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Anti Social Behaviour - Joanne Short (20th Jul 2008 - 22:09:40) Hi there Just moving into the lovely village of Liphook and a bit worried about the notices around Sainsburys about anti social behaviour?? Have also come across some litter bug youths on the recreation ground?? Is it a big issue ?

Re: Anti Social Behaviour - claire (21st Jul 2008 - 08:37:50) Hi Joanne and welcome to Liphook. As with any place we have an small percentage of people who believe they are above the legal and social rules that help form a community. The litter on the rec is always worse in the summer months, on the whole this does not appear to be bloody mindedness ......more your average forgetful kids who have been playing football or similar on the rec and wander off leaving empty drinks bottles etc. If you catch them doing it they are usually suitably sheepish and apologetic and happy to post it in the bin! I must add that it is not always the kids though, I had to ask a gentleman dressed in white trousers and a blazer (looking very much like a bowler) to pick up the two empty cigar packets he deposited in the car park, luckily he too had the grace to look suitably sheepish and was apologetic! Luckily most will grow out of this thoughtlessness (tho; the old boy in white trews is leaving it a tad late to change his spots!) As an aside - the ground staff at the rec seem to have pulled out all the stops this year it really does look well mown and trimmed, the bins are emptied more frequently and they usually manage to keep on top of the litter problem.(thanks guys!) Anti social behaviour - well for my two'penneth we will never see improvements (nationwide) until we bin the CPS and allow the policeman, with his note book to attend court and nail the little ******** and people stop hammering on about 'uman rites'. (I have just read my last paragraph and realise i have now officially morphed into my father!) So again , welcome Joanne and be assured that the 'good guys' well out number the 'bad guys' in Liphook

Re: Anti Social Behaviour - Dawn Hoskins (21st Jul 2008 - 13:02:07) Hi Joanne, There are many types of anti-social behaviour, such as: animal nuisance, begging, fly tipping, high hedges etc etc. We are very lucky in Liphook (and surrounding areas) and suffer mainly, but infrequently, from rowdy / nuisance behaviour. Usually over-excited teenagers having a good time without having the concept in their brains about noise etc [seems to apply universally to all teenagers!!!]. I would just point out a couple of innacuracies relating to the Crown Prosecution Service mentioned in the previous post. Applications for anti-social behaviour orders (ASBO’s) are considered by the courts in its civil jurisdiction - as they are civil orders. The CPS prosecutes serious criminal matters which have been investigated by the police. They do not prosecute minor cases. Problems with rowdy and nuisance behaviour are usually dealt with by issuing either fixed penalty notices (FPNs) or penalty notices for disorder (PNDs), this is because it is a low-level disorder offence. Sometimes ‘acceptable behaviour contracts’ (ABCs) are entered into - ASBO’s are only usually issued against the ringleaders of a group or if there is evidence of a more serious disorder. The most common way to deal with group anti-social behaviour is for the police to set up a ‘Dispersal Area’. Because of the past rowdy behaviour around the Sainsbury's store / Radford Park / Rail Station, a Dispersal Order is in place locally [Midhurst Road, Haslemere Road, Chiltlee Manor, Canada Way and Ottawa Drive]. This allows the police and community support officers (PCSOs) to disperse groups and return [using reasonable force] the ‘youths’ to their homes after 9pm. An anti-social behaviour orders is not a criminal penalty but a civil sanction, they will not result in any criminal record being created. However, [only] for funding purposes they are classified as criminal in order for legal aid to be attained. For this reason, the higher threshold of criminal proof is required [beyond reasonable doubt]. They are handed down by both magistrates’ and county courts when either the local authority or police make an application. It is the magistrate that will decide whether the individual has behaved in a manner that caused or was likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress, not the CPS. The criminal courts are only used when an order has been breached, as this then becomes a criminal offence. From April this year applications after a verdict has been given will be covered by the new Rule 50. These will be Crim proceedings in magistrates / Crown Court for civil behaviour orders on conviction. This is really only a procedural change but it does include a duty for the defence to disclose a.s.a.p. and not to wait for the verdict. I would also point out that The Human Rights Act has very little to do with whether magistrates hand out an ASBO or local authorities approve police applications for Dispersal Orders / Exclusion Zones. The Human Rights Act 1998 is a vital tool for protecting our basic human rights and fundamental freedoms and it is often attacked by people who don’t fully understand how it protects them by upholding principles of dignity, fairness and equality. An example of this would be the overturning of the UK system of rape victims being subjected to cross-examination in intimate detail by the [alleged] rapists themselves. We have very little crime in Liphook, and you can rest assured that you can feel safe to walk about at any time day or night. It is easy for people to feel intimidated by groups of teenagers, but they are local boys and girls, just having a laugh most of the time – a lot of them would be mortified to think they had intimidated anyone! There is very little to do regarding activity in the village and it is quite normal for young people to congregate with their friends – this is universal and not a problem unique to Liphook.

Re: Anti Social Behaviour - claire (21st Jul 2008 - 14:28:22) sorry - i should have made it clear that i was referring to my general lack of confidence in CPS. (If i wore a cap a would doff it, would walking slowly backwards with eyes averted suffice ?)

Re: Anti Social Behaviour - Dawn Hoskins (21st Jul 2008 - 16:18:04) I am interested to hear what it is you have against these barristers in particular.

Re: Anti Social Behaviour - claire (21st Jul 2008 - 17:09:25) sorry Dawn, I don't think that Joannes post and threads are the place for my very very personal and painful experiences to be aired. One thing we do agree on though (miracle??!) is that a high proportion of perceived anti social behaviour in Liphook is just kids being kids. Irritation is not what I personally class as 'anti social'. ( note I said personally so please see that as my opinion , not the measure of the law)

Re: Anti Social Behaviour - Eneida (21st Jul 2008 - 17:17:03) Blimey!!! I bet Joanne wishes she hadn't asked....welcome to Liphook by the way ;) Eneida

Re: Anti Social Behaviour - Allan (21st Jul 2008 - 17:49:53) Claire, I think you meant The Criminal Justice act. That's what stops policing being as effective as it was before it's introduction. Couple that with signing up to the European Human Rights Acts and you have the stagnant porridge that all law enforcement officers have to contend with day in day out If you doubt the truth of that; ask a policeman!

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