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Resignation of Parish Councillor - Barry Hope (7th May 2008 - 15:53:22) Hi all, Just in case you weren't aware, there is now a vacancy for a parish councillor after the shock resignation last week of Cllr Dr J Carne. He was one of the new councillors that were co-opted last May but has now decided to resign after the uproar and heated exchanges at the parish council meeting on Monday 28th April which were brought about by the events and upheaval surrounding the assistant clerk's resignation. Bearing in mind six long standing councillors resigned from the council a year ago and now we have a new councillor who has resigned after just one year’s service, there must be some real unrest in the council. Is there anyone that is brave enough to stand who has an independent mind, is prepared to speak up for common sense in the face of fierce lobbying and can withstand the rigours of intense and continuous battling for the cause. For more information see the parish councils website following this link

Re: Resignation of Parish Councillor - Stephen D (8th May 2008 - 09:26:56) How is a councillor "co-opted". I have no personal interest but my imagination soared ... Is it like press-ganging? Should I be careful around the Square at night?

Re: Resignation of Parish Councillor - Barry Hope (8th May 2008 - 13:07:11) Hi Stephen No, nothing like that, although it may seem like that at times. It is a process by which applicants for the vacancy are selected by the votes of existing councillors during one of their meetings. This process happens if there are not enough parishioners who write in to request a bye-election be held. There needs to be at least ten local residents writing in to request a bye-election when a vacancy occurs to ensure a bye-election takes place. I have a strong feeling that there will be a bye-election this time as I suspect more than ten people have written to request it. Mind you, I would still be careful around the square after 10pm ??? Regards Barry

Re: Resignation of Parish Councillor - Kathryn C (8th May 2008 - 15:58:48) Hi Barry Are you going to stand?

Re: Resignation of Parish Councillor - Barry Hope (8th May 2008 - 17:34:07) Kathryn I sincerely regret that I will not be standing this time due to some personal health issues which would prevent me from putting the fullest amount of effort into the role that it demands, this wouldn't be fair on the electorate. I fully intend, however, to maintain a very keen interest in parish affairs and, where I think it is relevant and necessary, to make public comment, ask questions and give opinions. Regards Barry

Re: Resignation of Parish Councillor - Dawn Hoskins (9th May 2008 - 13:40:48) Sometimes it is better to be on the outside – throwing stones in - than on the inside throwing stones out. Quite frankly, until the system hauls itself into this century and starts ‘to be seen to be’ acting in a fair and transparent way…i.e.: less secrecy, less ‘behind closed doors’ sessions less petty squabbling more accountability and higher standards regarding professionalism and general behaviour towards each other……..who is going to want to apply for the position? It seems that the newbies who want to change the system from the inside are unable to ‘break though’ the wall of stiff old school values – which are clearly not appropriate today in any public body. Get your house in order…….If those of you at the PC know who the rotten apples are – the only way to turn this around and gain respect from your parishioners is to get rid of them – it is bizarre that ‘the good guys’ are being forced out by such rubbish behaviour that is allowed to continue unchecked.

Re: Resignation of Parish Councillor - Finchie (10th May 2008 - 08:21:48) I've had half an eye on these goings in the Herald and on here on so have no idea on the personalities involved but a couple of thoughts ... While I admire the very polite public statements from various people - you are far too polite. Clearly there is playground behavior from OUR representatives. We should be told who they are - they should be given the opportunity to either change their ways or get off OUR council. I find it highly depressing that "new blood" steps forward, enthusiastic, wanting to make a difference, wanting to put other views forward, becomes clearly frustrated enough to resign. JUst as depressing, is those with experience resigning. Actually - forget about a second chance - I suggest we name and shame, boot off the council those that are the root cause of the problem - whatever "the problem" is - and start again. I suggest you have one last "behind-closed-doors" meeting to sort your problems/differences out a.s.a.p. Then let us know that all futher meetings will be completely open, no more secrecy, no more petty arguements - and get on with running the parish - and adding some positive value to the community. GROW UP. Just a couple of random thoughts to provoke and start a bit of excitement on the website :-) Cheers, Finchie

Re: Resignation of Parish Councillor - Eneida Nelson (10th May 2008 - 17:43:34) Finchie, I agree that this whole business sounds like a complete shambles and it's no way to run a Parish Council. I was appalled that the Assistant Clerk's resignation was used in a kind of 'name and shame' exercise in the local papers!! Shouldn't disagreements of this nature be dealt with by the Council's HR Department? I find it interesting that in The Herald, Dr. Carne lists as one of the reasons for his resignation, 'excessive arguements about minor procedural practices'. I'm assuming that procedural practices are the domain of the Clerk, so perhaps it's not just Councillors who are at fault. However, since nobody seems to want to tell us, the Parishioners, what is going on, who knows...probably six of one and half a dozen of the other.... Eneida

Re: Resignation of Parish Councillor - johnnie Wilkinson (10th May 2008 - 20:50:33) Tell me, i've been out of the loop for a while. Is Groves still effectively running the council by ordering the members to do everything he says? Last time I checked, he was dragging them kicking and screaming into the 19th century. And I applaud that level of dedication.

Re: Resignation of Parish Councillor - Barry Hope (10th May 2008 - 21:06:04) What we are witnessing now is the breakdown of the parish council because the clerk, assistant clerk and one or two long standing councillors consider themselves to be on a different level to everyone else and that therefore they should not be questioned. They all seem to have one thing in common and that is their belief that their opinions and beliefs are right at all times. Unfortunately, this comes across as extreme arrogance and the only thing it ensures is that the council are seen in a very poor light in the eyes of the public (regardless of the good work that most of them do for the village which is acknowledged, but is not the point in question here.) What needs to happen is for the Chairman, supported by the majority of sensible and hard working councillors, to realise this, be strong, and get a firm grip on the behaviour of the staff and councillors around him that are the route cause of the current fiasco. He knows who they are and he knows what is happening, it is nothing new and will certainly come as no surprise to him that the council is facing this nightmare. I tried to address it internally, shortly before I came off the council but without success due, I am absolutely certain, to the arrogant attitude and behaviour of the very same councillors and staff that are at the root of this current episode. Whilst the majority of councillors have a desire to serve the community and are trying very hard to do that and in most cases are succeeding admirably, they are being undermined by the attitude of those that I have mentioned, and there will be more to come I am sure unless firm action is taken now. On another note, but not entirely unrelated, since stepping down from the position of chairman and councillor I have been trying, under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, to get information from the parish council regarding decisions it may or may not have taken in relation to the expenditure of public money (as mentioned in the Herald). This relates to the question of compensation payments that may, or may not, have been made. The decision, if it was made, would have to have been made either just before or just after the time of the local elections last year. If they were made just before then I was not informed as chairman. If they were made just after the elections then I would not be in a position to be informed as I was no longer chairman or councillor. This is the reason why I have used the Freedom of information Act 2000 to try and obtain the details (if details exist). The council have stonewalled me and given various reasons why they cannot release any such information (whilst not denying they hold the information I might add). I therefore took the decision to follow the correct and legal route that any member of the public is entitled to take, and that was to complain, first of all to the council without success, and then to the Information Commissioners Office who have informed me the they will be investigating the case and the councils' reasons for not confirming or denying that the information exists and, if they do exist why they haven’t released it. Even now I am trying to do things in the right way and to follow the correct path and I will continue to do this whilst there is reason to do it. If a decision was made to pay compensation it’s not the amount that is important but the very fact that any public money was spent in this way at all. Don’t forget that any money spent by the council comes from your money that you all pay each year to the parish precept which makes up part of the council tax. I made my views very clear at the time it was being discussed that I would not agree with any such payment should it be suggested and voted on. because I considered it to be morally wrong and against my principals. I also questioned whether or not the council had the authority to be making a payment of public funds of this kind and was also concerned that the public would not be made aware of it as any decision would have been made in an exempt session (if it were to be made at all.) Please note, I am not saying that this decision was made as I do not have any evidence or proof that it happened. All I am saying is that I SUSPECT the decision has been made and that is why I am pursuing it through the Freedom of Information Act. We may have to wait a little while for the facts but I am working on it. Perhaps this may help you to understand why I am not flavour of the month at the council offices, why some councillors are still not speaking to me or even acknowledging me in public and why I was not co-opted back onto the council last year (due to some very fierce lobbying by those that didn't like me questioning their actions). All of this has involved in some way or other the actions of the same councillors that are behind the current fiasco. Doesn’t that just demonstrate that the appalling, arrogant attitude is still prevalent amongst certain sections of the parish council? Parish Council please note...... I have not referred to anything on this post that is not already in the public domain. Had it not been in the public domain I would not have said anything until I had some evidence of what I have asked for over the last year (if it exists that is!) and I have not broken any confidentiality.

Re: Resignation of Parish Councillor - Eneida Nelson (12th May 2008 - 20:20:05) Barry, Thank you for the explanation....the problem with the Council is now clearly understood and it's much worse than I ever imagined! From what you say, it appears that OUR representatives are either battered into submission or feel they have no alternative but to resign out of frustration. And this very unfortunate state of affairs is entirely the fault of 2 unelected public employees and their 'pet' Councillors....hardly democratic IMO. I'm assuming Mr. Croucher has refused to knuckle down to the powers that be, hence the 'immense stress' caused to the Assistant Clerk LOL! Why do people lose all sense of reality when given a little bit of power for too long a period? However, history tells us that nobody is indispensable and power doesn't last forever....all little Hitlers get 'Borised' in the end! Eneida

Re: Resignation of Parish Councillor - claire (19th May 2008 - 15:48:41) this is getting exciting........It has a touch of the Midsommer's about it! If John Nettles appears on the voters role - be afraid, be very afraid!!

Re: Resignation of Parish Councillor - Barry Hope (25th May 2008 - 19:27:41) Eneida Unfortunately things like this happen in any council from time to time. Fortunately, these situations usually resolve themselves eventually as more and more people (both inside and outside the council) wake up to the facts and take it upon themselves to put things right. This has already started to happen now that more people have seen the light and are gaining determination to sort it out. Knowing that they have the support from sensible and ordinary members of the public and, I would guess, from some of their likeminded colleagues on the council is very important. Let’s make sure that our support and appreciation is there for those on the council that are principled enough to take on this challenge. Best wishes Barry

Re: Resignation of Parish Councillor - Dawn Hoskins (25th May 2008 - 22:59:51) Hi Barry I agree with your sentiments entirely. The only problem is that because there is generally no communication with the public, I suppose due the parish council not wanting to expose themselves to the public (in an administration of the state way I hasten to add!). How are we as members of the public supposed to know who the people are that we are supposed to be supporting!! Until the parish council steps into this century and starts to act in accordance with the rest of society, like taking an active part in this forum for example, it is not possible for us to relate to them or build relationships of trust (or distrust) with them. I know that they are only doing things the way ‘they have always been done’, but that doesn’t mean they should not be changed to reflect the nature of communications in today’s world. We need to know who is doing what, and why, and how much it cost, and who is responsible, why things that we expected to happen didn’t and whether anything is being done to sort out things that have fallen through. All this – doing things in ‘exempt’ sessions is no way to go about things in this day and age. For goodness sake if Parliament can manage when they are televised almost 24 hours a day on The Parliament Chanel, then I’m sure Liphook Parish Council can manage.

Re: Resignation of Parish Councillor - Barry Hope (26th May 2008 - 18:06:42) Hi Dawn Although we cannot be totally certain who to support, it is more important that at the very least, those in the council who are trying to do the right thing know that that there work is recognised and appreciated by others outside the council and that they are actually making a difference, albeit slowly. As far as specific councillors are concerned I think we can safely assume that Barbara and Nikki are worthyu of support judging by their efforts, openness and opinons expressed on this site over the recent months. I would also guess that we would include Michael Croucher as he is evidently refusing to accept the party line (non - politically that is of course) and is questioning the process. Thats three councillors and I am sure there will be at least two, maybe three, more that are also of the same mind but have remained quiet so far. As I said earlier, it is important that those concerned (and they know who they are) appreciate that we, the members of the public, appreciate their efforts and are glad that they are prepared to fight and base their decisions on good old common sense and not on the protection of themselves or their circle. At the end of the day, they will reap the rewards in terms of the parishioners respect, confidence and trust. Best wishes Barry

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