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Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Jane Ives (5th Apr 2013 - 11:50:36) I did promise to put a link on here when the minutes for the Annual Parish Meeting held 25th March were published. The draft minutes have gone onto the PC website today. It is quite a lengthy document and the following are some edited highlights. Please feel free to come along to the relevant committee meetings if you would like to know more about future plans and actions. The full reports can be read using the link below. bramshottandliphook-pc.gov.uk/... Dog control order soon to be introduced in the rec and on the Millennium Green Radford Park improvements underway with dead tree and shrub clearance, and improvements to pathways and steps Working party established to look at the future of Radford Park and how we can improve it for the future – community involvement/feedback will be sought Skate park working party established to review what we have now and how it could be improved – open meeting to be held Friday 26th April at 6pm in the Millennium Centre for all interested parties Refurbishment of children’s play area phase 2 progressing with a proposed completion date this year More funding put into litter management in the village Neighbourhood Plan Working Party established New and exciting events planned for the Millennium Centre including band nights, pamper evenings, art exhibitions, children’s events Cinema events still hugely popular at the Millennium Centre New PC website up and running including agenda and minutes of council meetings plus information on cinema and events at the Millennium Centre Speedwatch scheme introduced but now needs volunteers to get it up and running Ferris Cowper (County Councillor) reported on parking issues at Infant/Junior schools, traffic calming measures in Bramshott, resurfacing works, A3 noise (full report included in minutes)

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Katy B (5th Apr 2013 - 14:18:41) Thanks Jane for posting this, just a couple of questions, 1. Is there a map of the new Shipwrights Way walk available on the internet or printed and available at the Parish Office? 2. I am really pleased there is more funding available to clear up litter as it is definitely getting worse in the village. When we moved here about 12 years ago I am sure there used to be a road sweeper clearing the streets. I think he was dispensed with due to cost cutting. Would it be possible to employ someone to walk round with one of the large push along vacuum type sweepers to pick up the rubbish? It may help with the dog fouling issues too if there were someone employed in street cleaning. Many thanks Katy See www.shipwrights.org.uk for map and details

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Jane Ives (5th Apr 2013 - 14:29:23) Katy The editor has posted the link as requested. With regards to litter, it has not yet been agreed how the extra funding will be spent. But there is clearly an issue that needs to be looked at. Incidentally, there is a Litter Pick day on Sunday 28th April being organised by the Parish Council and Liphook in Bloom - all volunteers will be most welcome!

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Cllr Anthony Williams (5th Apr 2013 - 15:33:30) Dear Cllr Ives Thank you for the link to the Minutes of your most interesting APM, which I attended (front row next to Ferris Cowper). Do you also have a link to the Accounts of the Parish Council? I asked Mr Stanley for a copy that evening but was told that they were not available, and I cannot find them on the PCs website (for any year). Many thanks Anthony Williams

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Jane Ives (5th Apr 2013 - 15:58:19) Cllr Williams, I believe you are from Headley Parish Council? (just so that anyone reading this knows you are not a councillor in Liphook) I think this is what you are after - bramshottandliphook-pc.gov.uk/... Please do contact the parish office for any questions on the accounts as they are posted by the staff there. I can't answer questions on the accounts as I am not qualified to do so. Kind Regards Jane Ives

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Katy B (6th Apr 2013 - 08:16:48) Thanks ed for posting the link for the walk. Thanks Jane re: the extra funding, please can you update on here when the decision has been made how to tackle the litter issue and where the money will be spent. I am aware of the litter pick and have joined in, in previous years. I hope lots of the Councillors will be there to show their support too!

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Cllr Anthony Williams (6th Apr 2013 - 12:07:43) Dear Cllr Ives Thank you for your prompt response to my enquiry as to the location of B&LPCs Annual Accounts. Armed with your link I was able to locate the 2011 Accounts, although when using the Parish Council's website I still cannot locate them - perhaps you have to type in something other than "Accounts" in the search box? You are correct in pointing out that I am a Headley Councillor (as I mentioned at the meeting, but not in my email). Again, thanks for your help Anthony Williams

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Jane Ives (6th Apr 2013 - 14:56:51) Cllr Williams....to access the financial information go to the PC website, choose Parish Council from the top menu, then Publication Scheme. Class 2 is the financial information you are looking for. Kind Regards Jane Ives

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Kevin Jackson (7th Apr 2013 - 20:19:55) Cllr Ives, why do you keep referring anyone who asks a question to the parish office. The whole idea of putting items on Liphook Talkback is to bring matters into the public domain, not behind the doors of the parish office. Any other council worth its salt, particularly one who has a sitting parish councillor who promotes "honesty and transparency", would publish its accounts on the web. Actually they should have been circulated either before or at the APM so that members of the public could read, inwardly digest and if appropriate, ask questions at the meeting. In that way the public can see for itself from where money comes and on what it is spent. You provide a link which is commendable, but it rather begs the question as to why a link has to be published at all. I would have thought public documents could be accessed through the parish council web site. However, that being said I did click on the link you provided and the last set of accounts is 2011. Where are the accounts for 2012? Are they going to be published soon? Also how can one find out from the accounts the breakdown of the £31,000 and the details of where such a large sum was appropriated? It could be that not all of it was spent between 2011 and 2012 and if this is the case, in which set of accounts will the breakdown of the £31,000 be shown? It would seem that this money was spent in connection with the dismissal of the parish clerk as referred to by Cllr Croucher at the APM? Please do not suggest I go to the parish office. I am not a selfish person and I do not want to keep all this knowledge to myself. I would like Bramshott and Liphook's electorate to be able to share this information - after all they are the ones whose money has been spent.

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Jane Ives (7th Apr 2013 - 22:31:47) Mr Jackson, I believe I have given all the information that I feel qualified to give. Any detailed information relating to the accounts I am afraid I am not qualified to answer - I am however very keen to have information in the public domain. We have a parish council website which does have all the information that you, and others, are asking about. Far easier for you to read it there and ask pertinent questions, rather than duplicating the information on this website.  I posted the link to try and be helpful....the link is to the parish council website where you can access all the documents anyway. I am not giving you a link to anything that can't already be accessed on the PC website.  Liphook PC does publish it's accounts and the link I gave shows all balance sheets and monthly receipts/payments right up until last month. However, I can see a full set of accounts for 2010/11 as a single document, but after that there are monthly documents up to, and including, 2013. I will find out why this is the case but the clerk is currently on leave so I may not get an answer this week. I will, of course, let you know when I have an answer. There was no requirement for accounts to be published at the Annual Parish Meeting. Below is the recognised definition of the Annual Parish Meeting... "The Annual Parish or Town Meeting is not a council meeting. It is a meeting of the parish or town electors taking place between 1st March and 1st June. Strictly speaking electors can set the agenda, and in practice these meetings often celebrate local activities and debate current issues in the community. The chairman of the council calls the Annual Parish or Town Meeting and, if present, will chair it. It is best practice to hold the Annual Meeting of the Council and the Annual Parish Meeting on different occasions to avoid confusion." The Annual Meeting of the Council will, I believe, be held in May.  With regards to the £31k, I quote from Cllr Croucher's report at the Annual Parish Meeting: "Following two reports from the Accounts & Annual Return Working Party (which are available on the PC’s website) last year, members of the public will be well aware of a number of issues surrounding our previous Clerk. This necessitated the expenditure of some £31K from our Reserves on Professional fees to resolve the situation. However I am happy to report the Council recently set up the Costs Recovery Working Party to recoup this money via claims against our insurance and other third parties." My understanding is that the £31k was spent over a period of time and therefore it may not be easy to work out exactly what it was spent on by working through the accounts. It is all accounted for, that much I do know. In my last post I was simply trying to say that there may be individuals with specific questions and it may be easier to pop into or contact the  parish office to get those questions answered. If they then choose to share that information on here that is entirely their choice.  I appreciate that you do not want to ask the parish office, so I will ask on your behalf.  Trust me, the parish council is very keen to recoup this money and my understanding is that our insurance should cover it. There is very much an awareness of the vast amount of money spent and the necessity to recover it, hence a working party has already been established to do just that.  My personal view is that we do need to recover all monies spent, but our focus should now be on the positive action that is now taking place to make Liphook a better place. I would love to see more people coming along to meetings and asking questions of their parish councillors. There is some really good stuff going on hence why I started this thread.

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Kat (8th Apr 2013 - 19:00:00) Thank you Councillor Ives for pointing me to this thread. I cannot find anything about the Costs Recovery Working Party meetings and where can we see their reports?

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Mike G (9th Apr 2013 - 00:14:04) Yes indeed, thank you Councillor Ives for the clarity that you bring. Parish councillors are unpaid volunteers that have agreed to serve the community in a number of roles. I am disturbed by the level of criticism, largely unwarranted, that is levelled at them. The current council is probably the most community serving, honest and conscientious one we have had in some time. I'd be surprised if some of them do not think it is a thankless task. They are not obliged to post on here, as some seem to think, but increasingly, they do whilst, seemingly, biting their tongue. Thanks BLPC for the voluntary work you do and perhaps some of those that think they know better will stand for election next time around and ask the electorate if they agree.

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Jane Ives (9th Apr 2013 - 07:28:42) Kat Working parties do not have to publish any agenda or minutes according to the rules of the council, nor do they have power to make decisions. They are set up on a short term basis in order to investigate a particular issue. They will then make recommendations to the Council for any decisions required. Please also bear in mind that this working party has only very recently been set up. You should see any recommendations/actions reflected in the minutes of either the Finance/Policy Committee or full PC meetings. Jane Ives

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Kevin Jackson (9th Apr 2013 - 12:25:39) I will try to keep this short and to the point. It seems obvious from Cllr Ives' postings that she is under the impression that I want her to give me information on Liphook Talkback regarding the 2012 accounts. I have never asked her to do that as I totally agree Liphook Talkback is not the place for detail. All I have asked is that they are published on the PC web site. So far they have not appeared, which is why the request keeps being repeated. Michael G, this is in no way a criticsm of Cllr Ives or anyone else, just a very simple request. The clerk was actually asked at the APM if there were a set of accounts and his answer was no, so there is little point in going to the Parish Office. £31,000 is an awful lot of taxpayers 'money and so far, although it has been referred to as being spent "in connection with the Tony Groves, the previous parish clerk's dismissal" and that "a work party is being set up to recover the costs", no breakdown or details have been published. That is all I am asking, not for Cllr Ives or anyone else to give information on Liphook Talkback, just publish the figures. This is public money so it is not too much to ask, or is it?

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Jane Ives (9th Apr 2013 - 13:21:18) Mr Jackson, I can appreciate your frustration but please have a look through my (very) long posting above, in which I believe I have answered your question and said that I would find out the rest of the information for you. I do not think you are asking me to publish accounts information here, but I am trying to tell you that the 2012 accounts are on the PC website as monthly reports. With regards the £31k, the problem, as I understand it, is that it was spent over a period of months and therefore won't be represented necessarily in one set of financial information from 2012. All the balance sheets and receipts and payments for 2012 are on the PC website as I have already said. It's a bit like me saying how much did I spend on groceries last year - I would have to go through all my monthly statements to find the individual amounts and work out which shops I went to, in order to get a final figure. The same principle applies here - the £31k would have been spent over a period of time with payments to different organisations/people etc etc. I'm sure you get the picture! The clerk was asked at the APM if he had a set of accounts and he did indeed say no, but again if you re-read my post above you will see the reasons why. I actually think you would get a quicker answer going to the parish office as the clerk does the accounts and so would probably have the information at his fingertips (but he is on leave this week!). But again as I said above I will ask for you next week and see what I can come up with. Kind Regards Jane Ives

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Peter Richardson (11th Apr 2013 - 19:35:28) As Cllr Ives has brought Headley Parish Council into the equation I contacted their parish office to be told that they have not as yet held their APM which is due to take place on Monday 15 April. However their 2012 accounts have been published and are in the Headley Report which has been delivered to every household in Headley in preparation for the APM. The Headley Report contains all the reports from the various committees and a full set of the current accounts ie 2012 as the Headley parish office feel it is important for written reports and accounts to be in the public domain before the APM to enable their electors to read them prior to the meeting. In that way if questions need to be asked or comments made at the APM, electors can be fully cognisant with the content of the reports and accounts prior to the meeting and if they so wish, attend the APM and ask the said questions. The Headley Parish 2012 accounts are due to go on their web site very shortly, but their parish clerk is also on leave for a week. The accounts are however in the public domain. However having said all that, as far as I know Headley Parish Council have not spent £31,000 of taxpayers money in engineering the dismissal of a parish clerk and while some Headley Parish electors will be interested in the accounts, they will not generate the interest that Bramshott & Liphook' s 2012 accounts are creating. To clarify, the following is what I see on Bramshott & Liphook Parish Council's website. Their Publication page provides three main items of financial information. 1) The 2011 Financial Statements (ie The Accounts) This includes a Balance Sheet with summarised information (page 5), and and an Income & Expenditure Account (page 4) where all the important expenditure is in a single figure - £124051 "Establishment/General Administration". THIS IS NOT BROKEN DOWN. 2) There is a very detailed Budget for 2012/13 which runs to 11 pages and shows all BUDGETTED (not actual) expenditure for the year. Legal fees are estimated as £2000! 3) Each month they prepare a far more detailed Balance Sheet showing cash, assets and liabilities balanced by their various reserves. They do not show (unlike certain other PCs) a monthly list of cheques drawn or income and expenditure by category - only the monthly Balance Sheet. A balance sheet shows what is in the bank, who owes money, who are the debtors less the creditors to whom money is owed and the balance show the reserves at a given date. Accounts show a balance sheet, total income and expenditure for the year and NOTES TO THE ACCOUNTS WHICH GIVE BACKGROUND INFORMATION. That is the important part. So I and others look forward to seeing the 2012 accounts which hopefully will give full details of income and expenditure and how much was paid when and to whom- and we will be patient.

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Jane Ives (11th Apr 2013 - 22:45:43) Peter I have read your posting and I have looked at Headley Parish Council's website which is very informative. I personally think their idea of circulating all the reports to every household is a good one, I would worry about the taxpayer cost of doing this but it would certainly be a good way of informing all residents what is happening. My head is saying cost of paper, printing, delivering....but I do think the example is a good one. Your other points need clarification and I will hope to get some answers next week on what Liphook PC do and don't publish. Of course, if you want to phone and speak to the clerk yourself next week on his return from leave you are perfectly at liberty to do so as you have done with Headley PC. Incidentally the monthly receipts and cheque payments are on the Liphook PC....keep scrolling down past the Balance Sheets and you will find them. Regards Jane Ives

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Dawn Hoskins (11th Apr 2013 - 23:18:37) Dear Peter Richardson, The money spent on bringing in independent professionals was precisely so we could defend ourselves both personally and as a corporate body against any allegation that any one of us had anything to do with the decision making process. Three independent people went in cold, to make their own assessments. They did this without any intervention from any parish councillor. The number of people coming forward meant they had a vast amount of reading and investigating to do. You may not agree with their findings, but they are the ones that took all the countless witness statements and trawled through the paperwork - not you Mr Richardson. I do therefore find your statement that the parish council has somehow engineering the dismissal of the former parish clerk quite laughable. Had the parish council conducted the investigation and disciplinary, which it was quite entitled to do as the employer, I would have feared this criticism. We did not want to spend this money, but due to people making statements (such as yours) we knew that we had to step back and let the professionals do it. What makes me very sad is that the whole issue keeps getting regurgitated. We have a fabulous council and lots a great staff. We are doing very good work in the parish and it would be so nice to look forwards instead of constantly being drawn back.

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Peter Richardson (12th Apr 2013 - 20:41:54) Cllr Ives I do not know why you are worrying about cost to the taxpayer incurred by producing and circulating the Headley Report once a year to every household in Headley so that they can be informed of what the parish council has been doing in the past year. You would do better to worry about the £31,000 of taxpayers' money that Bramshott and Liphook have spent in achieving the dismissal of the parish clerk. I deplore Dawn Hoskins' remark that it is "laughable". There is nothing laughable about that situation. However returning to the The Headley Report this is delivered by volunteers at no cost the the taxpayer and in addition, if you read it, you will see that a great many people advertise in it, so I am sure that most, if not all the costs of printing and paper will be recouped. Dawn Hoskins All you say may be true, but if that is the case and the actions of the parish council were so justified, why is there no breakdown of how the £31,000 was spent in the accounts and I don't mean the list monthly receipts and payments. It should be shown in properly audited accounts. So large a sum cannot be brushed under the carpet and sooner or later details of what was spent and to whom, has to be published in the accounts. Until there is transparency the whole matter will continue to be regurgitated. Finally I would say this. I am not saying whether the need to bring in professionals was justified or not. I am not in a position to judge. I am not saying whether or not I agree with their findings. What I am saying is this. The reasons for the clerk’s dismissal are not clear and have never been made clear. The only reason which was made public for his dismissal was an accusation of “bullying”. This cannot be the only reason and the parish council have consistently avoided stating the reasons for his ultimate dismissal first of all by “hiding behind” the words “sub judice” and then stating that the clerk himself did not want the reasons made public. We have had to be content with this unsatisfactory state of affairs. However £31,000 of taxpayers’ money is a different matter and eventually on what it was spent and to whom must be put in the public domain. So Dawn you can continue to write postings alluding to “a fabulous council and lots of great staff” but it will not change anything. It might be a fabulous council with great staff, but nobody can move forward until the past is put to bed once and for all and that can only be done with 100% honesty and transparency. For instance how much were SW19 Solicitors, (I think that was the name of the firm dealing with the dismissal of the parish clerk), paid in full and how much was Pauline Lucas, briefly employed by the parish council in respect of Human Resources paid, among others etc etc – I could go on. Cllr Ives says in her post to me that "Your (meaning mine) other points need clarification". You bet they do.

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Dawn Hoskins (12th Apr 2013 - 22:06:06) Every single penny spent by the Parish Council is accounted for in a public manner on a monthly basis. It is in black and white - just go and ask for it in the right place. That is the Parish Office.

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - H (13th Apr 2013 - 12:22:02) Do not forget that electioneering is about to begin and two councillors from Bramshott and Liphook are standing in the forthcoming District and Council elections. One is standing for Headley in the County Council elections for the Liberal Democrats and one is standing for the County Council in Bordon and the District Council in Liss. Of course the Conservatives want to blacken names of those who are standing against them. It is just political shenanigans and that is why Councillor Anthony Williams, District Councillor for Headley was at the Bramshott Meeting. It was not really open for him as a resident of Headley. The Chair Person of the Council could have refused to let him ask questions. Of course as his wife, Mrs Williams is an estate agent for Keats in Liphook and greatly concerned about future housing in Liphook, there is perhaps another reason he takes an interest in Liphook. Who knows?

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Peter Richardson (13th Apr 2013 - 13:37:58) Let us just wait for the audited 2012 accounts to be published. In that way one doesn't have to plough through 11 pages of figures - Income and Expenditure will all be shown in the accounts. After all that is what accounts are for.

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Dawn Hoskins (15th Apr 2013 - 09:20:33) I would like to clarify my comment as Peter Richardson has chosen to misinterpret it completely. I do NOT say that spending £31,000 is laughable and have never done so. . The Parish Council were already, at that time, in a litigious position and then, in addition, received whistle-blowing reports. This was not a laughing matter and not one which anyone of us felt we should deal with without professional assistance. What I do find laughable Mr Richardson, is YOUR statement that the Parish Council 'Engineered' the dismissal. I hope that is clear. Also, in relation to costs, every month these are printed out in full. That is every light-bulb, every electricity bill and every toilet roll accounted for. In addition the monthly balance sheet IS published on-line. Go to the 'publication scheme' tab (under Parish Council) and then to the financial information which from memory is a 'class 2' information publication. bramshottandliphook-pc.gov.uk/publication-scheme/publication-scheme-class-2

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Peter Richardson (15th Apr 2013 - 11:53:31) If certain members of L&BPC did not and I will not use the word "engineer" but substitute the word achieve the clerk's dismissal, then I don't know who did. A lot of time, effort and money was spent in achieving this. I am not interested in trawling through lists of figures looking for expenditure on light bulbs etc. There is one payment of something like four thousand pounds listed as being paid to the solicitors SW19 who were employed in the legal proceedings. The correct procedure is for audited accounts to be published showing exactly on what the thirty one thousands pounds was spent, not mixed up in pages of of other expenditure. The purpose of balance sheets was explained in detail in a previous post so I am not going to repeat that all over again. There is little point in going to the parish office probably only to be to as someone was at the APM that there were no accounts. Plus the fact that if the information is in the parish office it should be published for all electors to see.

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Frances White (15th Apr 2013 - 12:04:42) I simply cannot understand the motivation of some of the posters on this site - who cannot look forward but must always look at past issues. I was in Radford Park yesterday afternoon - and admired the new steps which have been installed there. These steps are a super job and have made walking in the park much easier. Thank you Parish Council for these and all the other work which is carried out throughout the village under your instigation. The Parish Council work in a completely voluntary capacity and I am always interested in why some of the detractors who shout the loudest about the failings of the Council don't take the initiative and put themselves up for election. Some of the posters here are just thoroughly unpleasant and seem to be only interested in stirring up old issues.

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - H (15th Apr 2013 - 12:05:06) Parish Councillors are the employers and responsible for ALL the staff who work for the council. Staff matters are usually dealt with by employers are they not? The same UK employment legislation applies to all employees and employers of any local authority.

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Jane Ives (15th Apr 2013 - 12:30:19) The issues surrounding the former clerk were always, and will continue to be, divisive. I really do feel that we must as a Parish Council, and a community, move on from this. Like it or not the former clerk is no longer employed by the parish council and we need to focus on the future. Frances, I was also in Radford Park at the weekend and admired the new steps...certainly stopped me sliding down the slopes in all that mud! Radford Park development is part of the council's plans for the future and I personally feel very excited about helping to preserve this beautiful area. Peter, to return to the accounts, because the spend was over a protracted period of time all the amounts may not be represented in one set of accounts. Also, please let's stick to the facts here. No-one at the APM said that there were no accounts, but that the accounts were not available to hand out on that night as they were not, or needed to be, part of that meeting. Of course the council has a set of accounts. I have, as promised, been in touch with the parish council office to ask when these are likely to be published. Your patience would be appreciated while I get an answer for you.

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Dawn Hoskins (15th Apr 2013 - 13:12:59) Audited accounts ARE published. both on-line and in paper format. I do not know why you are saying that they are not?!

Re: Reports from Annual Parish Meeting 25th March 2013 - Kat (19th Apr 2013 - 18:08:49) Peter R Picked up the Liphook Herald on my way home and you will get some answers from the article on the front about the £31,000. They have quoted from a report from an auditor. Interesting reading as the paper says a figure of £42,000 and the costs could be as much as £80,000.

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