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Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Chris Taylor (7th Apr 2008 - 12:03:14) Interesting to see that a massive development could take place here. I wonder if this could impact any decisions with respect to Bohunt Manor (at least 30% of all of this eco town building has to be "affordable" housing). www.planningportal.gov.uk/... ...Bordon-Whitehill, Hampshire: 5-8,000 homes on a site owned by the Ministry of Defence. A significant number of ex-MoD homes are already on the site, west of Whitehill-Bordon...

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Dawn (7th Apr 2008 - 16:57:43) I think I must have been living on the moon recently. I saw this on the National news the other day and it was the first I have ever heard of it? Thousands of Eco homes in a new Eco village – just around the corner……. I do hope they are also planning to build an Eco Doctors, Eco dentist, Eco school, Eco hospital, Eco train station etc..etc… I wonder why this has been kept so quiet locally?

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Eneida Nelson (7th Apr 2008 - 17:23:05) I remember reading a little while ago, in one of the local newspapers, that there was talk about re-opening the old railway station in Bordon ...... Eneida

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Niall G (16th Apr 2008 - 14:41:57) The prospect of an 'eco-town' on our doorstep does raise a number of questions - although from what I've gleaned from the press the announcement was of a long list of 15 possible sites, from which 10 would be chosen, and developed over time. The main points are probably around infrastructure and impact - as usual. If any decision goes ahead for Bordon surely it has got to be include the necessary medical, education, transport etc facilities, and not the normal fob off that happens with smaller developments? In this vein reopening the train station sounds like a great idea, as although the towns are supposed to be 'carbon neutral' I think this just refers to the houses themselves and not the extra cars that come with them. The other point is impact on the local area, and although Bordon is pretty 'tired' looking at the moment, and the Army leaving does represent an opportunity for some local investment, I do hope that this won't mean that other facilities ie local roads are log-jammed as a result of the build. As others have said, this might even also take some of the develoment pressure off of other local areas, like Bohunt Manor estate? Anyway, I will watch this debate with interest - some of the comments from Government ministers did make me smile, and verged on an open admitance to social engineering, which was pretty brave! They seem to have forgotton that we have been here before with the garden cities, Milton Keynes etc - but that's another debate!

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Sue (16th Apr 2008 - 20:53:35) Umm - I have thought about this. At first it sounded dreadful, but it could actually be the injection that is so desperately needed for the community, who have at the moment very little in relation to the population. The council already have plans for 2-5k homes - and as far as I can tell that's about it. The money will not be available to provide the facilities needed. If it does gain Eco status - the development (as I understand it), would be much more sustainable and organised, which together with the land available and those developments left vacant by the army, give a blank canvas for organised and well placed community buildings, shops, work, entertainment and leisure facilities. This is unfortunately what Liphook is deprived of. (Available space - but I'm sure Mr Cox & Co would disagree). There has been much talk of re-opening the Rail link for many years and before anyone gets too excited that decision should be made before any further development goes ahead. Otherwise they could find themselves with the promises and never the goods!! I know development will come to our area, hoping Bordon will be enough to keep them from Liphook - I very much doubt that.

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Dawn Hoskins (27th Apr 2008 - 12:53:59) I received a flyer informing me of a public meeting, however it was relatively short notice [held yesterday – Sat 26th in Conford Village Hall] and I was unable to make it. The flyer stated that not only would Bordon be developed but also Standford Grange Farm – which is adjacent to Evelyn Wood. Can someone tell me where this is? I have no idea! Also, did anyone go to the meeting – what transpired?

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Niall G (27th Apr 2008 - 19:59:28) 'I received a flyer informing me of a public meeting, however it was relatively short notice [held yesterday – Sat 26th in Conford Village Hall] ' ...so the usual standard of public communications then, too little, too late! I wonder whether the officals responsible were too busy with 'office politics' to get involved ;)

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - nikki (27th Apr 2008 - 23:22:07) the meeting wasn't a council one. it was organised by a residents association.

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Sue W (28th Apr 2008 - 21:11:21) I thought I saw notices to this meeting (conford) on boards along the roads in Passfield. The boards were quite small, with a lot of info on, and very hard to take in while driving. Tried to look today, but they have now gone.

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Dawn Hoskins (29th Apr 2008 - 14:31:12) I wonder if Conford residents have heard of this site?

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Sue W (29th Apr 2008 - 19:32:02) Dawn, I am sure some of them do!! In fact one resident was on the 'Save the P.O. group', and would have known the power and voice it gave. I saw his mug shot in the photo on the front of the Herald. I thought you had a similar site to this for Passfield - Nikki originated it, does that still exist, and did/does people use it?

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - nikki (29th Apr 2008 - 22:39:15) Yes, you are right Dawn, i did set up a website for Passfield before I became a Councillor, I thought it'd help my campaigning back then. However, with all the hats I wear, I couldn't dedicate the time to it after being co-opted, so another Passfield resident has bought the domain and set up a more professional site. The link is here www.passfield.org.uk They've done a good job on it I must say! Could do with some updating and maybe inclusion of meeting dates for the future.

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Stephen (1st May 2008 - 10:44:28) The official comment from DCLG was "the location will need an innivative approach to create a cost-effective high quality public transport service given the lack of rail access, a diffuse local development pattern and highway constaints". I am wondering what (say) £5,000 contribution per dwelling from the developers (£25m total) would pay for.

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Chris (26th Jul 2008 - 09:40:11) Did anyone got to the consultation event on July 24th?Does anyone know the extent of encroachment and proposals for infrastructure improvement, including access roads etc.? I had planned to go but was held up at work.

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Gill Barratt (27th Jul 2008 - 22:07:57) As a Hollywater resident who is campaigning long and hard about these proposals, let me give you some of the facts about these plans. EHDC wants to build 5 - 6,000 houses on the army land ... local residents voted against this when it was presented as the Whitehill-Bordon Opportunity in March. I posted to this site at the time. So the council have applied for W-B to be an eco-town, with 5,500 houses. These houses will be built of wood and will last for about 60 years. They cost about £30,000 more than a standard house. The majority will have no gardens such will be the building density. They will be built to eco level 4 - but all new build in the UK will have to be level 6 by 2016, therefore they will be cheap and nasty. 50% will be social housing, so the dregs of Portsmouth etc will be coming our way. The green land in amongst the army land will be classified as brownfield and built on as well. According to the council there will be an opportinity for better rail / road infrastructure, but I understand the railway station at Bordon has already been all but ruled out. Hallo Liphook - that means many more commuters travelling through Liphook. This affects Liphook and unless the residents start to look at the consequences for the village soon, it will be too late. A resident from Liphook turned up at the meeting on 24th and voiced this opinion - he asked why Liphook residents had not been consulted. A small action group will be presenting a petition to Parliament in October and we need as many signatures as possible. Please give some consideration to the facts of these eco-towns, and the likely impact on Liphook. If anyone wants more details or is prepared to hike a petition round, please let me know via this forum and I will arrange to get details / a petition to you. Please do not think this will be a good thing for this area. Gill B

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Chris (28th Jul 2008 - 11:50:34) Please see: easthants.gov.uk/ehdc... There are contact names and information at this site. I have written an e mail to Simon Beach who is the project co-ordinator (simon.beach@easthants.gov.uk) I have concerns, as a B3004 and Liphook/Passfield resident, about the extra traffic that will be evident from new housing plus the building services transport access that will be needed to get materials to the area. 5500 houses could mean double that number in cars many of which will need to park at or around Liphook to use the rail service there. There are no detailed plans or traffic surveys available on the website.

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Jan Rathbone (28th Jul 2008 - 11:54:30) Perhaps because we get The Messenger delivered, we have lots of information about the Eco Town stuff. There have already been a number of public meetings held in Bordon to which all and her friends were invited. I saw the writing on the wall when much of the MOD land was being sold off. One of the big questions is will a train station be added and which line will it operate? There was much debate about where the old one was and could that be opened again and where is it. We were told it was on....Station Road (made me laugh too), at the side of the fire station at the cross roads, but further down. Apparently there is now a small industrial estate on it, I think they said it was past the tip entrance. But the line could be opened up. Here's hoping. Now that would be a boon. You just take a good luck at what is happening around Bordon, builders are building new homes all over the place, I think it is a foregone conclusion that it WILL be a new, so called, Eco Town. Even the chemist in Bordon is going to be (if not already) a Boots the Chemist, now they don't do that for nothing.

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Sue w (28th Jul 2008 - 19:42:43) The proposed development will affect all local areas, but is it right to stop it because it may bring more to Liphook Station? I understand the concerns, but surely the campaign should be to force Bordon to have its own, and not for Liphook and Passfield to decide what happens in other areas where they do not reside. Many residents in Liphook up their value because of a rail link and pricier houses - probably on the verge of snobbery, while Bordon and Whitehill are very much played down as inferior. I know this by the very way people refer to Bordon - many will say its a place they try to avoid and prefer to travel further a field than go to the Forest Centre - in almost fear of their lives!. Something needs to be done in this whole area of the S & SE of England to provide better housing for those who are not London Professionals!. If the start is a timber home then what problem is that, there is a very nice Bungalow located in a special spot in Liphook that is timber framed and has a ridiculous price on its roof. Many homes have been built that way, not to mention the concrete homes built in about 4 sections. They stood standing for many years. Take the estate in Greatham and many in Alton. If it gives those who need a roof over their head then why should it be a problem to someone in bricks and mortar in Passfield. Many troubled families from the B & WH area together with LIPHOOK were moved to Alton, when they built the new council estate off Ansty Road, I know... we moved out before it was completed. Many were the hardship families that occupied the Cheader (I think that how it was spelt) homes that were alongside the A325 at Bordon, which is now the new council estate, with private sections. These were not all trouble families, some were the salt of the earth and far more genuine than some I know with 'loadsa money'. Bordon needs much more development of all kinds - especially basic facilities and leisure - without the eco Status they will get very little - only what the private sector will be willing to provide. Do you know, they only had one pub, due to the Army there, Liphook has a handful? There were 2 social clubs but now only one, a nightclub (!) and a converted officers mess. Not much for locals to enjoy. The only Pub in Whitehill is now closed and great thanks to the intervention of private business they now have their very first pub, which sells FOOD. The Woodlard - it may not be the Links or the Black Fox, but it sure is a big hit with all age groups in the area. It has great seating indoors and outside and is well worth a visit lunchtimes with the kids during the Holidays. Stop knocking people from trying to provide things for a large community (the largest in EHampshire, with the least facilities. Work with the planners and council with your ideas for the future and not petitions! I could go on, but it probably will fall on deaf ears! The Station was down Station road, where the industrial estate is now, near the Oakhanger communication centre. There are still parts of the rail intact at the back of the Whitehill Police station, which went under the road at the Whitehill Roundabout and on through the edge of the ranges towards Longmoor and onto Petersfield, in the other direction it went to Alton. My husband was born in Kingsley, and stood on their platform to wave the last train past. Quite a few years ago now! If you didn’t know, Whitehill part of the rail line was used in the original St Trinians film!! Queen Victoria stopped just before Greatham on her trip to Portsmouth, a stone plaque was on the common there for years (I think it was moved to a museum), but a very old and hollow oak still stands today to commemorate the event.

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Gill Barratt (28th Jul 2008 - 22:16:38) I appreciate the comments made by others regarding the proposed eco town. Let me assure you that residents have tried to work with the planners and voted overwhelmingly for 2,000 houses to be built. Unfortunately that did not suit the council who have twisted statistics and steamrollered the view of the residents. There is no promise of facilities!! It has been suggested by EHDC that facilities may come, following development. It seems definate that there will be a relief road running through the new eco town. New residents may have to pay an extra £500 per year for public transport (buses) on top of council tax and cars will be banned from the town itself, meaning they will have to be parked outside. The plans suggested by EHDC contravene the rules on eco towns but I am sure that W-B will be selected to be an eco town because it is the only bid throughout the country supported by the local council. There are many concerns about the bid, for example - where will the water supply come from? There are already problems with water shortages in Bordon and there are no realistic proposals for overcoming this. According to the bid, one member of every new household should be employed in Bordon. With 2,000 jobs being lost with the Army relocating, thats 7,000 extra jobs to find. Developers have still not been able to fill the industrial park by the Woodlark so where are these extra jobs coming from? Yes, Bordon needs development, but increasing the population by about 50% with no guarantee of any infrastructure to support that population is not the way forward. Lord Rogers (Labour peer and award winning architect) has branded the eco towns as "one of the biggest mistakes the government can make". The Local Government Association said they are "eco slums of the future" and claims that they are environmentally sustainable are a sham. Please have a look on the internet - Google Eco towns and read the facts. These proposals will have a negative effect on Bordon-Whitehill and the surrounding areas, including Liphook. We are not knocking development, we just believe the council should keep it in proportion and listen to the local residents.

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Chris (29th Jul 2008 - 08:32:28) The re-opening of the station at Whitehill is a must if the area is to accomodate 5500 new families and to provide transport links to new businesses and facilities. According to the EHDC website about the project this is "under discussion". EHDC's approach is one of obvious and almost excited support for the eco-town proposal; it is important that with such bias an objective approach is taken which includes consideration of the impact, adverse or otherwise, to nearby and already established communities; like Liphook.

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Sue W (29th Jul 2008 - 11:56:10) This issue - no matter how we debate it here, will have an outcome that no one wants - because you only have to look around and see decisions made by the appeal system that has been accepted. It is a cert that at least 2000+ homes will be built, so already the local settlements will be stretched. I am not too convinced that Liphook will suffer too much from people living in Bordon. What is there to offer - very little in jobs, one 'supermarket' a few good shops, a number of struggling ones. There is a drastic shortfall in Business ventures here - certainly not as much as Bordon has (even without the Army). A large portion travel to the Farnham and Petersfield areas- and to be honest when I used to take my stepson to a Station, from Bordon the easiest was Liss!. I am very sceptical of colourful words like slums, ghettos and the shipment of families from Portsmouth. How do these people actually know? It is only their opinion. If you agree with the proposals, just as much hype talk comes out about the good. Its just words. I remember reading the report about the introduction of a second supermarket in Liphook, that it would benefit All - traders as well as residents, initially yes it did stop the seepage of shoppers to Bordon, Haslemere and Petersfield - but now over time is it such a benefit to ALL? Things change and very little can be done if someone somewhere decides to do it differently - take Passfield Post office!. You also have to add into your expected (un substantiated) claims that B & WH will flock to Liphook, that Liphook itself is going to expand residents over the next 5 years too, and many of those will travel out of the village to work, because there is such little opportunity here. Already there are an increasing number from here shopping in Bordon, as they have Lidl, Wilkinson, Somerfield, Tesco banks, building society, Fresh Fruit and veg, a Boots (which by the way has been owned by Boots for quite a while - because they wanted to get into Europe and the chain they purchased was already there) perhaps they should be more concerned that the residents from Liphook will be descending upon them!. But I know they would welcome it and your money is as good as anyone else’s!! Its good to point out that the Passfield business parks offer a lot of employment to locals from both places, and perhaps they may decide to expand them again - which could cause you greater concerns - but on the other hand without them your local store would have shut months ago. Its about working together, not shutting doors on ideas or cherry picking your preferred option. I think the future plans of car free town centre will be many, many years ahead, and like so many proposals become unrealistic and fall away. You make it sound like a second inner London - which in all respects is too far fetched!

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Dawn Hoskins (29th Jul 2008 - 12:24:11) I have no idea where the old railway line used to run, but from the sounds of it is now demolished and has buildings on top of it. It will not just be a question of reinstating it – it will involve huge costs for South West Trains. After forcing the majority of commuters to drive to Haslemere to get to work (to avoid being stranded as no Liphook connection is available for most trains) SWT have come to the conclusion that Liphook Station is to be downgraded yet again! We will soon only have part time staff here and be served by machines that cannot issue group save tickets for families – mean-time the extra footfall at Haslemere means they get new platforms and a new bridge etc. The number of commuters from Liphook has not diminished – they have just been dispersed. It is also completely crap that there is no bus link from Haslemere to Liphook and the Taxi’s can charge a premium as they know you are stranded and locked out of an un-manned station with no access to toilets or a place to sit down. They only transport service between Passfield, Liphook and Bordon is a SWT bus. This is apparently a train and not a bus (according to SWT) so pensioners are not allowed to use their free bus passes on it. It takes only a circular route and takes 45 – 50 minutes to get to the station. It does not run in accordance with the arrival of trains at Liphook either!!??** I have not included the no 13 (Alton College) bus as it doesn’t run at weekends or after college hours or in the holidays so is completely intermittent. Journeys can’t be planned around a college timetable and neither should a bus route!! The sad fact of the matter is that sustainable transport links should be the prime focus of an ‘ECO’ town – not an ‘after thought’. The only way that people will change their attitudes to getting in their cars for every short trip is to provide good quality, reliable, clean and cheap alternatives. Leaving people stranded at cold and wet unmanned stations with nowhere to sit down or go to the toilet will NEVER be acceptable and no one in their right mind would chose this as an alternative to driving (unless forced to because they don’t have a car) Apart from the non existent (or existent but rubbish) public transport, what other means of getting from village to village is there? Pavements – NO. Streetlights – NO. Bicycle lanes – NO. Could someone please explain to me where the proposed sustainable public transport is. A town will never be environmentally friendly without it so it must be somewhere?????

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Ian Dowdle (29th Jul 2008 - 22:46:10) Dear ALL, I notice some incorrect information has been posted. In the absence of information, this is to be expected. The number of houses contained in the bid are 5k to 5.5k. News of the bid has been covered by, local/national press, BBC south today, local radio, and of course EHDC meetings. I fully support the Eco Town bid, and has the ability to put right some poor planning decisions, create a town with real heart when the army leave, and also deal with a number of future problems we all will have to face. The interest I see in these articals is encouraging, to answer the questions asked, we would need a public meeting, which I will push for. Ian Dowdle district councillor Whitehill Bordon

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Editor (30th Jul 2008 - 08:00:35) Caroline Flint, the Housing Minister, will be visiting Bordon today. Last week Mrs Flint announced eco-town bids would need to adhere to the highest green standards if they were to be successful. These standards include: zero carbon status across all the town’s buildings, including commercial and public buildings as well as homes 40 per cent of land within the town to be green space, at least half of which should be open to the public as parks or recreation areas Providing a minimum of 30 per cent affordable housing for social rent and to assist those struggling to get on the housing ladder Creating more options for travel and reducing residents’ reliance on the car so journeys can be made by public transport, walking and cycling Ensuring a minimum of one job per house can be reached by sustainable transport Locating the average home within 10 minutes walk of frequent public transport and everyday neighbourhood services Raising the standards for household waste recycling, construction waste, water efficiency measures and reduced pollution to level 4 of the Code for Sustainable Homes. I can't see the transport or job requirements being met. But we can bet the project will go ahead on a promise which will never materialise. Alan

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Chris (30th Jul 2008 - 08:42:47) Surely with all of that expectation and these demanding pre-requisites some regulatory precedent must be set. For example the way planning departments scrutinise loft conversions and extentions for conformity to plan through building regulations.

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Stephen (30th Jul 2008 - 09:01:55) Sorry to be the arch-cynic here but this eco-town stuff is just a way for the govt to dress up a number of "new towns" in order to achieve their house-building targets whilst playing off the critics with the weasel-word "eco" and riding roughshod over local planning authorities. How else would they achieve 50,000 (10 eco-towns of 5000 homes each) new homes without more serious protests.

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Sue W (30th Jul 2008 - 09:28:12) Dawn I totally agree with you over the Liphook debacle of train times and station. It only strengthens the point - why would development in B & WH increase traffic to Liphook for a train service that is so poor. Perhaps on the upside - if Bordon doesn't rebuild (by the way, no-one has ever said it would be simple or cheap), a rail link they may offer a better service from Liphook. Which would be a benefit to all. We could be really optimistic, and see Bordon as the flagship Eco town, which would see Government and councils putting in practice what they are spouting. After all if you want to roll the concept out in other areas, you have to have one that lives up to the mark!. Fingers crossed!!

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Sue W (30th Jul 2008 - 09:49:30) Mr Dowdle Nice of you to join in the discussion. If Bordon fails in its bid to become a Eco town, how many houses are planned/agreed over the next 5-10years?

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Eneida (30th Jul 2008 - 11:43:18) I tend to agree with 'arch-cynic' Stephen over the Government's attitude in pushing the green issue here!! I also believe they think it will be a great way of introducing lots of Labour voters into traditional Tory territory because of the large amount of 'social' housing involved..... Eneida

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Sue W (30th Jul 2008 - 14:34:23) Labour have a long way to go to make this a Labour stronghold with social housing endeavours. They can't even win in their strongest seats. The people they rely on are the ones most hurting!! I remember a saying my Gran used....give them enough rope....

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - allan (31st Jul 2008 - 01:50:51) I'm astonished that anybody can get worked up over this. It will take years to progress from it's current status as an aspiration. How many changes of government may take place within the consultation process time with resultant changes of priority. At some stage a new government (if elected) may decide that it is environmentally nuts to sponsor temporary accommodation (cos @ 60 years that is what it is) for short-term aquisition of "green" credentials for what? Dumping the inhabitants of social housing requirers on the area raises serious questions about how the locallity could reasonably absorb their social requirements of schooling, medi care, etc. The proposal is that 5 - 5000 houses will be built and occupied in the Whitehill and Borden area. I'm certain that the land space exists to to this, but, if you suddenly have 2 parents +2.4 children in occupation of said houses, that is 20 to 26 thousand more people of varying ages depending on resources which simply could not meet their needs. Furthermore; the proposed mix of affordable, social and lux/exec type housing development in the same area would be a first time success. Think Leigh Park next to the Berg estate. £1/2 a million quid for a property that in 60 years time needs demolishing!. I'll take two!! And they will be queuing won't they? Fact is, if the Govt. of the day want to display their eco credentials, they should concentrate on doing so in cities where they have established transport systems, business and emloyment opportunities and influxes of numbers of people as above will not upset local socio-ecological ruralities which have existed successfully without their interference before 1997.

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Alan Baker (31st Jul 2008 - 08:08:43) The trouble is Allan, if we all sit back and say "well it might never happen" then it will be seen by the powers to be that the local residents are happy with the plans. Out comes rubber stamp and 5,000 homes approved. Now, the plans might get changed when eco- governments change, but you can bet they will still happen - just think of the size of the 'bung' the council will receive from the developers for improvements to local amenities, which we all know from experience, rarely actually happen.

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Sue W (31st Jul 2008 - 09:31:00) Has anyone heard what is going to happen with Longmoor Camp? Some say the Army will not leave Longmoor, many believe it to be earmarked for immigrants to set up a new community.

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Sue (31st Jul 2008 - 09:45:51) Allan You could well have touched on a good point - this may not happen tomorrow, but rest assurred some major changes will be made once the Army have left. On the radio the other day, the topic was about the fact that it probably will take much longer for the Army to re-locate than first thought. I would have thought none of the Eco project can be achieved without their exit first, unless someone can advise us otherwise! The reason people are active now on this discussion is that it concerns them in their own way, and Alan's comment is exactly why people should voice their concerns/support now. Personally, I would love things to stay exactly as they are in both Liphook and B & WH, but one thing you can count on is that development of some kind will happen. All to often you hear people moan about things, after the event - is that not a tiny bit late?! Sue

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Chris (31st Jul 2008 - 10:08:28) The problem is that once a planning proposal is approved then a change of government/administration very rarely sees it reversed. Revised maybe...

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Dawn Hoskins (1st Aug 2008 - 12:34:24) It was pointed out that these proposed houses are to be built to “eco level 4”. I do not know what this means and would appreciate it if someone could explain this to me. Also, if ALL NEW HOUSES are supposed to be “level 6” in only 8 years time [what is level 6?] these proposed ones will [by default] not be as environmentally friendly as the non-ECO houses built only a few years later… Is it me or is this mad

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Alan Baker (1st Aug 2008 - 12:57:36) This Telegraph article (29th June) suggests only level 3 will be required for the 'eco' town. url.co.uk/3bxc9 It also makes for an interesting read. This transcript from a government video goes some way to explain the codes - url.co.uk/kx64f It even tells us that a cat gives off 16 watts !

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Chris (3rd Aug 2008 - 08:12:13) Not sure exactly how old the following document is: url.co.uk/ulwi5

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Gill Barratt (5th Aug 2008 - 22:22:39) Dawn, Taken from the Telegraph online ... "According to the report, building a house that complies with the Government's Code for Sustainable Homes Level One (10 per cent more efficient than today's specifications) will add an extra £1,000 to the build price; to meet Level 3 (25 per cent more efficient) will cost an extra £5,000, while Level 5 (100 per cent more efficient) will add £26,000 to the build cost. For high-rise flats, this will be even higher - up to £36,000 extra per unit. Level 6, to which all new houses will have to be built by 2016 is as yet unquantifiable because of the high cost of microgeneration technologies such as solar panels." As you can see, all new houses have to be Level 6 by 2016, but the new eco town will only be level 4? How eco is that then or is the eco town just a cynical attempt by EHDC to build the houses the residents voted against when it was presented as the Whitehill-Bordon opportunity? GB

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - allan (7th Aug 2008 - 01:44:11) I think you have put your finger on just exactly what this is about. Big initiative from national gov. Will never come to pass as a reality. Nat Gov is so keen to air it's eco creds that they will sign up to more-or-less anything that makes them look right there and cool. Market forces will dictate whether buyers will pay for ecological benefits in the homes they are buying and moving into as expressed above. Those being placed there by their local councils won't give a toss. It's stuff and nonsense that if it were ever to come to pass would be indicative that our council reps have finally lost their minds. And if they allowed Nat Gov to impose their will without protest, make your mind up and vote the individuals out next time

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Chris (8th Aug 2008 - 07:55:03) Please refer to the notes on the "eco-town challenge" report from EHDC's planning portal and especially page 44 where one of the councillors has penned an imaginary letter from son to mum on how close to Nirvana Whitehill and Bordon now is (the year is 2020). Yikes! I was really in two minds about the virtues of an eco-town but the Edenic slant on the imaginary letter dives recklessly into the shallow well of farce and tips the balance for me. The National Government dream is already being lived by our councillors who have fallen under the magic spell of flowers, woodland, no crime or ASBOs, co-operative teenagers and trains running on time from a local mainline station. Will it really be like this?...I hope so but something is causing me to doubt it. It's a fund-winning vision and a great work of fiction if nothing else. www.communities.gov.uk/... [editor - I have extracted page 44 it can be viewed here eco-futures.pdf]

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Sue W (8th Aug 2008 - 11:36:36) Chris Yuck! What a sickly and dreamy letter to compose. The author of that piece can't be a resident of Bordon because most of the content is there already. Ok not the shops, leisure centre and training programmes, but life there is pretty good!!. The comment that you could almost be in woodland is actually true today. From the forest centre you only have to walk for 2-3 minutes to be in woodlands in one direction, 4 minutes in another to be at Knoxes pond and a tad further you are on part of Walldown. As for talking to neighbours people are very sociable - no more or less than anywhere else. If a councillor needed to do such a thing, I question their suitability to that position.

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Sue w (19th Aug 2008 - 10:14:21) Just attended a Planning Meeting, where a proposal to build at Penally Farm was presented. They propose to build to level 4 (as far as I could make out). He discussed briefly what would be required to make them level 6 - the councils preferred level in the future. As far as I could understand, they would have to be self powering which would mean a number of visual mediums i.e wind turbines, large solar panels etc, which would have been unsightly and not welcome to the area. It made me wonder, if that is the case are the council going to blight the B&WH areas with these wind machines? If so the vision of the councillor, nestling among the woods, should be more of a forest of white metal!! If I have got this wrong, please put my mind at rest Sue

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Rhys G (19th Aug 2008 - 18:22:30) I’ve been doing a little research on this with interest - I’m currently doing a related degree. As far as I can make out, at the moment, homes reach certain levels by obtaining a certain number of credits. For example, for level 4 the points have to tally up to between 68 and 83 credits, or for level 6 between 90 and 100 . These credits can be obtained by achieving certain levels in nine categories (Energy/CO2, Water, Materials, Surface water run off, Waste, Pollution, Health and well-being, Management and Ecology [it gets more complicated as each category also has subdivisions]). They are usually based around percentage reductions at each level. There are some minimum standards, levels or pre-requisites for certain levels and categories, so if a home achieves everything for a level 6 standard, but is missing something basic from level 1, it is awarded no stars (nil rated). Obviously there are limits to the number of credits that can be obtained in certain categories, so usually the credits have to be obtained over several, though this is not necessarily so for lower categories as long as minimum standards are achieved. All in all it’s quite difficult to explain in detail without writing an essay and getting myself confused, so I suggest you take a few moments to look at this (tinyurl.com/25qz4o) document online, or order a hard copy version – it’s free, but that would use paper! Also watch out for related amendments and additions. You are probably correct in stating that to achieve level 6, on site renewable energy would be necessary, otherwise it would be difficult to accumulate the credits required, and there may be further requirements and minimum standards involved for level 6. I personally like wind turbines and find them quite aesthetically pleasing, but this matter is subjective! This is what I understand at present, but am, currently, no expert so don’t quote me on it!

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Graham (19th Aug 2008 - 23:52:10) Sue This is rather worrying (NIMBY'ism I know), I live next door/opposite Penally Farm and was not aware of any new planning submissions (with the exception of burying spoil and Japanese knotweed on the pasture land, which in my view should be discouraged!). Do you have any further information on this please?, there is nothing on EHDC planning portal as far as I can see. Many thanks Graham

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Sue W (20th Aug 2008 - 22:34:11) On the Penally Farm matter, all I know and can say is what was described on the Planning Agenda for Monday 'Outline Proposals for re-development of former farm complex - Penally Farm, Hewshott Lane, Liphook. To hear proposals from Barton Wilmore for re-development of former farm complex at Penally Farm.' I was not there for this reason, but after 'our slot' stayed to listen (with interest), what was being proposed. It is perhaps best to check with the Parish Office - or to keep your eyes and ears open for anything further. I know this site is quite close to the building work going on at present and from previous threads there have been some concern. Further down the list was: Plan/ks/eh159 - Disposal of arisings (incl surplus spoil/Japanese knotweed) resulting from construction activities at Bramshott Place, incl. reprofiling/remediation of land - Penally Farm, Hewshott Lane, Liphook. Applicant Helical (liphook) Ltd Hope this helps.

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Allan (29th Nov 2008 - 17:53:30) Iain Wright, govt. spokesman on Eco Town developement went on t.v. yesterday to give news of how things were progressing. Somewhere in the background I could hear a bugle playing........ "The retreat", perhaps!! What was it Macmillan said about "events"?

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Chris (6th Apr 2009 - 15:18:45) Interesting presentation on Saturday 4th and many ideas put forward. Here is a link to the website www.whitehillbordon.com/... All Liphook residents that have concerns regarding the burden of extra commuter traffic or works traffic (of all the eco-town schemes, this one has the best chance of going ahead) should at least complete the questionnaire and be armed with knowledge of what alternatives are being proposed. This is apparently a £1.1bn building and infrastructure project and EHDC is in a state of animated excitment about it. Be warned that this new scheme WILL impact Liphook. During a brief discussion I had with Ferris Cowper he hinted at the idea of a commuter tramline being erected along the B3004 or along the disused railwaylink to get commuters to Liphook station. Commenting on the impracticalities of that idea, one alternative idea put forward for the rail link is that the involved developers be asked to foot part, if not all, of the bill to get a new station open and a line installed. Don't let this pass you by without at least taking the opportunity to check out the proposals and making your voices heard.

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Alan Baker (6th Apr 2009 - 15:46:21) Hi Chris Not sure what route any link "along the disused railwaylink to get commuters to Liphook station" would take. As the old rail link went from Bordon to Bentley (Alton line). See wikipedia entry. Details of the old military line can be seen at www.irsociety.co.uk/.... This shows the nearest point of access to existing rail links would be Liss not Liphook. Would be interesting to know what they are actually proposing. Alan

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - P Weyland (7th Apr 2009 - 12:19:04) The way I understand it (euphanism for 'this could be completely false') is that the proposed railway link would indeed meet up at Bentley. The railway link was part of the deal that will provide the need for better public transport links. This is a pre-requisite for areas wanting to play host to the eco town project. The railway link would have to be installed by 2017.

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Chris (7th Apr 2009 - 12:21:21) Nor me Alan. I was too wrapped up in trying to suppress the imagery of a tramline along the B3004 to ask exactly where this disused line is exactly. There used to be a station at Bordon where the "One-stop" shop is...

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Michael Radmore (7th Apr 2009 - 12:46:16) I belong to a newly formed group and we are vehemently opposed to 5,500 new houses. Our views are articulated on our new web site which I would urge you to visit www.baaga.co.uk Over and above this I am very disillusioned at the lies and spin we have been fed. It was better in South Africa under the Nationalist Party during the apartheid era - you new exactly where you stood! Bordon has been a convenient dumping ground for other peoples problems for years but be warned it will spread to Liphook. Michael

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Steve Read (7th Apr 2009 - 14:28:00) [Over and above this I am very disillusioned at the lies and spin we have been fed. It was better in South Africa under the Nationalist Party during the apartheid era - you new exactly where you stood! ] mmm! expect it was, providing you were not black with a tyre round your neck, what a stupid statement, well done. We can all see the comparison you are attempting to make, second thoughts no we can't! Build the Eco Town, I say!

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Gill Barratt (13th Apr 2009 - 22:27:16) Please come along to a public meeting on FRIDAY 17th APRIL 2009 at 7.30pm at THE FOREST CENTRE, BORDON. Hear the facts of the eco town proposal and make up your own mind. It affects everyone in the EHDC area. I have made my views known before so will not harp on! All I will say is that I have now seen the proposed plans and I am utterley horrified. Peckham on a December evening looks more inviting. Please attend the Public meeting and make up your own mind.

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - P McNamara (14th Apr 2009 - 10:32:40) Greetings from an overseas city that has had it's fair share of development in recent years (Dublin). There are some lessons to be learned from the various 'sustainable' and clearly unsustainable development that has gone on here of late. 1. Be aware that developers may be counting quite heavily on public apathy in relation to counter-opinions on any developments 2. Transport is always an after-thought 3. There is no money anywhere - i.e. very few developers have the necessary capital right now, or are dramatically cutting back on various 'sustainable' elements of developments here in Dublin on the 'people need property at any cost' ticket 4. In the Dublin metro area, there are currently in the region of 70,000 empty properties recently substantially completed with no planned owners or tennants due to the impact of the global financial issue Clearly Bordon and Dublin are different (even I know that!) but I suspect that the main lesson to take would be that developers will try and do almost anything to make a buck, particularly at a time like this. I would (personally) therefore be less inclined now to believe anything I would hear about any sustainable development, but most importantly of all if I have any opinion on the matter I would ensure I attend any public forum to represent my views and convey the message to the planners and developers that the public is maintaining it's interest in ensuring the development fits local needs etc. Therefore - the development is to be commended providing it does achieve it's originally stated 'eco' (latest buzz-word) goals, and forums like this that foster debate and opinion may be the last refuge of sense given the overarching challenging financial conditions that any development might progress within. Keep it up!

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Mike Grimes (14th Apr 2009 - 10:41:35) But how would one get to Peckham and back on a December evening? The railway, if it were ever re-instated would never be more than a glorified tram. Probably running to Bentley to connect with slow trains to London (or from London, but not both) up until the early evening at the latest. "Dad, can you pick me up at Guildford?" "You know we weren't allowed cars. You'll have to get a taxi to the outskirts of Whitehill and walk in." But, if I do that I'll never be able to afford one of those affordable homes that we all dream of."

Re: Bordon shortlisted for eco town development - Sue w (20th Apr 2009 - 19:31:07) I attended the meeting on Friday - Did anyone else? There were a lot of points raised against the development - as I would have expected, and some of the view points were as equally hyped up, as EHDC were played down. BUT, the main concerns that I left the hall thinking, was the understanding that the Eco town would provide the facilities, transport, shops and all the benefits that other towns (such as Petersfield, Alton, etc has), actually there are NO PROMISES to be built at all. Basically, it seems that most if not all of the housing would be completed BEFORE the facilities would be put in place - if then? The timescale for building is about 20years, and more years to build the facilities total quoted 30 years. So for 20 years, there is going to be so much more traffic on ALL roads in the area, Oakhanger, Headley, Wrecclesham, Passfield, Liphook, Alton just so these extra people can buy the goods that they would need and as the existing shops would not be adequate - basic shopping would have to be carried out by supermarkets and shops further a field. So to me - (if I have got this wrong - please correct my understanding), this ECO town will be very uneco friendly for many years!! The second item that shocked me and a few others is that some of the proposed buildings could be 6-8 levels high - (Blocks of flats), at present most of the army and a number of sites ie by the High Street at bordon is 3 stories high, and there is just one section alongside the A325, which has two, two story houses on top of each other - making it only 4 stories. These are slightly offset by high fencing, and probably because we have become used to it, doesn’t seem that obvious. Some how EHDC needs to show us exactly where the housing will go, and what type of houses will be used where. All I seem to see is maps with large areas highlighted, but the reality is - Will the high rise blocks be on main existing roads, or will they be incorporated into sites not noticeable when driving along main link roads? Interestingly, I showed my 20 year old the presentation which is on Baaga website, and his reaction was completely different. I think EHDC needs to give us more information before they continue quoting that most of Bordon and Whitehill are behind them. Please view the presentation and make up your own minds www.baaga.co.uk

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