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A3 Cycling Impassable - Dewy (21st Aug 2013 - 19:36:25) The bad news: The cycling path from Liphook to Grayshott along the A3 is dangerously overgrown with vegetation. Risk of falling off or into the A3. The Parish Council refusal: Ground nesting bird... The good news: All daredevils and suicidal cyclist have fun. Thank you 2012 Legacy. I would have another go at the council, but the office is closed every time I try...

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Finchie (24th Aug 2013 - 07:36:30) And another thing ... The path seems to stop 200 meters from the Liphook exit. Shere laziness on the builders part ! I looked around and there was a locked gate that leads to a tunnel, plus a smaller gate leading into the woods. I was on a road bike with thin tyres, so wasn't going into the woods. I expect that's what I should have done. Instead, I accelerated to 60 mph, hopped onto a very narrow dual carriageway and inserted myself in between two HGVs to get down to the Liphook junction. It's a flippin' death trap and I expect there will be a cycling fatality there in the next few years. For the sake of not extending the path 200 m ??? Madness. Anyone know who is accountable for that decision ? And getting it changed ? Less happy long weekend, Finchie

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - tony (24th Aug 2013 - 11:52:02) A while back I was cycling back from Hindhead to Liphook on the new path signed "Cycle path to Liphook". When I got to the Canadian Memorial car park the cycle path just stopped. But worse, it sort of narrows and turns right very sharply, leading directly out onto the A3 carriageway. So, coming downhill at a fair pace you find yourself suddenly thrown out onto the A3. I posted something about it at the time (I came off my bike into the brambles, brushed by a lorry, but only a few scratches) I contacted the police and the Highways Agency. They said basically that they couldn't finish off the last little stretch to Liphook because their wasn't enough land by the verge or something(I've still got the letter somewhere). Basically they just came along and put up a sign saying "End of Cycle Path' and took down one of the "Cycle path to Liphook" signs (but not all of them), nothing more, job done! I left it there as I was so busy with other things, but never felt satisfied as I'm sure there could be enough space to finish off that last section if only there was a will. As it stands, calling it a cycle path to Liphook is clearly misleading, if not an outright dangerous lie! The best thing in the meantime is to use the horse riders tunnel to cut across to the other side of the A3 and then I divert down through Bramshot. but I would love to see the Parish Council or somebody trying to get that last little bit finished properly. The Highways Agency got all the environmentalists praise for putting in a cycle path to Liphook that isn't!

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Dewy (24th Aug 2013 - 13:18:54) Is there a regional / national body like a cyclist organisation that could help?

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - G (24th Aug 2013 - 13:52:25) Try SUSTRANS

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - dave (24th Aug 2013 - 22:43:01) all of you posters spouting off about lack of funding for the cycle paths, how about cyclists paying some kind of road fund license and maybe insurance to pay for it all instead of expecting the local taxpayers to fork out yet again!!! Car drivers have to pay for the roads don't they?!!!

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Richard (25th Aug 2013 - 08:10:45) Road Fund License was abolished c. 5 years ago. Presumably you mean Vehicle Excise Duty, and that goes into the Treasury's funding pot. Most cyclists I know pay tax, National Insurance VAT, other Excise duties, etc. These duties and taxes also go into the general funding pot. Cyclists are entitled, as are all others, to petition for a share of the revenue to improve something they use and would benefit from. The old chestnut of cyclist not paying RFL needs to be laid to rest. "en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_Fund I can not guarantee the veracity of the source, but it is a starting point

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Finchie (25th Aug 2013 - 08:27:09) Dear "dave", Thank you for your invaluable contribution. I'd just like to make a couple of points, aside from the fact my response was nothing to do with funding. Most adult cyclists pay "Vehicle Excise Duty" anyway. I personally pay more than my fair share as I have multiple vehicles and yet I can only ever use one at a time. I'd love to pay for what I use, and pay 3 times what any cycle tax would be. Sorry, until I'm Prime Minister, I can't sort that one out, so have to live with it. Arguing cyclists have less right to use the roads is like arguing that smokers should take precedence for medical treatment, because non-smokers don't buy cigarettes and therefore don't pay hospital tax. So back to the point "dave", in the current state, on that stretch of road, a cyclist WILL die or be severely incapacitated. "dave", I don't want that to be one of your children, my children or anyone else's children (or adults for that matter). And so I will try and do something about it. You feel free to carry on Internet trolling, but going forward I won't bite. Bidding you a great Bank Holiday weekend, "Finchie"

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Dewy (25th Aug 2013 - 09:07:43) Dearest Dave, I’m not obese, not an alcoholic, not a smoker - but pay National Insurance and my contribution to the NHS…. I’m not a driver but I have to share the massive burden of the motor industry on society and the world (pollution, noise, spills, wars, accidents, climate change, roads and car parks everywhere…). I've no children but pay all taxes. Would you kindly exempt me from road tax?!

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Keith (25th Aug 2013 - 10:13:04) To try to bring this thread back on track, cycle paths are the responsibility of Hampshire Highways (part of HCC), so you need to speak with Ferris Cowper, your HCC councillor. No use speaking to the Parish Council as these cycle paths are not within their area of responsibility, so they will simply pass your comments on to HCC.

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Dewy (25th Aug 2013 - 10:23:41) This thread was about cyclists’ safety and about local authorities not delivering where they've ticked boxes. Start a separate for the cyclist-motorist tiff?

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Sarah (25th Aug 2013 - 12:14:31) I've encountered cyclists on the last stretch towards the Liphook turn-off southbound a few times recently while driving home, and it is SO dangerous!! There should not be cyclists on this stretch of road in it's current state. Especially when you get very close to the turn-off and pulling out into the fast lane to go around cyclists is not possible due to heavy traffic.... I think cycling is great but this bit of road isn't equipped for cyclists, and I think if I was a cyclist I would not persevere with this stretch once I realised the cycle path stops.

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Richard (25th Aug 2013 - 15:52:43) Correction: I meant to say that RFL was abolished c. 50 years ago, not 5. Clearly typing issues this morning. Finchie, as you are our local councillor, is there a way to proceed to get the cycling provision improved. Also gaining permission from MOD to cycle on the land they own would also be helpful, as I understand they are reviewing access, but it seems to stalled.

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Phil (25th Aug 2013 - 17:10:29) Absolutely agree with the views here about how dangerous this 'cycle path' is. The Highways Agency allegedly promote green transport, but actually force cyclists onto a busy section of fast carriageway? Then again, the Highways Agency are probably busy closing the M25 for hours because of a caravan fire instead of addressing a feature of their roads which is putting innocent life's at risk. Just a thought - our MP Damien Hinds was recently photographed on his bike at Shipwrights Way, so I will drop him a note to invite him to cycle the last 'section ' of the cycle path into Liphook. If he accepts, maybe we could get a few other folk to join in?

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Simon Coyte (27th Aug 2013 - 15:11:03) I thought the cycle route was via the under pass at the Canadian Memorial and then down Rectory lane to Bramshott. Simples eh!!

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - paul (27th Aug 2013 - 15:56:33) Sorry I agree with Dave. Pay a tax for what you want and be responsible on the roads just came up Headley road two bikes riding side by side cars can't get past them, they seem think they own the roads. I know not every one is like that but from what I have seen most are

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Matt (28th Aug 2013 - 06:56:12) Paul this thread is about ensuring cyclists don't join the road so I'd have thought you'd support it? I'm certain you'd agree that it would be better for cyclists to remain on a cycle path than join the A3. On your point about cycling 2 abreast it is permitted under the highway code though I.would acknowledge Headley Road isn't an ideal place to be doing so. Unfortunately like some motorists, some cyclists are oblivious to other road users but others pull in to let cars pass on single track roads when there is a place to do so. It's all down to the person on the day and I don't think that because a motorist pays vehicle (not road) tax, they earn the right to drive like a selfish [insert own expletive]. So to the issue of the cycle path. It officially finishes at the memorial and if you know the route underneath and you have a suitable bike (kids and bikes with thin wheels are not suitable) you can get to Liphook via the underpass. Sending the route this way would also require permission from the MOD who own the land as signage will be required plus an agreement to alter the surface to make it suitable for all users. Has anyone written to the officials named above? I'm happy to draft a letter if not.

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Phil (28th Aug 2013 - 09:38:03) @Matt I've already contacted Damien Hinds about this matter. I will post any reply as soon as one is received.

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - dave (28th Aug 2013 - 13:34:10) matt did you not see simons posting re; rectory lane, why can't you use that' it is a pretty ride through bramshott' why is everyone banging on about how dangerous the slip road is when there is no need at all to go that way, as for the under pass it is a public right of way and the military have to respect that, that is why it was built.

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Dewy (28th Aug 2013 - 17:01:15) This poor thread… it was meant to be about unfulfilled promises from authorities to residents (cyclists), and general safety notice. This thread was turned into the old motorist-cyclist tiff, could the moderators help separate thread subjects? My responses by names: Dear Matt and Paul, cyclists are legal on the road - fact. 1) most cyclists I know in our part of the world (with such pathetic public transport) are also motorists, paying their taxes. 2) all roads in our part of the world are constructed for motorists, not cyclist specifications. Perhaps return to demand cyclist pay road tax when the roads are cycle-friendly, not cycle-deadly? 3) assuming your call for taxing cyclists is viable, and until such time as they might do - is motorists’ illegal aggression against cyclists justified? 4) society and local community (motorists or not) as a whole pay dearly for motorists’ to use the roads (environment, infrastructure, causalities, oil wars etc…). Dear Phil, many kind thanks, please keep us informed. Dear Dave, Rectory Lane is an extended detour and quite unsafe for cycling. Very pretty, I agree.

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - dave (28th Aug 2013 - 18:40:22) well thats strange dewy because horses and riders seem to use it very frequently and they obviously feel safe enough. i think you should concede on that point.

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Richard (28th Aug 2013 - 19:09:16) Dave, you mentioned about the underpass being a right of way. Do you have any more info, as I have had "discussions" with a "jobsworth" in the past as to whether cycling was permitted through the underpass. My belief is that one of the purposes of this underpass was to allow cyclists to cross the A3 safely

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - A. Ryan (28th Aug 2013 - 19:51:19) Dave, Maybe motorists behave better around horses than they do around cyclists. The point of this thread is to make it more safer for cyclists. Why would anyone wont to argue that point!

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Simon Coyte (28th Aug 2013 - 23:07:19) The under pass was put in at the request of the Parish council and is a public right of way Simon

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - tony (29th Aug 2013 - 09:45:25) The MOD land is a footpath only. I was shouted at by an old farmer once for daring to wheel my bike across his land, apparently in law, no bicycles means no bicyles, ridden or walked! Also when crossing through the tunnel the other side isn't suitable for road bikes with thin wheels and the gate back onto the A3 is locked! You can just about squeeze through on bumpy ground, but hardly a fitting end to a nationally recognised new multi million pound cycle route! This next bit won't elicit any sympathy from non cyclists, but here's the rub. When I go out for a long leisure/health/fitness cycle across the Devils Punchbowl and up to say Guildford, the only scary bit is this last bit. Having normally exhausted myself by the time I get back across the Devils Punchbowl (I'm not that fit!) I then look forward to the freewheel all the way back to Liphook. It's a great new cycle path, you and your tired muscles can finally switch off. Then the cycle path runs out and it's such a pain in the a***! As a cyclist and driver I can tell you it's unsafe (as someones going to be seriously hurt on that stretch), not everyone using it is from the local area or will know about the MOD land tunnel and the devious route through Bramshott, so will risk the A3, what if it's a family with young kids? and also it's lazy and deceitful of the Highways Agency to finish off their flagship new Cycle path like this and still take credit for installing a cycle path to Liphook, which they have failed to complete!!! Let's see if our local MP will dare ride the line! (I'm betting he doesn't)

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - H (29th Aug 2013 - 11:02:54) Regarding the underpass it is not a BOAT byway open to all traffic, it is classified as a public right of way for horses and walkers, the MOD can use their vehicles on what is essentially their own land without needing extra permission. In practice I have telephoned the MOD to discuss this and their opinion is that although not legal for bikes they will hope everyone eg horses walkers and cyclists can co exist peacefully for non motorised recreation.

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Dewy (29th Aug 2013 - 16:01:50) Dave: Thank you for pointing out the scenic route, I am familiar with it. I’ve tried many routes just to avoid drivers’ poisoned attitude…There are many possible detours. Part of the reason such green lanes are dangerous is poor road surface and encroaching vegetation forcing cyclists away from the left – then they get abused by impatient ignorant drivers… The point is that there is no coherent safe cycle path along the A3. If sensible cyclists are excluded from the A3, then they must be officially told so. Still you honestly believe cyclists should be banned from the roads AND pay road tax???? Fascinating!! Tony: If any help, I don't think you are the only one to be abused by that specific farmer. Public access is very vague around in this area. The only time in my life being accused of trespassing…Should that farmer bothered to properly arrange signage (where access is allowed, NOT just where NOT allowed) he might have had some time off cyclists watch to go do some farming!!

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - dave (30th Aug 2013 - 07:04:00) Dewy, don't you think you have pedalled this thread too far now, you have lost the argument, the a3 is a potentially dangerous major road in the country and, Like motorways, cyclists should be barred from using it end of!

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Phil (30th Aug 2013 - 10:44:40) I've received an initial and brief response from Damien Hinds' office as follows: Thank you for your message. Mr. Hinds will raise this in the first instance with the Highways Agency and report back to you in due course. Kind regards, (I've removed the email senders name, presumably his PA) As before, I will post any further responses as soon as they are received.

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Dewy (30th Aug 2013 - 17:57:48) Phil: Thank you very very much. Looking forward to read future developments on this thread. and Dave, oh Dave: I will leave it to those who can read and actually make sense of the thread above, as for which of us had lost their argument. My argument was that the A3 isn't safe cycling and no authority should take pride in this. Your argument was that all cyclists are trouble; they must keep off the roads AND pay road tax... I do however agree with you on two accounts: Rectory Lane is pretty, and that it should be end of between you and me- you won.

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - dave (30th Aug 2013 - 18:12:04) thanks dewy, i knew i'd win you over!! lol! Happy cycling!

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Sarah (30th Aug 2013 - 19:45:01) Dave, liphook has a great cycling community and we live in a beautiful part of the world for riding. If you can't beat them join them!! And it's good for your health and well being. It can even reduce stress levels and blood pressure!! Just saying!! 😉

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Finchie (30th Aug 2013 - 20:06:24) Great work Phil. I'd love you to get Mr Hinds out to experience it. Will there be a "no drafting" rule ? Sorry cyclist joke, but for motorists it translates to a bumper sticker "if you can read this you're too close" ! Matt, it's worth exploring all routes so good idea to write to others. Dave, your point about the A3 being a dangerous road is a good one, worse than motorways for that stretch as there is not even a hard shoulder. So why did they even bother to do 90% and then not finish. Minister for common sense must have had his day off ! (I don't need an answer btw as I promised not to feed the troll ;-) I was going to double check whether the gate was locked, but I've got a better idea ... I'm going to go back to what I've always done before, duck under the underpass before the old BMW garage, down the hill (near the Edge), past the fishing lake, stop in the pub on Hewshottt Lane and chill out ! Its a much nicer route, and I might live longer (or at least until the liver goes). Job done. Happy weekend and look forward to seeing those that are so inclined out on the bike - just going to check the weather now. Not long now before it gets colder and darker just to cheer you all up ! Cheers, Finchie

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Dewy (15th Sep 2013 - 17:37:25) Happy news, 90% of the stretch had now been cleared. Thanks Dave! ;)

Re: A3 Cycling Impassable - Phil (25th Sep 2013 - 22:29:58) I have now had a response from Damien Hinds, in turn which is a letter from the Highways Agency. As the letter is in PDF format I can't post it here, but will give the salient points as follows: 1. The current cycle path south of Hindhead was installed as part of the tunnel works 2. The boundary of the Hindhead works extended to the Canadian War Memorial, no further 3. The termination of the cycle path at the War Memorial was in the original plans, which went to public consultation and was not challenged 4. Thus the cycle path ends at the War Memorial as the tunnel works didn't extend further than that 5. The Highways Agency are aware of the issue, and if funding was identified in the future they would look at this matter further We'll all I can say is I'm surprised they even joined the tunnel to the existing A3 with that approach! We therefore have the unusual situation that the new cycle path terminates by joining a main A road, and that's by design!

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