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resignation of asst clerk - barbara Easton (23rd Apr 2008 - 16:34:14) There is an article in the Petersfield Post today, and comments have been published, which have been attributed to the resigning asst parish clerk. I know as new councillors, we were expressly warned not to make public comment about anything to do with parish business in Liphook. This silence does not mean we do not care about what goes on in Liphook or at the parish council, rather that we as UNPAID VOLUNTEERS have been abiding by the rules of confidentiality, which goes on after someone has left the parish council. This rule of confidentiality also applies to all parish staff, and I believe has to continue after resignation, as it does for all UNPAID VOLUNTEER COUNCILLORS. I am extremely surprised by these comments in the Petersfield Post, does this mean we as Councillors now can have a public say as a rebuttal of her comments? As I stress, being a Parish Councillor amounts to unpaid voluntary work. The part time vacancy is being advertised with a starting salary of 16k.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Sue (23rd Apr 2008 - 19:39:29) Barbara Oohh, seems just the job I am looking for. Thanks for the tip!!.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Barry Hope (23rd Apr 2008 - 23:14:28) Barbara I read the article in the Petersfield Post with a great deal of interest. The Assistant Clerk has resigned "very reluctantly" due to the behaviour of one councillor in particular. She declined to say who this was but stated that they were a long standing councillor, well that rules out 8 of the 12 councillors then as they are relatively new. This one councillor seems to be "undermining the credibility of the parish council" and that "this continues to let the whole council down." (I seem to have heard those words before somewhere!!) Could it be the councillor has been asking questions and maybe criticising the council, and if they are surely it is good that they are exercising their right to question, challenge and probe the decisions and or actions of a public body (it happens in parliament every day and is on the small screen for all to see). It is right that all councillors should have this approach, it prevents familiarity, complacency and compliancy and there are always two ways of looking at each argument. I do also find it very difficult to believe that any councillor, especially a long standing one, would suddenly decide to act in a way as to undermine the council just for the sake of it and for the entertainment!! Therefore, if you follow my logic, they must have had good reason to do whatever it is they are doing (and I have no knowledge of what this is by the way, I am just going by experience). You mention confidentiality and that you were "expressly warned not to make public comment about ANYTHING to do with parish business in public." I wonder why this warning was found to be necessary and who issued it or where it originated from. All councillors should of course be bound by confidentiality when it concerns matters discussed in exempt session whether they are paid or unpaid, and it is also right that this applies to staff. This is why, even a year on from leaving the council I have kept some things quiet due to respecting confidentiality. This should never however, apply to any discussions held in open public session which can and should be discussed with anyone in the community if a councillor sees fit to do so. I do hope your warning was not on a blanket basis as I would be very worried if this were to be the case. In any case, I would expect a councillor to have views, they wouldn't be any good at all if they only followed everyone else and never spoke up for what they believed in, even if it meant having an opposing view. Having said that, the fact that a member of staff decided to go public at all with her resignation I find curious. Surely a resignation is a private matter between her and her employer (the council), not one that should be given so much attention as was evident in the Petersfield Post. I get the distinct impression that it was meant that a message be given over to the public by the fact that it was even published in this way. It was also interesting to see that she made the comments that she did but refused to go any further, either by interview or adding to the statement. Dropping a hint and then letting people guess the rest does no good at all in my mind for the relationship between council and public and rather smacks of mind games. The Clerk however, who has always been very keen to stress the importance of confidentiality decided, it would appear, to do what the Assistant Clerk did not want to do, and add to her statement on her behalf by saying that the councillor in question was not the Chairman or the Vice Chairman, well that helps confidentiality doesn't it by narrowing it down to one of two of the remaining long standing councillors. Was this said without her knowledge or permission, if so this surely breaks confidentiality, or on the other hand, was it said with her knowledge and permission which means that they were working together on this press release? Either way, it doesn’t reflect well on the staff and actually demonstrates why there may be rifts between them and the council. He also seems to have had a hidden agenda in making his comments (dropping a little more hint and letting us guess a little more). There does seem to be a lot of double standards applying here. I suspect once again that this is all happening because the actions and decisions of the council and staff are again being questioned from various angles from within. As other posts on this site have commented in the past, is it any wonder that the council are being seen in a non-favourable light and that it is difficult to have confidence in what is happening if there is a distinct non-communicative approach being employed and that councillors are being told not to say anything in public about anything to do with council business (unless you’re the Clerk or Assistant Clerk of course). I just hope that the new councillors are astute enough to see through the protective cloak that has operated for far too long and to make their own minds up about what is right and wrong in relation to the response to public issues and even internal issues where this is the case. At the end of the day all councillors have to be accountable and should be able to justify any of the decisions taken on behalf of their parishioners. There has never been a truer saying... if a minor problem is not dealt with at the time it surfaces, you can guarantee it will return at a later date but when it does it will be much bigger and more difficult to deal with. It is also true that secrets will always reveal themselves at some point after the event and usually return to haunt those involved. Food for thought eh!! Best wishes Barry

Re: resignation of asst clerk - barbara Easton (24th Apr 2008 - 00:29:00) I do wonder why this press release has happened now- Is it really big news in Petersfield that a part time assistant clerk in Liphook has decided to resign? Is it possibly timed to be off-putting to prospective employees? No job is perfect but I am sure the lack of commuting is a big incentive to applying for the job. I am sure that there are plenty of suitably qualified local applicants, some knowledge of local government, ability to type properly, and use a computer are the main criteria I believe in the job description.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - liz (24th Apr 2008 - 11:30:23) It would seem that accusations of secrecy by our Parish Council could have more than just a ring of truth to it. I know that the councillors are, as has been stressed several times, unpaid volunteers but they are OUR representatives spending OUR money and with significant influence on OUR environment. This should not be a secret. This is not intended to be attack on all our Parish Councillors, most of whom seem to do an excellent and time consuming job on our behalf. I get the impression there is a certain element who is/are not prepared to explain or cannot justifiy their views and hence want things kept quiet.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - bill mouland (24th Apr 2008 - 11:52:59) It's not exactly the Da Vinci code is it? There are only three 'long standing' councillors and as Mrs Haussauer publicly thanks two of them - the chairman Dr John Tough and vice chairman Anna James, that only leaves Michael Croucher. As for Cllr Easton's comments, I am particularly struck by the sentence which states: 'I know as new councillors, we were expressly warned not to make public comment about anything to do with parish business in Liphook.' Blimey, she makes the place sound like Zimbabwe.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - nikki (24th Apr 2008 - 14:27:13) Front page of the herald today?! I think an article on the need for a serious review of our local roads would have been more appropriate given the awful fatal accident in Lynchmere. Things really do need to be put into perspective. It's been a year since the young girl tragically lost her life at the junction in passfield and a year on some of us are still fighting for a speed reduction. Whilst others wish to spend their time creating unnecessary slanging matches the rest of us are trying to fulfil our roles of which we were elected/co-opted. It is not fair that only a select few are allowed to release statements. I shall go back in my box.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Dawn Hoskins (24th Apr 2008 - 14:28:44) All this talk about confidentially drives me mad! I can understand it if you are talking about parliamentary privilege or legal advise privilege, but are we to really believe that proposed plans / proposed ideas / current plans / plans turned down etc etc …… that affect our lives as residents of this parish are all secret??? Is that really what is being said here? Have I suddenly been picked up and put down in the middle of a despotic totalitarian regime where we have no rights to information whatsoever!!!!! If that is the case then the system is more rotten than I originally thought. I would appreciate it if a councillor / past councillor could confirm to me exactly what is supposed to be kept away from the public eye and exactly whey this is necessary. Please post

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Freddie Dawkins (24th Apr 2008 - 14:29:30) Haven't seen the story yet, but be careful Bill. As your wife is Jenny Mouland and a journalist working for the Herald (and I believe you used to work/do work as a journalist for the Daily Mail?) for many years now, and Jenny sometimes writes or sub-edits stories covering the Parish Council, you both don't want to be seen to be getting dragged into this and acting impartially by naming a particular Councillor. Just because it's reported that Ann Haussauer said something to the Post, doesn't mean she did. When I was on the Parish Council, I spoke to several journalists when they asked me about particular stories. What appeared in print wasn't always what I'd said. I should know, I'm a journalist! As for Councillors being warned about making public comments - I'd like to know who warned them. There's no rule about this as far as I know. Yes, you have to keep a lot of stuff confidential (as Barry says) but that doesn't mean you say nothing. If Ann really did say what's been reported, she's probably regretting it now!

Re: resignation of asst clerk - barbara easton (24th Apr 2008 - 15:17:44) I understand that the comments made in the Petersfield Post have been repeated in the Liphook Herald and additional comments made. These comments have not been made with the knowledge of all 12 councillors, these are personal opinions and not a Parish Council press release. I understand that there has been reference made to "Stress of the job". This is an overused term and everybody copes differently with different levels of stress. What is stressful to some people is not stressful to others, and I do not think possible applicants for the job should be put off by thinking the Parish Council is a terrible place to work. A job and the inter personal relationships within that working environment are what you make it, those who have a moral objection< for arguements sake >with war, should not be working in the weapons factory. someone is bullying you that is different. An example of stress for me personally happened in 2006 and is still ongoing even today. As was reported in the Herald at the time, my husband died outside at home in an accident with a mini tractor. My world collapsed. He was running his own business with no partner only staff who did not help. The police treated me as an immediate suspect and questioned me all day even although I was in shock. His bank froze all banking immediately as he was the only signatory. He was over extended on loans to the effect that with loans and different mortgages he owed 1 million pounds, not all covered by insurance. I was immediately expected to take on the running of his business even though he had deliberately kept me out of it. I have no children so had to deal with everything myself, in two days I dealt with police inquests, funeral arrangements my family descended from afar so I had to look after elderly parents as well. The staff were not supportive, they staged a walkout as I could not guarentee them their positions. The business was not local so I had travelling to do. In that same week I had to try and effect the sale of the business in order to secure my own financial future. As the staff had walked this was not possible. The people I thought would help did not. I survived due to good personal friends' help only that. As well as business stress I had to deal with the effect on me of losing someone in an accident, there is no closure and only people who have lost someone that way will understand that. Even today, two years later I am still getting phone calls-today was one from the inland revenue regarding the business I closed 2 years ago, saying money is owed. Stress is when on the day of my husbands funeral, I got a call from the building society to say as the mortgage had not been paid off I could lose my home. Stress is trying to get work after being out of the job market and being rejected for being too old. I even had one employer ask me on the phone before interview how old I was. Stress is not having enough money to keep a roof over your head or food to eat. I am not relaying my personal details for sympathy but I think that although working in the Parish Office is not always a " Walk in the Park " it should be taken as part of normal working life to not feel happy with every aspect of employment, and certainly should not make front page news.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Barry Hope (24th Apr 2008 - 20:18:37) Barbara, It must have taken a lot of courage to reveal the amount of detail about yourself as you have done in your post and I for one can empathise with you as we have also experienced real stressful situations in the past and I am experiencing one of the worst right now, without going into details. I am impressed and heartened by the fact that you are prepared to stand up for common sense and, it would seem, champion freedom of speech. Councillors should, and must, be free to speak on any issues they like to whomsoever they like, providing by doing so that this does not contravene the exempt session rules. It also begins to foster respect and trust because you are honest and open with the parishioners (as demonstrated on this post). I think that a lot of questions will be asked over the next few weeks and you can already see that just from the postings on this site, let alone the discussions that will inevitably be held in the public arena. I will be very interested to see which councillors are prepared to follow your example and put the interests of the parishioners first, as opposed to the others who will close ranks and protect the privileged inner circle at all costs, even if that means making another councillor a scapegoat and throwing them to the wolves in order to achieve it. The most important thing is that parish life will go on as you say and attention should be paid to the important local issues. The Clerk and Assistant Clerk have already demonstrated where their priorities lie by making this issue so public and making it obvious to all who are interested who they think is to blame for all this. If they want to blame anyone at all for the current mess, they couldn't do any better than look towards themselves and their closest allies who blindly offer unswerving support whatever the issue. By their overtly public criticism quoted in the press they seem to consider themselves to be of a higher echelon compared to mere councillors and the public. They seem also to have missed the simple fact that their positions are as paid employees and only that. They are not elected members of the council. Please keep the up the common sense approach, it’s so refreshing and about time somebody saw the light. Regards Barry

Re: resignation of asst clerk - bill mouland (24th Apr 2008 - 20:46:14) Well done Freddie. You got at least one fact right - Jenny Mouland is my wife. Oh, yeah, and I freelance for the Daily Mail, The Times, The Daily Telegraph and SAGA magazine. (Yes, really.) Oh, and here's an extra titbit, I was once a local government correspondent. If you were a real journalist, however, you would have found out that Jenny has been chief reporter of the Midhurst and Petworth Observer since last year and has nothing to do with the Herald. I'm afraid you let 'our' profession down even further with your ludicrous comment: 'Just because it's reported that Ann Haussauer said something to the Post, doesn't mean she did.' In front of me is a readily available copy of a Press Release on Bramshott and Liphook Parish Council headed paper which is headlined: Assistant Clerk Resigns from Parish Council. It begins by saying that after 13 years of continuous service Mrs Ann Haussauer has 'reluctantly resigned from her post as assistant clerk.' The second paragraph states: 'Mrs Haussauer stressed that she was not retiring and her resignation was very reluctant.' There then follows her quote about a long-standing councillor appearing to undermine the credibility of the parish council etc and her comment about 'unwelcome stress.' This was widely and properly reported by the Post and the Herald and no doubt will be by the Messenger. As for Councillor Easton claiming that this did not come from a Parish Council press release, perhaps she had better get down to the Haskell Centre and ask for a copy. Pip pip!

Re: resignation of asst clerk - nikki (24th Apr 2008 - 21:05:45) I did not get a copy of this press release either.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Freddie Dawkins (24th Apr 2008 - 21:27:24) Bill - Thought that might wake you up! You just couldn't wait to identify who the councillor...might be. Wonder why? You may, in fact, be wrong. You may also be wrong about the accuracy of the attributed quotes. Having just read the PR - which I find weird, coming from the Parish Office - I do wonder just what game is being played here? Delighted about Jenny's move - I'm sure the good folk of Petworth will appreciate her.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - barbara easton (24th Apr 2008 - 21:58:29) sorry yes obviously we mere councillors were not informed of this press release as we normally would have been told at the monthly meeting. This is why I am so surprised as the monthly meeting is on this monday at 8pm and we have not discussed this press release at all. Dear Dawn, I know that it is frustrating not being informed of what is going on but unfortunately, as evidenced by this Press release, not all information is available to us as councillors either! There is more money available to Liphook Parish for village projects if we become a "Quality" council, but because so many councillors resigned instead of standing for re-election last year this is not possible.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Phil McNamara (25th Apr 2008 - 10:36:00) Goodness, this one has certainly provoked an amazing reaction! Claims, counter-claims, confidentiality clauses and public rebukes. This was just Liphook Council we are talking about isn't it, not the Houses of Parliament? May I have the film rights, please?!

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Barry Hope (25th Apr 2008 - 11:01:10) Barbara You touched on another salient point in your last post when you said so many councillors resigned at the last election.. The question is, just why did so many long standing councillors resign at the same time. Do you think this was more than just a coincidence! I think not. By the way, I remember the question of quality council being discussed well over a year ago but the clerk advised there was nothing to be gained from this.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Barry Hope (25th Apr 2008 - 11:48:52) Barbara I take back what I said about the clerk advising that there there was nothing to be gained from being a quality council, it was discussed in a meeting (the clerk would have had some input in terms of giving advice etc to councillors prior to the discussion) of the council on the 20th Feb 2006 when I was Chairman. The relevant section of the minutes are given below: QUALITY COUNCIL SCHEME The Chairman referred to the booklet “A guide to becoming a Quality Council”, and that the Council were unable to participate in the scheme at the moment because less then 80% of councillors had been “elected”. The Chairman said it was a mandatory requirement to have 80% of members elected and that co-opted members did not count under the current scheme. He believed that the Council could easily qualify as a Quality Council once the Council had 12 elected members, and the Clerk completed his “portfolio”. This was not achievable until after the elections in May 2007. The Chairman asked members to note that the scheme was being reviewed by NALC (National Association of Local Councils). He felt that the Council should consider participating in the scheme once the review has been completed and when the outcome of the report was known, sometime after May 2007. The Chairman invited comments. Comments were received on the benefits of having a recognised benchmark to work against, the lack of tangible benefits to the Council and the electorate, that the legislation had been rushed, that minor rather than major changes should be made, the cost of the election process to meet the mandatory numbers of elected members, the election of members, that the scheme was waste of time because Council’s changed within their term, that the scheme was meaningless, and there was enough in place to ensure self-governance of quality. The Chairman said that the Clerk could respond to NALC along the lines of the comments that had been made. He suggested that an amendment should be made to include elected and coopted members. This was briefly discussed. The Chairman proposed that the comments be noted, and that an amendment be forwarded to NALC about including both elected and co-opted members in the scheme. In addition, the Parish Council should consider participating in the scheme once the review had been completed, sometime after May 2007. A vote was taken on the proposal. Decisions: The comments were noted; an amendment was to be sent to NALC as part of the review to seek inclusion of elected and co-opted members in the scheme. Clerk: The Parish Council would consider participating in the scheme once the NALC review had been completed, and sometime after May 2007. .......From memory, I don't think this has been considered since May 2007 or indeed whether a reply was ever received from NALC regarding the inclusion of co-opted councillors as this would probably cause problems as you would still need 80% of members to have been elected.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Sue W (25th Apr 2008 - 11:49:05) Have I got this right? A person has resigned, leaving her financially impaired, suffered stress and now public dissection of her character due to a Councillor questioning from within the running of council matters?? Some Councillors it would seem knew nothing about the press statement - so who did originate it and why? If it were from the Parish Councillors, I would have thought that to have been discussed at the next meeting, so the only other area would have been from a person in position within the council pay pocket? I think someone is playing games too Barry, but not just mind ones. A person has suffered from this. I understand Barbara's take - but in all respect your challenge was a Life one and not just a work one. They are different. I too have had experiences of both and the most hurtful was the work environment - the most challenging and character forming are the Life ones!! If the stress of the work place caused the need to resign, then going public will not help, as now you have a very public airing of the situation - unless they too are in the game.(but now out - so what would have been the point). The only other explanation I can see would be that the employee’s position was in question and resignation was the best option. I would like to clarify that I have no idea who this Lady is – so these are my own thoughts. If there is a genuine situation that caused the position to become untenable then full sympathy should go to the now unemployed. The rest of the business should be sorted out by full council, get to the bottom of it and reveal it to the public if there has been any misconduct or whatever!! This has a very similar ring to your previous claim Barry – do you think it connected or would this be another case?

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Barry Hope (25th Apr 2008 - 12:49:01) Sue, I appreciate your comments; let me say I have no wish to make comparisons as stress is different for each of us in different situations. I have experienced both and know that the effects can be devastating. Different people will view it in different ways and I have no desire to belittle the Assistant Clerks claim that she was suffering from stress. What is relevant in this case however, is the reason for that stress. She decided to make the comments she made and must have known that by going to the press that it would invoke public comment (by the way, it wouldn’t have gone to press if she hadn’t agreed to it being issued by the parish office). All I am doing is responding by public comment (the same as anyone else), I am not playing games (if that was what you were inferring). Quite simply, I believe that we should not be too quick to judge that the councillor is to blame, but to keep an open mind on the subject as there are always two sides to any story. I will not comment on who I think the councillor is or exactly what he or she has done to undermine the council (there may be others involved for all I know). But what I will comment on is that, by personal experience, I know there are some very persuasive people on the council who are well practiced at keeping the council's image intact and ensuring that others toe the line regardless of the right of the public to know. I really don’t know if it is connected with my situation last May but I would suspect that it may be a very similar situation. One thing I have just thought about is if the other councillors knew nothing about the press release (it’s not even on the agenda for Mondays meeting I believe) then it shouldn’t have been sent from the parish office. If it was issued from her personally then it should have been sent from her home address. It worries me greatly that decisions can be taken by the clerk or assistant clerk to release information without any reference to the councillors whatsoever.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - barbara easton (25th Apr 2008 - 14:55:55) Dear Sue, the stress issue for me is both work and personal, as not having employment, and looking for work without obtaining work is more stressful. At least by having employment there is regular income, to pay bills. I cannot say to people sorry I know my husbands business owed you money but hey your baliffs at my door are welcome, chasing money which I personally did not borrow- they do not just go away at 5pm. Stress at that level is probably unimaginable for you, the week my husband died a Bank phoned me at home demanding repayment of a 10,000k equipment leasing loan for his business, when someone dies you inherit their debt along side any thing they may have. AT least at work in an office, your boss can let you have time off when someone dies. I personally do not think that that just because we do not all agree on issues that the parish council is in turmoil as the paper suggests. We are 12 very different councillors, it is not political at Parish level so we do not have to vote or think along party lines.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Sue W (25th Apr 2008 - 18:10:17) Oh Dear Barry, I never suggested that you were playing any kind of game at all. In fact I would have thought it rather one in the bag for you that someone else has questioned the workings of council matters. Yes considering the situation she found herself in I wouldn't have gone to press either - but I am not her and neither are you. Its another situation that you are wiser after the event. Barbara I too never undermined your experience of stress, and clearly stated that employment 'stress' is different - minor if you like, compared to the challange you faced - but don't be too harsh to judge those employed either, working in an enviornment that clearly she felt could not continue would not have been a walk in the park. Like you say, you could not remove yourself from the situation, she could and having been in a situation myself, where nothing more than bullying by a certain member does take its toll, and at the end of the day, ITS JUST A JOB! I may not have had to deal with the exact situation of you, but have dealt with being faced with my life turned upside down by a flash by a situation I had no control over, the prospect of a partner (not current) being takenaway for an unknown amount of time, and would have to keep a young family, home and support network for others together with a job. I did not crack, knuckled down, assessed the problems, made enquiries (that I probably would not have asked before), got the contract from a company, set up a cottage industry, continued to work 9-4 5 days a week, worked my butt of evenings and weekends, had a wonderful network of outworkers, drove a new car off the forecourt of a garage to do the work, and had 2 very successful years. It may sound easy to you but required flying by the seat of my pants for a number of weeks and many, many hours of worry. As for emotional stress from death, that is another sujbect - one which is very private and which I hope no-one else would have to deal with. I survived, so have you, so too will the ex assistant clerk. Happy days

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Barry Hope (25th Apr 2008 - 18:59:15) Sue Your comments are appreciated, i just wasn't totally clear about exactly what you were saying. It's probably me having a senior moment.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Bill Ratcliffe (25th Apr 2008 - 21:08:15) Hi Speaking as one of the ex-councillors who did not stand for election last May part of my decision not to stand was the bad feeling, emotional blackmail, the ever-present threat of consequences if confidentiality was broken and the incredible way the council were dealing with compensation matters which I strongly felt were being handled in a secretive and unprofessional manner. A bright spot was always the help and support that I received from Anne.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - barbara easton (26th Apr 2008 - 01:40:44) Dear sue sounds as if you have had it tough also, and I admire you for your hard work, but it sounds as if you must have had access to a car and a telephone to obtain your contracts, as my car was under my husbands finance agreement this went. Also, because everything was so complicated, the phone was constantly having to be answered -a business does not just end because someone dies, income had dried up the debtors still remained and I was the one everyone turned to to sort it out. The staff were all on three months notice contracts this I was expected to find, and also redundancy payments, they were entitled to this, even although the business was closing. I am not decrying what you did, far from it. but I have not got room to post every thing that happened. Dealing with the practical things after the death would have been easy were it not for the fact I was not in a fit state to drive anywhere. It sounds as if you had it tough but dont forget I also had the million pounds worth of debt left to me to sort! Income of£50 per week bereavement allowance which finished after a year does not even begin to cover it!

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Sue (26th Apr 2008 - 09:41:33) Barbara I do sympathise with you, and really this issue is not about either of us, but the resignation of (to me) a very minor worker, within the very odd building run buy some odd characters, seeming to to odd things! You are still hurting, that is obvious but trust me, there will be someone out there who has had it worse!! Yes, I did have a phone etc, and perhaps that was my good fortune and foresight to act before it was too late. I understand that this would not have been available to you. On the other hand, you could have been left extreamly comfortable upon his death, if it wasn't (as you have said) in such trouble/mess. Thats the risk in business. PS If you are still looking for employment - why not apply for the Clerk position, to me you seem to have more than credible experience and to quit and unpaid position to work must be a better option. Best of luck

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Barry Hope (26th Apr 2008 - 11:14:19) Bill, Good to see that you are also prepared to speak out, I was beginning to think it was just me that held those views. I also suspect that there were some decisions taken by other councillors around the time of the local elections held in May 2007 of which I was never notified as Chairman, no doubt because they knew my views on the issues concerned would have opposed them and that I would have created a problem. It would be really interesting to hear any views from other ex-councillors !! Best wishes Barry

Re: resignation of asst clerk - barbara easton (26th Apr 2008 - 16:01:35) the press release given out by the Parish OFFICE not COUNCILLORS is now on the parish office website. This was dated 22nd of April. As the petersfield post must presumably go to press on the same day or earlier, this means the press have had knowledge of it since at least Tuesday. I did not recieve my copy of this until Friday 25th in the post. Is this right we knew nothing about it? Who decided to speak for everybody? The assistant clerk actually wrote two resignation letters which I knew about by early march. Why go public now with her reasons?? why wait so long before advertising her job?

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Barry Hope (26th Apr 2008 - 16:54:53) Barbara, That's a lot of questions for the councillors & staff to answer. Seems like history is repeating itself. I questioned the rights and wrongs of the office regime and look where that got me. It seems that at least one other councillor was, or is, doing the same thing and look what it's getting them (re: assistant clerks comments). Be careful Barbara, with so many questions I would lay bets on you being the next target of the elite within !! It's almost as if the actions of the office staff have been planned between them with military precision (with support from their unquestioning supporters I'm sure) to inflict as much damage as possible on those that dare to speak against them. Don't ever let yourself be put down by those that would do well to take a leaf out of your book.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Dawn Hoskins (27th Apr 2008 - 12:01:18) Barry, As a 'Newbie' here - I do not know your story - but in light of what is now happening I would like to know. Not out or morbid curiosity but as a matter of public interest. As a parishioner being represented by this council I would like to have faith in their ability to ‘run themselves’. If this is actually not the case then we could have a complete crisis on our hands here – I mean - if the current councillors were to resign as a result of all this bad publicity – you can bet your wages that there would not be enough interest from locals to fill their shoes. What would happen then?

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Phil MN (27th Apr 2008 - 17:28:21) Quote: "... if the current councillors were to resign as a result of all this bad publicity – you can bet your wages that there would not be enough interest from locals to fill their shoes." I feel this says it all, really.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Dawn Hoskins (27th Apr 2008 - 18:36:38) Phil What does it say though? a) we should put up with a bad lot because they are the ‘only’ lot ie: better the devil you know b) We should stomach the consequences of flushing out bad pennies The problem is that this has only had “Half an airing” We know only rumour and gossip about potentially damaging in-fighting and back-biting. All the time it is swept under the carpet we only think the worst because that is human nature (if there is no problem there is no need to hide anything). Can you expand on your point please?

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Sue W (28th Apr 2008 - 09:17:48) I don't know what Phil's take is - I would say, there is at least one candidate that should put themselves forward.....

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Barry Hope (28th Apr 2008 - 17:46:10) I don't think I will be able to make it to the PC meeting tonight at 8pm so if anyone else is attending I would be very interested in any feedback if any discussions or questions were raised on this subject, either by the public or by councillors.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Barry Hope (28th Apr 2008 - 18:07:20) HI Dawn I am not ignoring your question to me. I need to think carefuly about that and what, when and how any information can be given.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Phil MN (29th Apr 2008 - 11:43:50) Hi Dawn Apologies for the delay in replying (work pressures, etc). My comment was not meant to be flippant in any way, more a lament over the current situation. It is disappointing that any business has to be conducted in this way (i.e. newspapers, internet forum) as it is not addressing the root of the problem (in my personal opinion). However, a better question for me would be how should this be addressed? I am hardly expert on Council matters so am gauging my reply accordingly. However, on one hand we have a pretty much public debate raging, that includes various remarks that may, or may not be, true. It would therefore be useful to somehow substantiate the issue and associated factors. Then, an informed discussion could be held more openly, with accountability for written or verbal material inputted. However, I am equally mindful that somewhere in this an individual has ceased in a particular job role, and various legislation exists to protect the interested parties. This debate may even be contrary to that legal protection. The individual involved may have to consider if they wish a more public and open debate and the implications of that, set against the obvious ramifications if a less public and somewhat covert debate rages unchecked. Some points of clarity that must be considered with my response: (1) I do not know the individual in question, (2) I am not expert in Council matters, (3) We are equally entitled to our opinions and contributions in the debate regardless of Council experience, and (4) I would not consider holding a Council post as my day-job is far too challenging to permit either the time or energy (and may in fact be more rewarding for a number of reasons!). The above is written rapidly, therefore if when considered in more time than was afforded to its creation and further clarity is required, please do let me know. Best wishes, PMN

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Phil MN (29th Apr 2008 - 11:51:08) Missed one point in my last post ... If they haven't already done so, the Council themselves should move to rapidly either shore up their position on the matter, or establish an emergeny forum in which to vent public opinion and take questions. Either way, they should demonstrate some accountability in their next actions on this matter, offset against any legal or regulatory implications that they - or the individual - are encument to behold. Or in other words, bring this to a successful conclusion for all involved, and do so promptly. Just to reiterate - I don't know anyone on the Council so not attempting to be smart or intuitive with comments!

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Barry Hope (30th Apr 2008 - 14:25:57) Any news from the PC meeting on Monday night? Was there further discussions?

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Mike Grimes (1st May 2008 - 00:33:47) I'm sure there was but, no doubt, in the exempt session.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - bill mouland (2nd May 2008 - 12:51:22) The silence is deafening. Fortunately a copy of the alleged minutes has found its way into my possession. Minutes of a meeting of Bramshott and Liphook Parish Council at the Haskell Centre on April 28, 2008. Chairman’s Announcements. The chairman said everyone was welcome as long as they weren’t beastly to the assistant clerk. Apologies. No comment. Matters arising from the Minutes of the last meeting. Cllr A Nonymous queried whether the minutes should actually be called hours because everything took so long. The chairman said that jokes could only be authorised by an appropriate member of staff and then made in exempt session. Declarations of Interest. None in the slightest. Committee reports. Finance and policy. Nothing adds up. Recreation. The grass is growing in Radford Park. Planning. Bohunt Manor is to become a super casino. Village Appraisal. The flowers look nice. Heritage Centre. That’s history. Public Participation. The chairman asked if any members of the public had any questions. 1st Member of Public: ‘When does the film start?’ The chairman said films were held in the Millennium Hall. The last one was called: ‘The Assassination of Michael Croucher, correction, Jesse James, by the coward Robert Ford,’ and had proved very controversial. 2nd member of Public: ‘I only came to see the nurse.’ The chairman said the Liphook Surgery was just across the road and would be open in the morning which was not far off by now if he didn’t mind waiting. Parish Plan. Apparently there is one. Crime Forum. There is no crime in Liphook. Exclusion of members of the public and press. The council resolved to exclude members of the public and press as it was likely there would be something interesting coming up. Items classified as exempt. Classified. The meeting ended at 03.30 hours.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Barry Hope (2nd May 2008 - 16:44:43) There are none so blind as those that will not SEE. There are none so deaf as those that will not LISTEN and there are none so dumb as those that will not SPEAK. These three descriptions would seem to fit certain people on the council (I am not saying all) quite well. We have some councillors that just refuse to SEE what is happening around them, no matter how obvious and close at hand it is. Some long standing councillors seem to be as deaf as proverbial doorposts when it comes to LISTENING to people who have in the past, and are still presently, trying to point out how badly some councillors and staff are behaving. Then finally we have some councillors, some old and some new, who can SEE very well that what is happening around them is farcical, HEAR loud and clear the complaints from various sources, and yet decide to not SPEAK up and to stay dumb hoping that it will all go away some time soon. Your post was very amusing, but I fear it is just the way that people do see the council at the moment. It is a shame that, as in so many cases, a good thing for the majority is spoilt by the selfish actions of a minority contingent of two or three councillors and staff who, for reasons that only they know, are following their own agendas. I am positive that the majority of councillors are getting really fed up with this ridiculous behaviour and I really do hope that they can find the strength of purpose to sort this out before they become the total laughing stock of Liphook.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Barry Hope (2nd May 2008 - 18:37:28) By the way, Those who have read the Liphook Herald would get the impression that Bill Ratcliffe had been asking for information under the Freedom of Information Act 2000. This was incorrectly reported and in fact should have read that it was myself who had been attempting to get the information. I subsequently wrote and complained to the Information Commissioners Office who have informed me that they are investigating the case and I am awaiting their reply.

Re: resignation of asst clerk - Eneida Nelson (2nd May 2008 - 18:40:22) Well this seems to be an extraordinary situation...all we hear and read are innuendos and tantalising 'bits' of information about what the Council/councillors/clerks have/haven't done/plotted to do etc. ad nauseam...and I for one, am getting sick and tired of it. Could someone please tell us simple Council Tax payers, who aren't part of some inner circle 'in the know', what on earth is going on.... Eneida

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