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Beware south bound Shell station - tom williams (28th Mar 2008 - 07:24:09) I know of three people who have had their credit card cloned after using it at this fuel station. These people all only use their card for fuel and were only using this station. The police aren't interested unless the card issuing bank makes a complaint.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Dawn Hoskins (28th Mar 2008 - 09:27:44) You can add another to the list. We (my husband) had his card cloned there. Of course the bank always refund the money after the form filling ect....but it is a bloody disgrace that the police are turning a blind eye to it all!

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Anon for security reasons please (28th Mar 2008 - 15:00:00) We too have been victims of card cloning and I know for a fact that it was the south bound Shell fuel station as it is the only place my husband fills up on the company debit card...NOT any more I should add. My advice is to hold your hand over the keypad as well if you must use card in this store - I have heard that several ploys such as re-directing the CCTV to look over your shoulder to gain the pin, as well as 'dummy' customers standing behind you while you enter the numbers. Within a couple of days the card was cloned and over £250.00 withdrawn in cash at a cash point in Malaysia. The bank were swift to refund the money but slow in chasing up what is obviously a scam happening right on our doorstep! I called the police to get my 'crime ref number' and handed it to the bank to follow up but nothing has happened. I have since not used said fuel station and urge you ALL to be very careful.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - liz (28th Mar 2008 - 16:06:56) Have you tried contacting Shell? I too have heard similar stories and this can't be doing too much for their reputation or sales in the village. According to their website the number for queries relating to service stations is 0800 731 8888. Failing that try head office.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - anon please ed (28th Mar 2008 - 16:37:14) I work at a petrol station (NOT shell) . We have protective measures in place to help combat card fraud and I know of no such cases at this site. Staff have no accessibility to the CCTV monitoring station,it is locked. We are not allowed to handle customers cards if they're using the chip and pin device and they have to put their card into the device,not the staff., the keypad is covered by a shield which blocks the keypad from staff view,nor are we allowed to "handle" the device. If your using the nightpay then the keypad fits through the hatch for the customer to enter their pin , but understanderbly a lot of people pay by cash overnight. I have,in my time, witnessed customers saying their pin as theyre entering it and also not covering the keypad with their hands. I've also witnessed customers waiting in the queue behind the paying customer, standing too close in inpatience and have asked them to stand back in the queue. I do try to use cash for petrol if I need to fill up elsewhere, as 2 of my friends have had their cards cloned in fleet and farnborough. I think we all have to be extra vigilant and indeed protect ourselves from this sort of fraud which is sadly on the increase.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - barbara Easton (29th Mar 2008 - 17:03:07) Thank you for the warning, I do use the garage but will try and avoid it, I think I paid in cash last time I was there! There are so many scams, one letter I had recently told me I was owed money by a national company. To get this refund would I send my bank details so that they could send the money direct to my bank account? This I did not do, but elderly people might do exactly that!

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Owen (1st Apr 2008 - 12:15:38) You have just confirmed my suspicions. December this year, someone from Malaysia attempted to empty my debit account. There could only have been a few places my details were cloned from, but reading this confirms it was at Liphook Shell. I’m also about 99% certain who was doing it as well, (probably cant describe him for legal reasons) but he served me most of the times I used to go in there in the morning, and frankly he was far too friendly, (I know that sounds paranoid, but he was), and I’m guessing he was attempting to distract me. Anyone else think they know who I am referring to? Also, has anyone informed the police that there are now numerous people who have been hit there?

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Freddie Dawkins (1st Apr 2008 - 12:54:45) Two years ago, Shell had to stop taking credit cards via their swipe machines, because of an organised fraud. More than 400 Shell garages were forced to go back to manual machines and counterfoils. I spoke to the relevant police department at the time and Shell, who admitted they were the victims of a very clever fraud. The criminals had special cloning machines which could break chip and PIN. (Though Shell and the police would not actually admit this part of the story). Shell introduced extra security measures, working with the credit card issuers, but obviously someone has found a way around this. It could be any retail chain where you physically hand over your card to an operator. Just be aware and always check your monthly statements.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Steve (1st Apr 2008 - 13:27:51) My AMEX was hit in December too, several attempts to remove cash from ATM's in Malaysia throughout December. Fortunately for me, the American Express fraud team smelt a rat before debiting any money. They just called me and advised me that someone had tried to take money from it. Very good they were too, cancelled the account and re-issued me a new card. I only ever really used my AMEX for petrol but I couldn't say for certain which petrol stations I used it in but Liphook Southbound is the one I use most for sure.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Susan (1st Apr 2008 - 20:35:56) I am now very concerned. Are you saying that this fraud is being carried out by members of staff? Or the managers who access CCTV footage? or a very cleaver team who work off site?? As far as I understood the system, only at entry point can the pin be revealed, either by watching, camera or a film over the key pad - which must mean someone has regular access to the site? If this is the case the culpit (s) should surely be evident. It seems all of you have evidence or a stronge suspicion of where, so why not contact the police, shell or card issuers who take very strong action over these type of cases. It seems that good old cash is still very much safer, and as someone else has said, the elderly often speak out their pin on entry - this I have often withnessed. However, you can still access any account with the details printed from any card transaction WITHOUT a pin number, IF you take the opition of 'Customer not present' on any terminal. Once again this can only be gathered from the printed records taken at the time of purchase. Then you have to trace who handles these transactions - which may not be any member of staff at the garage, but someone in the clearing system!!. Pay by cash if you are in doubt!

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Kyle (3rd Apr 2008 - 09:05:26) I suggest people on this site get their facts straight before pointing the finger at people. I can confirm that this site has security measures in place to prevent this type of scam happening, as do all Shell sites in the country.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Steve (3rd Apr 2008 - 09:44:05) Kyle, I'm slightly confused by 'get their facts straight'? The facts as you say are: Quite a few Liphook people get their cards cloned, all use the southbound shell service station, some only use their card for petrol, some of these people only use the southbound petrol station. Attempts to gain money from the cloned cards seem to be mostly in Malaysia. I am no copper which is lucky as i'd be more interested in arresting the people speeding into the petrol station rather than those cloning cards inside but something a little bit odd went on before Xmas.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Steve (3rd Apr 2008 - 10:51:56) Apologies for my previous message after re-reading and digesting the post more carefully I'd like to add that although my card was cloned I'd not accuse any of the staff there. I know a couple of them and would never suspect them. There are a lot of things that can happen to a transaction once it has been taken at the till, in fact the head office of Shell could be the more likely interface. We shouldn't directly accuse staff as most of them are locals like us and probably unaware of anything going on. Just a thought but the cashpoint outside, could that of been compromised?

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Graham Gorringe (3rd Apr 2008 - 11:00:26) I am not sure when the scam finished (at least I hope it has finished) but attempts were made to use my credit card in the UK about a month ago. My daughters debit card was also used in an attempt to obtain cash in Leicester last week. Our bank's are different but fortunately they were both on the ball and prevented unauthorised withdrawals but it shows that we cannot presume that the problem has gone away. The only common denominator was Liphook Shell southbound.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Grahame Polley (3rd Apr 2008 - 13:11:04) I had my card cloned in December 2007 and someone tried to withdraw money from an ATM in Malaysia. Fortunately LloydsTSB were on the ball and stopped the transaction. They couldn't pin point where the cloning took place but they did say that petrol stations are at the top of the list. I had used the Shell garage during October 2007. I don't want to stop using the Shell station as their diesel is the cheapest around this area.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Frank Baldry (3rd Apr 2008 - 20:48:55) leading on from Kyle and Steves posts, I once had a credit card used fraudulently for $1500 and it was still in the envelope it arrived in! Presumably it was an inside job at the credit card company, took 2 months to get my money back though. I also used to be a regular customer of a filling station in Waterlooville until one tank of petrol cost me £500. Apparently the cashier staff had been threatened with violence by an organised gang if they did not participate. So we certainly should not jump to conclusions as to who was responsible for the Shell scam.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - jon (4th Apr 2008 - 12:55:53) I cant understand why Credit Card's cant hold the owners photo like the Driving Licence's do. I know that this does not prevent online fraud or a cetain amount of cloning, but would help. I find nowadays,CC much more trouble then they are worth.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - James Arbuthnot (7th Apr 2008 - 15:49:01) This does all sound rather strange. I shall draw this thread to the attention of the police and Shell and ask for their comments. I shall upload their replies in due course.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Sue (15th Apr 2008 - 19:07:35) Someone has made me aware that the situation at the above garage has been dealt with (a few months ago), the police were in attendance, a camera was found and a culprit detected. If that is the case then I look forward to confirmation from James and his investigations.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - James Arbuthnot (18th Apr 2008 - 11:56:10) Nick Adams, Retail Manager, at Shell UK has replied: Dear Mr Arbuthnot Thank you for your letter dated 8th April to James Smith [Shell UK Managing Director]. I appreciate you taking the time to contact me regarding the issue of suspected fraudulent activities at Shell Liphook South. Through the banks, Shell is kept informed of any suspicious activities which are suspected to be linked to our sites. We investigate these and keep our security measures under constant review. Unfortunately, even with enhanced security measures in place, criminal activity does take place as no system can be foolproof. While I realise such a incident will have caused your constituents great concern and inconvenience, they may be reassured by APACS stance on the matter, “…as ever if you are the innocent victim of any kind of card fraud you will not incur any financial loss.” We take extremely seriously the fact that the contributors to the Liphook community website believe these incidents took place at a Shell Service Station and we continue to work very closely with the Police, card companies and our industry partners to investigate credit card fraud. Please be assured that we are currently investigating these claims. Yours sincerely Also, Hampshire Constabulary has acknowledged my letter and I shall post the substantive reply when it arrives.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - john friel-ball (jaybee) (8th May 2008 - 20:22:32) My grandaughters card has been cloned and used in Milton Keynes. She has used the South Bound Shell Station

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Johnnie Wilkinson (10th May 2008 - 22:58:05) If I was a member of staff at Shell I'd sue all of you for libal for tending to insinuate that they were to blame for the cloning. And i'd sue this website for allowing it to be published. Learn law. Oh wait? You're not going to allow this post, because i'm criticising the website? Sounds a bit like the Parish Council to me.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Dawn Hoskins (11th May 2008 - 21:43:50) Dear Mr. Wilkinson With regard to current law... It is true that the area of hosting has in the past given rise to uncertainties as to whether the site is a 'mere conduit' or should be deemed to be 'the publisher' of material. This stems from the infamous case against Demon Internet. Certainly, way way before this case, injured parties sought to bring actions (in defamation) against web hosts and ISP providers on the basis that they should be responsible for postings by bloggers etc. It is to a certain extent true that hosts may be potentially liable - but this only extends to unlawful material (such as defamation, IP breaches, pornography, racist material, etc) and again only within the limited time period [from the web host being made aware of the unlawful material and the host either taking too long to remove it or failing altogether to remove it]. The case law which has developed since the Demon Internet case supports the 'mere conduit' theory and in the main, states that web hosts will not be liable for third party content, provided that they do not perform any editorial function (this would include a host who claims to monitor for illegal activity but fails to remove offending posts = as this is an editorial function). On this note - if the host is made aware of unlawful stuff and takes no action to remove it, he may become liable in damages - although it is noted that the Demon case took the form of criminal prosecution - but this was unusual. It should also be pointed out that failing to remove is not the same thing as acting to remove after it has come to the attention of the host. Therefore, if the host investigates and removes later - there will be no liability as long as that procedure can be shown to have taken place - similarly if the complaint is looked into and left in place because it is not defamatory there will be no liability. [Even in the Demon case, they were only found liable for ten days]. Luckily for us, the vagaries involved with the British system of judicial precedent have now been alleviated by the new 'E-Commerce Directive' which makes the legal position clear. Article 12. Web Hosts will not be held liable for information transmitted on their sites provided that the relevant service provider: - Does not initiate the transmission; - Does not select the receiver of the transmission; and - Does not select or modify the information contained in the transmission. If the above are satisfied, the host will be deemed a 'mere conduit' although they should still remove unlawful postings if a complaint is received and investigations hold up the complaint. Article 14 - protects ISPs re: postings as long as: - It does not have actual knowledge of illegal activity or information and, as regards claims for damages, is not aware of facts or circumstances upon which the legal activity or information is apparent; or - Upon obtaining such legal knowledge or awareness acts expeditiously to remove or disable access to the information. Once again, the main criterion is that of knowledge. If the host receives a complaint, then it should delete the post a.s.a.p. So, Mr. Wilkinson the current state of play revolves around 1) an actual illegal act 2) the host being made aware 3) the host removing and not being liable or not removing and he MAY be - I say only may as the E-commerce Directive makes it clear host are under no obligation to monitor. So, each case will likely turn on the complaints systems in place and whether it was adequate or not. With regard to this specific thread; people who are stating matters of fact or truth are not being unlawful in any way shape or form. The truth cannot be libelous nor can it be defamatory in any way [the Defamation Act of 1996]. Is there anything else you would like assistance with?

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Sue W (13th May 2008 - 20:45:15) Mr Wilkinson Quite rightly you blame people for jumping to conclusions about the possibility of staff (or one) somehow being linked to the problem - do you have any proof that they are not? I and others would like it not to be the case, but perhaps some have more details about this than they have printed. we will have to wait and see.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - dawn (14th May 2008 - 18:57:31) The issue (I think) is not that members of staff are being blamed, but the electronic system that Shell uses is being blamed. Most of the posts merely point out that the fraud on their card has occurred and I do not believe that, in the main, anyone is trying to persecute staff that work there. As one poster states, the fraud is most likely to occur away from the site where details are skimmed electronically eg: head office. Asking for proof of innocence or guilt of individual staff members will not be helping the situation if it is happening away from the site. Kyle states that there is security in place to stop this happening, and he may mean that measures are in place to prevent staff present in the garage from perpetrating the fraud. This does not of course, as testimony establishes, mean that it will prevent fraud full stop on a nationwide basis. I just don’t use the garage anymore. I don’t care who is to blame – they had one chance and they blew it. At the time that it happened to us, we had also been to the A3 Petersfield McDonalds (mainly to use the loo!) I refuse to go there too - as I couldn’t be sure at the time which establishment it was that had caused the problem.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - James Arbuthnot (23rd Jul 2008 - 13:10:17) I've received the following reply from Inspector Rickwood at Hampshire Constabulary: Dear Mr Arbuthnot I am writing to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 19 June concerning comments that appeared on the Liphook website about the Shell service station. Regrettably this is the first time I had been aware of your correspondence and I note that Acting Superintendent Mellors acknowledged receipt of your letter as long ago as April, so I apologise for the delay in responding. As an interim update I can confirm that I have identified from our Records Management System a reference to a wider investigation that was being conducted by the City of London Police in late November 2007 and which also included the Shell service station. As the local Safer Neighbourhoods Inspector I had not been aware of the correspondence on the website and certainly have not been made aware of wider concerns within the community that required police intervention and reassurance. I look forward to providing a final response at the earliest opportunity. Thank you for your patience. Yours sincerely Inspector Rickwood Officer in charge, Longmoor Sector

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Graham Moreton (23rd Jul 2008 - 23:03:17) I have no direct proof, but shortly after visiting the South Bound Shell Station, my debit card was cloned and a spate of low level transactions followed, all less than £62.00 and more than £50.00 over a three week period before I checked a my statement and stopped my card, every fraud transaction was made at Tesco's, a shop I personally ever use (just under £2,000 in total)! Yes, my card could have possibly been cloned elseware, but it does seem very conincidental. Be warned as this only happend in June this year! Regards Graham

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Steve (28th Jul 2008 - 07:41:29) Same happened to me in April Graham, my card was used in Tesco direct shops accross the midlands, I had about 2k stolen also. The card had been used a few days earlier in the Liphook Shell garage. Something is going on in that garage and the authorities are doing little to nothing. I wrote an email to Shell, heard nothing, we told the police, nothing. I don't know if anyone saw the papers lately of the Romanian baby sitting in a pile of bank notes fraudently obtained from cloned cards, but I can't help feeling that these foreign criminals are taking the p**s out of our police force. The Great Britich police force a once credit to our nation who are only now only interested in ripping motorists off to gain revenue. Thats the last time I will use Shell, which is a shame as the Vpower stuff seems to be great for the car and superior to other brands.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - James Arbuthnot (31st Jul 2008 - 15:51:07) I have received a further reply from Inspector Rickwood: Further to my letter dated 15 July 2008 concerning comments that appeared on the Liphook website about the theft of personal data and deceptions involving the Shell service station, I have now had the opportunity to speak to Detective Constable Kate Saunders from the Dedicated Cheque and Plastic Crime Unit who has been involved with this investigation from the outset. She has indicated that a male arrested in connection with this investigation is due to appear in court on 12 August, and she would be please to arrange a reply to any questions that you may have.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Rhys G (31st Jul 2008 - 18:09:21) All seems rather fishy. I never use the Shell on the A3, and this shall now continue so. The "Dedicated Cheque and Plastic Crime Unit"? Is there a Non-Dedicated unit?

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Sue W (1st Aug 2008 - 11:30:27) Did they say if the Man was employed at the South Bound station, or did the offence happen 'off site'?

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Eneida (1st Aug 2008 - 12:29:25) Having been a victim of card fraud last month (almost certainly originating in Liphook, or so I've been told, but not petrol station) I know there's nothing funny about it only too well but..... Dedicated Cheque & Plastic Crime Unit?? Has this been thought up by the Ministry For Silly Dept. Names I wonder.... Eneida

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Allan (2nd Aug 2008 - 01:13:44) Waal, something seems to be amiss here. I have the answer- pay cash. Can't ? course you can. Just plan it; cashpoint first, fuel next;easy.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Rhys G (2nd Aug 2008 - 18:16:00) ...Only if your card doesn't get cloned at the cash point you used!

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Jaybee (7th Aug 2008 - 21:45:24) Quote from the LIPHOOK HERALD "A man has been arrested in connection with the investigation into claims of credit card fraud at the South Bound Shell Service Station at Liphook and is due to appear at Southwark Crown Court on August 13."

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Sue W (8th Aug 2008 - 11:41:38) Jaybee Beware!! The Herald could well have pinched their story from these pages!! Its been done before. If its the same situation that I heard of - it was months ago.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - editor (13th Aug 2008 - 13:54:01) I wonder if this is a related matter ... news.bbc.co.uk/... "Speaking in general, Det Ch Insp John Folan, of the Dedicated Cheque and Plastic Crime Unit, said that chip-and-pin terminals that have been hacked into have been found in 30 shops in the UK. "

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Editor (21st Aug 2008 - 12:45:07) From 'The Register' today www.theregister.co.uk/... ------------ An advisory from specialist police at the UK's Dedicated Cheque and Plastic Crime Unit (DCPCU) to merchants, distributed on 5 August - warns of the risk: Criminals have found it possible to insert data capturing equipment into the devices used to input credit/debit card and PIN details at retail outlets. These devices are known as PIN Entry Devices (or PEDs). The method involves the theft of PEDs from stores and retail outlets. These stolen PEDs are re-engineered and fitted with additional equipment inside. It should be noted that the criminals have overcome the security features of several different manufacturers. The compromised devices are then installed into a retail outlet, such as a supermarket or petrol station, (often with the assistance of a collusive member of staff) and card details and PINs captured from transactions. This data is transmitted to the criminals who then use it to create fake credit cards that are used abroad. DCPCU advised merchants to regularly audit PIN entry systems to detect if devices have been moved or replaced. It also urged caution over the handling of malfunctioning PIN entry terminals, sent back to manufacturers for repair. As possible safeguards, it suggests the placement of internal CCTV systems to cover till areas, as well as IT systems to detect PED replacement. But security experts are sceptical about the effectiveness of such measures. --------- This problem is obviously a huge blow to the industry - read this article from Ireland www.irishtimes.com/... Looks like the Police should have taken more notice of the problems discovered in Liphook months ago.

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Sue W (21st Aug 2008 - 22:27:53) Any update on the case that was due at Court on the 13th?

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - Alan Baker (29th Aug 2008 - 08:30:23) From Computer Weekly 26th August .. Every Chip and Pin terminal in the UK must be checked and modified. CW has learnt that a program of carrying out checks and modifications to every terminal in retailers throughout the UK began behind the scenes in July. DCI John Folan head of the "Dedicated Cheque and Plastic Crime Unit" said "The unit began finding evidence of the compromise in May, but was only in a position to issue precise technical advise in July on the necessary modifications to the termimals."

Re: Beware south bound Shell station - claire (29th Aug 2008 - 09:08:09) sooooooooooo....... just remind me ...... chip and pin is safer than my good old cheque book....hmmmmmmm

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