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Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Scott (4th Dec 2025 - 10:43:16) Ok, so, instead of trying to hijack another post about a very sadly now lost Ice cream business, lets start the informed (hopefully) debate about the Pros and Cons of the Reform UK party. Or come to think of it any other party apart from Cons/Lab (we've covered them enough, yawn!)you care to promote. Do some research though and I request you have read at least some of their policies or manifestos and not just going to quote the big soundbite captions. This should be good. Does anyone want to grab the baton and start us off😊

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Charlie (4th Dec 2025 - 12:32:07) I, for the first time in my life do not know, if there was a General Election tomorrow, who I would vote for. The Conservatives deserved all they received in the last election. To compound that they have proved themselves to be a useless and in effectual opposition. This present Labour Government must be one of worst ever elected in it’s history and Keir Starmer the worst Prime Minister of all time. The Liberals, although they do well in local elections, are also ineffectual as is their leader Ed Davey. So we are left with the Reform Party which really is a “one-trick pony” party. If Farage should decide throw in the towel, the party would collapse. However, while he is leader and he is a populist one, Reform’s popularity seems to grow but I have grave concerns about some of their MP’s, candidates and supporters. Two examples. On 26 March 2021, Mr Nathan Gill became Leader of The Reform Party in Wales and then a candidate in the Senedd election in North Wales but was not elected. He has now left the Reform UK, but in 2025 Mr Gill pleaded guilty to eight charges relating to the acceptance of bribes from a former pro-Russia Ukrainian politician to make pro-Russian statements in the European Parliament and to the media. In November he was sentenced to ten-and-a-half years in prison. I appreciate that by then he was no longer a member of The Reform Party, but he is an example of the sort of person I would not like to see running our Country. Reform seems to attract them. What he did was appalling and do we, as a country, really want people of that calibre in positions of power. Another example of unsuitable people involved in The Reform Party was Ms Pochin, MP for Runcorn and Helsby. During a TV phone-in in October 2025, she agreed with a caller's complaint about advertising and actually said: "It drives me mad when I see adverts full of black people, full of Asian people". She later apologised. Don’t get me wrong, I think there definitely should be controlled legal immigration, and deportation when deemed necessary, but in my opinion The Reform Party has too many "hard right" supporters and members and a “hard right” triggers a “hard left”. So Scott, in conclusion I do not have any answers or a magic wand.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Simon (4th Dec 2025 - 12:47:36) Nice one Scott. I'm politically homeless, am keen to find out what others offer that isn't just a headline.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Paul2 (4th Dec 2025 - 13:19:59) Hey Scott, I'll make a start. I don't care if people shoot me down, I've a thick skin! It's a good question. Importantly, I fear many voters never really understand how any parties policies match to their own beliefs and preferences. As an example - I work in STEM, it's vital to economic growth, and we only have to look at other global economies to see how important STEM is to them. I've never voted Reform, but I do agree with their education policy which proposed scrapping tuition fees for STEM degrees. To me, personally, I see the logic in that incentive. Not saying it's going to sway my vote, but it is but one example where understanding what's important to me as a voter helps me understand what parties are proposing (or not).

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Charlie (4th Dec 2025 - 15:34:46) One more example which makes me very wary of Reform. A Reform UK council leader Ian Cooper, the leader of Staffordshire County Council has been accused of racism after allegedly describing Sadiq Khan as a “narcissistic Pakistani” and saying a black British lawyer should have “F’d off back to Nigeria”. He is also accused of attacking the justice secretary, David Lammy, in a social media post that said: “No foreign national or first generation migrant should be allowed to sit in parliament.” There were many more instances of this man’s insulting behaviour – too many. Cooper is only one of Reform UK councillors who have been exposed for their extreme views. It’s particularly shocking that someone in a leadership position has not been vetted sufficiently – or perhaps Farage and his party think this is an acceptable way to behave? I would find it impossible to associate with a party that includes people who promote this sort of racial hatred. Paul2 I looked at STEM - very interesting. However if Reform's Policy is proposing scrapping tuition fees for STEM degrees who is going to pick up the tab? Not the already overburdened working taxpayer I hope.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Scott (4th Dec 2025 - 17:25:06) Thank you for the contributions so far, it makes for sensible,factual, interesting reading. I have some issues with their idea of completely cancelling the UK's commitment to net zero and instead are more devoted to a more independant energy future by trying to access more drilling fields in the north sea and overturning the moratorium on fracking. If this particular ruling was overturned by a Reform government the consequences of fracking are extremely signifcant. I certainly would object to any sites on the grounds of making the widespread geology to a given site unstable. Does anyone fancy a site anywhere in Hampshire or within shouting distance of Liphook?! A broad opinion of climate change by many of the Reform party is that its a naturally occuring phenomenon. Echoes of thoughts from across the pond. Any more thoughts on the whole thread to build some perspective and knowledge will be very well received. This is the chance to really nail what anyone feels strongly about or not relating to the alternative parties to the main two.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Scott (5th Dec 2025 - 11:08:34) Reform do have some interesting ideas on how to reduce waiting times within the NHS and how to streamline the 'business'. This is surely relevant to just about everbody. The main crux of it being reducing gp appointment times and long waits for hospital diagnosis and then on to surgery by utilising the private sector. I personally feel that could have some mileage but how they are going to fund it is a serious concern and I couldn't really find a plausible, detailed analysis on how they intend to see it through. Private entity surgery is obviously extremely expensive which is why we love our NHS ,its free at point of use although we pay in theory for it through our working lives with NI contributions. But its swamped and broken and not running efficiently. So can we simply opt out going forward and would it just be simpler where possible if you have the means to only pay into a private healthcare policy to do so and reduce the ever growing unreachable goals that are placed on the NHS every year. Its well worth a read on this particular subject and quite easy to seek out even the most basic info on it.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Oldie (5th Dec 2025 - 11:54:26) The way I see it looking at history the only times this country flourish was when private enterprise was supported. You have to have wealth to support everything no good hammering the people that employ everyone. If the country creates wealth then everyone benefits. So looking at that through history the conservatives have done the best for everyone so if they could get their act together they would be our best bet. No good having inexperienced politicians in charge as we have at the moment the reform lot are not ready to form a government some good ideas they have but not enough of them to run a country. Perhaps if they toned down a bit and joined the conservatives we might get a good government.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Scott (5th Dec 2025 - 13:08:21) Hi Oldie I agree with you completely on the growth/wealth point. The two go hand in hand and should lead in time to a more positive, prosperous and stable economy which would benefit everybody. We've really been lacking in that upward direction for some years now. And you are right I think about some of Reforms ideas, they seem to be slightly new thinking but, like you, I think they would struggle running the country if voted in without a thorough knowledge on what it would take to do it. The movement in regards to Reform/Cons joining up is very distant, as it appears the majority of defectors are one way from Tory to Reform and I expect thats a step too far for many hard and firm Tories apart from the ones who want to jump from a sinking ship as it were to a new potential front runner.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Oldie (5th Dec 2025 - 13:45:02) Yes Scott all about right. Someone must grip the nettle as they say . Nigel Farage is a very strong MP the sort of man that’s needed but he needs to calm down a bit . If he could stand back and take stock and rally the conservatives around him I think they could form a formidable party a bit like Mrs T . His thoughts on migration and benefits are spot on the country would back him but that doesn’t run a country he needs some very experienced MPs behind him especially a chancellor that knows what they’re doing. Your right the business in the country need help lower taxes lower rates farmers need help not taxed to the hilt. Get the people back in the work place not on benefits. It’s not rocket science as they say . Incentives to start new ventures and very important curb the Union’s they are ruining the country.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Paul2 (6th Dec 2025 - 09:29:16) Replying to 2 points Charlie - the comments made by Cooper about Khan, and who would pay for STEM tuition fees. Firstly, if we're going to compare statements lets not forget what Labour Councillor Ricky Jones said. Unfortunately the hard Left have a long history of saying really sickening things about people with opposing views - but get a free pass from the Left-leaning MSM. Secondly, I agree STEM is valuable to the country and agree with trying to find ways of incentivising students to take up STEM courses. I don't have access to Govt Dept budgets but (a) I'll bet there are bloated civil service departments that need reducing, and (b) we could spend less on benefits and handouts as a country and support those who aspire rather than those who scrounge, or (c) how about cutting foreign aid and looking after the UK first?

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Scott (6th Dec 2025 - 11:22:56) Again, thank you for the contributions so far. After 48 hours of me creating the thread I am slightly surprised that the usual people that take over nearly every other thread with 'the 2 main parties that have swapped governance for the previous decades are all rubbish so lets vote Reform' phrasing , normally in capital letters to emphasise their point have not surfaced at all, that makes their case a little bit flimsy without coming forward with any substance. Thats a shame, this is their opportunity to really convince people of how they think said party will improve the UK at home and on a global stage. So please, refrain from doing it unless you could please put some meat on the bone. It would be really nice at this point to hear some other opinions on other parties voters views on Lib/dem, The Green party policies or whoever to see if maybe going forward we can compile ourselves some really strong sensible points as we all seem to like and equally dislike many policies with our historically long allegiances to a particular party. Who knows, cherry picking good fruit from all the parties we could come up with a new hybrid incarnation of all thats gone before. Just a thought. Devision is never the way forward, within sports teams, business or in the home. To move forward successfully cohesion and sometimes a little amicable compromise is the most rewarding and productive way to advance. A slightly playful digression, for sure, we're not about to launch a new party or plot to otherthrow a government from Talkback, this bits just for kicks. Power to the people indeed ✌️

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Paul2 (6th Dec 2025 - 13:01:08) On the Lib Dems - basically they are a protest party. How could anyone take Ed Davey seriously, given his role in the Post Office / Horizon scandal. Or that the last time we were allowed free elections, the Lib Dems fielded a candidate from Crawley on the area - basically trying anything to get someone into post anywhere.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Oldie (6th Dec 2025 - 13:59:44) Yes an interesting debate reminds me of debating at school back in the fifties. Our captain used to say you have to convince the opposition that black is white or the opposite. Have said history has proven that and I will say a good conservative government was best the last lot lost their way . There are some very experienced MPs about. This government was voted in by the young voters believing the drivel that was fed to them. As said bring together the experienced MPs and I would like it under a conservative umbrella. Send Boris to America he gets on with Trump get some good trade deals done. Stand up to the EU we can do better than cow down to them. Strong people in charge that’s what we need.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Scott (6th Dec 2025 - 18:12:08) Hi Oldie Many thanks for your views again. As much as I love freedom of speech and will always defend it I am also a firm believer of staying on topic. So we get it, and its clear you are a passionate and probably lifelong supporter of the Conservatives, I have no problem with that, its your choice. We can also tell you dislike Labour with an equal amount of passion. Please, this is about the alternatives to those two parties as it will be a very long time before the Tories have another shot at the big time and Labour are currently sinking themselves in polls. This is about exploring alternatives and how non Tory or Labour voters think there may be another solution to running the country and addressing the inherant problems. I do respect what you are saying but there has been plenty of airtime given to those two parties over the decades and we are still in the place we are in as a direct result of the two them. We are obvs closer to 2050 than we are to 1950 and maybe its time to look forward with a different mindset. This is genuinely asking for the perceived pros and cons of the alternatives and how people can relate to their policies they are offering us. I am obviously aware that what they offer and what they actually do when in power can be completely different, we have too many examples from previous and this current government of which we don't need to go over again.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Oldie (6th Dec 2025 - 23:06:46) Thanks Scott yes I take your point but yes but I did suggest a different format of government with all the experienced MPs that’s my point we have tried the new type with this government it’s not working it’s no good trying the other parties because they haven’t the experience to govern . We have had all the new people with new ideas no good. It’s sometimes better to look back and learn from the past and take the best and yes form a new party but it must represent the people. And govern to make this country great again not pander to the minority. It’s been done before yes I’m going to say it Mrs T in her prime did it . Can we have another one please. I think this is still on topic.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - M (7th Dec 2025 - 06:23:42) Agree with Oldie, very well put other than Boris he's had his day. Nigel also gets on with Trump so he's able to get great trade deals given the chance. Scott it appears that you would like to control the narrative of free speech in a political debate, it's not a debate with your approach and attitude.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - D (7th Dec 2025 - 08:55:19) M, hear hear. Control freak comes to mind.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Scott (7th Dec 2025 - 09:30:32) Hi M I really don't want to control the narrative in the slightest. I just feel that the two main parties have had so much conversation around them and people on others threads keep throwing the vote Reform line in whenever they can. So I titled the thread 'Alternatives to the main two' its quite clear ,in the hope that they may come forward and show they have some understanding of some of their other policies and how they can relate to them and have some positive effect on the average person on the street other than just the main headliners about immigration and asylum issues. As yet, we are still waiting, that I find really quite strange and slightly worrying. The thought of the population joyfully running to the ballot box next time around and voting in an untested party based on their pretty much single policy on entry and staying in the UK is frankly absurd. So, I was asking, again, what do people actually think about the rest of their policies and if nothing comes from that, then just stop writing Vote Reform on any other topic ranging from local elections through to an ice cream post and everything in between because there is no depth to it. Of course a conversation about broader politics including Labour and Conservatives is relevant and topical, but thats not what I have asked about and frankly we've done enough already on those and voters should know and remember what they are getting already with them. And in fact, we know so very well about them the likes of Reform are probably going to steamroller them next time around.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Scott (7th Dec 2025 - 09:37:44) Thank you for your input D A great one liner as always, I respect and love you dearly, theres no con"trolling" you for sure👍

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - D (7th Dec 2025 - 10:39:00) Credit where it's due, that was a very good come back.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Oldie (7th Dec 2025 - 18:01:58) Thanks M you could be right about Boris but he was a good PM until he got stabbed in the back. Nigel I think could make a good PM he’s in the mould of Mrs T takes no prisoners remember Mrs T smacking the French President with her handbag that’s what we need. But Nigel would have to get the best possible people around him experienced MPs that’s why I said send Boris to America with Nigel in the hot seat they would just gel . The next thing is a very good chancellor that’s a head ache but I’m sure someone of the old brigade would come forward. With loads of experience. Anyway it’s all conjecture but I just hope that something comes up to steady the ship.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - M (8th Dec 2025 - 03:59:16) Scott You say " just stop writing vote Reform". That's exactly my point you seem to be getting frustrated with the consensus doing this, hence my comment of stop trying to control the narrative. If you listen to Nigel and his supporters they almost daily appear in a news conference, just a couple of days ago they were in Falkirk with another Tory defector. You can't say that they aren't developing and working hard. No doubt you'll say Reform are Tories playing musical chairs but they are gaining experienced members and public support. Almost anything is better than this Shower of s.....but Reform isn't " anything" they have some very sound policies and are grounded in day to day experience. Get yourself on YouTube and watch all the latest speeches it's an eye opener and you'll see for yourself what policies they are developing. Have a great day.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Scott (8th Dec 2025 - 08:00:50) Good morning one and all. What could have been a really interesting debate to find others views on the 'alternatives' seems to have become very narrow. Particularly Reform (as they keep writing the name on other posts, that may be quashed now eh) but other party backers too this is another call to put your thoughts on them forward and stand up for your beliefs. Very strange that you are all now shy! This is it, your opportunity, come on guys and gals, go for it!✌️

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Scott (8th Dec 2025 - 09:06:40) M thanks for your advice. Although I don't really need it. I'm reasonably well versed in Reforms ideas and policies, and on balance, they are not for me. Again, you seem to have missed my point, I'm not frustrated with others and there shouts for voting Reform, just that they keep writing it when possible without any context, which has no more value than writing vote 'Jelly', I'm asking what their views are on the same reports and details you are prompting me to look at.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - D (8th Dec 2025 - 10:20:37) I know everyone has been waiting with baited breath for my opinion so here it is. As for alternative parties, I have no idea. Look what promises the present government made to get elected only then to wave two fingers at their voters, I think a similar thing would happen with Reform. Oh yes, it all looks very optimistic and encouraging now, this shiny new party but at the moment we have absolutely nothing to choose from. At a time when we have three main parties (one albeit only in government as a coalition) we have sweet fa to choose from. Reform is the shining light at a time of economic doom and gloom with no light at the end of the tunnel, just as the Nazi party were in the 1930's. Be careful what you wish for. Goodnight, and may your god go with you.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Oldie (8th Dec 2025 - 10:39:53) My thoughts also D Scott banging on about new party or new people to run the country we just don’t have any and if he wants to go down the communist route ie CORBYN no thanks. As I have said many times history tells you everything.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Scott (8th Dec 2025 - 10:57:36) Aaah, D, I really am very pleased to hear your opinion on the topic. You have been very clear and succinct and for once, you and I have a virtually identical view on something. Who would have thunk it!? I'm sure our normal banter will return soon of which I very much look forward to. And you know I'll win😉😂 Always a pleasure and never a chore my old fruit.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Scott (8th Dec 2025 - 12:24:16) Oldie, bless you, You seem to have missed the point too.... I have full respect for your Tory position, but this is not for you to keep banging on , your terminology, as you say about Mrs T from nearly 50 years ago. If you cannot see I am hopefully trying to engage a wider conversation with other people who may not have the same views as you then maybe its you guys who are determined to impose your will on others and not really want them to have a say. It is up to them to come forward though. A silly remark about Corbyn holds no weight either with me I'm afraid.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Oldie (8th Dec 2025 - 15:04:58) Think it’s the other way round Scott you’re trying to manipulate the thread to your views . As for Corbyn he’s dangerous not a silly remark. Perhaps I hit a nerve with that . Again I don’t care who’s in charge as long as they govern for the country and make us prosperous so we can all live a reasonable life majority in work being able to live in reasonable comfort especially the pension’s. If you can find a party to do that I’m in .

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Scott (8th Dec 2025 - 16:43:59) Oldie, I have barely expressed my views let alone tried to manipulate my own thread🤣🤣 The questions posed have always been to the wider audience and not about me at all, at no point have I expressed Corbynesque views, you made that up for yourself...I'm just really interested to know what others think about the alternatives. I don't really see why that is such a be hostile towards me point. I'll make you a sportmans wager, I bet that the Conservatives and Labour will not get into power again for at least another two full terms, a view of mine you can have is hopefully neither of the two again. How do you like those onions? So that makes all of the alternatives relevant. What I would agree with you on is that the way forward is definitely a party that can put the UK and its population first, make some really good business decisions at home and abroad and help, with hard work I may add by all to make us a strong thriving society. At this point #voteforjelly I'm going to go with raspberry because thats my favourite, a strong decisive view I know👍 You can quote me on it if you like. #votejelly there it is again.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Paul2 (8th Dec 2025 - 17:09:18) @Scott - your turn now? What are your thoughts, reflections and observations across the main parties and alternatives?

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Scott (8th Dec 2025 - 17:37:19) Hi Paul2 Thank you for asking✌️ I may have answered your question as we were writing almost at the same time previously. For fear of being manipulative or told I'm trying to control the narrative I will sit on the fence🤦‍♂️🤣 I will say I have no political allegiance to any party, not a cop out, I just don't see the point in being a life long believer in something even when its going wrong. And the country is in a dire mess. I think all the parties have a few policies that make sense but so many more that don't stack up. They all across the board will say exactly what they want the core of the party to hear and are indeed manipulated by investors and back benchers and then ramp it up the closer we get to polling to say exactly what the momentum of the media grab onto and that then shapes public opinion....Headlines win votes. Watch the revolution #votejelly

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - D (8th Dec 2025 - 17:50:13) To quote yourself, Scott, read the room. The wider audience you're hoping for isn't interested.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Scott (8th Dec 2025 - 18:11:59) I agree again with you D.Thats twice in one day😂 Live long and prosper all. Peace out✌️

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - D (8th Dec 2025 - 20:22:32) We'll be getting married at this rate.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Aghast (8th Dec 2025 - 20:41:01) D and Scott what’s going on thought the Labour government was bad BUT . It’s going a bit off course.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - D (8th Dec 2025 - 21:15:51) Don't knock it, a nice, mutually respectful, light hearted exchange. Could do with more of it in the world. You're invited of course, Aghast.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Joe (8th Dec 2025 - 22:10:48) I believe that we all should be interested in our future in this country but political opinion is so polarised on this website the main popular opinions that I hear are the Tories need to go back to the reign of Mrs Thatcher ( not going to happen) Nigel Farage needs to run the country and Labour hasn't got a clue. Until an election is called though they are running the country so all the amount of hot air on here will not change anything. I think the country thought the Tories did not have a clue which is why Labour was voted in. Who should get in in future? I think unless a higher proportion of voters turn out on polling day things will not change much. Unless Nigel Farage divests himself of his criminal supporters he will not get my vote.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - M (9th Dec 2025 - 10:40:19) @Scott I don't like jelly never have. Blancmange, now that's another thing, just loved it haven't had it for years, just like a sensible government sticking to their manifesto haven't had this either. Labour didn't include ID cards in their manifesto along with raising NI etc, they have chosen to tax workers and pay the benefit claimers. As for illegal migrants using the legal aid system after committing crimes following their illegal entry, just nuts ! Appallingly poor use of the courts and tax payers money. #voteblancmange 🤣🤣🤨😏. And Reform 😀

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - D (9th Dec 2025 - 16:36:33) Can you still get blancmange? Sort of like a milk jelly, not had it since I were a kid. I seem to remember different flavours.

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Susie (10th Dec 2025 - 10:05:48) D Yes you can still get blancmange in many different flavours, chocolate, strawberry, butterscotch etc, from Ocado, Morrisons and other outlets. Its a childhood favourite just like Angel Delight, remember that. All the go toos at Christmas because they are a simple retro crowd pleaser on a Boxing Day buffet. Great in a food game too ha ha. # vote blancmange

Re: Alternatives to the 2 main protagonist parties. - Scott (10th Dec 2025 - 13:04:03) Hi all. I've been away doing my due dilligence and thoroughly investigating the alternatives. You may be surprised to hear after some deep reflection and contemplation I am now completely reformed and as of now a total convert to strawberry jelly. I once used to love it and thought I could never be swayed, but for a few years Raspberry jelly hoodwinked me and stole my dessert vote. But in the end I have to admit it is the Raspberry jelly that has deserted me and I have now returned to my first deep red wibbly wobbly passion for the strawberry version. As for the 'Topic' well its non existent now. I don't think it can be found anywhere. That confectionary has long since disappeared and is no longer lined up next to the double decker or Twix's. Thats very sad, an occasional Topic was a real treat on a murky day schlepping back down the A3 to picturesque Liphook after a days toil up town. I see blancmange is making a healthy, strong case for re-entry to the top 10 of softer desserts. Glad to hear it, the more diverse the array on offer all the better. Unless of course we are talking about the 1980's synth pop band(and we do love looking back don't we😊) in which case, I prefer Depeche Mode, but hey don't let me manipulate or control the narrative or your freedom of speech and choice, you scream and shout for whoever you like✌️ Thats all a completely different conversation but never the less probably a happy distraction from the original tedious thread, of which I blame myself for starting🤣🤣 such a naughty boy! Love and peace to all in Liphook in this season of goodwill and I hope we can all remain calm and respectful regardless of your political or gelatinous dessert desires✌️ #strawberryjelly (with some cream and fresh berries as an en accompagnement) #reformed #informed #blancmange #depechemode

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