat of last year when, with the help of others and some lobbying on the part of certain councillors, you closed ranks and kept me off the council. I see no reason on earth why I should not be able to comment on anything I want to regarding council procedure, decisions or anything else. This is a democracy after all. Are you really saying that I should stay quiet if I have issues and that I should not cause problems. You seem to think that no one should do this. I seem to remember you being very forward in your views about the council before you were elected, what happened to those beliefs? I think it is just and right that the parish electorate vote and decide who is on the council instead of leaving that decision in the hands of a few people who have their own agendas for not wanting someone on the council. Please do not treat me as if I were simple. I have a valid and perfect right to make comments and if some (I stress some) of the council do not like this then I make no apology for that. It is their problem, not mine. As I said in my last post I look forward to next week whatever the outcome, but at least I can be satisfied that I spoke my mind nomatter who that upsets. I will stress again, my primary interest in being on the council is entirely for the benefit of Liphook. The views and opinions of individual councillors comes second to that. People will, I am sure, be able to make their own minds up and I am positive that your comments on this posting will help them to see clearly where we differ and what is more important to them. I look forward to more contact with you next week. Best wishes Barry

Re: Parish Council by-election - Steve Read (27th Nov 2008 - 08:59:44) Impressive stuff I'am sure you all will agree. In so far as how quick information can be released to the press and on here when it involves personal differences leading up to an election. Its a great shame that this light speed communication was not available to us, about agenda's concerning us and the village in general. Mind you if history proves anything, the Herald probably will get it wrong anyway, if in the correct edition. I think a round of applause is in order for Mr. Newman for contributing a substantial amount of PR in favour of Mr.Hope, and to think we all thought Foot & Mouth was a thing of the past. I'am off to get a Farnham Herald, anyone want a copy!

Re: Parish Council by-election - Sue w (27th Nov 2008 - 09:30:53) I can see one person who has shown us exactly what is wrong with the council!!!!! Move forward - yes, but lets backdate first! Its very pathetic when councillors have been ASKED on here a number of times to respond to certain valid points - and there is a resounding silence - but when, to attack another (ex) councillor - as seen here and previously (upon Barry's resignation) they suddenly string sentences together!!. Mr Newman if you expect people to take seriously what you say, perhaps you should have engaged here sooner. Enough said

Re: Parish Council by-election - Dawn Hoskins (27th Nov 2008 - 10:15:45) Mr Newman How nice to know that you read this site and have a working keyboard. If you are a regular reader of 'talkback' you will have seen many threads which must have concerned you in your capacity of Parish Councilor. You would also notice that the very few councillors that talk to us and provide information via this medium are held in VERY great esteem by locals, who feel that these people are helping them and working with them. May I ask why you deem it approriate to use this forum to attempt to smear a person's character, yet, have never thought of communicating with the public about matters which are important to them? Your silence regarding these matters is quite resounding.

Re: Parish Council by-election - Chris (27th Nov 2008 - 10:26:15) I hope that the future includes concentrating on the issues that count in Liphook and not on personal differences of opinion. Scouts/millenium hall - it's ancient history and not relevant now. A united parish council will have more teeth than a divided one and Lord knows there is enough for it to be united about. It is curiously entertaining to see pillars of the community swiping at each other publically but I would prefer to be left with the impression that the well oiled parish council machine will not be distracted from the basics of keeping our village/town environment safe, crime, excess traffic and opportunistic building free. Settle your differences in the pub after hours!

Re: Parish Council by-election - Chris (27th Nov 2008 - 10:41:29) That should have read safe "and" crime, excess traffic and opportunistic building free!

Re: Parish Council by-election - David Lush (27th Nov 2008 - 12:28:00) Hi Barbara, The word 'green' with regard to the Parish Council, referred to the fact that the majority of the present Council are fairly new to the job. This is in no way a reflection on their individual abilities, but simply showing that past councillors, like Barry Hope, can contribute a great deal because of his knowledge and understanding of the workings of Local Government. I certainly welcome new younger blood on the Council, as they can relate more to the concerns of the more youthful element of the parish. However I do think that it is important to strike the right balance. The proportion of retired people living in Bramshott & Liphook (I am a pensioner!) is rising all the time and will continue to rise for the foreseeable future, simply because people are living longer. There is also the fact that several major developements are in course of construction, all of which are aimed at retired persons. They, too, need to be represented on the Council. I am, therefore, very much in favour of having a 'balanced' Council, comprising members of all ages, which should enable them to fully represent all sections of the community. David Lush

Re: Parish Council by-election - Steve Read (27th Nov 2008 - 13:57:13) Hi David, One point I would disagree with you, please don't think the ratio of elderly compared to the younger generation of residents has anything to do with living longer. The fact of the matter is that every blade of grass within the 'village boundaries' has been developed either for retirement homes, care homes or properties only affordable and available to people relocating out of the cities. Through greed of developers, a spineless attitude by councils etc. hardly any affordable housing for first time buyers and local people has been made available. That is why the proportion is so great and will continue to do so, most of the younger generation have had to move away to find a starter home that they an afford. Its got nothing to do with people living longer.

Re: Parish Council by-election - Barry Hope (27th Nov 2008 - 14:56:56) Good to see so many people are experiencing what I have been concerned about for a long time and can see through it. I am determined to remain positive and am happy to work with the council as long as it is for the benefit of Liphook. Nigel Newman was right in one thing, I was asked to stand for district in Alton as a conservative. I was defeated by a long standing and much liked Lib Dem after a well fought campaign that did not get personal, unlike Nigels stance, and I am not even standing against him but trying to work with him and the council. I would point out that although I stood as a Conservative in Alton for District Council. I believe in being non political at Parish Level and that the only thing that matters is whether any decision is right for Liphook. One last point, if anyone can scan a copy of Nigels letter and send it to me at barryjhope@btopenworld.com I may have a chance to reply in next weeks Herald even though it will be the day of the election. I would be very grateful. Mind you, if you feel compelled to write the Herald in response that would be good also. Best wishes Barry

Re: Parish Council by-election - Finchie (27th Nov 2008 - 15:58:07) Interesting ...This could get messy ... Before casting my vote I would like to know from both Barry & Nigel some history, as my memory is like a sieve. While I agree we should always move forward, and I don't particularly want to open old wounds ... I think the Scouts & Guides debacle was an interesting illustration of how constructive or destructive our representatives can act. Personally, I did not like the obstructive approach, there was a pathetic waste of time & money in legal costs - all without putting the interests of our great young population at the forefront (plus all those adults that volutarily support incredible organisations like the scouts and guides). I have no self interest other than having been a cub for one year in the days that we really rubbed wood together to light fires. As we know - past performance is not a guarantee for the future (but it is about all we have to go on !) I will cast my vote with whoever supported the Scouts and Guides... Cheers, Finchie

Re: Parish Council by-election - Bary Hope (27th Nov 2008 - 22:11:04) Hi Finchie Nothing is ever that simple but I will say that there were difficulties and sticking points on both sides. As chairman during that time I was involved in the negotiations and tried extremely hard to inject common sense and fair play into the proceedings. I was bound by the decisions made by full council at the time and I know that there were many different views. For my part, as the leaders of the Scouts and Guides will confirm I am sure, I repeatedly stated that I wanted nothing more than for the two groups to remain where they were and continue for a long time into the future in the hall. I have said the same on this site at various times over the months. I will continue to support that position whether I am elected or not. Best wishes Barry

Re: Parish Council by-election - Sumi Olson (28th Nov 2008 - 10:41:44) Hi Any chance the other candidates could be invited to write in so we can find out a bit more about their views before the election. I would have thought they could have used their initiative themselves like Barry has done but as they haven't, Editor or Parish Council administrators, do you think an invitation could be extended so there's an even coverage of candiates' stances? I applaud Barry's initiative in getting in touch but would like the think the community were given a broader sweep of the candidates and Parish Council staff, since the website hosts your page, this would be a good chance to use the medium to spread info. Cheers Sumi

Re: Parish Council by-election - nick wells (28th Nov 2008 - 12:18:39) Thank you for the opportunity to put forward my credentials as a candidate for Thursday’s by-election. I am Nick Wells, a 50 year old electrician and I live in Queens Road with my partner Sharon who is a secondary school teacher. Although I have always taken an interest in what goes on in the community, I hadn’t thought about taking such an active part until a couple of years ago when I got chatting about it to someone I met in the Cancer Research charity shop. I had seen what was going on with the Scouts and Guides and their struggle for a lease at the Millennium Hall and, like a lot of people, said it was time heads were knocked together and something sorted out. It was suggested that if I was so passionate about local issues that maybe I should stand for the parish council; so here I am putting my money where my mouth was! I wouldn’t claim to be an expert on local government and how it all works – or is supposed to work – but I reckon that is probably to my advantage as I try to bring a fresh approach to things. On the plus side, I have plenty of business experience and can see my way through most problems. I don’t have a political axe to grind and am happy to sit down and listen to anyone’s point of view before coming to a reasoned conclusion about it. I am passionate about the freedom of the individual to get on with life without the intrusion of the nanny state or overbearing bureaucracy from the town hall. I abhor secrecy and believe that most council business should be out in the open so we can all see how decisions are made and who is making them. I must stress that I am a true Independent – not just pretending to be one – and have no political affiliations. I believe that decisions affecting people of all political persuasions should not be based on the narrow party views of one particular group. You may say ‘well, we’ve heard all that before, but what is he actually going to do that’s different from the others?’ I aim to be upfront from the start; I shan’t seek to hide uncomfortable truths behind closed doors; I shall do my best to let people know what’s going on. Just as I bent people’s ears about local issues in that charity shop, so I shan’t mind if people bend mine. I want to make sure our money is well spent, particularly at such hard times, and am keen to help establish a proper youth centre for our youngsters. I realise that I am up against one or two people who have been on the council before and that there is a bit of a debate going on about this. What better time, therefore, to draw a line under all that and vote for someone new. Cheers. Nick.

Re: Parish Council by-election - Barry Hope (28th Nov 2008 - 15:57:45) Hi Nick Glad to see your posting. I applaud your honesty and approach and was pleased to read your commendable aims. The only one thing I would ask is that you avoid making a personal swipe on other candidates. I can honestly say, and you would agree with me if you knew me, that I do not allow party politics to play any part in my parish council involvment. I am not in the habit of pretending to be anything other than myself. Other than that I wish you well and success next week, who knows, we may be working together. Best wishes and kindest regards Barry

Re: Parish Council by-election - Nick Wells (28th Nov 2008 - 19:12:38) Hi Barry Many thanks for your reply to my posting and for your good wishes. I am very pleased to hear that you believe in an apolitical approach to Parish Council affairs although I am not sure why you thought I was referring to you specifically. Like you I can see no advantage in division along party political lines in a small local council when the object of such a council is to approve or reject proposals that impact upon the local community. That community will by definition consist of people of all political persuasions who deserve to have their views considered by a council who are united in acting in the best interests of Liphook. It is, surely, time to consider the future of the village and put behind us this acrimony and division. Should I be elected to the council next week I realise that on occasions my views will not be those of the majority. Times when what I feel would be in the best interest of Liphook residents does not come to pass. I would, under those circumstances, continue to act upon those views to bring them to fruition if I felt that they were right, widely held and sensible. Should those views subsequently appear to have been misguided or ill informed, however, then I would accept that and move on. What I would not want is to be known as somebody whose resentment builds up to the extent where it clouds good judgement on future issues and who could not work with those with whom I had previously disagreed. Anyone with a problem would find me approachable, sympathetic and ready to listen. Finally I would undertake to keep watching this site and deal as best I could with any concerns raised here. Kind regards Nick

Re: Parish Council by-election - Chris (29th Nov 2008 - 06:30:51) Question...to all prospective Parish Councillors...if the Parish Council does not agree with an EHDC planning approval or decision what circumstances prevail to ensure that the Parish Council's views are upheld in the wake of a potential overulling by EHDC? I have seen one or two situations where the PC has disagreed with a proposal but has been overruled. The Parish Council is an important local voice but I have the impression that in some matters its objections can be overulled by higher powers. This is not an acceptable situation, at least not in one case that I am aware of.

Re: Parish Council by-election - Sue w (29th Nov 2008 - 22:44:42) Chris I do not know all the ins and outs, but from what I have been told in the past, the Parish Office has the priviledge on discussing any issues within their area, and pass judgement upon it BUT it does not equate to it being upheld by EHDC. It seems that they 'farm it out' to others, get the opinions and then decide from Petersfield what would be OK. This does not mean that what would be OK for Petersfield would be OK for Liphook, but because it would be acceptable in Petersfield or larger Towns, it should happen here - regardless of how our Parish council voted. It would also be fair to say that at times what our Parish recommend EHDC would agree, but that is not conditional.. If this is not what happens I would gladly be corrected, and question why certain decisions have gone against recommendations from PC!

Re: Parish Council by-election - Mike Grimes (30th Nov 2008 - 02:49:43) Chris, Your question would normally be better directed at the incumbent councillors rather than the prospective ones as those are the ones that should all know the answer. Trouble is that out of the ten remaining only two have bothered to communicate with us by posting on here. One manages a post only when fearing a threat from a former councillor and the other, I believe, got eaten by knotweed whilst attempting to avoid a local Passfield resident with purple hair. The parish council is, in planning matters, completely impotent. It can merely, and does merely, offer an opinion on planning applications to EHDC. I believe that EHDC do take these opinions seriously but they are completely free to ignore them. Of course, even the EHDC decisions may, ultimately, be overridden by the Secretary of State.

Re: Parish Council by-election - Darren Ellis (30th Nov 2008 - 11:25:21) Re:BLP Council elections: Good to see a couple of prospective/current council members at least opening their mouths...... or should I say using there fingers............ in public for us all to hear. Long may it continue so we all get an idea of what they stand for............. where are all the others? Come on guys, get your fingers talking! Re: Planning decisions: I may be wrong but as I understand it BLPC have no sway at all over planning decisions in the parish. BLPC submit comments to EHDC, in the same way that we the public can, but the decision is always with EHDC. Even if they say no........... or even yes as in the Lloyds at King Georges site debarcle ........... Developers/Central Government can appeal and get it overturned. So much for local decision making! Still that's democracy.

Re: Parish Council by-election - nigel newman (30th Nov 2008 - 13:12:21) My, my, what a can of worms I seem to have opened, and of course I will make an immediate apology to....anyone who went out to buy a Herald thinking my letter would be published there. It wasn't, but I don't suppose we should be surprised by that - it will probably go in after the election is over! I am also sorry that Barry Hope has taken what I have said personally, but it is hardly my fault if he decides to take a holiday and feels unable to defend himself. I know you have bravely fought illness, Barry, and I wish you the very best for your continued recovery. Anyway you seem to be in touch with a keyboard wherever you are and able to respond to postings on this site. Yes, I do have a keyboard of my own and have never been shy in tapping out my views on it here. I have always been open to suggestions and criticisms: indeed there was a time I even put my mobile phone number on so people could contact me. The reason I got involved this time was to try to put the record straight on Barry's record as chairman and the reason he received little support when he tried to rejoin as a co-opted member - one reason may have been a meeting attendance record of only about 60 per cent. He talks about openness and transparency, but I don't remember him showing much of it when he was chairman during the scouts and guides debate and how much he expected them pay for their lease. In his own letter to the Herald (they published this one!) after the 2007 election he talked about 'internal matters' affecting the vote which halted his return to the council - and said he had information about it. I quote: '..the issues I am personally concerned with relate to other internal matters (at the time of my chairmanship) that I questionned. It is still my belief....that those issues, and the fact that I dared question the council and Mr Groves (the clerk) about them had an influencing factor on the voting outcome on June 25.' You have been banging on about this ever since Barry and no doubt will pursue it again if you are re-elected - so maybe it's time to come clean and tell us what it is - in the spirit of openness and transparency, of course. Nigel.

Re: Parish Council by-election - Nick Wells (30th Nov 2008 - 15:17:39) Hi Chris My understanding is that Liphook Parish Council (and indeed any PC) acts only as a part of the Application process. As such its views are considered when a final decision is made - in Liphook's case by EHDC - and strong representation may well be taken into account. It will certainly be studied. Again, though, as I understand it, the final decision is made by EHDC although the individual applicant has the right of appeal against the outcome. Hope this is helpful

Re: Parish Council by-election - Barry Hope (1st Dec 2008 - 04:19:00) Nigel, I gave you the courtesy of a reply to your previous post. Your last post was, I consider, even more personal. Quite simply, I have neither said or done anything that I regret, am ashamed of or need to defend. I have a right of reply if I so wish but I refuse to lower myself to your level. The more you put finger to keyboard the more it looks like a smear campaign or witch hunt is in progress. Despite your fixation with the past, I will by comparison, focus on real local issues and the future of Liphook. Barry

Re: Parish Council by-election - Sue W (1st Dec 2008 - 10:52:12) Well actually I think Nigel has a point. Just say exactly what it is that bothers you so much, be transparent and open – or not to put a too finer point on it shut up! We hear the talk, but see no real reasons, I do believe that for you to stick to your guns, there must be some issue - but unless you can print it here, what is the point about saying anything? People have criticised me for banging on about a certain subject very close to me, but at least I have revealed MOST of the details. I am one to fully appreciate, when you live with something that it becomes consuming, and others get tired of it, but that does not mean you have to give it up because others feel you should. If there were serious 'goings on' why did you not attack it further and follow it up with some kind of investigation. I am sure there are procedures that could have been followed up! Somehow I get the impression from both Nigel and Barry, that the future of the BLPC will always be jeopardised while this issue is not sorted! Perhaps the Chairman of the council should conduct a proper investigation and sort this out once and for all – other wise general folk will always be sceptical of the workings of the group and staff.

Re: Parish Council by-election - barbara (1st Dec 2008 - 13:01:32) As most people know I am also a Parish Councillor. Mr Newman, knows all the issues surrounding Mr Hope, and very well knows that trying to entrap somone on this website, as the recent arrest of the Conservative MP proves, could backfire. You also know Mr Newman, that using a public website to pursue this matter and make personal comments is not leaving the past behind us. There are serving Parish Councillors whose attendance at Full Council Meetings so far this year have not reached even 60% so leave that argument out.

Re: Parish Council by-election - Sumi Olson (1st Dec 2008 - 13:37:55) I'm disappointed to see that the invitation to join in the debate before elections hasn't been taken up by many other candidates. This would have been a useful opportunity to see what potential candidates have to say before we place our vote on Thursday. I hope that the Parish Council staff and get in contact and persuade them to invest the time... Am also saddened to see we cannot move on beyond past events and that things are being taken so personally as postings progress. If this the outcome from an online discussion, what will be the atmosphere of discussions in the meeting rooms? I agree with Sue in saying that perhaps an independent review might be in order but this should be separate to current & future PC business or else we are doomed! I am more interested in constructive debate for the future of our community; while knowledge of the past allows informed decision making for the future, an inability to move on and dwell on real or imagined failures creates impotence, proscrastination, and ultimately very little change. I would like to see a parish council which prefers to focus on providing solutions to current circumstances rather than drown in recriminations. What's done is done - please can we move on and deal with the here and now and what lies ahead...? Sumi

Re: Parish Council by-election - Eneida (1st Dec 2008 - 14:54:18) What is the point of candidates posting their manifestos on here or posting leaflets through our doors? They ALL say everything they think we wish to hear and then do exactly what they want or are allowed to do.... I've become completely disillusioned with all politicians, at whatever level, except Boris who's the only one that's done anything useful for ages....like getting rid of 2 men I really disliked! Eneida

Re: Parish Council by-election - Sue W (1st Dec 2008 - 19:11:33) Barbara Now if Mr Newman knows of the circumtances etc concerning Mr Hopes concerns, and so too I presume others including yourself on the council - is there any indication that these points are contentious and indeed if they should be in the Public domain? Basically, does he stand alone or is there others who support him? Perhaps what he knows is only available to a select few - if that is the case then all the councillors should be involved and if it is of public interest, then send out a statement according.

Re: Parish Council by-election - James Arbuthnot (1st Dec 2008 - 19:19:33) Eneida! I'm mortified! James

Re: Parish Council by-election - Eneida (1st Dec 2008 - 22:25:42) Sorry James!!! I should have said all politicians except you, of course.....and Boris :D Eneida xx

Re: Parish Council by-election - Mike Grimes (2nd Dec 2008 - 00:05:32) My goodness Enieda, that is only one short of turning your MP to a pillar of salt. I'm impressed. But I hope you are not responsible for the mortification elsewhere in the party.

Re: Parish Council by-election - nikki (2nd Dec 2008 - 09:59:14) Parish Councillors aren't Politicians . I know I'm certainly not (well the last time I looked anyway). Politics does not (and should not) come into it at Parish Level. I could shock you all and say I vote and support the Monster Raving Loony Party and that one of my strong beliefs is that all roads should be painted purple (tis my favourite colour) but I wouldn't impose my political beliefs on the good people of Liphook and nor should any other parish councillor. I'm amazed that the forthcoming Parish Council Election is turning into such a Circus on here...if I'd known I would've put a motion forward at the most recent meeting to hire Zippo's Circus tent as the Polling Station. Come on, People are losing sight of the good work and progress that has been happening in our Parish..we are one of the largest wards in east hants and I believe we are served well by those of us that are passionate enough about it to stand as Councillors, and long may it continue. Good luck to the Candidates and I look forward to working alongside some new faces. Merry Christmas, Nikki :-)

Re: Parish Council by-election - Eneida (2nd Dec 2008 - 15:51:25) Nikki, I think Parish Councillors can be described as 'politicians'. It doesn't mean they have to be a member of any particular party, or bring party politics into the equation. However, they are elected to represent the local population and administer the area, just like any other politician. Why do you feel this thread has turned into a Circus? Surely it's just local people posting their opinions on a community message board....do you feel we shouldn't be allowed to do that? Nobody is losing sight of the good work you Councillors do on our behalf!! Why do you always take comments on anything you are remotely connected with so personally....first it was Post Office queues and now this election....just chill out a bit :) Eneida

Re: Parish Council by-election - nikki (2nd Dec 2008 - 17:16:41) "The post office queue" thread was turning into a non-constructive criticism thread about people I work with and who are friends of mine..so yes I'm going to support them :-) I also know what the word Politician means thanks :-) And I'm also very chill thanks- but the heating is on so hopefully i'll start to warm up soon :-)

Re: Parish Council by-election - John Wingfield (2nd Dec 2008 - 21:53:50) Blimey ! I'm gonna vote for the two lady candidates !

Re: Parish Council by-election - Chris Taylor (3rd Dec 2008 - 13:18:49) I'll vote for anyone who can tell me why a democratically elected team of local community representatives who are best placed to represent local views and requirements have to play second fiddle to a load of nameless pen-pushers at EHDC when it comes to planning decisions. When the PC elected to prevent inappropriate building in Conford, EHDC overrulled it. EHDC have one set of planning standards for some people and another set for influential building firms! I'll also vote for the team that is least likely to give up pushing back when their well thought out decisions are overruled.

Re: Parish Council by-election - Nick Wells (3rd Dec 2008 - 14:26:14) Chris In reply to your point "I'll vote for anyone who can tell me why a democratically elected team of local community representatives who are best placed to represent local views and requirements have to play second fiddle to a load of nameless pen-pushers at EHDC when it comes to planning decisions.", I, as a prospective PC member, have to say that that is the way it is. The Parish Council can make recommendations that can, as you know, be ignored. On your second issue, the one referring to people who will continue to push, I can do no better than to quote from my initial posting on this website dated 28th November- "Should I be elected to the council next week I realise that on occasions my views will not be those of the majority. Times when what I feel would be in the best interest of Liphook residents does not come to pass. I would, under those circumstances, continue to act upon those views to bring them to fruition if I felt that they were right, widely held and sensible." Finally I am not part of any team because A) I havent been elected to the council yet and B) because I am independent and not affiliated to or aligned with anybody else. I hope that this posting is helpful and that you will do as you say and vote for me tomorrow. Thanks and regards Nick

Re: Parish Council by-election - bill mouland (3rd Dec 2008 - 16:38:06) Sir. I'm afraid I take exception to the comments of your correspondent 'Nikki' ref the Monster Raving Loony Party. I regard it as an honour that I once accompanied the party's current leader Alan Hope (no relation to Barry, thank God!) to the parish council meeting in Devon where he was inaugurated as the first member of the MRLP ever to take office. Since then I have flown the flag at every occasion - even so much as putting a MRLP sticker in my window when I realised that I lived between a Labour supporter, Dr John Tough (bless), who is the current Bramshott and Liphook parish council chairman, and an old bloke from UKIP. Meanwhile, I'm afraid I have grown rather tired of people saying that the parish council is non-political. Of course it is. That's why sad little groups which think they might one day have a majority meet beforehand to decide how to vote. PS. Nikki. is it true you have Lib Dem stickers in your window at election time? Ah, the Lib Dems - people who say they will do something for everyone - but end up doing nothing for anyone... I wish I'd said that!

Re: Parish Council by-election - nikki (3rd Dec 2008 - 17:53:53) I do believe you've been mis-informed Bill. I did not have any stickers in my window..I had a wacking great big board in the middle of my front garden :) And if your source of information had told you correctly..it was before my Co-option to the Council :) I know (and those who work alongside me and who have met me) that my ACTIVITY on the council is not driven by Politics . I'm actually rather pleased with the work I have been actively involved in...the new footpath in passfield, the new signs for the village shop out here, the new road signs,the improved road junction ,speed limits, the Millennium Hall. I actually do a lot for everyone or try to and this is driven by my nature, not by politics. :)

Re: Parish Council by-election - Barry Hope (3rd Dec 2008 - 19:00:35) Hi Unfortunately Chris, the planning process is governed by Acts of Parliament and it does mean that parish councils can only be consulted, object or support as the case may be. Don't forget thatt one parish councillor is also an EHDC councillor who also happens to be on the planning committee there. Liphook also has two other district councillors at EHDC who both also sit on the planning committee. They no doubt support the views of the parish but can, and often are, overulled by other councillors from different areas within EHDC who think they know better. I would support decisions in the interests of Liphook and try to ensure that as many residents as possible were aware of any planning issue and that they write to EHDC individually to add thier objections to the list. Hope this helps. By the way Bill, with reference to the MRLP leader Alan Hope, would it make a big difference to you if I was related to him? ;) Just one last thing, I will be off the radar for the rest of the day as I am flying home shortly. Regards to all. Barry

Re: Parish Council by-election - Emily F (4th Dec 2008 - 08:45:52) Barbara As you feel that Mr Newman already "knows all the issues surrounding Mr Hope" that suggests to me that you do too. Would you care to elaborate? Emily

Re: Parish Council by-election - Barbara (4th Dec 2008 - 12:00:56) The posting where Nigel mentioned council matters is subject to what is called the EXEMPT session of the PC Meetings. I regularly vote to allow the public in to this part of the meeting, but eleven others do not. Until that day when public are allowed into this, I cannot disclose details and neither can Nigel, not without sanctions. Like the MP we are bound by a CODE OF CONDUCT. I suggest that as Mr Newman was the Councillor who bought up the subject you address this question to him.

Re: Parish Council by-election - barbara (4th Dec 2008 - 12:15:03) I do not think that being a member of the MRLP is something to brag about Bill! |NIkki does her best for the people of Passfield.> Being not a member of any political party I can honestly say that there is no voting along party lines. I have always voted for the public to be allowed into the closed sessions, as I say above, it needs other people to vote with me before things can change.

Re: Parish Council by-election - Paul Robinson (4th Dec 2008 - 18:26:04) I have just got back from the polling station having just registered my vote. When I asked the official if there had been a good turn out he looked at his watch (6.00pm) and said you are the 109th voter! In a town the size of Liphook this is a very poor turn out. People do not have the right to criticise the Parish Council if they cannot be bothered to vote. Paul Robinson

Re: Parish Council by-election - Chris (4th Dec 2008 - 18:39:44) I assume that he wasn't counting those votes cast by post. Still an awful turnout though!

Re: Parish Council by-election - Jaybee (4th Dec 2008 - 19:29:20) My wife and I voted just after six, that brings the count up to 111, an ncrease of 1.8%

Re: Parish Council by-election - Sue W (4th Dec 2008 - 20:23:07) Is it that surprising really? I know at first hand that people will say one thing and do another! The bad pr and history that surrounds the PC unfortunately breeds discontentment, and no matter what some newies say, and believe, Barbara has pointed out that the core will always 'over ride' new blood. Shocking and surprising no, but sad that not enough locals are that interested in who sits on the council - yes! One good piece of news I read today, Mr Arbuthnot's Westminster Report, 'Standing up for Local Businesses'. Very interesting - shame he could not have been a fore runner in the issue of 'Standing up for smaller retailers' earlier - seems to be saying lots of the things I have been commenting on here, but got a lot of sh** for and not a single phone call, meeting, e-mail or communication from him 18ths back. Seems that the equipment was there, but the lights were not on!! Welcome to our world at last Mr Arbuthnot! Perhaps a starter would be to make sure that the planning conditions placed on supermarkets are actually stuck to, stop local authorities and Government bodies bowing to mega bucks and not allowing such planning in small towns/villages that have to live alongside 'superstore size' supermarkets. If you would like information of the details I am sure Councillor Anna James can fill you in, after all that is where I got my information!! The rot set in long ago and sorry, but the problem is much greater than urging locals to now support those businesses, (who were or seemed, dispensable a while ago)when huge price wars are going on with the large stores, people who are cash strapped will choose cost over local 90% of the time. The suggestion is worthy of praise. I would love to spend half and hour talking about issues that affect those Small retailers, Sole Traders in YOUR North East Hampshire area and particularly here! Wow at long last!!!!!! Sue

Re: Parish Council by-election - Barry Hope (4th Dec 2008 - 21:32:31) I have just been to cast my vote (no prizes for guessing who one of those would be for then). Asked the same question and I also got the impression it has been a very low turnout. Despite the turnout I still say it is better to make the effort than to do nothing. At least all of the candidates in this election have tried and were willing to put their heads above the windowsill to make a difference and I would just like to say best of luck to all who put their names forward. Best wishes to all, and thanks for all your comments and views, they are all valuable. Barry

Re: Parish Council by-election - Barry Hope (5th Dec 2008 - 00:22:48) Hi all I have just left EHDC where the count took place and the results are as follows: Barry Hope 409 Kay Murray 381 Jacqueline Poole 392 James Walters 236 Nicholas Wells 282 Turnout was 14.87% So the result is that I and Jacqueline Poole have been elected as parish councillors. I just wanted to say a big thank you to everyone who voted for me today. It was a good campaign and an interesting one. I would like to offer my congratulations to Jacqueline and also my commiserations to those candidates that did not get enough votes despite the hard work that I know you all put in. I now look forward to working with other councillors, no matter what their views, and to doing my best for the parish of Bramshott and Liphook. Thanks again and best wishes to all. Barry

Re: Parish Council by-election - Mike Grimes (5th Dec 2008 - 00:32:31) We have just got back from voting at the millenium hall (It's a long walk) and we did not ask how many had voted so far as I thought that sort of information should be witheld. (If there is only four, I can muster another five) The figures quoted above sound bad but there must be other polling stations. The Church Centre perhaps, and is there one in Bramshott? I must say, however, that I was disappointed not to receive any communication from three of the candidates. These are the ones I did not vote for.

Re: Parish Council by-election - Paul Robinson (5th Dec 2008 - 09:09:03) I was interested in finding our the results of yesterday's by election so, naturally, I went to Liphook and Bramshott Parish Council Official website. Not only did I not find the results but after tooling around for about ten minutes I could find no reference to the by election! So thanks to Barry for conveying the results on Liphook.co.uk. So much for the new visibility as reported in last week's Liphook Herald. Paul Robinson

Re: Parish Council by-election - Dawn Hoskins (5th Dec 2008 - 10:55:06) I agree that it was a poor show that the other candidates did not put out flyers or contribute here. I was in the hairdressers yesterday and asked them if they were going to vote, they said they didn't know anything about any of the candidates [or what they stood for] so threw their voting cards in the bin. Anyway, well done to those who made the effort. Dawn

Re: Parish Council by-election - Chris (7th Dec 2008 - 07:46:58) Congratulations Barry and Kay! Would you agree that the first thing on the agenda is to make the PC more visible? Perhaps some sort of flyer to everyone describing who you all are, what you can and can't do for us and what the aims and aspirations are. A regular newsletter may also be appropriate. For the PC to have more strength it needs more than 15% of the community it represents to care what it stands for.

Re: Parish Council by-election - Barry Hope (7th Dec 2008 - 10:45:43) Chris Just to clarify and avoid any confusion, it was myself and Jacqueline who received the highest votes. Kay Murray came a very close third. Barry Hope 409 Jacqueline Poole 392 Kay Murray 381 With regards to your other comments, I would agree that it was a very low turnout but at least the process of democracy has been allowed to happen and that is important. Whether people choose to use their right to vote or not is another issue and councillors maybe need to think why this is and what they can do to get more people interested. Kind regards Barry

Re: Parish Council by-election - Paul Robinson (8th Dec 2008 - 00:25:56) Fair enough Barry, I am all for democracy but would you be so understanding if you had not been voted in? Less than 15% turnout is not representative of the populace of Liphook. If the people that bothered to vote could elect those councillors already on the Parish Council, many of them might not have seats today. Fifty or more voters could have made a very great change to the final result. You and the rest of the councillors need to connect with the people of Liphook and Bramshott. Paul Robinson

Re: Parish Council by-election - barbara (8th Dec 2008 - 11:48:18) dear Paul, thanks for your concerns. If there is a particular local issue you wish to raise please let me know. As previous posters have mentioned the Parish Council cannot change things on its own. Important decisions are made by EHDC or Winchester with influence from the Parish Council. The issues also mostly have to be voted through on the Parish level before most action can be taken. Where I get annoyed is at the slowness of anything to happen but I cannot change that.

Re: Parish Council by-election - Alan Baker (8th Dec 2008 - 12:05:13) It would quite interesting to know what actual powers the Parish Council have. Alan

Re: Parish Council by-election - Barry Hope (9th Dec 2008 - 16:40:28) Hi Alan, In support of accuracy and completeness I would suggest that you write to the Parish Office asking them the same question and for information and / or a breakdown of what property and land they own, the responsibilites they have both financially and staffing wise, how they are funded and what the money gets spent on. It's always useful, if you have time, to attend the meetings once a month to get a better understanding of what happens and to keep an eye on the minutes that are published on their website, a link to whioch is provided on this site. Mind you, as Barbara says, most decisions of any major nature are either the responsibility of EHDC or HCC who are both in turn, subject to central government directives and edicts. If you still are none the wiser let me know and I will do my best to compile a synopsis for you but it may take me some time. Kind regards Barry

Re: Parish Council by-election - barbara (10th Dec 2008 - 20:38:43) There is a website which I have used in the past on which all the powers of the parish council are mentioned, it is a government one obviously, from memory something like yougov.co.uk From memory again most of the powers are things like local streetlights, allotments, graveyards, recreation grounds, radford park etc village greens, dog fouling and some grass cutting, power to put in place some traffic calming measures. The highways and byways commitee have a meeting in Jan if it is this aspect you are concerned with.

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