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Carnival Chaos - phil wilson (29th Oct 2007 - 22:00:54) Although it seems that the Liphook Carnival 2007 was a huge success there are some counter arguments to this opinion. I cannot believe that as supposedly 'sensible' retailers the Co-Op refused to stop selling alcohol depsite the advice of Hampshire Constabulary. I would imagine that their head office would much rather lose sales on alcohol for one night of the year, rather than lose their licence. It was blatantly obvious on the night that there were a number of drink-induced teenagers who had bought alcohol from the Co-Op (ie bottles of own-brand vodka lying in the gutters). I find it hard to believe that a national retailer like Sainsburys (well done JS) were able to prohibit the sale of alcohol on this one night but the Co-Op were seemingly unwilling. Granted the Co-Op were not the only supplier of alcohol to underage drinkers, but this put a dampener on the event for me. The hundreds of youths who were milling around in Sainsburys car park were not in Liphook (many of them not even from the village) for the carnival, rather they were looking for fights (I saw some wealding baseball bats). Hardly a friendly, family event. Sainsburys closed their doors well before 8pm due to the trouble that could have potentially occurred. Don't get me wrong, I think the Carnival is a fantastic yearly event, but I really think that other retailers need to pay heed to Police advice and stop the sale of alcohol for this one night.

Re: Carnival Chaos - Sue W (30th Oct 2007 - 09:40:16) Phil I understand what you are saying and it is a problem area, ANY retail outlet selling to underage is not acceptable. Would closing all outlets stop drinking - I doubt it. Perhaps it would make it slightly more difficult but would not erradicate it -unfortunately. I walked back along the Midhurst Road, down Station Road, and Many people - Adults had cans or bottles - none of them causing trouble and some obviouisly had popped out of their homes to enjoy the event. There are responsible young (over age) who enjoy the carnival, and having a social drink. There were a number of 'kids' trying to buy drink during the afternoon - so in reality those selling should really stop at lunchtime - I do not think that would be a right and just move. We saw them at the fair drinking at about 5.00 - so they were well on their way then!! Yes there was a problem at the fair with youngsters (under 16) and aloc-pops etc but I also think there was a much greater level of police and community officers here to deal with it promptly - something I hope others noticed too. As far a I am aware, the man with a 'base ball bat' was arrested (and I do believe that it wasnt a real one - someones joke that had gone too far), and I think he got more than he expected!!

Re: Carnival Chaos - Jonathon Taylor (31st Oct 2007 - 08:59:36) Well done on creating a debate on the alternative side to the carnival. Unfortunately, I did not find the carnival anything other than an excuse for certain teenagers to create more havoc around the Green and surrounding area. Outside my house, 3 guys came from a certain estate, pretty drunk, and used my neighbours wall as a urinal. Bottles and cans were lobbed around gardens. They spent quite a time generally sitting in the middle of the road (I was hoping someone would drive a little too fast, for once!), playing MP3's on their mobiles at full, tinny volume and shouting obsenities at passer's-by with children walking to the fun fair. Later, they were climbing my wall and throwing things at windows. Then of course, the person who's car was overturned in Midhurst Road may have an alternative view of the carnival - basically it gives an excuse for some people to fully engage in anti-social behaviour. Presumably we will have knife-crime at the carnival next year, the way things are going in Liphook at the moment. Sadly, the fun-fair is a rip-off. £2.50 for shoddy rides, aimed at the target kiddy market. God help the residents of Montreal Walk. Given the above, perhaps the carnival organisers could take some time next year to consider the total effect of the carnival on the community. If they can't assure everyone that it will be orderly, safe and NOT encourage violence and aggression, then it should NOT be held again. And it is high time the rip-off fun-fair be challenged, plus it's location. On the other hand, I would fully welcome any community event that is properly arranged, located, and managed. It is a shame the a discrete element (well know to the police) is ruining this for everyone and we cannot be deterred by this. But unless it is curbed, Liphook has no right to hold events that breed anti-social behaviour.

Re: Carnival Chaos - liz (31st Oct 2007 - 10:37:07) Don't be naive - all funfairs are rip-offs and aimed at the kids. Trying to persuade M&D to part with a few quid. - I doubt many residents (except perhaps a few very new ones) object to the fair on the green for couple of nights. I don't for a minute think the Carnival should be stopped just because of a bunch of hooligans and I don't think it is the responsibility of the Carnival Committee to police them. ....Or perhaps we should just all hide behind our locked gates and let the hoodies take over.

Re: Carnival Chaos - Jonathon T (31st Oct 2007 - 13:42:18) Sorry, but I disagree. The carnival HAS contributed to anti-social behaviour, therefore the organisers cannot shirk this responsibility. I am well aware that all fun-fairs are a rip-off. I take it you don't live in Montreal Walk then. (Nor do I, by the way). I only become a NIMBY when I have people on my 9ft wall urinating into my garden and vandalising my cars. We are each entitled to our opinions, that's what makes this forum useful.

Re: Carnival Chaos - Rhys G (31st Oct 2007 - 13:57:47) I don’t think, as Liz said, it is the Carnival Committee’s job to police the yobs that are attracted to such a spectacular and popular event. The proportion of yobs to the number of people that attended and really enjoyed the event has got to be small. We can’t just stop a 100 year tradition because of a few immature and irresponsible drinkers (under or over aged) feel the need to cause a little inconvenience. Well done the Carnival Committee.

Re: Carnival Chaos - Karen Feeney (31st Oct 2007 - 14:21:42) Dear Jonathon T I do try very hard to refrain from reading Talkback as much as possible as some of the comments posted can be very upsetting and a little infuriating. However, as Chairperson of the Liphook Carnival and Bonfire Committee I feel compelled to respond to some of the criticism that we have received on this thread. As you can imagine the Carnival takes many months to plan and in the run up to this year's Carnival I actually had 4 separate meetings with the Police to discuss numerous subjects and obviously safety issues. The wellbeing of visitors to the Carnival is paramount and we therefore take every possible precaution to ensure that the many, many families, children, elderly (ie. the people that we are mainly staging the Carnival for) can come and safely enjoy the evenings festivities. However, whilst I take on board the comments you have made, I am not completely convinced that you can blame the Carnival for anti-social behaviour in Liphook, after all, the youths in the Midhurst Road Car Park needed no Carnival spirit to execute their worst on some poor innocent victims car, just it would seem the type that comes from a bottle (one assumes). I am afraid that, dare I say it, a 'minority of the youth of today' are, it would seem, hellbent on causing as much disruption as possible. But as liz has said, 'do we just hide behind our locked gates and let the hoodies take over'? I am dreadfully sorry that you experienced such problems on Carnival night, did you phone the police? We had a much higher police presence this year including traffic police and a motor bike so that we could respond to any situation much quicker than in previous years. I have heard of a handful of minor incidences and will be meeting with the police for a follow up discussion very soon. I will obviously bring this matter to their attention. However, the Carnival in Liphook has now been running for 105 years, I am absolutely determind that it will continue for as long again despite the efforts of a few mindless idiots who try and spoil everything for everyone else. Of course, we have to take into consideration all the elements, but I can absolutely assure you that the Carnival is, and always will be, properly organised, arranged and managed. Karen Feeney

Re: Carnival Chaos - Jax Hunt (31st Oct 2007 - 16:05:37) Karen, Well said! As an active participant in the Carnival - The Motley Crew - I would like to congratulate the committee for such a lovely event each year. We cannot stop doing things because some of the younger element would like to ruin it for others. Life is full of serious issues and the carnival lets the village show it's community spirit and sheer enjoyment of something completely silly. Does Jonathon know how long the planning and making takes for each of the floats and costumes? Maybe he needs to get out and get involved in either the committee, getting a group together to 'out do' the Deer's Hut or even just get a collecting tin on the night and walk the procession. Cheers, Jax

Re: Carnival Chaos - liz (31st Oct 2007 - 16:12:32) Well said Karen. The trouble is there without the Carnival. If anyone hasn't seem youths urinating on walls/fences before in Liphook they either haven't been here long or don't go out much. (Sad, Im afraid but true.) It is just a nasty minority and I'm sure they're not all from Liphook judging by what goes on at the Railway station. The Carnival committee seems to have done the best it can to ensure adequate policing (there seemed to be more police around than on previous years). The Carnival is not responsible for delinquent behaviour and the committee deserve our thanks for all the hard work they put into what is a very enjoyable evening for a large number of people.

Re: Carnival Chaos - G Renouf (31st Oct 2007 - 21:09:58) Just trying to cast my mind back when the carnival bonfire and fair used to be held down the headley road I think "Tilston Meadow" Was there any trouble? I cannot remember any maybe some harmless fun ( note HARMLESS ) . The trouble is not the fault of the carnival, trouble I am sorry to say is a part of modern life I wish it wasnt but that is the way it is . The carnival is now the only event that seems to bring the whole population of the village out ( I sure somebody will point out I am wrong ) we no longer have a village fete We need events like this to keep the village a village One thing cars where still going throught the village when they should not have been , would a more physical road block be in order ? and not moved until the proper times . on a lighter note well done to everyone who worked on the carnival and took part.Looking forward to next year. Has anybody have photos of the viking ship the " Crazy Lads " made several years back.

Re: Carnival Chaos - Chris Taylor (1st Nov 2007 - 06:01:15) Whereas Jonathan highlights examples of a disturbing trend that sees bad behaviour as something admired and subject to ever increasing scales of vileness we cannot hold the carnival committee responsible for policing it by any stretch of the imagination. There is a simple solution which can start with banning alcohol sales on the night, a duty which all local outlets that have taken on the responsibility to supply alcohol should do as a matter of course. Drinking on the streets is still illegal in this country and with such a huge police presence it's difficult to see how the exploits of these out of towners weren't dealt with. With supermarkets competing to see who can provide the most booze for least money, it's hardly surprising that even the youngest, least financially able can get tanked up for next to nothing these days. And if a ban on alcohol sales for a three hour period sticks in the craw of any sensible adults, especially when town centre access restrictions have been advertised for days before the carnival, then tough! Perhaps when reviewing the situation with the police, this can be emphasised.

Re: Carnival Chaos - Lesley (1st Nov 2007 - 14:08:01) Just wanted to add my two pen’th, Just because these incidents happened in Liphook, it doesn’t mean it was liphook “Yoofs” who were responsible. It’s been a known fact for many many years that the bad lads (and girls) from Liss, Haslemere, Headly, Bordon & Whitehill all make a bee-line to Liphook in an effort to cause trouble at the Carnival – Its not just teenagers either! They know that by the time the “old bill” arrives they can be long gone or even on the train home. So please don’t think these problems were only caused by Liphook kids. Although I would agree that some need to be sorted out! Stopping local shops selling alcohol would do absolutely nothing as they would simply bring it with them. Did you know that some even bring a boot load of beer and sell it to the kids for a profit – this is a fact!. Also, have you not seen the parents buying six packs of Alco-pops – specifically for their teenage kids! (I bet some of you reading this will admit that you have also done this). How many parents ignore it when their kids arrive home wrecked on a weekend let alone Carnival night – They couldn’t give a toss! Perhaps, if these kids were banged up for the nights at HM Pleasure, then get their parents out of bed to come and collect them – it may make them think about their behaviour a little more. Basically, if you band alcohol in the village, they would only bring there own and therefore the problem would still persist. To quote Homer Simpson “Alcohol - the cause and solution to all life’s problems”

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