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Parish Council Planning Committee - Andy (14th Oct 2013 - 15:20:27) Does anyone else have any concerns over the impartiality and consistency of the Parish Council Planning Committee? I do and, whilst this is not the right place for airing details of these grievances, I was wondering if it is just me? This is not the first time I have encountered this and I will be taking the matter further with the council and beyond.

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - ellie (15th Oct 2013 - 00:19:13) The Parish Councils do not make decisions on planning they are only consulted on applications and give comments which are passed on to the planning officer at EHDC. Sometimes the decisions are made by the officers there and sometimes, if a District councillor feels strongly enough that the application should be decided by the elected representatives they can ask for it to be a committee decision. This usually happens with large applications. The planners at EHDC are not always in accordance with the Parish Council comments.

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - Andy (15th Oct 2013 - 09:05:55) Thanks ellie - not sure what your point of your post is though. The question is aimed at people who have been through the planning application so I'm pretty sure they'd understand how the process works.

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - Andy (15th Oct 2013 - 09:24:27) Perhaps I should clarify my question here - regardless of the outcome of the planning application itself, which is determined by East Hants District Council, is anyone concerned about the impartiality and accuracy of the comments the Parish Council Planning Committee have made regarding their application?

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - JJ (15th Oct 2013 - 13:47:38) Well, not a problem in relation to any personal application, but I certainly agree that I'm at a loss to understand the views expressed to some planning applications that are put to the parish council. I always had the hope (probably naive) that they expressed the views of the parish, but I think not. When I saw recent building works happening at a property near us I thought, what?! who agreed to that? On checking the EDHC website the plans had been submitted using a slightly different address that the property is actually located at, it also said parking was available outside the property, it certainly is not., yet they got planning permission and the parish council gave 'no objections'. As people representing the parish (I thought) why didn't any of the local parish council say, 'where is that property?' or is there parking there, any previous planning applications? But no.

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - Andy (15th Oct 2013 - 14:12:24) JJ - That ties in with my experiences. My understanding is that they're supposed to come out and view each proposal but when they discuss it in the meeting it's as if they haven't even been out to look. Similar proposals in similar locations are treated completely differently for no apparent reason other than someone has attended the meeting in person to complain which appears to carry a lot of weight. I can't see that any thought around the validity of each application has taken place as there is no consistency - it's almost as if they have a special dice which they roll and if it comes up with "object" they do so based upon a random set of criteria pinned on a dartboard which someone throws a dart at whilst blind-folded. It's a purely subjective process and it needs to be a lot more objective and a lot more professional in my view.

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - ellie (15th Oct 2013 - 15:27:41) Sometimes what is on the plans surely is not what ends up being built? There is no system that says either the District or Parish councils must check what has eventually been built. The planning permission are valid for 3 years. My point was that it is not the Parish council who decide things. If you have found someone contravening their planning permission call EHDC.

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - JJ (15th Oct 2013 - 16:52:48) Ellie, your points are noted, however, the questions here are not about what 'ended up being built'., but how the Parish Council appear to stamp 'no objection', without checking the details of the application. In the case that I mention, the building is still ongoing, so I don't know what it will look like yet. But I do know the Parish Council cannot have checked the application at the time they were asked if they had any comment, because, if they had actually checked, their answer should have been 'the application address does not exist in the parish'.

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - R (15th Oct 2013 - 21:36:12) so what were the comments they made?

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - Keith (16th Oct 2013 - 08:23:05) Andy I can understand your frustration, but the Parish Council can only place an objection to an application if there is a valid reason to do so, and since the implementation of the National Planning Policy Framework by the current Government there is a presumption in favour of sustainable development, i.e the Parish Council has to have a reason that the development would breach current local planning policy, and cannot object simply because it does not like the appearance of a building or extension - it has to be able to prove there is a breach of planning policy. This is even harder locally currently as the current planning policy (the Joint Core Strategy) is currently being reviewed. Subsequently on many occasions, many Parish and Town Councils find their hands tied - they don't like a building plan, the local residents don't like a building plan, but there is no valid planning reason to object to it. Lack of parking is not necessarily a breach of planning policy, it depends on the buildings proximity to facilities like shops, bus stops and the railway station (and if it is an existing building how many parking spaces it already has). The plan you refer to presumably cannot have had an address that was incorrect by any great degree or the EHDC officer responsible for the case would not have been able to visit the site - also bear in mind that in some cases the address of the planning unit (the area of land to be built on) can be different to the postal address (largely due to the vagaries of Royal Mail). On the subject of site visits, the only person obliged to visit is the EHDC case officer. Parish and EHDC councillors may well be encouraged to visit but are under no obligation to do so, and often it is not necessary if their local knowledge means they are already familiar with the location in question. And in answer to one of your points, yes personal representations can make a difference as they can aid councillors' understanding of any difficulties a new development may cause, so if there is a planning application you object to, by all means, go to the planning committee meeting (or write to them) and let them know. If writing bear in mind that letters and emails sent to EHDC or the SDNP are not automatically copied to the Parish Council so please send them a copy yourself.

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - Anna (16th Oct 2013 - 09:07:59) With respect I think Ellie is missing point. The question which Andy posted was “Does anyone else have any concerns over the impartiality and consistency of the Parish Council Planning Committee?” He is not disputing that the decisions on planning applications rest with EHDC and/or its elected councillors - that is common knowledge. He is concerned about the impartiality and consistency of the Parish Council Planning Committee when they submit their comments, which is all they are allowed to do, on planning applications before they go before EHDC. In order for any parish council to make informed comments on planning applications, the councillors on the planning committee must have a fundamental understanding of the planning process in order for impartial, informed and knowledgeable comments to be made. EHDC DO listen and take into account comments made by a parish council as it is assumed that these comments represent the wishes of their electorate while still taking into account planning policy. I think that the times when EHDC's decisions on a planning application do not accord with the comments of a parish council is usually when that parish council's comments are not in line with development policy. There must always be good PLANNING reasons for either allowing or turning down an application not emotional and immotive ones.

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - Andy (16th Oct 2013 - 09:24:02) Keith - you appear to be confusing my posts with JJ's - I have not mentioned parking for instance. What I'm interested in is whether anybody else has any experience of the Parish Council commenting on applications based on incorrect facts and commenting inconsistently between clearly similar applications. The final decision of District Council is not relevant here but I have doubts over both the competence and impartiality of the Planning Committee and I have examples I believe demonstrate this. I am in the process of taking this up with Parish directly though, and do not feel this is an appropriate forum to discuss the detail. Surely it's in all our interests to have a fair, unbiased and professional council that we can trust?

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - Andy (16th Oct 2013 - 09:38:11) Anna - Spot on, thank you. That's precisely what I'm concerned about.

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - JJ (16th Oct 2013 - 10:25:54) Agree with Andy.. spot on Anna! (I would like to expand where it seems my using the word 'parking' came up in relation to the application I was referring to.. it was a planning application to extend a building and, as the request would effect the parking that existed, it said that parking could be opposite. Wrong. But no one checked the address).

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - ellie (16th Oct 2013 - 15:33:01) I do not understand when you say the answer should have been "does not exist in the Parish" the application would have to have a valid address before EHDC would publish it? Sometimes the neighbouring authorities allow comments from other Parishes would it be that? Can you specify the location?

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - Chris (16th Oct 2013 - 20:50:14) From my personal experience on a number of occasions I find the comments passed to be unsubstantiated and on occasion the comments passed by some parish representatives biased, personal and actually not pertinent to the application. I concluded that this was in the hope they could sway any decision made by EHDC or the rest of the committee. One parish member commented that he wasn't allowed to complete certain work which was similar to my own application. Which is completely irrelevant. On my last application the basis for objection was based on information from the original planning application when the house was built which was no longer pertinent and from the original owner some ten years previous. I would always recommend attending a parish meeting if you have an application as neighbours can put an unfair biased view across and you need to be able to stand up and have your say or it will be considered factual by the parish council as they don't have the resources to investigate further.

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - Andy (17th Oct 2013 - 13:38:07) Turning up at a planning committee when your neighbours are going to be there strongly objecting to what you wish to do is a very confrontational thing - something many many not be willing to do for all sorts of reasons. This is particularly the case if you know your application is sound from a planning perspective - why turn up to get involved in a slanging match? The Planning Committee should be aware of this and the fact that someone has turned up to object should carry no extra weight whatsoever. The application should be judged at Parish level on its planning merits and the facts of the application alone, as is done by District. This is, unfortunately, not always this case with our Planning Committee.

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - Simon Coyte (17th Oct 2013 - 14:45:39) As a former long serving member of the BLPC planning committee it was always the policy for a member to visit both the applicant and surrounding properties to view the application, and report back to the Meeting. It takes a long time to be acquainted to what is relevant in terms of planning regulations and what is not an acceptable objection to an application. Whilst it is hoped the Chairman will let every body have their say both for and against it is still only an opinion from the PC and the District officers and elected members will consider the PC's Opinion but are not obliged to act upon it. Simon Coyte

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - Andy (17th Oct 2013 - 15:45:22) We've made 2 applications Simon, and on both occasions someone from the planning committee visited and consulted with our neighbours - but not us. I complained the first time this happened and was told that they're not obliged to visit the applicant, they only do so if they can. I think we're all well aware that District make the final decision but having an incorrect and unnecessary objection from Parish is not helpful and, in my mind at least, the credibility of the BLPC Planning Committee is shot to pieces.

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - JJ (17th Oct 2013 - 17:23:15) ellie - sorry, I don\'t want to name any specifics on here, but I will try and give you a close example. Lets say, your home has a garden at the front that looks on to Apple Lane, your address is 1 Apple Lane.. now lets say your land also looks on to Pear Road at the rear and you put in an application to be able to take down the hedge at the rear, to be able to drive your car along Pear Road (occupied with other houses but a dead-end, narrow unmade lane) and on to your land from there. Some neighbours on Pear Road are not happy and put in their objections, on access/egress grounds, increased traffic and parking. You get planning permission, with some restrictions/covenants. This is completed. You then decide to put a name on your house at 1 Apple Lane, say, Orange House. So. In reality, the address is still 1 Apple Lane, that\'s from when the house was built, on the deeds, everything (it\'s been there a long time, over 40 years), it has neighbouring houses too. Now a couple of years later, suddenly building work starts at 1 Apple Lane to extend the house at the front and the back., on searching the planning website, the application was put in for Orange House, Pear Road, as if this was the first application for such a property, this was returned \'no objection\' by the Parish Council.. but no one said, there isn\'t an Orange House, Pear Road? In fact, on further checking, the property was recently sold, by a local estate agent, selling it as Orange House, Pear Road, but did not have a For Sale sign up, so no one knew. Who knows if the now new owner actually knows the property is 1 Apple Lane? One may think, what does it matter? Surely it matters that it took the neighbour of 3 Apple Lane to say they didn\'t object, but advising of the correct address, which may be significant to the application, the EHDC have put all the plan references and documents (which even the plans had Orange House, Pear Road written on them by the architect) and application references over on to 1 Apple Lane\'s application documentation pdf\'s from earlier years. No one appears to have noticed that there were restrictions on the original application when taking the hedge down.. .. however, permission granted for Orange House, which is, in fact, 1 Apple Lane, which has had previous planning permission.

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - ellie (18th Oct 2013 - 09:43:41) I believe that the EHDC plans are dealt with by location plans as well as address and if a house is re named in subsequent years I think they would still send an officer out to the location? The location is still the same? Some Hedgerows have protection yes if they are ancient. Of course mistakes happen but when as when a protected tree is cut down the most one can hope for is that it is re planted and/ or somebody fined. Did the Ehdc planners differ in their result then from Parish Council comments? The fact that the house itself is still there means that the address does exist and that house is still paying council tax to EHDC whether or not not the name has changed will still mean it is there geographically.

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - JJ (18th Oct 2013 - 10:37:38) Andy. Very best of luck mate!

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - Don Jerrard (21st Oct 2013 - 15:53:00) This thread was drawn to my attention by a number of Liphhook residents, not just Councillors, who felt that some of the postings showed a lack of understanding of how the Parish Council's Planning Committee operates. The Committee does try to listen to and fairly represent the views of the Parish as a whole in making comments on planning applications. So if you want to see what the planning committee does and ask any questions which may concern you please come to a Planning Committee meeting, where anyone will be made welcome. There is a meeting this evening with a couple of very important items on the agenda, so please come along, if you can, especially Andy, who started this thread. The committee will always be happy to listen to constructive criticism. Don Jerrard, Chairman, BLPC Planning Committee

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - Andy (21st Oct 2013 - 16:22:19) Don - I am not able to attend the meeting tonight, unfortunately. However, I do wish to discuss my specific concerns with you and I will be in touch shortly to arrange something shortly. It is worth pointing out that I previously made several constructive suggestions around how the Committee handles applications when Cllr James was Chair. These appear to have been entirely ignored so I can only hope I am not wasting my breath again this time.

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - Andy (21st Oct 2013 - 16:43:20) Just to clarify my position here, again, as I think I have a good understanding of how the Planning Committee operates. My concerns are around situations where I think the Committee has not acted with impartiality and has made inconsistent decisions not based on the facts that have been made available to them.

Re: Parish Council Planning Committee - Andy (6th Feb 2014 - 09:48:59) Just to update anyone who's interested, I'd like to point out that my complaint has now been dealt with by the Parish Council in a professional and objective fashion and I am happy with the outcome. Credit where credit's due.

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